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How far are you Hedd Type 20
Old 23rd January 2019
  #1
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1 Review written
🎧 15 years
How far are you Hedd Type 20

I am wondering for those who have Hedd type 20. How far apart are they for good stereo separation?
I was doing a mix 3 feet apart. Tweeters were on the outside. Anyway there was no bass in kick drum. In the studio it was fine. Room is treated a bit. Also using Sonarworks 4. Trying to find perfect placement. Using isoacustics 200 under speakers.
Old 24th January 2019
  #2
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by spektor ➡️
I am wondering for those who have Hedd type 20. How far apart are they for good stereo separation?
I was doing a mix 3 feet apart. Tweeters were on the outside. Anyway there was no bass in kick drum. In the studio it was fine. Room is treated a bit. Also using Sonarworks 4. Trying to find perfect placement. Using isoacustics 200 under speakers.
I get mine Friday. I’ll let you know. Did you try the linear phase plug in?
Old 24th January 2019
  #3
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1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Hope you love them. Yes I did its great. But I am using Sonarworks 4 with them and I really like it.
Old 28th January 2019
  #4
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
AMTs should be on the inside. i have inquired about that with HEDD when placing my Type 20s vertically. Mine are spaced at 3.5 feet between AMT centers. Plenty of stereo at this distance for me.
Old 29th January 2019
  #5
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I have them horizontal and I tried them on the inside. My room is weird and there was no bass. So I put them on the outside. Vertical might be different for me.
Old 29th January 2019 | Show parent
  #6
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by spektor ➡️
I have them horizontal and I tried them on the inside. My room is weird and there was no bass. So I put them on the outside. Vertical might be different for me.
besides room geometry and treatment, lf response depends much on the positoning of the speakers, the distance to the walls, the x-over setting and the spacing between lf woofers - regarding the latter: anything below half the wavelength of the x-over frequency (between low and mid or low and high for two-way speakers) is fine for coupling while a distance of half the wavelength leads to maximum cancellation...
and of course you better position your speakers with the rear almost touching the front wall!
Old 7th February 2019
  #7
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🎧 15 years
hello,

How do those Hedd type 20 compare against the Neumann KH310A??
Best translation is my goal.

Sergio
Old 8th February 2019
  #8
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javahut's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by spektor ➡️
Anyway there was no bass in kick drum. In the studio it was fine. Room is treated a bit.
Maybe because there was no bass in the kick drum. Or the miking wasn't optimal. When you listen to pre recorded music, do you hear kick and low end as you like? Or is it missing for that, too?
Old 8th February 2019
  #9
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1 Review written
🎧 15 years
It's fine. I think it was my mix. I heard other songs and it was clear as day.
Old 10th February 2019 | Show parent
  #10
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by spektor ➡️
It's fine. I think it was my mix. I heard other songs and it was clear as day.
Was gonna say. I have not felt in one instance that my Type 20s lacked bass or low end.
Old 26th June 2019
  #11
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by spektor ➡️
I am wondering for those who have Hedd type 20. How far apart are they for good stereo separation?
I was doing a mix 3 feet apart. Tweeters were on the outside. Anyway there was no bass in kick drum. In the studio it was fine. Room is treated a bit. Also using Sonarworks 4. Trying to find perfect placement. Using isoacustics 200 under speakers.
hi, i'm 3 weeks with the hedd type 20, coming from adam a8x

and after going crazy to find the right placement, and I'm still working, I can say:

if you hear too much or not in the room, the problem is the room.
just this, really.

you need serious treatment, not a little. you need traps for deep bass, as much as you can.

than, i find the listening position on 2 meters triangle very cool for these speakers, very open and more solid sound, and with spakers very near to the wall (but with bass traps behind and on corners) beacuse they are front ported, but the placement depends from the room, how much big, cube or rectangle (better)

cheers!
Old 6th October 2020
  #12
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ashmundo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Response from HEDD re: positioning

Hi Guys,

I email HEDD to ask about vertical orientation and tweeter location and got this response so thought I would share:

“Hi,

we do not recommend to place them vertically, but of course it works. You will have to live with a less optimal dispersion of the tweeter and a slightly worse spatial performance.

Regarding tweeter on the outside vs. inside:

There is no right or wrong. We found out that we liked the tweeter inside more than outside. If you have a small stereo triangle, tweeter outside might work better.

If you have bass modes, you also can play with both setups. One setup might help to reduce the trouble you have with room modes.

Hope this helps.

Stephan”

Super quick response from HEDD btw! :-)
Old 6th October 2020
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
Anyone using Hedd 20 in a very small room? how do they behave? I'm looking to upgrade from my mackie HR824 in a 3.7 x 2.4 x 2.3 room. I'll be treating it extensively.
Old 6th October 2020
  #14
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Make an equilateral triangle with speakers at two corners and your head at the other. The farther back you get from the speakers, the farther apart they need to be for proper imaging. The closer you get to them, the closer they need to be for proper imaging.

The wall behind the speaker (and to the side of the speaker if they are close to the side walls) creates a resonant peak at low frequencies; you want that peak to be at about the frequency where the low end of the speaker drops off. If you move the speakers closer to the wall and farther from the wall, you can hear the low end change. Pick the distance that gives you flat low end... not tubby and not missing.

In a small square room you're going to have low end problems, but if you've worked in that room with the Mackies you know what the problems are and you probably know how to work around them. There's only so much bass trapping that is physically possible. Do what you can.
--scott
Old 6th October 2020 | Show parent
  #15
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4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by orbita ➡️
Anyone using Hedd 20 in a very small room? how do they behave? I'm looking to upgrade from my mackie HR824 in a 3.7 x 2.4 x 2.3 room. I'll be treating it extensively.
I was very impressed by the Hedd..
and I’m not a ribbon fanboy..
I do work on atc’s.. the hedd are really great at their price point.

I’d go for them if you can’t afford atc’s. (The scm25’s are double the hedd price.. and while I like them a lot, I’m not sure they’re worth the double..we’re already in the diminished return territory).
In your case I’d invest in acoustic treatment and get the hedd.

PMC Result6 too, but they’re a 2way, and a different approach.. great monitors too when the budget is tight.

Measure and treat the room the best you can, they’ll do well.



Cheu
Old 6th October 2020 | Show parent
  #16
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ashmundo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by orbita ➡️
Anyone using Hedd 20 in a very small room? how do they behave? I'm looking to upgrade from my mackie HR824 in a 3.7 x 2.4 x 2.3 room. I'll be treating it extensively.
Hi Orbita,

For what it's worth I'm using them in a room not a massive amount bigger than yours. Room Plan attached with dimensions as well as a shot of the set up with treatment.

RE their behaviour: the most important characteristic for your room IMO is their small LF driver. It produces a good amount of bass (along with the port for sub 45/50Hz) but its very tight and remains consistent at lower levels. Which means that you can hear bass in your room properly without pushing the room modes more with more level as you'd have to with larger diaphragm designs (Like your 824s).

As you'll know your main issue is going to be working out the low end. However, if you have a cloud(s) above your mix position and HEDDs and some reflection point absorption on the walls then these will give you the deep clarity into the mids and highs that they can deliver.

At first I was using them with basic foam corner traps and wall squares and no clouds and it was obviously less than ideal. I've since invested as much as I paid for the Type 20s in a custom acoustic treatment set up from Blue Frog Audio (2.4m tall, 40cmx40cm trap towers in the corners, 3 x 180cmx60cm clouds, heavy duty panels on side walls, behind the speakers and diffuser covered ones at the rear) and now they are singing in the room.

Still not 'flat' as this is is impossible in any room especially one's the kind of sizes as ours (as has been mentioned). But I am using sonarworks to even out whats left (mainly low end) and I've got to know the sound of the room now. As a result my mix translation is improving all the time.

My advice, try out the HEDDs, get as much rockwool in the room as you can (if you haven't already) (DIY if you want to save some dough), make sure you get have decent sized clouds up (enough coverage and depth) and spend A LOT of time learning the HEDDs themselves and how the room's responding, while constantly checking mix translation elsewhere. Oh and get Sonarworks Studio if you can. (measure with HEDD Liniarizer engaged on your system output using something like SoundSource on a lower latency setting when measuring if you do. I leave the HEDD plugin and Sonarworks engaged in Soundsource permanently so I'm not constantly recalibrating my ears).

IMO if you do the above with the HEDDs they will deliver for you in your room exceptionally. As has been said ATCs will trump them but for double money. I believe HEDD are creating products that wipe out competition at the price points based on my experience with the Type 20s and what I've heard about their other trinkets including the HEDDphones (on my wish list!)

Note: the HEDDs do have a low end attenuation on the rear. You may find this helpful in your room. I experimented with it but for my set up it's working better for me flat.

In summary, I actually think that they will behave a lot better in a small room than your current HR824s even if your treatment atm isn't ideal, would for sure give you a new world of clarity and depth over the Mackies and you should take em for a ride

Good luck and do let us know if you decide to try them out!
Attached Thumbnails
How far are you Hedd Type 20-studio-front.png   How far are you Hedd Type 20-studio-dimensions.jpg  
Old 7th October 2020 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashmundo ➡️
Hi Orbita,

For what it's worth I'm using them in a room not a massive amount bigger than yours. Room Plan attached with dimensions as well as a shot of the set up with treatment.

RE their behaviour: the most important characteristic for your room IMO is their small LF driver. It produces a good amount of bass (along with the port for sub 45/50Hz) but its very tight and remains consistent at lower levels. Which means that you can hear bass in your room properly without pushing the room modes more with more level as you'd have to with larger diaphragm designs (Like your 824s).

As you'll know your main issue is going to be working out the low end. However, if you have a cloud(s) above your mix position and HEDDs and some reflection point absorption on the walls then these will give you the deep clarity into the mids and highs that they can deliver.

At first I was using them with basic foam corner traps and wall squares and no clouds and it was obviously less than ideal. I've since invested as much as I paid for the Type 20s in a custom acoustic treatment set up from Blue Frog Audio (2.4m tall, 40cmx40cm trap towers in the corners, 3 x 180cmx60cm clouds, heavy duty panels on side walls, behind the speakers and diffuser covered ones at the rear) and now they are singing in the room.

Still not 'flat' as this is is impossible in any room especially one's the kind of sizes as ours (as has been mentioned). But I am using sonarworks to even out whats left (mainly low end) and I've got to know the sound of the room now. As a result my mix translation is improving all the time.

My advice, try out the HEDDs, get as much rockwool in the room as you can (if you haven't already) (DIY if you want to save some dough), make sure you get have decent sized clouds up (enough coverage and depth) and spend A LOT of time learning the HEDDs themselves and how the room's responding, while constantly checking mix translation elsewhere. Oh and get Sonarworks Studio if you can. (measure with HEDD Liniarizer engaged on your system output using something like SoundSource on a lower latency setting when measuring if you do. I leave the HEDD plugin and Sonarworks engaged in Soundsource permanently so I'm not constantly recalibrating my ears).

IMO if you do the above with the HEDDs they will deliver for you in your room exceptionally. As has been said ATCs will trump them but for double money. I believe HEDD are creating products that wipe out competition at the price points based on my experience with the Type 20s and what I've heard about their other trinkets including the HEDDphones (on my wish list!)

Note: the HEDDs do have a low end attenuation on the rear. You may find this helpful in your room. I experimented with it but for my set up it's working better for me flat.

In summary, I actually think that they will behave a lot better in a small room than your current HR824s even if your treatment atm isn't ideal, would for sure give you a new world of clarity and depth over the Mackies and you should take em for a ride

Good luck and do let us know if you decide to try them out!

Interesting, thanks for sharing. Clouds may be a little tricky due to ceiling height but i'll see if something can fit. I was thinking ceiling-wall corners.

It seems like you've got a nice sounding room but aesthetically I think my room wins :-D
Attached Thumbnails
How far are you Hedd Type 20-img_3315.jpg  
Old 7th October 2020 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 ➡️
I was very impressed by the Hedd..
and I’m not a ribbon fanboy..
I do work on atc’s.. the hedd are really great at their price point.

I’d go for them if you can’t afford atc’s. (The scm25’s are double the hedd price.. and while I like them a lot, I’m not sure they’re worth the double..we’re already in the diminished return territory).
In your case I’d invest in acoustic treatment and get the hedd.

PMC Result6 too, but they’re a 2way, and a different approach.. great monitors too when the budget is tight.

Measure and treat the room the best you can, they’ll do well.



Cheu
Thanks - yeah these are pushing the boat out enough for me - I was really thinking about some APS Klasik or eve sc305s initially - and still might have to depending on how much I have to spend on soundproofing and acoustics.
Old 7th October 2020 | Show parent
  #19
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cheu78's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by orbita ➡️
Thanks - yeah these are pushing the boat out enough for me - I was really thinking about some APS Klasik or eve sc305s initially - and still might have to depending on how much I have to spend on soundproofing and acoustics.
The acoustic treatment will change your room, so measure the room (get help by someone who knows what is doing).. and treat the room..

The Hedd are great loudspeakers indeed..
do whatever you can to get the typ20.. buy once but good.

If you really have to go with less expensive speakers I’d go with the PMC Result6, really a good monitor, with a great extension and clarity through the range.

I’d not suggest the eve’s against these two (never heard the new klasik, so can’t comment).. but the pmc’s are impressive at their price (which got lowered recently I believe).
But if you could, get the typ20.



Cheu
Old 7th October 2020 | Show parent
  #20
Gear Addict
 
ashmundo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by orbita ➡️
Interesting, thanks for sharing. Clouds may be a little tricky due to ceiling height but i'll see if something can fit. I was thinking ceiling-wall corners.

It seems like you've got a nice sounding room but aesthetically I think my room wins :-D
Hey man,

If it were me I'd try and get rid of them shelves to open up the space acoustically and (if that doors not in use?) get rid of one of those tables, put the other one front and centre. Then you'd have some more open space and while air gaps behind panels are ideal in that space I would just put some panels flush on the angled ceiling at the front, the ceiling above and the sides, plus some meaty traps in the corners.

Agree 100% with cheu78 on buying once what you want. Perhaps a case of budgeting for the acoustics first then buy the HEDDs when you can later on.
Old 7th October 2020 | Show parent
  #21
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kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashmundo ➡️
Agree 100% with cheu78 on buying once what you want. Perhaps a case of budgeting for the acoustics first then buy the HEDDs when you can later on.
Money spent on cleaning up acoustical problems is almost always a better investment than money spent on speakers.
--scott
Old 7th October 2020 | Show parent
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by kludgeaudio ➡️
Money spent on fixing acoustics is almost always a better investment than money spent on speakers.
--scott
So good he said thrice!

Totally agree though.
Old 7th October 2020 | Show parent
  #23
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashmundo ➡️
Hey man,

If it were me I'd try and get rid of them shelves to open up the space acoustically and (if that doors not in use?) get rid of one of those tables, put the other one front and centre. Then you'd have some more open space and while air gaps behind panels are ideal in that space I would just put some panels flush on the angled ceiling at the front, the ceiling above and the sides, plus some meaty traps in the corners.

Agree 100% with cheu78 on buying once what you want. Perhaps a case of budgeting for the acoustics first then buy the HEDDs when you can later on.

Yeah, planning on doing room unless a deal comes up on speakers.

I'm not sure exactly what layout i'll use but was planning on getting rid of the tables and putting gear on shelves on the walls and then just having either a small desk on wheels or a monitor on an arm coming of the front wall/door. Behind the door is the boiler and storage space so used now and then. I can't block it completely off.

The high shelves could go - I thought it would be useful to keep for storage of cables and other stuff. I wondered if random boxes on shelves would help or worsened the acoustics. Also wondered if it would be good to get perforated shelves for the equipment.

I've posted some thoughts on treating my room here with some questions here. Appreciate if you have any time to take a look.

Layout, treatment and speaker choice for my loft room?

Thanks!
Old 7th October 2020 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Addict
 
ashmundo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by orbita ➡️
Yeah, planning on doing room unless a deal comes up on speakers.

I'm not sure exactly what layout i'll use but was planning on getting rid of the tables and putting gear on shelves on the walls and then just having either a small desk on wheels or a monitor on an arm coming of the front wall/door. Behind the door is the boiler and storage space so used now and then. I can't block it completely off.

The high shelves could go - I thought it would be useful to keep for storage of cables and other stuff. I wondered if random boxes on shelves would help or worsened the acoustics. Also wondered if it would be good to get perforated shelves for the equipment.

I've posted some thoughts on treating my room here with some questions here. Appreciate if you have any time to take a look.

Layout, treatment and speaker choice for my loft room?

Thanks!
You're going in hard with the planning nice one!!

Looking at the Sonarworks curves. That big dip at 180/190Hz: is that the left side with the shelves? It would be interesting to remeasure without them there to see if it helps.

I wouldn't want to advise you too much personally as I'm far from a specialist in acoustics. Are you planning on building them yourself? The reasons I chose to spend a bit more and go with a pro firm for mine were:

a) Consultation and Design from someone who ONLY deals with this stuff everyday for their clients rather than my design based on my comparatively basic knowledge.

b) My time! (I would spend a months worth of solid days (bare minimum) on researching, building and installing them as I'm obsessive and very dodgy at carpentry!)

c) The finish and effectiveness of the units I'm going to have see and 'hear' at every day for a long time.

You could always ask a professional acoustician for consultation/design/quote (some charge for this, others see it as a loss leader in time) and see if the quote works for you. And that way, even if you decide to do it yourself, you would at least have a solid design to work to. A moderate fee for a professionals bespoke design for your space would be cheaper than doing it wrong then doing it again right.

Other option is invest in quality off the shelf items a few at a time (starting with bass traps IMO) and experiment with positions until you hear an improvement and work in stages tackling one issue at a time.

Whatever approach you decide on I'm sure you'll greatly improve the space based on the effort you're putting into the planning!!
Old 11th October 2020 | Show parent
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashmundo ➡️
You're going in hard with the planning nice one!!

Looking at the Sonarworks curves. That big dip at 180/190Hz: is that the left side with the shelves? It would be interesting to remeasure without them there to see if it helps.

I wouldn't want to advise you too much personally as I'm far from a specialist in acoustics. Are you planning on building them yourself? The reasons I chose to spend a bit more and go with a pro firm for mine were:

a) Consultation and Design from someone who ONLY deals with this stuff everyday for their clients rather than my design based on my comparatively basic knowledge.

b) My time! (I would spend a months worth of solid days (bare minimum) on researching, building and installing them as I'm obsessive and very dodgy at carpentry!)

c) The finish and effectiveness of the units I'm going to have see and 'hear' at every day for a long time.

You could always ask a professional acoustician for consultation/design/quote (some charge for this, others see it as a loss leader in time) and see if the quote works for you. And that way, even if you decide to do it yourself, you would at least have a solid design to work to. A moderate fee for a professionals bespoke design for your space would be cheaper than doing it wrong then doing it again right.

Other option is invest in quality off the shelf items a few at a time (starting with bass traps IMO) and experiment with positions until you hear an improvement and work in stages tackling one issue at a time.

Whatever approach you decide on I'm sure you'll greatly improve the space based on the effort you're putting into the planning!!
Thanks - I've got a couple of soundproofing people coming this week. And I've contacted Gik for some advice. I won't be making them myself, not worth the time.

Which firm did you use to consult?
Old 11th October 2020 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Addict
 
ashmundo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by orbita ➡️
Thanks - I've got a couple of soundproofing people coming this week. And I've contacted Gik for some advice. I won't be making them myself, not worth the time.

Which firm did you use to consult?
http://www.bluefrogaudio.co.uk/

A fella called Joe's firm in Wales.

Not sure where you're based and if that's any good for you but for what it's worth they service and panels are top notch
Old 12th October 2020 | Show parent
  #27
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashmundo ➡️
http://www.bluefrogaudio.co.uk/

A fella called Joe's firm in Wales.

Not sure where you're based and if that's any good for you but for what it's worth they service and panels are top notch
Ta. I’m in London but might be worth a call
Old 12th October 2020
  #28
Would be interesting to see what they come up with and some before and after pics.. Maybe for another thread though.
Old 12th October 2020 | Show parent
  #29
Gear Addict
 
ashmundo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by orbita ➡️
Ta. I’m in London but might be worth a call
Yeah I highly recommend Joe. He did the plans and CAD drawings without a fee or commitment from me and we spoke many times on the phone to tweak the plans before I pulled the trigger on it.
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