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Lexicon 300, PCM70, Eventide 7500
Old 24th April 2016
  #1
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Lexicon 300, PCM70, Eventide 7500

Outside of the Bricasti which I don't currently own, but love, I've been mostly software on reverb and FX the last several years. Have a friend looking to part with a Lexicon 300 (with the front panel controls), a PCM70 and an Eventide 7500. Are these boxes a cut above what can be done with software nowadays or even relevant?

Thanks!
Old 24th April 2016
  #2
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Hardware is always a cut above plugins.
Old 24th April 2016
  #3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
All three are great reverbs which can make you happy for many years (as long as they are working).
Old 25th April 2016
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Relab LX480 and ValhallaShimmer

Last edited by Voyage.One; 30th April 2016 at 03:43 AM.. Reason: Damn autocorrect
Old 25th April 2016
  #5
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IanBSC's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
It's hard to beat that Eventide 7500. The Lex stuff is probably duplicated algorithm-wise these days, but hardware always sounds different. The PCM70 is a classic.
Old 25th April 2016
  #6
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smackmastering's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
still have my PCM70 in the rack patched up.

Never could find a plugin to replace it. Waves RenVerb is close with its Titled Room patch, but the hardware unit just has a sound to it.
Old 25th April 2016
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
two 70's here... nothing comes close. relax 480 kind of is disappointing but it is useable for non essential elements but isn't that the point? so yeah thumbs down. the uad 224 (even though it's not a 224x) really is disappointing compared to a hardware 224x.

to date and to my own personal taste, the only useable ITB reverbs that are good are waves rverb, altiverb, and uad emt 140. the rverb in particular has a more pleasant and unique sound compared to the newer attempts to "emulate"

emulations are kind of corny in my opinion, better to utilize ITB to do new stuff. Altiverb is still the most overall useable and best "desert island" itb reverb. It's gear emulations are quite good too. the 480 on it sounds way better as far as practical use than the relab. again, this is all to my ears. YMMV.
Old 25th April 2016
  #8
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Prabha's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I have the opposite opinion!

The PCM70 is so noisy, that is useless in some delicate program.

And the Relab 480 is really nice!

Go figure....
Old 25th April 2016
  #9
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
for delicate program there is bricasti


altiverb is real nice especially the space emulations. the new bob clearmountain chambers are really cool as well.
Old 26th April 2016 | Show parent
  #10
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nevefreak's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackmastering ➑️
still have my PCM70 in the rack patched up.

Never could find a plugin to replace it.
As far as reverb goes, relab LX480 is light years better than pcm70. IMO relab along with the new eventide Anthology plugs, renders digital based hardware obsolete. PCM is noisy and very limited functionally, not to mention the mono input makes it basically useless these days compared to the right plugs. By lexicon standards the PCM70 was considered low end in 1985. That was 30 years ago. It's amazing to me people still use them.
Old 26th April 2016
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
OP - all 3 boxes are better than any software reverbs at the moment. Have been waiting for software reverbs to catch up for very long time, gave up at this point. Good luck with your decision.
Old 26th April 2016 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip1 ➑️
OP - all 3 boxes are better than any software reverbs at the moment. Have been waiting for software reverbs to catch up for very long time, gave up at this point. Good luck with your decision.
Completely agree. Own a Lex 300 / PCM70 and 2 Eventides. The sense of depth and size is never the same but for me the biggest difference with the boxes is always how they layer and sit in the mix compared to even the most hyped plugins today. It really is something you need to experiment with and hear for yourself in your own mixes. The plugins always seem to be either too much or too little and never quite blend into the tracks quite like the hardware does. Sticking saturation plugs before/after the reverb plugs doesn't close this gap either.

As for waiting for ITB reverbs to catch up, I hear you. Been there and I give up also. In 2016 it still blows my mind what a processor from the early 80's can do in a mix in comparison to the amazing algorithms we have today. Then again most will put it down to the magic and the secret sauce in the analog sections/converters of the boxes and not the reverb itself.
Old 26th April 2016 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Nut
 
javiceres's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevefreak ➑️
As far as reverb goes, relab LX480 is light years better than pcm70. IMO relab along with the new eventide Anthology plugs, renders digital based hardware obsolete. PCM is noisy and very limited functionally, not to mention the mono input makes it basically useless these days compared to the right plugs. By lexicon standards the PCM70 was considered low end in 1985. That was 30 years ago. It's amazing to me people still use them.
Well, low end of Ferrari is not low end-ish after all.
Eventides? No Eventide plug-in can touch what a 7500 can do. To this day and probably many years to come. It's such an open system...
Old 26th April 2016 | Show parent
  #14
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smackmastering's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Still use it and quite happy using it.

As for the mono input, doesn't bother me. A snare track is mono as well as the 2 Overhead Mic tracks on my console.

At the end of the day, they are all tools. We all use the tools that we feel the most comfortable with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevefreak ➑️
As far as reverb goes, relab LX480 is light years better than pcm70. IMO relab along with the new eventide Anthology plugs, renders digital based hardware obsolete. PCM is noisy and very limited functionally, not to mention the mono input makes it basically useless these days compared to the right plugs. By lexicon standards the PCM70 was considered low end in 1985. That was 30 years ago. It's amazing to me people still use them.
Old 26th April 2016 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevefreak ➑️
to mention the mono input makes it basically useless these days
Oh no! my rack is full of useless gear.
Old 26th April 2016
  #16
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
These are three different Reverb and Effects units which quite simply modelled plug ins can not touch, plug ins are great convenience tools though the spatial quality of the hardware and dedicated processing even with faults is what will give you that dimensional everlasting sound, you can't take plug ins with you, nor use them save in certain circumstances etc.
Hardware is totally open ended, and of each processor all are still Ble to be fixed, the PCM 70 could crap out, so offer low, the star is fading due to nos parts unless you've got a spare unit to salvage, the 300/M will last another 20 years when Relab Lx is no longer functional and the 7500 as time domain processing is simply stunning!

There is ten to fifteen years worth of life, learning sounds and programs to create here, better yet they are not redundant nor will be, nothing has replaced them, and emulations while fine as an Aux instance certainly could not compete - Right price, buy them, it's a win win scenario!
Old 26th April 2016 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by javiceres ➑️
Well, low end of Ferrari is not low end-ish after all.
Eventides? No Eventide plug-in can touch what a 7500 can do. To this day and probably many years to come. It's such an open system...
Indeed true, if Vsig doesn't kill you, natural causes will so remember your buying a learning and creative enhancement system here, not factory fed Recycled Algos to newbie guitar and Synth guys, skip the daw generation to real hardware the results will enhance you 1000 times over!
Old 26th April 2016 | Show parent
  #18
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nevefreak's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiofool ➑️
Oh no! my rack is full of useless gear.
you will grow out of that phase eventually
Old 26th April 2016 | Show parent
  #19
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nevefreak's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by javiceres ➑️
No Eventide plug-in can touch what a 7500 can do.
maybe not, but the eventide plugs are better than a pcm 70 or any of those cheap lexicon units.
+ anything after h3000 sounds thin to my ears. Sure there are some amazing capabilities in the newer units
And there should be, what year is this? It depends one how far you want to take effects in mixes.
PCM70 is sort of crappy, that's all I'm saying. Anthology and LX480 are light years better than PCM 70
plus you have instances. PCM70 is one stereo unit. What good is that? What is anyone going to use that on?
They are fine in a live rig or a guitar rack. Not so much for production. If you mix OTB then maybe they are good cheap effect to use on backup vocals or synths something since you need many channels.
Old 27th April 2016 | Show parent
  #20
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevefreak ➑️
maybe not, but the eventide plugs are better than a pcm 70 or any of those cheap lexicon units.
+ anything after h3000 sounds thin to my ears. Sure there are some amazing capabilities in the newer units
And there should be, what year is this? It depends one how far you want to take effects in mixes.
PCM70 is sort of crappy, that's all I'm saying. Anthology and LX480 are light years better than PCM 70
plus you have instances. PCM70 is one stereo unit. What good is that? What is anyone going to use that on?
They are fine in a live rig or a guitar rack. Not so much for production. If you mix OTB then maybe they are good cheap effect to use on backup vocals or synths something since you need many channels.
Your confused ideas about Plugins and HW is very amusing.
Maybe you should change your name to Pluginfreak and stop posting in the high-end community.
Old 27th April 2016
  #21
Gear Nut
 
Jonsos's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Get all three ..... Between them and combined they cover a lot of reverb / ambience ground .... You will not regret it .... If budget dictates .... The 7600 and 300 together make a superb combo
Old 27th April 2016
  #22
Gear Nut
 
Jonsos's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
And most definately relevant ....
Old 27th April 2016 | Show parent
  #23
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Motoxxx's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiofool ➑️
Your confused ideas about Plugins and HW is very amusing.
Maybe you should change your name to Pluginfreak and stop posting in the high-end community.
LOL...I was sort of thinking the same thing.

I have owned so many Lexicon and Eventide boxes over the years that I can't count. The PCM 70 is a fine unit and was not at the top of the Lexicon line at the time but still very usable. Back in the day when that processor was out there were no other cheap Lexicon models like the MPX, Alex, Reflex etc....I think the LXP stuff actually came out AFTER the PCM 70 production was done but not sure.

The Lexicon 300 is so usable today. I would say that anyone saying it is obsolete and replaced with a plugin has never used one.
Old 28th April 2016 | Show parent
  #24
Lives for gear
 
nevefreak's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiofool ➑️
Your confused ideas about Plugins and HW is very amusing.
Maybe you should change your name to Pluginfreak and stop posting in the high-end community.
You are discussing PCM70 in highend? they were never high end, not even in 1985.

I actually hate virtually all plugins. The only 2 plugs I like are anthology and relab. I don't even like the sound of lexicon's recent plugin offerings. I won't even use a plugin compressor. Let alone a virtual console plug. I hate plugs

Sorry I just think PCM70 is hilariously bad.
Old 28th April 2016 | Show parent
  #25
Lives for gear
 
nevefreak's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoxxx ➑️

I think the LXP stuff actually came out AFTER the PCM 70 production was done but not sure.
it came out about 6 years after pcm 70. PCM 70 is not quite that bad though. I think LXP stuff is free these days it was so bad.. At least you can put a PCM70 in a live guitar rig for club shows. LXP are not good for anything and they weren't in 1990 either. How many quadraverbs have you owned?
Old 28th April 2016
  #26
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AuldLangSine's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
FWIW, the 1986 list price of the PCM70 in today's dollars is five thousand US dollars. That's not what most people think of as low end. There is some perspective.

I love Lexicon stuff. It works for me. I have a PCM70 and a 224XL all in perfect condition, having been serviced by Beamish Electronics in Ohio.

Every time I record my vocals, I use a tube mic into nice preamp-- sure, that's important, but after the comp it goes into a tiny bit of PCM42 delay, then the PCM70 on plate. I just love the sound I get.

We went through this PCM70 "good or not" in some other threads. IMHO, people that say they sound less than fabulous may have ones that need servicing. At this stage they are 30 years old. But maybe we just like to hear different things. I don't like super clean reverbs because they sound sterile to me. Others may think that's an awesome sound.
Old 28th April 2016
  #27
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Yep, I'd concur with getting them all, especially if it's a great deal.

My personal digital FX combo is Orville, H3000 D/SE, PCM-92, PCM-70, PCM-42, SDD-2000 and recently an M7.

They're ALL in use and ALL staying.

So are my Waves and Sound Toys bundles, among others.

It it was a choice of the above hardware vs my picks for software FX, based upon my experience with both, I'd chose the hardware without hesitation.

Old 28th April 2016
  #28
Gear Maniac
 
Jimmy Makhaisingh's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Bought my Lexicon 300 version 3.5 today, $1050. Excellent condition! It has some user spots, but very, i mean very minimal.
The studio where I bought it, had it in a rack since the bought it.

The sound is amazing !!!

Just need some more information on programming presets.

Looking for documentation, about running the audio via aes/ebu and analog..
Or like two effects thru its outputs...

All tips are welcome!
Old 28th April 2016
  #29
Gear Nut
 
javiceres's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
BTW I'm not saying that Eventide Plugins lack quality, I've only used the UltraChannel (mostly for wicked stuff) and so I can't really comment. I'd bet they are entirelly usable and perfectly good sounding.
Old 28th April 2016 | Show parent
  #30
Gear Nut
 
javiceres's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Makhaisingh ➑️
Bought my Lexicon 300 version 3.5 today, $1050. Excellent condition! It has some user spots, but very, i mean very minimal.
The studio where I bought it, had it in a rack since the bought it.

The sound is amazing !!!

All tips are welcome!
Congrats. I've checked the manual just for fun and seems an utterly atractive unit. Very nice algorythms.
I'd really like to try the non reverb side of the unit to see how capable it is (taking for granted the quality of the verbs in it).
Please let us know your impressions.
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