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Chandler REDD microphone
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Old 23rd November 2016
  #1
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gainreduction's Avatar
 
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Chandler REDD microphone
Don't know what I really feel about this concept of a micpreamp built into the microphone. I can see the point and at the same time I can imagine lots of situations where it is cumbersome. Like when you hang it up high and need to change the gain...

I can imagine it sounds sweet though. Anyone heard it yet?

http://chandlerlimited.com/redd-microphone/
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Old 23rd November 2016
  #2
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🎧 10 years
Michael Wagener praised it very highly when I spoke to him recently. Maybe he'll chime in here.
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Old 23rd November 2016
  #3
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brill bedroom's Avatar
 
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It is certainly an interesting idea-and interesting that they'd break out of their mode of recreating classic EMI period gear. I suppose the world can do with something besides another u-47 clone, though. Has anybody heard it yet or is it too new?
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Old 23rd November 2016
  #4
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Stitch333's Avatar
 
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Seems if one is to commit to the Chandler sound almost fully, this looks cool.
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Old 23rd November 2016
  #5
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I can see this being a great mobile option. Just throw together a really small interface like the Apogee One and this mic and not have to worry about lugging around a nice external preamp. Also great for someone with a small home studio that operates in one room or around their computer. I know a lot of guys that do smaller score work and jingles stuff that are going to love this. In that context, its actually a decent deal if you need one really good mic and a really good preamp.

On the other hand, I'm going to get really annoyed having to do gain tweaks if I'm using it on overheads or a high room mic or something along those lines. It does look like the output gain is on the power supply, so maybe that's a moot point.

That's about the only setback I can really think of. It would have been nice if they included a preamp bypass switch. I guess in theory you can just turn the internal preamp all the way down. Maybe a lot of the mic sound relies on the relationship between the two regardless of how much you utilize the gain on the internal preamp?

Interesting none the less. I've got my eye on some Flea stuff in the next year, maybe this could be an option?
Last edited by andersmv; 23rd November 2016 at 11:30 PM..
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Old 23rd November 2016
  #6
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RoundBadge's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
High quality capsule design wired straight to Redd amp?!
Bring it.
people who've heard it says it sounds big w/ velvety smooth open high end.
sounds like the 251 option Ive been searching for.
I'll hear it real soon.
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Old 24th November 2016
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gainreduction ➡️
Don't know what I really feel about this concept of a micpreamp built into the microphone. I can see the point and at the same time I can imagine lots of situations where it is cumbersome. Like when you hang it up high and need to change the gain...

I can imagine it sounds sweet though. Anyone heard it yet?

REDD Microphone | Chandler Limited
FWIW, and I hope this helps shed some light... The mic was tested at Abbey Road during development, from orchesteral scenarios on big stands to a Sting session and more, without issue reaching to make adjustments.

Side note... As you can imagine, the mic also went up against arguably the most historically significant microphones in Abbey Road's vault, including the studios' prized U47s, 48s, C12s etc... it was built to live on par with the greats, it hit the mark and the some.
  • Your removing another piece of gear from the chain, allowing for a more direct path and plugging directly into your converter is a benefit.
  • Being able to drive the line upfront right from the capsule, rather than at the end is another advantage.
  • You can use it with an external preamp simply by turning down the gain, in this config, it essentially acts like any other tube mic would being plugged into X preamp of your choice.
9
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Old 24th November 2016
  #8
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vincentvangogo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Apart from cutting out a couple of meters of cable, I'm a bit confused as to why this would sound any better than going into a REDD mic-pre direct.
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Old 24th November 2016 | Show parent
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] ➡️
Michael Wagener praised it very highly when I spoke to him recently. Maybe he'll chime in here.
Yes. Just had a very brief introduction to the REDD at WireWorld with female vocals. Absolutely loved it, warm and smooth. I had just sold an original absolutely mint 1951 U47 for a friend which sounded amazing (for just under $20,000). Listening to the Chandler I heard all the same qualities and the same vibe in the REDD. But we were also able to drive the built in pre-amp a bit harder to get that elevated harmonic content that I love in all the Chandler gear, but especially in the REDD.47 mic pre and RS124 compressor. Sound wise I think of you could imagine a great U47 combined with a C12. Mine is on order, no vacation in 2017
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Old 24th November 2016
  #10
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carloff's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm very curious about the mic, so there is concept no transformer between mic and pre yep?
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Old 24th November 2016 | Show parent
  #11
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Cathedral Guitar's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andersmv ➡️
I can see this being a great mobile option.
Seems like the internal mic amp has max gain of +33 dB, before going into distortion, so I'm not sure that would be enough gain on remotes without having a secondary preamp.
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Old 24th November 2016 | Show parent
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathedral Guitar ➡️
Seems like the internal mic amp has max gain of +33 dB, before going into distortion, so I'm not sure that would be enough gain on remotes without having a secondary preamp.
Plus the drive option, along with the level control on the power supply. I bet it's capable of putting out around 50 dB.
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Old 24th November 2016 | Show parent
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo ➡️
Apart from cutting out a couple of meters of cable, I'm a bit confused as to why this would sound any better than going into a REDD mic-pre direct.
I don't really know, but it would seem to me that integrating those amps just might very well allow for a bit more simplification of the signal path than simply the elimination of a mic-level cable.
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Old 24th November 2016 | Show parent
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andersmv ➡️
Plus the drive option, along with the level control on the power supply. I bet it's capable of putting out around 50 dB.
I know we are reading between the lines here, but when Chandler says this:

"providing nine gain selections, from +4 to +33db in the ‘NORM’ position, extended gain and punch in ‘DRIVE’ mode for more tonal and coloration possibilities,"

I interpret that to mean you have +33 dB of clean gain.
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Old 24th November 2016
  #15
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Squawk's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Wow, very forward thinking! Love it.
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Old 24th November 2016 | Show parent
  #16
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RoundBadge's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathedral Guitar ➡️
I know we are reading between the lines here, but when Chandler says this:

"providing nine gain selections, from +4 to +33db in the ‘NORM’ position, extended gain and punch in ‘DRIVE’ mode for more tonal and coloration possibilities,"

I interpret that to mean you have +33 dB of clean gain.
I think the "drive" mode is kinda similar to the "fuse" mode on the rs124.
A little more in your face/ aggro.
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Old 25th November 2016
  #17
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DomiBabi's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I'm not sure if I'm on board with this one yet.

Is the built in pre identical in parts and power to the current standalone Chandler REDD pre?

How is the mic made? Where are the parts sourced from? More details on the mic itself would answer a lot of questions... capsule, body, grill, power, etc.

I'm also still unsure about the mic's inspiration and how it fits in with or emulates the EMI legacy gear. What mic is it based on?

Can the pre be used with a different mic if I want? Will the mic be available without the pre if I already own one?
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Old 26th November 2016
  #18
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jono_3's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
They use the mic in the REDD preamp demo video. I saw it in another recent video IIRC as well but don't remember what product it was for.
Last edited by jono_3; 28th November 2016 at 08:52 AM..
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Old 27th November 2016 | Show parent
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DomiBabi ➡️
I'm not sure if I'm on board with this one yet.

How is the mic made? Where are the parts sourced from? More details on the mic itself would answer a lot of questions... capsule, body, grill, power, etc.
considering everything in the Chandler line is made in Iowa using premium type parts, it's safe to say the mic is built the same way

Quote:
Originally Posted by DomiBabi ➡️

I'm also still unsure about the mic's inspiration and how it fits in with or emulates the EMI legacy gear. What mic is it based on?
The Redd47 provides the basis of the tube circuitry for the mic. Every tube mic has a tube amplifier circuit---in this case, the Redd47 is the basis of the microphones tube circuitry. It's not based on any vintage mic, but it adapts the vintage EMI Redd47 to build a new tube mic. The product announcement detailed all of this out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DomiBabi ➡️

Can the pre be used with a different mic if I want? Will the mic be available without the pre if I already own one?
It doesn't look like you'd be able to do that any more than you could use a U47's power supply as a mic preamp. Considering the Redd47 provides the basis of the microphone itself, the microphone can't be separated from the Redd47 circuit. The Redd47 is the tube circuit, and it can be ran to either put out traditional mic output levels and be fed into a traditional mic amp, or it can put out a conventional post mic amp level +40, +50, et al, therefore negating the need for a mic amp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DomiBabi ➡️
I'm not sure if I'm on board with this one yet.
I am. I've used condensers that put out so much level that you barely need a preamp, this simply takes that concept further.

The Redd47 is a great tube circuit. Adapting that circuit to be the circuitry within a tube condenser microphone is a really interesting way to incorporate a vintage tube design into a modern condenser.

I wouldn't get too caught up in trying to find a problem with everything. The fact that it has actually been put through its paces by people at Abbey Road who know what the hell they're doing suggests that it was a carefully thought out product. It seems that the point of the product wasn't to create another vintage mic clone that everyone would complain doesn't sound like the original, but to incorporate classic EMI circuitry into a new mic design----which is why EMI declared it their first new mic design in over 50 years.
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Old 27th November 2016 | Show parent
  #20
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DomiBabi's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LobCity ➡️
considering everything in the Chandler line is made in Iowa using premium type parts, it's safe to say the mic is built the same way



The Redd47 provides the basis of the tube circuitry for the mic. Every tube mic has a tube amplifier circuit---in this case, the Redd47 is the basis of the microphones tube circuitry. It's not based on any vintage mic, but it adapts the vintage EMI Redd47 to build a new tube mic. The product announcement detailed all of this out.




It doesn't look like you'd be able to do that any more than you could use a U47's power supply as a mic preamp. Considering the Redd47 provides the basis of the microphone itself, the microphone can't be separated from the Redd47 circuit. The Redd47 is the tube circuit, and it can be ran to either put out traditional mic output levels and be fed into a traditional mic amp, or it can put out a conventional post mic amp level +40, +50, et al, therefore negating the need for a mic amp.



I am. I've used condensers that put out so much level that you barely need a preamp, this simply takes that concept further.

The Redd47 is a great tube circuit. Adapting that circuit to be the circuitry within a tube condenser microphone is a really interesting way to incorporate a vintage tube design into a modern condenser.

I wouldn't get too caught up in trying to find a problem with everything. The fact that it has actually been put through its paces by people at Abbey Road who know what the hell they're doing suggests that it was a carefully thought out product. It seems that the point of the product wasn't to create another vintage mic clone that everyone would complain doesn't sound like the original, but to incorporate classic EMI circuitry into a new mic design----which is why EMI declared it their first new mic design in over 50 years.
I know about Chandler, and own a bunch of their gear. Yes, I'm sure it will be well made. And no, I'm not trying to find a problem with it... there are just a few things I'd like to know before I (most likely) buy one.

I'd really like more info on the actual capsule and similarities/differences to the u48/47s that it builds upon. Also, on how the pre built into the mic differs from the redd.47 rack I already have.

Truth be told, this is the most exciting product (to me) released in the last year. Sorry if I came off as a downer.
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Old 28th November 2016 | Show parent
  #21
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1 Review written
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DomiBabi ➡️
I know about Chandler, and own a bunch of their gear. Yes, I'm sure it will be well made. And no, I'm not trying to find a problem with it... there are just a few things I'd like to know before I (most likely) buy one.

I'd really like more info on the actual capsule and similarities/differences to the u48/47s that it builds upon. Also, on how the pre built into the mic differs from the redd.47 rack I already have.

Truth be told, this is the most exciting product (to me) released in the last year. Sorry if I came off as a downer.
No, i'm definitely with you in that it seems the product announcement left a bit of detail out, details which of course people will want to know. Usually Chandler gives very technical explanations of how things are working. At this point though, I trust that if Chandler has brought a new tube mic to market in collaboration with Abbey Road, then it's been done well.

I like the price as well. It's a tad higher than i'd like to go, but I think Chandler played their hand well by not going into that upward 6k price range where they'd be competing with the vintage mic market or the more inaccessible boutique builders like telefunken, bock, et al.

So, it's 4.5k. Would be a huge purchase for me, so I also want to know exactly what I am getting into for that price.

I like the U47 style body and grill, I like the classic EMI grey, and I like that Chandler went with the discrete white little devil style logo. Basically, the concept of a condenser rooted in the Redd47 tube circuit has me more interested than concerned.
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Old 28th November 2016 | Show parent
  #22
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LobCity ➡️
No, i'm definitely with you in that it seems the product announcement left a bit of detail out, details which of course people will want to know. Usually Chandler gives very technical explanations of how things are working. At this point though, I trust that if Chandler has brought a new tube mic to market in collaboration with Abbey Road, then it's been done well.

I like the price as well. It's a tad higher than i'd like to go, but I think Chandler played their hand well by not going into that upward 6k price range where they'd be competing with the vintage mic market or the more inaccessible boutique builders like telefunken, bock, et al.

So, it's 4.5k. Would be a huge purchase for me, so I also want to know exactly what I am getting into for that price.

I like the U47 style body and grill, I like the classic EMI grey, and I like that Chandler went with the discrete white little devil style logo. Basically, the concept of a condenser rooted in the Redd47 tube circuit has me more interested than concerned.
Yea. The u47 body with EMI design flourishes certainly looks the part.

Since I have the standalone pre, im more interested in the mic itself. Platinum on the diaphragm(s)? Material and mounting? What type of capsule? Thickness? Where are they sourced? By whom? Can I see a plot and chart? I'm excited.
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Old 28th November 2016 | Show parent
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DomiBabi ➡️
Yea. The u47 body with EMI design flourishes certainly looks the part.

Since I have the standalone pre, im more interested in the mic itself. Platinum on the diaphragm(s)? Material and mounting? What type of capsule? Thickness? Where are they sourced? By whom? Can I see a plot and chart? I'm excited.
I like the omni option for sure.
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Old 30th November 2016 | Show parent
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DomiBabi ➡️
Yea. The u47 body with EMI design flourishes certainly looks the part.

Since I have the standalone pre, im more interested in the mic itself. Platinum on the diaphragm(s)? Material and mounting? What type of capsule? Thickness? Where are they sourced? By whom? Can I see a plot and chart? I'm excited.
No disrespect, but to be honest, If I designed this mic, I don't think I would care to share how I did it or what mounts and parts and membrane thickness I used on the capsule.

I hear you on looking at a frequency graph, but that only shows you what you can expect a device, that doesn't really tell you anything about its "vibe". Just saying...

But, I would not want to share custom design details here or anywhere - Because People copy things….they don't do their own work anymore. They don't listen…they steal...I remember when Chameleon Labs tried to rip off Wade's stuff before.

Im sure someone will buy one and take it all apart rather than using it. No wonder Wade epoxies his op amps. His stuff is original and unique and this mic is no different, obviously.

Im not trying to be a hard ass…but I fail to see the relevance in these types of requests from manufacturers who build specialized gear.

Bottom line…the Copiers try and become something they are not. Specialized gear always has custom components.

Personally, I am also excited for this new Chandler mic -- because it seems like it is bread from Wade's listening and analysis. Which I really admire.


peace
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Old 30th November 2016
  #25
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🎧 5 years
I had planned for a third Flea, 48, but do want to get my hands/vocalists on this intriguing/promising mic. I have inquiries out on availability as I have a bit of a session scheduling issue and have been advised that hopefully within the next few weeks there will be better information on availability.

I prefer Figure of 8 as an option with Cardioid vs Omni for instruments but I recently picked up an AEA R88 mk2 that does amazing Figure of 8 and MS so I can live with the omission provided this mic is 90% as good as quotes given by the folks at Abbey Road.

Lead time is likely an issue for my Dec sessions regardless of Flea or Chandler decision so I will likely cover. I would love to shoot them out but did not see something like the REDD Mic coming, have January commitments and am not sure I can delay a mic purchase long enough to allow for the diligence.

As I am finally slowing my mic purchases by virtue of learning exactly what I love and need and thinning the herd, this is a big decision and likely my only LDC purchase through 2017. Still, this is a "first-world" "problem" and either will be a great addition.
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Old 30th November 2016 | Show parent
  #26
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell ➡️
But, I would not want to share custom design details here or anywhere - Because People copy things….they don't do their own work anymore. They don't listen…they steal...I remember when Chameleon Labs tried to rip off Wade's stuff before.

Im not trying to be a hard ass…but I fail to see the relevance in these types of requests from manufacturers who build specialized gear.

Bottom line…the Copiers try and become something they are not. Specialized gear always has custom components.

peace
I get what you are saying for sure...

I'd hate to see someone rip him off. Wade's stuff is great, and him and his team deserve to make a living doing what they love.

Here's where my point differs:

knowledge is power. While it is true that specs and country of origin don't always dictate quality or better sound...

It's great knowledge for the informed consumer, and guys who value authenticity.

Knowing things like material choices, manufacture, etc... It call tell a lot about a mic and the folks building it... and Chandler has never released a mic before.

BTW, MANY of these high end mic manufacturers make a it a point to brag about those details, ie. FLEA, Wunder, Audio Technica, AEA, etc. It's not like everyone else isn't doing it...

Knowing those details won't make it any easier to rip anyone off, as I'm also sure this mic is heavily influenced by others that came before it. I'd bet money that this isn't a 100% brand new design that shares no similarities to another famous mic. Jeez... even the amplifier circuit is a take on a clone of a converted amplifier from over 40 years ago...

for realz?
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Old 2nd December 2016 | Show parent
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DomiBabi ➡️
I get what you are saying for sure...

BTW, MANY of these high end mic manufacturers make a it a point to brag about those details, ie. FLEA, Wunder, Audio Technica, AEA, etc. It's not like everyone else isn't doing it...
Those guys build clones, or modified clones, there's nothing to protect, so the selling point is that it's done well, rather than done uniquely, because it's not unique to copy a 47, 44, et al. The selling point for cloners is authenticity, and showing off specs is the best way to do that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DomiBabi ➡️
I get what you are saying for sure...

as I'm also sure this mic is heavily influenced by others that came before it. I'd bet money that this isn't a 100% brand new design that shares no similarities to another famous mic.
That's just speculation. What mic would you presume it is heavily influenced by?


Quote:
Originally Posted by DomiBabi ➡️
Jeez... even the amplifier circuit is a take on a clone of a converted amplifier from over 40 years ago...
Yet, in over 50 years, no one has bothered to marry that circuit to a capsule. Also, it's an "Abbey Road / EMI" collaboration. Is their best tube circuit supposed to be off limits? We don't even know the extent of how similar the mic circuit is to the stand alone Redd47 circuit, and what classic mic uses a platinum capsule? I know of a few modern mics that do. Would Wade go through the patent process for a mic that was mostly a clone of something else? That's not a cheap undertaking, and if indeed he has a patent pending, then naturally he'll be reluctant to divulge too much info.
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Old 2nd December 2016 | Show parent
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LobCity ➡️
Those guys build clones, or modified clones, there's nothing to protect, so the selling point is that it's done well, rather than done uniquely, because it's not unique to copy a 47, 44, et al. The selling point for cloners is authenticity, and showing off specs is the best way to do that.




That's just speculation. What mic would you presume it is heavily influenced by?




Yet, in over 50 years, no one has bothered to marry that circuit to a capsule. Also, it's an "Abbey Road / EMI" collaboration. Is their best tube circuit supposed to be off limits? We don't even know the extent of how similar the mic circuit is to the stand alone Redd47 circuit, and what classic mic uses a platinum capsule? I know of a few modern mics that do. Would Wade go through the patent process for a mic that was mostly a clone of something else? That's not a cheap undertaking, and if indeed he has a patent pending, then naturally he'll be reluctant to divulge too much info.

Yes. Those other guys are cloners; sort of. And you are right to point out the difference between them and a new mic.

My assumption comes from the mic body, and also that U48/47s were the popular mics of the REDD era.

As for platinum capsules, you are also correct. I can't personally think of any classic mics that used them...
... but I can think of at least 3 different u47 clones that do. If wade is making these capsules in-house, fine. He shouldn't have to release data. But if they are being manufactured from someplace like LUKE Audio I think people have a right to know.
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Old 2nd December 2016
  #29
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Price?
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Old 2nd December 2016 | Show parent
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondog007 ➡️
Price?
$4499 @ Sweetwater...
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