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Buss Compressor for Pop/R&B ala Rihanna/Bruno Mars
Old 19th July 2018
  #1
Here for the gear
Buss Compressor for Pop/R&B ala Rihanna/Bruno Mars

I’m setting up a studio to produce Pop/R&B Music. I’ll only be recording 1 vocalist at a time, guitar & bass (direct in) and perhaps vintage keyboards occasionally. No live drums or other live instruments requiring mics.

I’ve recently purchased a lot of gear directly based upon Gearslutz User opinions, (but haven’t actually heard or turned anything on yet) LOL.
What I have so far:
Neumann U87ai Mic
Mojave MA-300 Mic
Great River MP-500NV Preamp in 500 Series Rack (with 4 empty slots)
Warm Audio WA273-EQ
Universal Audio 1176LN
Klark Teknik KT-2A (Pre-Ordered)
Klark Teknik EQP-KT EQ
---
Focusrite Clarett 8PRE Thunderbolt
Universal Audio (3) OCTO Satellites w/almost all UAD-2 Plug-Ins
Komplete 11 Ultimate, Omnisphere II, Trilian, Akai MPC Live
Apple iMac Pro
---
As I’ve continued researching I’m realizing I probably also need at least one “2 Bus” Compressor and perhaps a mastering processor, perhaps a summing mixer ...

Question #1 : What would be the best “2 Buss” Compressor for music similar to Rihanna/Bruno Mars on a budget of around $3,000.

I’ve read great opinions of the API 2500, but also others who say they would never use it on the “2 Buss”.

The models I have been researching are:
API 2500
Dangerous Music Compressor
Dramastic Obsidian
Focusrite Red 3 Compressor
Smart Research C2
SSL G Comp Stereo Bus Compressor (500 Series)

Question #2 : I have a total remaining budget of $8,000. How could that best be spent regarding analog gear ... Summing Mixer, Neve Portico II MBP, Dangerous BAX EQ etc ... or other mic pre’s, tracking gear.

Thanks
Old 19th July 2018
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Foote Control Systems P4s Plus if you can find one. I believe Roger discontinued them and is introducing some new and inproved gadgets but that thing would slay in your application.
Old 19th July 2018
  #3
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
You bought all the wrong gear for Hip-Hop haha What you really needed was an Avalon channel strip, a high-end La2a clone like the Manley ELOP or ADL1000, and the U87 (which is the one thing you did get correct). I know for a fact that Bruno Mars has used custom racked vintage modules from Ward Beck or RCA console channel strips, because his producer bought them from a friend of mine, Tom Gruning at Gruning Audio Works, who recently expanded his business (and don't say I told you but I'm trying to set him up with a rather large distributor so you may be hearing some more about him in the not so distant future). You should give him a call, and do mention that Jon Michael sent you.
Old 19th July 2018
  #4
Here for the gear
Thanks for the info.

I originally purchased an Avalon VT-737SP, but sold it LOL after delving further into Gearslutz comments that said how weak the compressor is.

The Great River MP-500NV has had great reviews and I figured going from that into a Universal Audio 1176LN then the Klark Teknik KT-2A would produce better results and once inside Logic Pro I have virtually all of the UAD Plug Ins to modify the sound ...

The Klark Teknik KT-2A is still a "pre-order" so I could cancel that and get an alternate like the ELOP or ELOP+. Looking up the prices, the ELOP's are surprisingly affordable by Manley's standards.

I also just discovered Audio Scape which has their version of an LA-2A and I'm considering that model which may turn out to be the best of the LA-2A Clones.

I went to Foote Control Systems website. They currently have the P4S SE & P4S ME listed now.
Old 19th July 2018
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
The Audio-Scape Opto Comp would definitely be a huge step in the right direction.
Old 19th July 2018 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert13 ➡️
Thanks for the info.

I originally purchased an Avalon VT-737SP, but sold it LOL after delving further into Gearslutz comments that said how weak the compressor is.

The Great River MP-500NV has had great reviews and I figured going from that into a Universal Audio 1176LN then the Klark Teknik KT-2A would produce better results and once inside Logic Pro I have virtually all of the UAD Plug Ins to modify the sound ...

The Klark Teknik KT-2A is still a "pre-order" so I could cancel that and get an alternate like the ELOP or ELOP+. Looking up the prices, the ELOP's are surprisingly affordable by Manley's standards.

I also just discovered Audio Scape which has their version of an LA-2A and I'm considering that model which may turn out to be the best of the LA-2A Clones.

I went to Foote Control Systems website. They currently have the P4S SE & P4S ME listed now.
I wasn't talking about the Avalon strip with the compressor, they make one with an EQ and a peak limiter. That's why I said to get an La2a. I don't recommend the 1176 for hip-hop vocals unless it's melodic singing with held out notes, like a few female backup singers. I would also recommend a stereo brickwall limiter of some kind, to make things loud, either on the master buss, or rhythm section buss.
Old 19th July 2018
  #7
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I wouldn’t buy anything else (except perhaps monitors?) before I got to grips with all of that.

You don’t “need” a buss compressor or a summing mixer. You may “want” one down the line. Buying and selling gear purely on other people’s opinions is insane - especially when one person’s manure is another’s special sauce.

You need to develop your own experience and workflow before you wax more money on more gear!

I do pretty much all of my mixing ITB with one UAD box (recently updated to Octo) and other plugs. If you can’t do it with that...more practice is needed! THEN think about what would make you happy.

But please - no more gear based on recommendations until you’ve got to grips with what you have. For your own sake - the paralysis will be real!
Old 19th July 2018
  #8
Lives for gear
 
phantomcenter's Avatar
Heres a quote from Boo Mitchell about the recording of BMs vox on”Uptown Funk”:

Mitchell recalls Mars recording his vocals in a control room at Royal on a Shure SM57, a microphone that Mitchell says costs around $100.

“We tried him in the vocal booth on the really nice mike, but he was like, ‘I want to get the vibe of all the guys around me – can we do it in the control room?’” Mitchell recalls. “Which just goes to show – you can get some great stuff from inexpensive equipment.”

Legendary Memphis Studio Has No. 1 Hit With ‘Uptown Funk’ - Memphis Daily News
Old 19th July 2018
  #9
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
As did Bono on many of the U2 albums, as I understand it.
You find the correct tool for the job and the situation. That's why engineering is not a cut and dried profession. Experience is crucial. And, fortunately, rentable.

My suggestion, for what it's worth, is to not spend one red cent on more gear until your room is set up, treated (crucial) and "de-bugged". At that point, rent some expertise by having experienced engineers come in to do short test sessions. The material doesn't matter. The more diverse, the better. The product isn't the mixed result - it's you. Watch what they do and how they do it and steal what works. With 3 good engineers, you'll likely see 3 entirely different paths to the end result, using combinations of your tools in ways you hadn't imagined.
Aside from monitors, you have almost everything you need. Learn your tools and fill in any gaping holes that might pop up on your tutorial sessions. Then forget about the gear and figure out how to make music sound better.

As always, YMMV.
Old 19th July 2018
  #10
Here for the gear
I cancelled my Klark Teknik KT-2A "Pre-Order" and have decided to buy both the Audio Scape (SSL style) Buss Compressor (at just $649 with great reviews I don't think I can go wrong) and also the Audio Scape Opto (LA-2A style) Compressor.

I've got the room treatment, monitors and other basic essentials already taken care.

I'm probably going to send the Warm Audio WA273-EQ to Revive Audio for their $500 mod on that unit.

I actually have a lot of confidence in buying gear based upon other people's opinions. I read everything available (and I mean EVERYTHING) on a particular item from all possible web sources as well as talking to professionals in the field.

When I started this a few months back I never imagined all of the different choices and all of the reading. I've put together folders on perhaps 250 different manufacturers covering recording, monitors, acoustic treatments, furniture, high end audiophile headphones & amps etc ... it's never ending. Glad for the suggestions.

I'm also considering getting a Manley Nu Mu to use along with the Audio Scape Buss Compressor.
Old 19th July 2018
  #11
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
You haven't mentioned your personal level of experience as an engineer. Perhaps a little insight into that might be helpful in providing assistance.
Old 19th July 2018
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 
🎧 20 years
Listen to psycho .... are you able to articulate why from s sonic perspective you “Need” this stuff.

I’ve not plugged in any of my racks of outboard in a year or so pretty much and I’ve got all the shizzle the kids gag for.. pultecs, neves, massive passive, Avalon , gml eq 6x 1176 etc it goes for days. And you know what ... I now know my modest selection of plugs infinitely better now and am really starting to like using them and some of the sounds I’m getting with them.. will they replace my racks no.. but I’m glad I’ve gone through this process ( due to house move and gear being kept in racks) and want to now integrate both sides of the coin in what I do when I set it up very soon.

Learn the tools you have. Use the GR preamp and U87 and 1 compressor.. Fark around with it on Everything. Understand it and how it sounds in diff things.. then when you feel you’ve got it covered sesrch for the next bit in the sonic puzzle

Don’t send a warm Neve to be modded.. but the one WHEN you need it that has the sound out of the box. Sending that one modded is cash you’ll never see again! Not dissing revive, as I’ve thought about them doing some mods to some of my name stuff but a warm clone mod is money better spent elsewhere !

Let us know how you go
Wiggy
Old 20th July 2018
  #13
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
A tube tech CL1B compressor is a staple on Rihanna recordings along with many others in the same lane, I would recommend this over anything mentioned here yet, esp a 1176. I'd save that for rock!
Old 20th July 2018 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert13 ➡️
I cancelled my Klark Teknik KT-2A "Pre-Order" and have decided to buy both the Audio Scape (SSL style) Buss Compressor (at just $649 with great reviews I don't think I can go wrong) and also the Audio Scape Opto (LA-2A style) Compressor.

I've got the room treatment, monitors and other basic essentials already taken care.

I'm probably going to send the Warm Audio WA273-EQ to Revive Audio for their $500 mod on that unit.

I actually have a lot of confidence in buying gear based upon other people's opinions. I read everything available (and I mean EVERYTHING) on a particular item from all possible web sources as well as talking to professionals in the field.

When I started this a few months back I never imagined all of the different choices and all of the reading. I've put together folders on perhaps 250 different manufacturers covering recording, monitors, acoustic treatments, furniture, high end audiophile headphones & amps etc ... it's never ending. Glad for the suggestions.

I'm also considering getting a Manley Nu Mu to use along with the Audio Scape Buss Compressor.
How long have you been at this. What have you done so far and how is your room treated?
Old 20th July 2018
  #15
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
This is a very odd thread and OP. Just joined GS, populated but very inconsistent gear list, no recording yet, no mention of room or monitors, jumps from gear to gear....
I probably have some sort of trollanoia, but...
Old 20th July 2018
  #16
Here for the gear
Correct, I did just join GS so I could post this message, but I've been reading threads 12 hours/day non-stop for like 3-4 months. I'm not a Troll.

I was a songwriter 30 years ago. Gave up music completely like 25 years ago. For various reasons about 5 months ago I said I'm going to get back into it.

I had a Neumann U87 back in the 80's so I started my purchases there. Next I picked up an Avalon VT-737SP for a great deal (before having read anything on Gearslutz).

In the 80's I had more equipment than most, but still it was not possible to get even close to a "Record Quality" sound.

As I researched current methods of recording I was blown away by how you can get a "Record Quality" sound ITB at home! I didn't know that was possible in January.

Subsequently I purchased an iMac Pro, Focusrite Clarett 8PRE Thunderbolt Interface and (3) Universal Audio OCTO Satellites along with about 65 of their best Plug-Ins - virtually all of the good ones.

Yes - I'm basically over-compensating and making up for a lifetime of never personally having enough equipment to make a record.

I'm in Los Angeles, so it's probably easier to get great deals on used gear here than elsewhere.

It's true, I haven't turned anything on yet - so much to learn. Cubase 9.5, Logic Pro, Autotune Pro, Komplete 11 Ultimate and many other software programs.

I purchased the Klark Teknik 1176-KT and Warm Audio WA273-EQ, but then I go to Revive Audio's website and they talk about their mods and I start to think, if Revive needs to change so many components to bring the sound closer to the real thing, perhaps I should rethink my purchases.

Subsequently I found a great deal on a Universal Audio 1176LN ($1,200) and purchased it so I'm going to sell my Klark Teknik 1176-KT. I'm also picking up a Neve 1073LB and 1073 LBEQ ($1,600/Pair) and I'm going to sell the Warm Audio WA273-EQ. I have the Great River MP-500NV and I'll probably pick up an API 512V and call it a day with those 3 preamps.

As I mentioned I had the Klark Teknik KT-2A on pre-order, but for the same Revive Mod reasons I delved deeper into other options. The real LA-2A is fairly pricey at $3,500 so I checked out Stam and from reading about Stam on Gearslutz I discovered Audio Scape. I just ordered their Opto Compressor and Buss Compressor.

An old friend called me back yesterday who engineered like (20) "Top 10" pop songs back in the day and I told him I was looking for a Buss Compressor. He mentioned Fairchild (with a laugh considering how expensive they are). He then recommended an SSL G Buss Compressor so that's why I went with the cost effective A.S. I'm not plugging them. Don't know them and I've never heard their equipment in person - just on You Tube, but the reviews and cost were both right.

I posted this thread because my friend hadn't called me back for awhile so I figured he'd had enough of my questions - I don't blame him - but yesterday when he called me back he answered a number of new questions.

On this thread someone mentioned the Manley ELOP which I wasn't familiar with, but going to Manley's website I discovered the Nu Mu also. Seems intriguing.

I can pick up a Manley Vari Mu for just $2,300 right now, but the Vari Mu probably isn't suited for the style of music I intent to work on. The Nu Mu seems like it would be a better fit.

I'm going to get a 2nd Buss Compressor ... Nu Mu, API 2500, Red 3, Dramasatic Obsidian, Dangerous, Crane, Smart, Neve Portico II MBP ... I don't know. If I happen to find anything for a price that would allow me to re-sell it without a loss then I'll buy it and check it out to see if it's a keeper. Otherwise I'll keep researching to figure out what's best for my purposes.

One great thing about LA is there's a lot of great musicians who have endorsement deals and get free gear from manufacturers and then sell it for below market prices.

As far as my "room" and treatment ... basically sucks ... apartment ... but I've spent money on trying to get it as right as possible. Versare Acoustic Dividers, lots of Auralex, KRK Rokit 10 G3 Speakers and Questyle 400 Audiophile Headphone Amp w/HiFi Man, Focal, Sennheiser & Beyerdynamic Headphones. I'll be using a lot of decent headphones to mix, but that's OK. I don't have deadlines or have to prove myself to clients. I can listen to hit songs in the headphones to get an understanding of how they should sound and try and try again to mix my stuff accordingly.

2 weeks ago I didn't know anything about Buss Compressors and now I'm ready to buy a second one. Oh well, that's why I posted this thread because you never know what people will mention and how that opens up new possibilities.
Old 20th July 2018
  #17
Here for the gear
This was my equipment in the 80's. Never enough to get a "Record Quality" sound at home. If only Gearslutz existed back then LOL, at least I would have had a better understanding of what I was missing.
Attached Thumbnails
Buss Compressor for Pop/R&B ala Rihanna/Bruno Mars-music-equipment-.jpg  
Old 20th July 2018 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
noah330's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert13 ➡️
This was my equipment in the 80's. Never enough to get a "Record Quality" sound at home. If only Gearslutz existed back then LOL, at least I would have had a better understanding of what I was missing.
That was a pretty bad ass setup for back then!
Old 20th July 2018
  #19
Here for the gear
Thanks!

Over the years I've had 17 friends & acquaintances who came over my place (wherever I lived) that went on to become famous. I was great at recognizing the potential in people and predicting who would make it. I'm hoping I can recreate a little bit of that in today's world. Trying to get back .001% of my youth this way and safer than buying a Harley Sportster, LOL.
Old 20th July 2018
  #20
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks for the more complete picture of your experience level.
Please PM me if you'd like. There's a hard non-GS friendly truth to be discussed. You'll ultimately like it, I think.
Old 20th July 2018
  #21
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Yo,

I am going partially agree with psycho monkey…you need to stop buying for a while.

I'm in LA and have been doing music professionally since the 90's and still doing it (THANK YOU GOD). I've worked with a lot of producers, engineers and songwriters over the years. What you have is way overkill for what it is that you want to do. Recording pop/r&b is not that deep.

1. most pop/r&b chains are very simple. 1 good mic 1 good comp and 1 good pre. Notice I said good not great. part of the vibe is taking what you have and and making it work.

2. this is subjective but pres come in basic flavors and then most are offshoots from there:

neves
api
trident (kinda api meets neve)
telefunken v series
clean (avalons, millenia, hardy etc)

you only need one of these really but 2-3 would be great but once you have a particular flavor, you don't need redundancy. the great river, the 1073lb and the warm 73 fall into the neve category so you only need one of these. I'd keep the great river.

3. keep the mojave. I'd ditch the 87ai and find an older one for the 70's. 87's are not the greatest but they seem to work on everyone well enough.

4. number one compressor I see is the cl1b for pop/r&b records. next would be retro 176, some summit tla 100

5. as far as buss comp, anything ssl will work. I love the obsidian but they are all good.

6. the best place to spend your money is not on the gear but the treatment of the room then monitors. If you get this right first and you won't need as much gear to make your music sound great

Last edited by ejsongs; 20th July 2018 at 02:41 PM..
Old 20th July 2018
  #22
Lives for gear
 
BIG BUDDHA's Avatar
if you are going to go pop, then get an Amek 9098 EQ. i love those things for vocals to tape/DAW. the Amek can sort any microphone/vocal eq issues.

if you want a cheepish but good 2nd buss comp look at the HI Voltage 4000-G series. vca type with sidechain eq options. thats the answer to the question you asked. i have one and it works well here for me.

also you might need a mastering multiband limiter chain as well. and i would suggest the big Genelecs, so you can hear it properly.

i have a couple of tube Pultecs on the stereo buss, and they do help.

but rearly it takes years to know how to drive all this gear, so buying more seems premature, unless you have just inherited a million or so, and have lots of time on your hands.

you might need an engineer as well, to make it all work.

best wishes

Buddha
Attached Thumbnails
Buss Compressor for Pop/R&B ala Rihanna/Bruno Mars-hi-voltage-neve-8803-eq.jpg  
Old 20th July 2018
  #23
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
The Audio-Scape stuff is money well spent. Great decision. For the second buss comp I would look up the Hendyamps Pollock instead of the Nu Mu.
Old 20th July 2018 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert13 ➡️
This was my equipment in the 80's. Never enough to get a "Record Quality" sound at home. If only Gearslutz existed back then LOL, at least I would have had a better understanding of what I was missing.
I agree that that was exceptionally good stuff for a personal studio in the 80s.

First, let me apologize for suggesting you might be a troll. You obviously are not.

One thing I notice in that 80s picture is that the monitors are in an awful relationship to the listener position. From that, and from other current clues (mentioning the monitors last, having somewhat budget monitors compared to your spending on other gear, listing Auralex as your treatment), I think you need to put a hold on your gearmania and do some serious reading in the acoustics forum. I won’t quarrel with the choice of KRKs, or with any reasonable monitor choice, but you are not going to hear the KRKs clearly in an almost untreated room. Which also means all your other gear purchases are not going to be used to full advantage.
Get your room together. Do that before you run through your gear money. Then plug this stuff in and evaluate it in your own room. If I am reading your posts correctly, you’ve already bought and resold equipment without listening to it. That’s nuts! If someone dumped a load of old Behringer gear on my doorstep, I would give each item a listen before selling or trashing it. And that’s old Behringer! You didn’t even listen to a new Avalon unit! Agghhh.....

OK, I’m better now. It’s your money and your decisions, but plug in the gear and use your ears. That’s engineering. I don’t know what to call what you’re doing.
Old 20th July 2018
  #25
Deleted c2a9416
Guest
Ha ha don't listen to these guys, this is Gearslutz not Plugunslutz or Uadslutz. You need shiny gear with lights an meters and valvey smells ..... who cares if it ain't a hit record if it was cooked properly and used loads of electricity ..
Old 20th July 2018
  #26
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
I have to correct myself again. In your picture, I thought the only monitors were the JBLs(I think) at the top of the bookshelf. I just expanded the picture because I couldn’t identify the rack gear. I still couldn’t identify the rack gear, but I see now that you had bookshelf-size speakers in a correctly oriented placement.
But what is the other gear?
Old 21st July 2018
  #27
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
For hiphop and rnb? An Apollo with Cytomic Glue should do fine honestly

Edit: and some Krk or Yamaha monitors.
Old 21st July 2018
  #28
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EvilRoy's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
If you're looking for clones, you would do well to consider Stam Audio. Scheming to get an LA-2A clone myself.
Old 21st July 2018 | Show parent
  #29
Deleted c2a9416
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilRoy ➡️
If you're looking for clones, you would do well to consider Stam Audio. Scheming to get an LA-2A clone myself.
You could also check out HandCrafted Labs Solution2 - quality is right up there, weeks instead of months turnaround, prices might surprise you too.
Old 21st July 2018
  #30
Here for the gear
I know the equipment “Merry Go Round” has to stop, but I’m getting a better handle on what I have.
I’m going to research the various suggestions here.

My vocal rack now simply consists of
Neve 1073LB & LBEQ
Great River MP-500NV
Universal Audio 1176LN
Audio Quest Opto (LA-2A) Compressor

I had considered going a whole different route getting an RND Shelford Channel or Portico II Channel.

As “nephew312” and others have mentioned, a Tube Tech CL1B is still something to consider and probably should have been my first choice.

The equipment in my photo is:

Right Rack:
Tascam 38 ½” 8 Track Recorder
(2) DBX DX-4D Noise Reduction (4 Channels Each) for the Tascam 38
Tascam 122 MKII Cassette Deck
BBE 422
Tascam GA-30 EQ w/Spectrum Analyzer
Tascam 112 Cassette Deck
DBX 263X De-Esser
DBX 160X Compressor

Center
JBL Monitors (ridiculously high) and I don’t remember the lower monitors.
Middle Shelf - Yamaha TX7 FM Expander (small little flat desktop Sound Module)
Ensoniq SQ80 Keyboard

Left Rack:
Korg M1R Sound Module
AKAI PEQ6 Reverb
Oberheim Matrix 1000
Roland MKS-50 Sound Module #1
Roland MKS-50 Sound Module #2
Roland S-550 Sampler
(2) Lexicon LXP-1 Reverbs (1/2 Rack Space Each)
(2) Alesis Microverb II Reverbs & Alesis Micro Enhancer
Roland M160 16 Channel Mixer #1
Roland M160 16 Channel Mixer #2
Roland R8 Drum Machine
AKAI ASQ10 Sequencer

Roland D50 Keyboard
Roland Juno 1 Keyboard

But the first time I really felt like I had something is when I bought an EMU SP12. What great sounds it had for that era.
Attached Thumbnails
Buss Compressor for Pop/R&B ala Rihanna/Bruno Mars-2.jpg  
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