Type 20 or 30 vs ATC SCM25A? What would you choose and why?

Quick note on hedd support: I mailed them again about the issue i was having and they sent me a new set of LF drivers. bear in mind i bought my 20s second hand and out of warranty. Haven't had a chance to swap them over yet and see if it makes a difference but gotta say that's pretty hot (non)customer service. thanks hedd

At that point is really a matter of room integration and personal taste.

The Hedd have the amt tweeter type of presentation (although the tweeter is very well integrated, imho better than in other designs), the ATC have a very nice revealing (amazing) midrange and great translation.

I’m on ATC since a long time, I like them, and I can judge/take decision fast on them..

I’d suggest that if you’re ready to spend between 6 or 8k on a pair of monitors, talk to your dealer and let them ship the Type30 and the SCM25 at your place and THEN decide with YOUR room, YOUR ears and taste.

Both are great monitors.
Form your own opinion.

I’d not base my decision on info found on the web (sure you can and should research and try to get an “overall” picture), but when you’re at this level, I’d make sure to listen to them in your room.

I hope this helps,



Cheu

But the barefoots are like almost double the Price of the type 20.
I went to the store to listen to speakers yesterday,
But They Didnt have many High end monitors there.
However, i got to listen to the Adam a7x, and They were sooo super harsh in the highs and midrange.
Is the heads anything like that? Almost couldnt listen to the sound. I know They kind of have a different tweeter, But i get afraid of buying the hedd since i Will mostly produce and track and listen to music on them and do less mastering,
For that purpose, is it still worth Going with hedds??

I’m sure you could find some of my posts where I say that the HEDD are nothing like the adams (imho).
Hedd’s owner is the ex designer (and ceo?) of adam, but the hedd are very different.. the HEDD is a better product imho.

Here I’m referring to the MK1, since I never heard the new MK2 (although I believe that they will be somewhat similar from a presentation point of view).

as I said in several posts that amt tweeter is very well integrated and while it has a type of presentation that is different from a soft dome or a metal tweeter, it’s not harsh sounding at all.
Some people even say that the top end is “subdued”, when they compare to other loudspeakers they have.. go figure..
I don’t agree with that, BUT I believe their other speakers might be more aggressive, therefore the hedd appearing “smoother” or even subdued in comparison.

I do think that they sound very open, very detailed, not harsh (unless the material you’re feeding them is harsh), effortless..

and I’m not a big fan of amt (or ribbon) tweeter in general (despite very few selected cases)..but the hedd are very good.
I’m on ATC scm25 (and others bigger atc’s) since about 10yrs.

But as said, try to listen to them in your space if you could.



Cheu

Like @ cheu78 said, to me they are night and day.

I had the Adam S3X-H's and swapped them for the Type20, found I didn't need the 30's. I put the Adams up for sale after only a week of using the Type20's. Never looked back and remain extremely happy.

hi, i'm using type 20 for mastering, i'm pretty happy

mainly for curiosity, but also thinking about an upgrade eventually...
where and how much better the are the type 30?
did someone tested t20 vs t30 and can share the impressions?

Is there a sonic difference between t20 and type 20?

???

Haha I thought they changed the name to t20 for the mk2. Is there a sonic difference between the mk1 and mk2 from experience

probably, they change the crossover freq on mid-highs and cabinet... i would like to know something more too

The tracks I made on those translated very well. I might want to demo again

i read on site's faq that the differences are minus

i'm still very curious between type 20 and type 30

and i'm thinking to add 2 subs also but i can understand why they dont support old models with new subs in the lineariser plugin

By minus you mean you heard they are not as good as the mk1? Or minute

I dig my HEDD 20 type II plus the 08 sub. I think they're very honest and translates well.

I believe he meant “minor” (minor differences, soundwise)..

I never heard the mk2, but it looks like they’re made from the same cloth (and at least on paper they improved a couple of things with the waveguide for the tweeter and the xover)..

@ henryrobinett Nice to hear you’re happy with them!



Cheu

Thank you Cheu for the suggestion!

I have a fairly small room and over the years have tried to come up with various solutions other than expanding the room, which is impossible and impractical. But it's well treated, if not scientifically so. But the question has always been translation. I have NHTPro S-00 and M-00, which I love but didn't always translate, especially in the bass department. Probably mainly had to do with setting up the sub properly. I also have a pair of Auratones, Sennheiser HD 650 and the Audez LCD-X.

Now with the HEDD's, which sound not unlike the NHTPros, but they translate very well. I feel like I can relax. I go in between all systems when I'm unsettled but I always return to the HEDD. All the frequencies are well balanced. At first I wasn't happy with what I described as subdued highs, but I think they're just more accurate than what I was used to. The NHTs were a little hyped.

I don't think the HEDD hit you over the head, no pun intended. But that's not what I'm after. I want to have to work to get the speakers to sound great. I had this problem with the older Genelec 1031 (?). Everything sounded great on them, consequently almost everything I took out of the studio sounded like crap on other systems.

oh nope, "i read" this, on site

great informative thread.
I’m in the market for new monitors, currently on Genelecs 1031A
I mix a lot of acoustic jazz and experimental music, bass region mostly occupied by upright bass and smaller no-dampened bass drums. Acoustic piano… horns…

What would work best for mixing this kind of music, looking at (budget up to 8grand max)
HEDD type 20
Atc scm25
Genelecs ones
Barefoot mm45s

I can’t speak to the others but it sounds like we do the same type of music. The Hedd 20 type II work very well for me.

Same

Cool thanks ! Now I have to find somewhere to hear the HEDDs in NYC

I love my Gennies 8351 !!! The Ones !!!

A better question would be what makes you work best mixing this kind of music? And your best shot at answering that is to work with these speakers by yourself in your own room, not by taking a survey on the internet.

The Type 30, at least in its Mk1 form, is an excellent choice for unamplified music because it is so natural and unprocessed-sounding. I get very little sense of electronics between me and the music; it really does sound acoustic. And its focus and resolution are excellent: it does a good job of sorting out just how recordings are put together, at differentiating between various recording spaces and venues.

But if you want to take the Type 30 to another level entirely, the Trinnov ST2 enhances all its great qualities and minimizes its weaknesses. The warm balance, subdued lower highs, and far-too-generous bass region simply vanish, leaving a magically transparent soundfield that is ridiculously easy to decipher and analyze. It's like exchanging an out-of-focus set of lens for a freshly-prescribed pair. Look, I realize I'm starting to sound like a Trinnov shill but the product inspires me to the point that I just have to shout its virtues from the treetops. Sorry if it's getting repetitive.

I do agree with bcent15 above, you need to test them yourself, in your place it’s of course the ideal solution, but at least listening to them somewhere is definitely better than go blind with suggestions from the net..
with that said I do have a new list for you that includes 2 pieces you already have in your list:

- Hedd Type 30 (20 if you don’t have space)
- ATC scm25 (or maybe a used pair of scm45 or even better scm50 or scm100 if their size fit, sometimes they pop up in the used market)
- new PMC 6-2
- Geithain 933k (if you’re lucky you can find used or demo prices of their nice coaxial 3way models)
- KS Digital A300

All these will perform really great and it’s a matter of personal preference and room integration.

The new pmc6-2 are impressive with their linearity and phantom image, the Hedd are also great and very open sounding, the atc is a fantastic tool (also) for acoustic music, it let you know what’s “inside” and it tells you what you have to do with that mix.



Cheu

I just bought a pair of Hedd Type 20s after owning the Eve SC208s. I live in a ~750 sq ft. open concept condo and found the Eves with a 12” Martin Logan subwoofer manageable at my listening location. I tried the Type 20s and MY GOD… these things are choking me with low-end. The -4dB shelf on the low-end is beyond insufficient. I tried a few listening positions and frankly, none of them were sufficient. I will do some room EQ but I’m guessing this is a mess and I’m going to need to shift down the low-end in some spots by ~10-20db or more. I think I might have went overboard here. Even the low end of the Genelec 8250s was manageable but this is ridiculous. At normal 65dB volumes, the walls are rattling. I feel like these are built for 1000 sq. ft or larger spaces. Running it closed or with the 80Hz cutoff didn’t help. So I’m confused. Any ideas?

That's very strange! I have these monitors and have used them in other studios. The low end is accurate, tight and controlled. Better than my old Adam S3X-H monitors. Can't say what's going on in your situ. Any photos of your room?

You're right: my Type 30s have massive bass. Even in free space in a largish room they are typically 6-8dB up in the 50-150 Hz region. The Trinnov measurements are below along with the Trinnov-corrected curve. Used with Trinnov the Hedd's are remarkably linear and transparent.

I actually just had my other sub (I have a dual sub setup) and didn't turn it off and didn't level match the sub to the HEDDs. So the problem is I'm a moron.