Originally Posted by lawrence_o ➡️

Old thread but since I own SCM45 Pro's I'll add in some comment.

Originally Posted by lawrence_o ➡️

Old thread but since I own SCM45 Pro's I'll add in some comment.

Before deciding, I tested quite some monitors:
- Adam S3XH (former model)
- Adam S4XH (now replaced by the 5)
- Amphion One 18
- Amphion Two 18
- KH310
- KH420
- Focal SM9
- Focal Trio 6be
- PMC two two 8
- ATC SCM45 Pro
- Kii Three

Making mainly EDM, Bigroom, Trance etc, bass response and reverbs are really important.
I tested these together with a friend who is also mix/master engineer whereas I am merely a producer/mixer.
It was clear our preferences were very different.
He loved the Ampions, I did not because there is insufficient low end nor does it reveal reverb sufficiently for me.
I liked the Focal Trio 6 Be better in that end but for Hip Hop vocals I must say I prefered on the Amphions. The Trio 6be had some sort of Hi Fi thing: they sounded good on a lot of material so in a mix you'd be satisfied too easily.
The Adams S3XH (former model) sucked, sorry. On paper they are supposed to blow the PMC's out of the water with more loudness and amp power but bringing it to practice, the PMC's were the clear power winners. My buddy ended up buyng the PMC's, I ended with the ATC's.

I doubted for a long time between SM9 and ATC but the mid clarity and stereo field was noticeably superior on ATC. Also, the SM9 are too boomy and I have the impression that the many regulators at the back do colden the sound somehow. Or perhaps it's the drivers, I don't really know but the ATC's sound just warmer.

The KH series were a no go at all for me. Not enough power and I dislike the sound.
The Adam S4xH would have been ok too but I had already made my mind about the ATC's.

One thing I do regret though is that I did not get the Kii's in my studio. Instead I listened to them in the dealer's room and because I did not know that brand, I put them aside too soon.

I am happy with the ATC's but I did throw in an Adam SUB15 because I don't hear bass sweeps and kick bottom enough without it. That makes this an expensive setup. With the Kii THree's I would probably not have needed this.

After my purchase, and after initially having been too negative towards the Kii's, I noticed that all the top engineers were blown away by them so I felt I needed to give them another chance. Only then I realized how much better they are than my set-up. Mixing errors I made were immediately revealed on the Kii's. They are sooo damn correct, it's unlike anything I have ever heard.

But about ATC SCM45 Pro, it is also my opinion that for electronic music, they don't go low enough. I remember a track that had this bass donwer sweep. Without the sub it was . iiieeeeeuuuum. With the sub it was iiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuuummmmmm :-D All i'm saying, on the sub the sweep continued a second or so longer so there is some information you don't hear with the near-field alone and which can be pretty important when mixing.

Voila, hope it helps anyone.

Cheers

Originally Posted by SashaGray ➡️

I had ATC and Kiis here side by side.. while I could hear bass with the Kiis I could feel it on the ATC.. just as the rest of the frequency spectrum. Kii sounds like a super high-end, hi-resolution plugin. ATCs sounds like the real deal.
Music is not all about super hi-res 8k definition. It's about feel, and groove and emotion..

Originally Posted by SashaGray ➡️

I had ATC and Kiis here side by side.. while I could hear bass with the Kiis I could feel it on the ATC.. just as the rest of the frequency spectrum. Kii sounds like a super high-end, hi-resolution plugin. ATCs sounds like the real deal.
Music is not all about super hi-res 8k definition. It's about feel, and groove and emotion..

Originally Posted by lawrence_o ➡️

Well while I respect your opinion, that is not at all what I observed. I still hav my ATC's and am happy with them. But I know the Kii's are (for me at least) better.

The ATC's roll off at 42Hz. The Kii's go way deeper. Perhaps ATC goes louder, that is possible. But comparing the Kii's with a plugin? Man, seriously? :-)

When I cranked them up I could really feel the bass. They revealed mixing errors considerably better than the ATC's. Especially in the lows.

But it's all relative. If you prefer ATC, well be happy with them. If I ever get a new set, it'll be Kii's. For now, the ATC's do fine after having been complemented with an Adam SUB15. I would not have needed that sub with the Kii's. (not saying they produce the same bass power, just I could have heard more low to not have needed it)

Originally Posted by lawrence_o ➡️

Well while I respect your opinion, that is not at all what I observed. I still hav my ATC's and am happy with them. But I know the Kii's are (for me at least) better.

The ATC's roll off at 42Hz. The Kii's go way deeper. Perhaps ATC goes louder, that is possible. But comparing the Kii's with a plugin? Man, seriously? :-)

When I cranked them up I could really feel the bass. They revealed mixing errors considerably better than the ATC's. Especially in the lows.

But it's all relative. If you prefer ATC, well be happy with them. If I ever get a new set, it'll be Kii's. For now, the ATC's do fine after having been complemented with an Adam SUB15. I would not have needed that sub with the Kii's. (not saying they produce the same bass power, just I could have heard more low to not have needed it)

Originally Posted by axkan ➡️

I would go for the 50’s.
The 45’s didn’t sound good on my room.
The classic mids clarity on ATC kind of spreads to my ears. Maybe it’s from the double mids, but you can’t go wrong with the 50s. Although note I ended up getting the MM27s.

Originally Posted by africantigercow ➡️

I'm quite happy to say that the all of the atc models I have heard have been STUNNINGLY close in terms of signature sound. It has generally just been a thing of bass extension. (even the mids on the 20s were pretty darn close to the mids on the 50s to be honest... Quite how the hell is a bit of a mystery to me but yeah...)

I certainly would never ever ever call any of them muddy though!
I haven't heard the 45s but I would be incredibly surprised if they were.

ATC were something of a revelation for me after years of trying out every speaker I could, for some reason I avoided atc's because the specs read so poorly, the high cost and rumours of anaemic bass...

Truth is: The specs are actually honest. SPL figures are sustained. Frequency response figures are free standing. The bass is just honest (at last!)

In my case, the cost was very much justified.

Initially i replaced a set of adam S4x with a pair of floor stander atc scm20. Cost difference might indicate that this was a step backwards but in terms of getting work done, the scm20 were several steps ahead of the s4x in my space.

The 20s have since been replaced with some sl spec 50s.

Originally Posted by Abdalla ➡️

I have had both and those are on roughly the same (high) level except for bass capability.

Originally Posted by buddyboy ➡️

Do you mean youve had both the S3x's and the ATC scm20's?

Originally Posted by the octopuss ➡️

The 50's are the most balanced of the whole ATC range imo. Mix weapons

Originally Posted by Abdalla ➡️

Yes, exactly that, S3X-V and SCM20PSL with a decent amp.

Originally Posted by buddyboy ➡️

Ah I see, i have the s3x-h which I think being “landscape” doesn’t suit my room. I’m thinking of trying the scm20 asl’s plus pmc two two 5’s.

Originally Posted by cheu78 ➡️

pmc twotwo6 (as well as the result6) are much better than the twotwo5 imho.

In some ways I even preferred the result6 (as a monitor) to the twotwo6, although they do sound very good (or technically speaking “better/nicer” than the result6).

I felt that the twotwo5 were too much of a compromise.. the cabinet might be too small, at least that was my impression when I a/b’d them.

The scm20 is superior to all of these regarding the resolution and detail, althought the twotwo6 and result6 do have more lowend extension (due to their design nature).. so they feel more “full range”..
Great monitors!



Cheu

Originally Posted by buddyboy ➡️

Silly me I meant to say two two 6 not 5! But I’ll be sure to check out the result 6 also

Originally Posted by cheu78 ➡️

Yes, do that..they’re very good monitors.

I felt that the twotwo series (twotwo 6 in this case) has too much “dsp” going on..

Don’t get me wrong, they are great monitors, but to me they feel “processed”.. kind of “smoothed out” in a way..
they’re still very detailed, decent mids, nice lowend..but they felt kinda “polished” for lack of better words..

The result6 in comparison might be a tad “thinner” overall (less “dense” or “thick”) and maybe a tad “pinched” in the xover freq range.. but felt more “true” somehow.. the twotwo sounds “nicer” (but this doesn’t mean the twotwo are less revealing.. just trying to describe what I’ve heard/felt).

If I had to get one between these, I’d probably choose the result6, and invest the saved money in a great 3way monitor (and using the result6 as a second reference, sort of a full range ns10..)
Or go for the scm20 (as a mixing tool, like an ns10 on steroid and then a great 3way).

Mind you the scm20 don’t have the extension than the 2way pmc’s have..

these are a sealed cabinet and they don’t go as low and don’t feel as “full” sounding, but they’re great mixing tools..
if used as the main speaker you might want to integrate them with a subwoofer pro’s 10 or 12 (maybe to use with a footswitch).

Let us know your findings..
These are just my opinions.. everyone and every room is different.

EDIT: wanted to add that the differencies described above are mainly only possible/hearable when a/b’ing at the same time.. otherwise the result6 don’t sound thin or pinched AT ALL.



Cheu

Originally Posted by buddyboy ➡️

That lack of bass in the scm20 worries me, I may have to look at the scm25. I don’t really have the budget or room to buy the result6’s and another 3way.

I know it’s all subjective and I will arrange a demo at my local dealer when lockdown restrictions end.

Maybe my expectations of finding one set of nearfileds is unrealistic!

Originally Posted by Abdalla ➡️

Is the mentioned "fullness" a bass prolonged and delayed but the transmission line of PMC? It is not a good thing for critical listening at all.

Originally Posted by Abdalla ➡️

So, if mentioning ATC's and PMC's together, why is there no measurement data is available for the latter ones?

Also, hearing anything bass-related from a speaker equipped with 6 inch driver would not be a good sign anyway. Only 4" will give you more "bass" probably.

As for SCM20's, it is quite a unique design, its bass driver is actually nothing to do with bass as its cone is soft and has no rigid border. It is a mid-range driver with extended to LF response by design (the moving assembly is heavier to support that).

Originally Posted by cheu78 ➡️

If I had to get one between these, I’d probably choose the result6, and invest the saved money in a great 3way monitor (and using the result6 as a second reference, sort of a full range ns10..)





Cheu

Originally Posted by buddyboy ➡️

Hey Abdalla,

Have you tried both the scm20 and 25’s? I’ve been in touch with atc and they’ve told me they are both phase coherent at 1m, I’m hoping to change my room around to get my listening position to 1.5m away.

Originally Posted by buddyboy ➡️

Atc have told me the scm20 maybe better suited to a smaller room.

Originally Posted by Abdalla ➡️

I have not had SCM25 but 1.5m should be fine, I am using PA65 at less than 1.5m and the coherency is there.

This is only true if you can not adjust the LF at the listener's position. Otherwise size does not matter.

Originally Posted by Brad Lunde ➡️

ATC says that because of the relationship between smaller room dimensions and bass. Why invest in a speaker that cannot produce lots of bass in your small room due to wavelength?
Brad