@ TheHanes

So from what I’ve been reading Apple uses the EC-3 format which ignores the binaural metadata (off, near, mid, far).

Is this correct and how have you been addressing this in the mix?

Cheers!

I’ve heard similar things.

As far as I can tell, There is nothing to do to address it in the mix because they have not given us a tool to preview what they are doing on decode.

So I am ignoring Apple and I’m mixing in Dolby Atmos to spec, and I guess I’m not mixing in Apple ??atmos?? mystery spec likely to change.

@ TheHanes

If a track is feeling a little lifeless (let's say a digital synth or a ploppy bass guitar), what's your 2021 top 3 favorite tools to bring things to life?

@ TheHanes What concepts do you apply in order to glue the vocals to the music? Is the reverb the way to glue? Is it mixbus compression and coloration?

Do you ever compress music and vocals together?

Not wanting you necessarily to bring me the fish, but some guidelines and core concepts that allow the vocals and the music to form one “coherent bloc” if that makes sense.
Thank you hundred times!

I guess one of them is 90s plugin inflator... Other one is Adjusting the release of the compressor
3rd one may be using either lofi/phoenix/mcdsp vocal processor/ ml4000
P.S : all of the above are guesses..Not genuine [email protected] . But pretty sure one of them is right!

'Coherent bloc' factor is missing for all other engineers. Careful selection of masterbus chain will do it I reckon ..Music and vocals definitely gets compressed and goes through many processes together to create the act react kinda lively response

Care to shortly elaborate on that? It may be useful concept and I (and probably many other non-englsh speakers) don't get the idea

From what I've read, the answer is "less compression, and more automation than you think."

Longer releases can help. But another thing I think I've learned from this thread, and some other pop mixers talking about it, is the interaction with the vocals and multiband compression on the master. This is where I start guessing, but I've found that when you can get midrange compression (around 200-2000hz, but obviously it varies) on the master to be driven by the vocals, it's a big part of the sound. I saw Jaycen Joshua talking about pretty much the same thing, and he was doing 6db of compression in the midrange no problem. And yeah, adjusting the attack/release time can really dial in how much the vocals dominate the track in my experience.

@ sircuit .. When you hear a live performance..The frequency balance is usually bad 99% of the time..But the timing information is usually spot on. Sounding of recorded music never fail to fail in the timing department..Except for serban mixes... He some how makes the song almost as meaningful as a live performance. This sense of timing is what I meant by cohesion of vox n music

Exercise.. hear bad habits by ed sheeran. Not a serban mix..But got some freq characteristics of a serban mix. But the timing info. is so bad that I rate it as a bad mix.
NB: after all nothing else matters as long as the bad habits song is in the top charts 😂.. consumer doesn't care abt anything of this

To be honest, as a native English speaker, I'm not following this either.

I think you're using the term "timing" in a way we wouldn't....

Indeed I didn’t get it 😀

Offtopic-ish: I must be honest, I don’t have the ability to instantly recognize a Serban mix out of other pop mixes. Being exposed to foreign lyrics since I was a toddler, I perceive the vocal simply like a lead instrument, I even now have issues in understanding the verses (I started learning English after my 20s). What I hear when I dissect a Serban mix is always an impossible level of separation and clarity between elements (without mix being sterile) tight and powerful low end, bright and clear high end but not clinical, just “alive” (for lack of a better word). This is all I can perceive. Blinded by the Light, 24K Magic, AG songs, are all so different for me, I can’t find a apparent signature or common ground in the frequency spectrum or vocal treatment, I would never guess from casual listening that is the work of the same engineer.

Also maybe I am wrong on this but his mixes tend to break down as soon as I make an eq move on them, and for me that’s perfection. I spent months almost obsessively analyzing his mixes, I am not sure I drawn the most accurate conclusions but my ear training went through the roof 😀😀😀

I think that's the goal of any mixer - to be somewhat of a chameleon. Now days rough mixes and stems are so specific that most clients don't want mixing to reinvent the wheel. Serban and John are top mixers and at the level they are at the files they get are (mostly) in amazing shape. Not always of course, but in those specific artists you listed the producers have a very clear direction of where the song is going. I'm sure if John and Serban made them all sound the same they would be getting very bad feedback from their clients. The goal of a mixer today is to enhance what they're given, not reinvent the wheel.

I perfectly agree with that and I consider this “transparency” as the most advanced achievement of any mixing engineer.

I am just somehow confused that people can pick up a certain signature where chances are there isn’t one.

Now I’m going to friendly pat myself on the back for my own wisdom and retire for the day in a bit of weeknd gaming.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ll be in the car or listening to a playlist and a song pops on that sounds so good I need to look up who mixed it. 90% of the time its Serban.

It’s not even a particular sound signature, they just stand out as being better than everything else. There’s a clarity and definition in the sub bass that just gets me every time. Just the other day “No Diggity” by Blackstreet came on and I had to look it up. Serban’s been crushing since the 90’s!

Yess

I’d just like to say I’ve caught a **** load of fish recently

Thanks for the lessons John

I’d be interested in this clarification of “timing”

We talking about slower releases?

@ TheHanes

Hello John Hanes,

Thank you again for your presence here on this platform.

Lately I've been fine tuning the master bus expander & multiband compression to have an effect only on the MID channels, I found out that by not manipulating the Sides, the mix feels less "processed". It also seems that the sides are a bit enhanced (like more depth).

Do you have any advice for me? It would help me to fine tune it to "perfection" - That would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards

Nate

@ TheHanes

Hi man! First question that i have for u. Thanks for all the knowledge.

Did u use mcdsp 2000? 4000? Fab filter pro mb dynone or c4/6?

Mainly on vox but can be a general question to

Thanks in advance!

What's bad timing, the vocal against the track? He's singing ahead of the beat which I agree is a bad sound, but is that the mix engineer's fault? Lord what a boring song, by the way. It's sad that this is what's popular.

Have you read through this thread and the Q+A? If not, please do so to make sure you're not repeating anything, thanks!

The multiband topic was pretty much addressed - with plugins name, reasoning and general guide

Q+A with John Hanes link

Speaking of the Q+A, @ TheHanes you mentioned once in the Q+A as answer to a master bus question that
"I wouldn't generally mix into a high / low pass eq. You're just going to compensate elsewhere by boosting or cutting those frequencies on the individual tracks. I would prefer to fix these things at the source."

That means that you see a possible degradation of sound if using an EQ on the master for cutting the let's say under 20 Hz and over 19K? You'll rather do this cleanup on each track of the project (tracks and auxes alike)?

To me sounds counter intuitive (although I can see the possible issues with introducing an extra phase shift in the low end where is not needed because the low end was already treated), but I learned that a lot of successful/positive outcomes come from counterintuitive processes so I pay more attention when this situation occurs

And for me Eds vocal phrasing is the big take away in this song. I really like the groove. Can't stop my feet from moving!

i read more about multiband on mixbuss but i dont read anything on multiband vocals :/ lets see if i can found something, sorry for that

hard to answer other than this: The things that bring it to life will be volume and frequency changes. I would experiment with some extreme EQ or dynamics, or maybe some keyed compression or other effects that alter these two basic elements.

Go extreme with something and then use something else to crush it back down to a reasonable sound.

Use some plugins or effects that aren't normal. You might need to band-split the track and apply extreme affects to the highs to bring out some energy, while leaving the lows as a solid base. I like Gaffel plugin for this.

For me it isn't an issue of degradation of the sound or phase shifting. I guess I would equal it to fixing lots of small things accurately rather than applying one setting across the whole mix.

I'll use multi band on vocals a a fix-it tool, but not as an overall EQ in general.

For vocals, I feel that I don't want a variable EQ that might change the sound too much from part to part; but if there are some particular harsh frequencies that pop out regularly, I might tune a multi band EQ to hit that frequency (like a de-esser, but more tunable).

I might also just use a precision eq plugin with automation to notch an offending frequency down.

I guess that I prefer precision, targeted fixes, rather than a general "stick this on it" approach.

No specific advice other than if you've come up with something that makes your mixes better, use it! There are no wrong techniques or answers if the result is a better sounding mix.