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Lexicon 300, PCM70, Eventide 7500
Old 2nd May 2016 | Show parent
  #61
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Lots of interesting tangents going on in this thread (I had to re-read the original post to see what the question was LOL). OP, just arrange a time to kick the tires of the units with some of your reference tracks. Spending a little time experimenting will give you a fairly good idea of whether the hardware units will be of use to you. Don't worry about what anyone else is using, concentrate on how it sounds to you and what you can do with it.

Since someone mentioned Deltalab, I'm still loving my old DL-2 Acousticomputer. Wow the sounds I can get out of that fossil but you have to be able to use your ears and creativity as it has no presets / parameter storage (just toggle switches and knobs). As for Lexicons, I have a PCM70 (its got it's nice tricks) but nowdays it's probably a calculated risk to grab an older more expensive Lexicon due to service (If the price is low enough that might not matter much).

There is a magic that happens when you use outboard physical controls. You don't use your eyes to make audio decisions. It's just a simplified feedback loop like when an instrumentalist just plays the axe without looking at it. Thus lots of old gear using that feature alone can fulfill the adage, if it sounds good, then it is good.
Old 2nd May 2016 | Show parent
  #62
Lives for gear
 
Motoxxx's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr ➡️
Lots of interesting tangents going on in this thread (I had to re-read the original post to see what the question was LOL). OP, just arrange a time to kick the tires of the units with some of your reference tracks. Spending a little time experimenting will give you a fairly good idea of whether the hardware units will be of use to you. Don't worry about what anyone else is using, concentrate on how it sounds to you and what you can do with it.

Since someone mentioned Deltalab, I'm still loving my old DL-2 Acousticomputer. Wow the sounds I can get out of that fossil but you have to be able to use your ears and creativity as it has no presets / parameter storage (just toggle switches and knobs). As for Lexicons, I have a PCM70 (its got it's nice tricks) but nowdays it's probably a calculated risk to grab an older more expensive Lexicon due to service (If the price is low enough that might not matter much).

There is a magic that happens when you use outboard physical controls. You don't use your eyes to make audio decisions. It's just a simplified feedback loop like when an instrumentalist just plays the axe without looking at it. Thus lots of old gear using that feature alone can fulfill the adage, if it sounds good, then it is good.
Loved the old Delta Lab delays. Found one in a pawn shop the other day and bought it for $10! Sold it to my buddy for his guitar rig for $50! That thing sounds awesome!

I always try to use my outboard FX and print them. So much more enjoyable to use the hardware versus a plug in of any kind.
Old 4th May 2016
  #63
Lives for gear
 
italo de angelis's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Kenny M

get the 300 and the DSP7500.
Several PCM structures are available on the 7500 factory presets as I added them to the unit.
You will live in peace for decades... no plugs come even close to them and the level of interactive structures you get in the 7500 is just non_existent in the plugs world.
Plus... it's an open platform... so you can create anything you like.

In time you may enjoy adding a PCM70 or 81, another spectacular unit IF well programmed.

Yours is the listening and all the fun:
Italo de Angelis

Old 4th May 2016 | Show parent
  #64
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis ➡️
Kenny M

get the 300 and the DSP7500.
Several PCM structures are available on the 7500 factory presets as I added them to the unit.
You will live in peace for decades... no plugs come even close to them and the level of interactive structures you get in the 7500 is just non_existent in the plugs world.
Plus... it's an open platform... so you can create anything you like.

In time you may enjoy adding a PCM70 or 81, another spectacular unit IF well programmed.

Yours is the listening and all the fun:
Italo de Angelis


See.....you've just been hit up by an Ex Eventide Programmer who designed the presets, banks and registers millions enjoy, use and add as effects on tracks every day!

The difference? This man knows, Voltage goes in one end - Voltage comes out the other, when your talking numerically ripped off Algorithims and plug Ins, the numeric margin for error as astonishing, you might, might, get lucky, though even then you internal and quantifiable numeric Farked up Plug, will spit out more Data errors then a 4 year old doing high end Physics etc!

When Plug in designers can model Voltage, Transformers, Slew rates, and VCA, FET and PWM scenarios that outboard gear utilises then, just maybe, Hardware might die, until then, it's a game a degrees,band hardware simply gets you closer, faster, and with spatial dimensions that are not pancake flat!

As far as thisvNevefreak guy goes? Hey crackpots are always trying to get a word up to feel a sense of, bought, owned, **** unit etc! Though a Nevefreak using Plug ins sounds very odd to me? I mean all those precious Neve Trafos etc, why not enhance them with great outboard? Oh I forgot he does....he uses a PCM-42 as bloody Limiter?

God help me, if there is not enough myth on these forums?

TLB
Old 4th May 2016 | Show parent
  #65
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoxxx ➡️
Loved the old Delta Lab delays. Found one in a pawn shop the other day and bought it for $10! Sold it to my buddy for his guitar rig for $50! That thing sounds awesome!

I always try to use my outboard FX and print them. So much more enjoyable to use the hardware versus a plug in of any kind.
That's it....these Deltas are gold, the spit out the most amazing stuff, apart from that if I price then....boom they'll hit the roof, so price talk here helps no one!
Great unit though! I fully agree.

TLB
Old 6th October 2016 | Show parent
  #66
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevefreak ➡️
lol..... no it was Timothy "Tiled" Room and Peter "Ping Pong" delay and there was this women engineer.. I think her name was Gisele Constant Density Plate?? she was a little slow ya know? and oh yeah this dude called William "Billy" "Beaver" Road....
Did anyone mention "Bob Selling Plate, Carne's Can Shift? Guess that stuff dies when "Larry Long Tail and Gary Has "Hall" we're making the Dr G-Gated Room Delays and PrimeTimes" ......and who's Mr FDN Networking to sell this Reverb crap!
Lol...!
Old 7th October 2016 | Show parent
  #67
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevefreak ➡️
perhaps implementation??

They use the same chip so they must be the same... lol

I mean jeez the original lex 224 was 12 bit yet it's better than pcm 70.. go figure?? must have been 'implementation', eeeh?

wow... Thanks for the info though. I think you need to chill, really... you do
Yeah....like they use the same Belclare, Stives or Carnhill transformer so hey they must be HUGE!

Good gracious me!
Old 23rd April 2017 | Show parent
  #68
Lives for gear
 
charles chocula's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by seancostello ➡️
Meanwhile, the H3000 uses a similar interface to the Lex M300 (2 line LED display, rotary dial, some push buttons, numerical keypad), and yet the H3000 interface is a JOY to use.
I agree. I have both- although I haven't given it much thought, the major factor for me is the way the Eventide team implemented the rotary dial. Superb! And not too many function buttons! It's evident in similar Lexicin gear that it isn't a universal problem for them. For instance, I have a PCM 81 that is dead easy to get around on. Mind you, operation manuals are an anathema to my American strain of ADHD, so perhaps that Ismail a factor. I must say, the absolute king of easy-peazy is the Eventide 2016. WOW! If all interfaces were as genius as these!

I suppose I ought to get a 224xl with the LARC, because- now correct me if I make mistaken- a single LARC will operate two Lexicon units simultaneously? The LARC is my jam. That's the main reason I got the Relab 480- I had never used one, but it was as if I were an 80s engineer in another lifetime. Took to it like I took to swimming and water skiing. Alas, the 300 is not what I would describe as "intuitive". It's a bit like that "Silicon Valley" scene where after only testing the software on fellow software engineers, it's then tested on a control group.

Old 23rd April 2017
  #69
Lives for gear
 
Oldone's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
A few hours with the Lex 300 manual and it all becomes clear. Laborsome but clear. Going off road from a preset is the approach to take. There is a lot of complexity which tends to remain undiscovered due to the interface challenges but if you start with a preset and dial it in, it's more approachable. Mine's not going anywhere soon as the sound is just remarkable and the price in today's market is also remarkable. Nothing in plugins I've used comes close to the clarity and layering ability in a track. It just sits there creating atmosphere vs popping up behind a mix rather indistinct like say the UAD 224, which is a really good plugin by the way but not on par. Rather 2D vs 3D is the closest way to describe the difference.
Old 24th April 2017 | Show parent
  #70
Lives for gear
 
nednerd's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by charles chocula ➡️
I suppose I ought to get a 224xl with the LARC, because- now correct me if I make mistaken- a single LARC will operate two Lexicon units simultaneously? The LARC is my jam. ...
Yes, a single LARC will operate either two 480L or a 480L and a 224xl combined.
Old 24th April 2017 | Show parent
  #71
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Here is my completely subjective take:
(i haven't exhaustingly read the whole thread)

I've owned the 300, the 70, two 224s, two H3000s, a pcm80, a pcm81 and a pcm90 and a bricasti

I kept both of the 224s and the bricasti and have since sold everything else.

The thing i miss most is the pcm70 for two presets that I used to use a lot. I don't miss the 300 one bit and honestly found it quite replaceable with the pcm native plugs. The other pcms (80, 81 91) were similar in that I didn't once think whilst mixing once they were gone that the verbs I was getting from them would be better than some of my plugs. The lexicon plugs are really quite amazing but you do need to know how to tweak them and be willing to go in a bit on the settings. I found the 300 quite similar in that way (when run through aes) but didnt particularly enjoy flipping through menus to edit things. I find that engages a very technical part of my brain and stops me from listening and mixing by feel.


The 224s are absolutely irreplaceable for me in my workflow and the bricasti is the best reverb ever made. Ever. I would not want to mix without it again and would gladly trade one of my 224s for another bricasti.

The H3000 were incredible sounding but by far the least intuitive interfaced fx unit and simple things like getting a tempo sync and sorting out pitching on the different voices would absolutely kill creativity. In that regard I haven't once missed them and found that I make more useable mixes using the soundtoys stuff for crazy modulations and what not.

Just my experiences...
Old 27th April 2017 | Show parent
  #72
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prabha ➡️
I have the opposite opinion!

The PCM70 is so noisy, that is useless in some delicate program.

And the Relab 480 is really nice!

Go figure....
I tend to agree. I bought a PCM70 back in the day. I found it noisy, grainy and metallic, and sold it on not too long after. Don't get the attraction besides "older is better" or "people say this is good so I am going to like it" or some such. I much prefer the Lexicon 480/300/PCM derivations.
Old 27th April 2017 | Show parent
  #73
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by seancostello ➡️
I own the LXP15, PCM70 and Lex M300, and the navigation on all 3 of these is horrible. The PCM70 might be the worst, where the "up" button works in the opposite direction of what you would expect. Lexicon had a great interface in the LARCs, but the interfaces in the Lexicons I own are my least favorite hardware interfaces. Meanwhile, the H3000 uses a similar interface to the Lex M300 (2 line LED display, rotary dial, some push buttons, numerical keypad), and yet the H3000 interface is a JOY to use.
I agree. The interface on the pcm70 was laughably bad with it's weird grid matrix thingy.
Old 27th April 2017 | Show parent
  #74
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus ➡️
I agree. The interface on the pcm70 was laughably bad with it's weird grid matrix thingy.
Yes but it adds a certain thick grainy character to guitars and some vox that nothing else can.
Old 2nd November 2017 | Show parent
  #75
Lives for gear
 
italo de angelis's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastByte ➡️
See.....you've just been hit up by an Ex Eventide Programmer who designed the presets, banks and registers millions enjoy, use and add as effects on tracks every day!

The difference? This man knows, Voltage goes in one end - Voltage comes out the other, when your talking numerically ripped off Algorithims and plug Ins, the numeric margin for error as astonishing, you might, might, get lucky, though even then you internal and quantifiable numeric Farked up Plug, will spit out more Data errors then a 4 year old doing high end Physics etc!

When Plug in designers can model Voltage, Transformers, Slew rates, and VCA, FET and PWM scenarios that outboard gear utilises then, just maybe, Hardware might die, until then, it's a game a degrees,band hardware simply gets you closer, faster, and with spatial dimensions that are not pancake flat!

As far as thisvNevefreak guy goes? Hey crackpots are always trying to get a word up to feel a sense of, bought, owned, **** unit etc! Though a Nevefreak using Plug ins sounds very odd to me? I mean all those precious Neve Trafos etc, why not enhance them with great outboard? Oh I forgot he does....he uses a PCM-42 as bloody Limiter?

God help me, if there is not enough myth on these forums?

TLB

Back to THE myth!
Stunning Lexicon 300 library... for the real thing.
Clean your ears... use headphones and download the high resolution files, rather than hurt yourself with streaming MP3s!

The Silk Tone Library...
Italo de Angelis
Old 6th November 2017 | Show parent
  #76
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis ➡️
Back to THE myth!
Stunning Lexicon 300 library... for the real thing.
Clean your ears... use headphones and download the high resolution files, rather than hurt yourself with streaming MP3s!

The Silk Tone Library...
Italo de Angelis
This library of 300M/L sounds amazing, I am very impressed sounds great Italo, from Rich Plate to Ambience and Halls, take a listen...loving this one! Proof positive that yes Plug ins are convenient though the upgrade a drag, to have to load each seperate Algorithm yikes...when going through a real Lexicon Engine from the Big Old School Of Lexicon Effect units the 300 lives as the prince among Kings, a 480/L while filled and V.4.1 is a beautiful thing, only the repair bills make it such a 'Hot Potato' voltage in - Voltage out. Audio in - Audio dimensionally 3D wide open comes out great FX and programming!

Perfect example for anyone who's wondering if a 300/M/L is worth the money, at 1/4 less then released and a few hundred more then an 81/91 why not take 6 Inputs and Outputs digitally at 48kHz and two Analog at where ever you'd like 8 inputs outputs, SMPTE and Midi time code and programming great stuff. Old gear lives for a reason here a perfect example!
Old 6th November 2017
  #77
Lives for gear
 
italo de angelis's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thank you SIR J.!

Old 6th November 2017 | Show parent
  #78
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by charles chocula ➡️
I agree. I have both- although I haven't given it much thought, the major factor for me is the way the Eventide team implemented the rotary dial. Superb! And not too many function buttons! It's evident in similar Lexicin gear that it isn't a universal problem for them. For instance, I have a PCM 81 that is dead easy to get around on. Mind you, operation manuals are an anathema to my American strain of ADHD, so perhaps that Ismail a factor. I must say, the absolute king of easy-peazy is the Eventide 2016. WOW! If all interfaces were as genius as these!

I suppose I ought to get a 224xl with the LARC, because- now correct me if I make mistaken- a single LARC will operate two Lexicon units simultaneously? The LARC is my jam. That's the main reason I got the Relab 480- I had never used one, but it was as if I were an 80s engineer in another lifetime. Took to it like I took to swimming and water skiing. Alas, the 300 is not what I would describe as "intuitive". It's a bit like that "Silicon Valley" scene where after only testing the software on fellow software engineers, it's then tested on a control group.


A very interesting review of the M300 or L300 and Relab 480/XL or 480 as the 480 had what 2 algorithms and the XL took...Hmmm 4 years? An H3000 intuitive, I am not too sure what you've got so against an M300 Larc or no Larc, I must disagree, if a PCM80/81 is a breeze to operate on 2 lines and in Pro mode 40-50 menus deep, I think your 300M review missed the RTFM? I think the PCM80/81 with Dual FX card has to be the most complained about menu driven effects unit known on GS.

Relab 480 Larc is....simply a great design. The videos do show the conversion busting Red distortions into a Sony DMX converters though geez you don't hear it just see it, trickery perhaps? Ok...hoo hum. Each their own. A 224XL and dual Larc? I'm certain your thinking a 480/L and 224XL Dual Larc though then a 224XL can have two Larcs too,..I'm old I was an 80's engineer? As for ADHD ask your friendly GP or Doctor....Speedy Kids are so quick to jump to conclusions it's amazing these days! As to the Lex 300 well it seems a firm favourite these days! Just my opinion, as an FX fan etc.

It is always interesting to look back at a shoot out viewpoint! Also seems you feel the Eventide 3000 Menu programming very simple two lines a wheel same as the M300? Gosh the H3000 is deep as near programming was back then in 1988. The M300 1991-2010 supported that's a record for sure! More so with Lexicon. The Eventide 2016 or Princeton 2016 easy? I am very confused now! Hmmm! As to testing and Silicon Valley ask Mr. Carnes, I'm certain his hands were on the M300 team design from memory. Small world all these pro reverb genius' whom live on GS. A ...Very small world indeed? Hmmm!

Regards,
TLB
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