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ATC SCM45 vs. SCM50
Old 11th April 2020 | Show parent
  #31
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrence_o ➡️
Old thread but since I own SCM45 Pro's I'll add in some comment.

I had ATC and Kiis here side by side.. while I could hear bass with the Kiis I could feel it on the ATC.. just as the rest of the frequency spectrum. Kii sounds like a super high-end, hi-resolution plugin. ATCs sounds like the real deal.
Music is not all about super hi-res 8k definition. It's about feel, and groove and emotion..
Old 11th April 2020
  #32
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cheu78's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrence_o ➡️
Old thread but since I own SCM45 Pro's I'll add in some comment.

Before deciding, I tested quite some monitors:
- Adam S3XH (former model)
- Adam S4XH (now replaced by the 5)
- Amphion One 18
- Amphion Two 18
- KH310
- KH420
- Focal SM9
- Focal Trio 6be
- PMC two two 8
- ATC SCM45 Pro
- Kii Three

Making mainly EDM, Bigroom, Trance etc, bass response and reverbs are really important.
I tested these together with a friend who is also mix/master engineer whereas I am merely a producer/mixer.
It was clear our preferences were very different.
He loved the Ampions, I did not because there is insufficient low end nor does it reveal reverb sufficiently for me.
I liked the Focal Trio 6 Be better in that end but for Hip Hop vocals I must say I prefered on the Amphions. The Trio 6be had some sort of Hi Fi thing: they sounded good on a lot of material so in a mix you'd be satisfied too easily.
The Adams S3XH (former model) sucked, sorry. On paper they are supposed to blow the PMC's out of the water with more loudness and amp power but bringing it to practice, the PMC's were the clear power winners. My buddy ended up buyng the PMC's, I ended with the ATC's.

I doubted for a long time between SM9 and ATC but the mid clarity and stereo field was noticeably superior on ATC. Also, the SM9 are too boomy and I have the impression that the many regulators at the back do colden the sound somehow. Or perhaps it's the drivers, I don't really know but the ATC's sound just warmer.

The KH series were a no go at all for me. Not enough power and I dislike the sound.
The Adam S4xH would have been ok too but I had already made my mind about the ATC's.

One thing I do regret though is that I did not get the Kii's in my studio. Instead I listened to them in the dealer's room and because I did not know that brand, I put them aside too soon.

I am happy with the ATC's but I did throw in an Adam SUB15 because I don't hear bass sweeps and kick bottom enough without it. That makes this an expensive setup. With the Kii THree's I would probably not have needed this.

After my purchase, and after initially having been too negative towards the Kii's, I noticed that all the top engineers were blown away by them so I felt I needed to give them another chance. Only then I realized how much better they are than my set-up. Mixing errors I made were immediately revealed on the Kii's. They are sooo damn correct, it's unlike anything I have ever heard.

But about ATC SCM45 Pro, it is also my opinion that for electronic music, they don't go low enough. I remember a track that had this bass donwer sweep. Without the sub it was . iiieeeeeuuuum. With the sub it was iiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuuummmmmm :-D All i'm saying, on the sub the sweep continued a second or so longer so there is some information you don't hear with the near-field alone and which can be pretty important when mixing.

Voila, hope it helps anyone.

Cheers
PMC has the IB2-s or the old MB2’s (with a good amp), which might be considered for your needs (with their atl design).
Better than the two two series.
Is a “different“ bass than the atc.

Also with your atc setup, you could check the subwoofer pros 12 (they now also have the 10”, or the larger 18”).
They will integrate very well, since they were designed with ATC in mind.

I’m sure your room is decently treated, eventually try to find out if there’s a dip in your room in the lower frequencies, or try to move the 45’s slightly higher/lower or left/right out of the nodes (if possible).



Cheu
Old 12th April 2020 | Show parent
  #33
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valeot's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Exactly my experience as well! Had both in my room, the Atc stayed

Quote:
Originally Posted by SashaGray ➡️
I had ATC and Kiis here side by side.. while I could hear bass with the Kiis I could feel it on the ATC.. just as the rest of the frequency spectrum. Kii sounds like a super high-end, hi-resolution plugin. ATCs sounds like the real deal.
Music is not all about super hi-res 8k definition. It's about feel, and groove and emotion..
Old 12th April 2020 | Show parent
  #34
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lawrence_o's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SashaGray ➡️
I had ATC and Kiis here side by side.. while I could hear bass with the Kiis I could feel it on the ATC.. just as the rest of the frequency spectrum. Kii sounds like a super high-end, hi-resolution plugin. ATCs sounds like the real deal.
Music is not all about super hi-res 8k definition. It's about feel, and groove and emotion..
Well while I respect your opinion, that is not at all what I observed. I still hav my ATC's and am happy with them. But I know the Kii's are (for me at least) better.

The ATC's roll off at 42Hz. The Kii's go way deeper. Perhaps ATC goes louder, that is possible. But comparing the Kii's with a plugin? Man, seriously? :-)

When I cranked them up I could really feel the bass. They revealed mixing errors considerably better than the ATC's. Especially in the lows.

But it's all relative. If you prefer ATC, well be happy with them. If I ever get a new set, it'll be Kii's. For now, the ATC's do fine after having been complemented with an Adam SUB15. I would not have needed that sub with the Kii's. (not saying they produce the same bass power, just I could have heard more low to not have needed it)
Old 13th April 2020 | Show parent
  #35
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valeot's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrence_o ➡️
Well while I respect your opinion, that is not at all what I observed. I still hav my ATC's and am happy with them. But I know the Kii's are (for me at least) better.

The ATC's roll off at 42Hz. The Kii's go way deeper. Perhaps ATC goes louder, that is possible. But comparing the Kii's with a plugin? Man, seriously? :-)

When I cranked them up I could really feel the bass. They revealed mixing errors considerably better than the ATC's. Especially in the lows.

But it's all relative. If you prefer ATC, well be happy with them. If I ever get a new set, it'll be Kii's. For now, the ATC's do fine after having been complemented with an Adam SUB15. I would not have needed that sub with the Kii's. (not saying they produce the same bass power, just I could have heard more low to not have needed it)

I repeat myself, but I really agree with SashaGray. the KII's are fine speakers but they sound lifeless and clinical, they do have more bass but at the same time they are very lowmids shy and that's where the body of music is.

my impression was the KII's work way better in not well treated rooms than ATC's because of their cardioid bass, thats an advance of course, but in a proper room with subs (if you want a lot of bass) the ATC's are a no brainer. and they will be also great in 10, 20 years, not sure if the KII's will hold their value in 10-20 years as digital is getting better.

actually the ATC's became something like the modern and better sounding NS10.
Old 13th August 2020 | Show parent
  #36
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Have you heard the Dutch and Dutch 8C? Imo better than Kii Three and a similar design. I'm selling a pair and using my Amphion Two 18 because my room is tiny and I could use the money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrence_o ➡️
Well while I respect your opinion, that is not at all what I observed. I still hav my ATC's and am happy with them. But I know the Kii's are (for me at least) better.

The ATC's roll off at 42Hz. The Kii's go way deeper. Perhaps ATC goes louder, that is possible. But comparing the Kii's with a plugin? Man, seriously? :-)

When I cranked them up I could really feel the bass. They revealed mixing errors considerably better than the ATC's. Especially in the lows.

But it's all relative. If you prefer ATC, well be happy with them. If I ever get a new set, it'll be Kii's. For now, the ATC's do fine after having been complemented with an Adam SUB15. I would not have needed that sub with the Kii's. (not saying they produce the same bass power, just I could have heard more low to not have needed it)
Old 24th September 2020
  #37
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
I would go for the 50’s.
The 45’s didn’t sound good on my room.
The classic mids clarity on ATC kind of spreads to my ears. Maybe it’s from the double mids, but you can’t go wrong with the 50s. Although note I ended up getting the MM27s.
Old 25th September 2020 | Show parent
  #38
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pentagon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by axkan ➡️
I would go for the 50’s.
The 45’s didn’t sound good on my room.
The classic mids clarity on ATC kind of spreads to my ears. Maybe it’s from the double mids, but you can’t go wrong with the 50s. Although note I ended up getting the MM27s.
There are no double mids on any of them. The 45 has two woofers and one mid (and one tweeter). The 50 has one woofer and one mid (and one tweeter.)
Old 25th September 2020
  #39
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palebluedot's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
50's all day long with a caveat..

I have 50's with the ATC sub However, If their purpose is more for making music/producing then I suspect you might have more fun with the 45s. The 50's are amazing for mixing, definitely more of an accurate account of the low end. 45s have got more wallop to vibe off

Geithans worth an honourable mention too..
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #40
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by africantigercow ➡️
I'm quite happy to say that the all of the atc models I have heard have been STUNNINGLY close in terms of signature sound. It has generally just been a thing of bass extension. (even the mids on the 20s were pretty darn close to the mids on the 50s to be honest... Quite how the hell is a bit of a mystery to me but yeah...)

I certainly would never ever ever call any of them muddy though!
I haven't heard the 45s but I would be incredibly surprised if they were.

ATC were something of a revelation for me after years of trying out every speaker I could, for some reason I avoided atc's because the specs read so poorly, the high cost and rumours of anaemic bass...

Truth is: The specs are actually honest. SPL figures are sustained. Frequency response figures are free standing. The bass is just honest (at last!)

In my case, the cost was very much justified.

Initially i replaced a set of adam S4x with a pair of floor stander atc scm20. Cost difference might indicate that this was a step backwards but in terms of getting work done, the scm20 were several steps ahead of the s4x in my space.

The 20s have since been replaced with some sl spec 50s.
I’ve just stumbled across this post as I’m thinking of swapping out my s3x-s for some etc smc20’s. I’m in a small room, do you still think it was a good move for you?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #41
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Abdalla's Avatar
I have had both and those are on roughly the same (high) level except for bass capability.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #42
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdalla ➡️
I have had both and those are on roughly the same (high) level except for bass capability.
Do you mean youve had both the S3x's and the ATC scm20's?
Old 1 week ago
  #43
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
The 50's are the most balanced of the whole ATC range imo. Mix weapons
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #44
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drockfresh's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
ATC prices went up... a lot

At Sweetwater
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #45
Gear Nut
 
Abdalla's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyboy ➡️
Do you mean youve had both the S3x's and the ATC scm20's?
Yes, exactly that, S3X-V and SCM20PSL with a decent amp.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #46
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by the octopuss ➡️
The 50's are the most balanced of the whole ATC range imo. Mix weapons
ATC SCM 150 ASL
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #47
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdalla ➡️
Yes, exactly that, S3X-V and SCM20PSL with a decent amp.
Ah I see, i have the s3x-h which I think being “landscape” doesn’t suit my room. I’m thinking of trying the scm20 asl’s plus pmc two two 5’s.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #48
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cheu78's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyboy ➡️
Ah I see, i have the s3x-h which I think being “landscape” doesn’t suit my room. I’m thinking of trying the scm20 asl’s plus pmc two two 5’s.
pmc twotwo6 (as well as the result6) are much better than the twotwo5 imho.

In some ways I even preferred the result6 (as a monitor) to the twotwo6, although they do sound very good (or technically speaking “better/nicer” than the result6).

I felt that the twotwo5 were too much of a compromise.. the cabinet might be too small, at least that was my impression when I a/b’d them.

The scm20 is superior to all of these regarding the resolution and detail, althought the twotwo6 and result6 do have more lowend extension (due to their design nature).. so they feel more “full range”..
Great monitors!



Cheu
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #49
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 ➡️
pmc twotwo6 (as well as the result6) are much better than the twotwo5 imho.

In some ways I even preferred the result6 (as a monitor) to the twotwo6, although they do sound very good (or technically speaking “better/nicer” than the result6).

I felt that the twotwo5 were too much of a compromise.. the cabinet might be too small, at least that was my impression when I a/b’d them.

The scm20 is superior to all of these regarding the resolution and detail, althought the twotwo6 and result6 do have more lowend extension (due to their design nature).. so they feel more “full range”..
Great monitors!



Cheu
Silly me I meant to say two two 6 not 5! But I’ll be sure to check out the result 6 also
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #50
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cheu78's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyboy ➡️
Silly me I meant to say two two 6 not 5! But I’ll be sure to check out the result 6 also
Yes, do that..they’re very good monitors.

I felt that the twotwo series (twotwo 6 in this case) has too much “dsp” going on..

Don’t get me wrong, they are great monitors, but to me they feel “processed”.. kind of “smoothed out” in a way..
they’re still very detailed, decent mids, nice lowend..but they felt kinda “polished” for lack of better words..

The result6 in comparison might be a tad “thinner” overall (less “dense” or “thick”) and maybe a tad “pinched” in the xover freq range.. but felt more “true” somehow.. the twotwo sounds “nicer” (but this doesn’t mean the twotwo are less revealing.. just trying to describe what I’ve heard/felt).

If I had to get one between these, I’d probably choose the result6, and invest the saved money in a great 3way monitor (and using the result6 as a second reference, sort of a full range ns10..)
Or go for the scm20 (as a mixing tool, like an ns10 on steroid and then a great 3way).

Mind you the scm20 don’t have the extension than the 2way pmc’s have..

these are a sealed cabinet and they don’t go as low and don’t feel as “full” sounding, but they’re great mixing tools..
if used as the main speaker you might want to integrate them with a subwoofer pro’s 10 or 12 (maybe to use with a footswitch).

Let us know your findings..
These are just my opinions.. everyone and every room is different.

EDIT: wanted to add that the differencies described above are mainly only possible/hearable when a/b’ing at the same time.. otherwise the result6 don’t sound thin or pinched AT ALL.



Cheu

Last edited by cheu78; 1 week ago at 05:46 PM..
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #51
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 ➡️
Yes, do that..they’re very good monitors.

I felt that the twotwo series (twotwo 6 in this case) has too much “dsp” going on..

Don’t get me wrong, they are great monitors, but to me they feel “processed”.. kind of “smoothed out” in a way..
they’re still very detailed, decent mids, nice lowend..but they felt kinda “polished” for lack of better words..

The result6 in comparison might be a tad “thinner” overall (less “dense” or “thick”) and maybe a tad “pinched” in the xover freq range.. but felt more “true” somehow.. the twotwo sounds “nicer” (but this doesn’t mean the twotwo are less revealing.. just trying to describe what I’ve heard/felt).

If I had to get one between these, I’d probably choose the result6, and invest the saved money in a great 3way monitor (and using the result6 as a second reference, sort of a full range ns10..)
Or go for the scm20 (as a mixing tool, like an ns10 on steroid and then a great 3way).

Mind you the scm20 don’t have the extension than the 2way pmc’s have..

these are a sealed cabinet and they don’t go as low and don’t feel as “full” sounding, but they’re great mixing tools..
if used as the main speaker you might want to integrate them with a subwoofer pro’s 10 or 12 (maybe to use with a footswitch).

Let us know your findings..
These are just my opinions.. everyone and every room is different.

EDIT: wanted to add that the differencies described above are mainly only possible/hearable when a/b’ing at the same time.. otherwise the result6 don’t sound thin or pinched AT ALL.



Cheu
That lack of bass in the scm20 worries me, I may have to look at the scm25. I don’t really have the budget or room to buy the result6’s and another 3way.

I know it’s all subjective and I will arrange a demo at my local dealer when lockdown restrictions end.

Maybe my expectations of finding one set of nearfileds is unrealistic!
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #52
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cheu78's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyboy ➡️
That lack of bass in the scm20 worries me, I may have to look at the scm25. I don’t really have the budget or room to buy the result6’s and another 3way.

I know it’s all subjective and I will arrange a demo at my local dealer when lockdown restrictions end.

Maybe my expectations of finding one set of nearfileds is unrealistic!
well the scm25 are a 3way and costs almost 3 times as much as the "entry level" 2way Result6... can't compare them. apples&oranges.

But in all fairness the Result6 are probably one of the best 2way at its price.

the scm20 are a sealed cabinet, they go reasonably low for their size, BUT they don't have the "fullness" of the result6 (or other pmc's atl) of course.
they are a great mixing tool though.

Your plan is great, TEST them in your place and see what your ears (and your room) tell you.




Cheu
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #53
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Abdalla's Avatar
Is the mentioned "fullness" a bass prolonged and delayed but the transmission line of PMC? It is not a good thing for critical listening at all.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #54
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cheu78's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdalla ➡️
Is the mentioned "fullness" a bass prolonged and delayed but the transmission line of PMC? It is not a good thing for critical listening at all.
I’m a big atc and pmc fan.. i do like their sound and vision.

The scm20 are inherently a very different speaker than the result6 on so many levels..
what I wrote are the subjective and apparent differencies when using these models.
I can mix on scm20 without subs, no problem, but that might not be what other people want/need.
Btw the lowend of the result6 is very tight and punchy.. not the usual flabby/overbloated, one note lowend of some bass reflex designs. As said these are great speakers.

that said I find the result6 or the pmc atl models very good for critical listening (I’ve also used and heard MB2’s, BB5’s, IB1’s, IB2’s, result6, and maybe some others I don’t remember in top mix and mastering facilities in NY, LA and London, and Switzerland of course).

With every loudspeaker, at any price, there’s a set of compromises.. it’s a matter of chosing which ones works best for a specific vision and project. There’s no free lunch.

As said both atc and pmc are excellent monitors in my opinion. Can’t think of anything else I’d want to mix or master or even listen for that matter.



Cheu
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #55
Gear Nut
 
Abdalla's Avatar
So, if mentioning ATC's and PMC's together, why is there no measurement data is available for the latter ones?

Also, hearing anything bass-related from a speaker equipped with 6 inch driver would not be a good sign anyway. Only 4" will give you more "bass" probably.

As for SCM20's, it is quite a unique design, its bass driver is actually nothing to do with bass as its cone is soft and has no rigid border. It is a mid-range driver with extended to LF response by design (the moving assembly is heavier to support that).
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #56
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdalla ➡️
So, if mentioning ATC's and PMC's together, why is there no measurement data is available for the latter ones?

Also, hearing anything bass-related from a speaker equipped with 6 inch driver would not be a good sign anyway. Only 4" will give you more "bass" probably.

As for SCM20's, it is quite a unique design, its bass driver is actually nothing to do with bass as its cone is soft and has no rigid border. It is a mid-range driver with extended to LF response by design (the moving assembly is heavier to support that).
Hey Abdall,

Have you tried both the scm20 and 25’s? I’ve been in touch with atc and they’ve told me they are both phase coherent at 1m, I’m hoping to change my room around to get my listening position to 1.5m away.

Atc have told me the scm20 maybe better suited to a smaller room. However I do deal with a lot of low end material.

I’m hoping to try them all in my room if dealers etc are willing to lend me pairs.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #57
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 ➡️
If I had to get one between these, I’d probably choose the result6, and invest the saved money in a great 3way monitor (and using the result6 as a second reference, sort of a full range ns10..)





Cheu

This is exactly how I use my Result 6's. They essentially replaced my NS-10's without realizing it. I use them with my KH310's and once I get things rocking on the Neumanns, I swap over to the Results and focus on mid range, and overall transient response, exactly how I would use NS10s for years. They pair well with the KH310's as the Results are a brighter, smaller speaker, that pack a massive punch for it's size.

I enjoyed the twotwo6 very much, but I do think they're very expensive for what you get. Not saying it isn't worth the money, but if you're like me and like working with multiple pairs of speakers, the Results are well worth the money and allow you to have leftover cash to invest in a bigger, more full range monitor. I also personally prefer all analog guts in speakers.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #58
Gear Nut
 
Abdalla's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyboy ➡️
Hey Abdalla,

Have you tried both the scm20 and 25’s? I’ve been in touch with atc and they’ve told me they are both phase coherent at 1m, I’m hoping to change my room around to get my listening position to 1.5m away.
I have not had SCM25 but 1.5m should be fine, I am using PA65 at less than 1.5m and the coherency is there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyboy ➡️
Atc have told me the scm20 maybe better suited to a smaller room.
This is only true if you can not adjust the LF at the listener's position. Otherwise size does not matter.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #59
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdalla ➡️
I have not had SCM25 but 1.5m should be fine, I am using PA65 at less than 1.5m and the coherency is there.

This is only true if you can not adjust the LF at the listener's position. Otherwise size does not matter.
ATC says that because of the relationship between smaller room dimensions and bass. Why invest in a speaker that cannot produce lots of bass in your small room due to wavelength?
Brad
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #60
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puriteaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Lunde ➡️
ATC says that because of the relationship between smaller room dimensions and bass. Why invest in a speaker that cannot produce lots of bass in your small room due to wavelength?
Brad
Amazing then that headphones can produce bass.
https://www.khanacademy.org/science/...ction-of-sound

Keith
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