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Mytek Brooklyn DAC
Old 5th August 2017 | Show parent
  #91
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by svarthvitt ➡️
REVIEW AND MEASUREMENTS OF THE MYTEK BROOKLYN DAC

Review and Measurements of Mytek Brooklyn DAC | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

Quote: "This seems like a well implemented DAC from physical point of view. The box, display, copious inputs, etc. are all nice. Alas, when it comes to analog performance out of the DAC, it shows the level of maturity that exists out there where a $70 DAC from Behringer outperforms it in distortion product. The clipping at 0 db FS is also disappointing".

EDIT: Maybe this thread should be moved to "LOW END"?

If you compare the Brooklyn with a $70 Behringer side by side on a good system, and the Behringer sounds better, then yes. Please, have at it.
Old 5th August 2017 | Show parent
  #92
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanBSC ➡️
If you compare the Brooklyn with a $70 Behringer side by side on a good system, and the Behringer sounds better, then yes. Please, have at it.
What's your point?

Do you mean the measurements are faulty or irrelevant?

Or do you mean that "sounds better" is the paramount criteria in evaluation of DACs?

Do you think people would easily distinguish the Behringer from the Brooklyn in blind tests? If so, do you think the ability to distinguish would put the Brooklyn in the "sounds better" category? (For those who like statistics, please note that there are two "ifs" in the above passage).

I am sorry I didn't get your points due to lack of arguments in your post.

FWIW, I read the test as a question posed to the Mytek people: Why don't you make a technically superb product (even if the documented errors are outside of the hearing range of normal people)?
Old 5th August 2017 | Show parent
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svarthvitt ➡️
What's your point?

Do you mean the measurements are faulty or irrelevant?
Not faulty, nor completely relevant.


Quote:
Do you think people would easily distinguish the Behringer from the Brooklyn in blind tests?
Yes.

Quote:
If so, do you think the ability to distinguish would put the Brooklyn in the "sounds better" category?
Yes. And more accurate.

Quote:
FWIW, I read the test as a question posed to the Mytek people: Why don't you make a technically superb product (even if the documented errors are outside of the hearing range of normal people)?
The issues I can tell from the review were from the output being too hot because they didn't use the jumpers, and because apparently gentler filters are allowing very low level distortion. In practice, slow rolloff filters allow some distortion but can sound better because of time domain performance. If the distortion isnt to a relevant or audible level, then using a gentler filter is going to provide better sound quality, on the whole.

I agree that it is weird that Mytek's current DACs are so high output, but that is what the jumpers are for.
Old 6th August 2017 | Show parent
  #94
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Mastering ➡️
Has anyone AB the Mytek Brooklyn DAC to the Crane Song Solaris? Got my eye on that one as well!
I'm interested in these two. I just want a simple monitoring solution that is open, clear and non fatiguing.

How important do you guys consider the BNC word clock in? I'm also running Avid io x3, a Burl B2 and a Titan.

What's the optimal, simple hook up for a PT HDX rig please?
Old 6th August 2017 | Show parent
  #95
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanBSC ➡️
Not faulty, nor completely relevant.




Yes.



Yes. And more accurate.



The issues I can tell from the review were from the output being too hot because they didn't use the jumpers, and because apparently gentler filters are allowing very low level distortion. In practice, slow rolloff filters allow some distortion but can sound better because of time domain performance. If the distortion isnt to a relevant or audible level, then using a gentler filter is going to provide better sound quality, on the whole.

I agree that it is weird that Mytek's current DACs are so high output, but that is what the jumpers are for.
IanBSC,

Thanks for your answer.

Now it gets interesting. It's always funny when critique of a tester's work leads to insinuations of that tester. You seem to indicate that the tester, Amir Majidemehr is:

1) Agenda-driven

and/or

2) Is not competent

and/or

3) Lacks integrity

and/or

4) Is not honest.

Please note that 2, 3 and 4 can be summed up as "trustworthy".

So what is it; is Amir agenda-driven and/or not trustworthy?
Old 6th August 2017
  #96
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🎧 15 years
Svarthvitt,

Are you looking to argue?

Kindly,
Josh
Old 6th August 2017 | Show parent
  #97
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IanBSC's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by svarthvitt ➡️
IanBSC,

Thanks for your answer.

Now it gets interesting. It's always funny when critique of a tester's work leads to insinuations of that tester. You seem to indicate that the tester, Amir Majidemehr is:

1) Agenda-driven

and/or

2) Is not competent

and/or

3) Lacks integrity

and/or

4) Is not honest.

Please note that 2, 3 and 4 can be summed up as "trustworthy".

So what is it; is Amir agenda-driven and/or not trustworthy?
I know nothing about this guy.

Here are the facts:

1. He uses a DAC with an apparent non-functional front panel
2. Has no idea how the DAC is set up in the menu
3. At no point listens to the DAC
4. Makes judgement about DAC performance based solely on its clipping response with tones at +0.788db and +1.973db
Old 6th August 2017 | Show parent
  #98
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bushwick ➡️
Svarthvitt,

Are you looking to argue?

Kindly,
Josh
The test is non credible and is assigned no weight here.
Old 6th August 2017 | Show parent
  #99
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
The test is non credible and is assigned no weight here.
I appreciate the feedback.

Amir's been banned from other forums. So he started his own, Audiosciencereview, over a year ago.

What I take from the feedback on GS is that GS users think Amir's measurements are probably correct (nobody disputes his measurements) but not entirely relevant. Even if the Mytek Brooklyn fails one of his tests, GS users think this fail carries "no weight".

Maybe GS users think "black hat" John Atkinson's review and measurements are of greater interest:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/...r-measurements

"Color me impressed", said Atkinson.

For my part, what I thought was interesting, was the fact that the Mytek is tuned a little louder than other DACs. This is a common trick among producers of hifi gear, isn't it? Because louder is perceived as better.

This little trick in addition to Mytek's focus on MQA, a BS format for audiophools, yet endorsed wholeheartedly by Stereophile and the like, made me a little uneasy.

The Mytek focus on 384k and DSD adds to the impression that the firm now targets the lucrative audiophool niche.

The fact that the Mytek failed a little internal math job - according to Amir's brief test - got me suspicious; how much focus is on marketing and how much is on good old KISS engineering?

We're constantly reminded that "great" names in pro audio skip on the most important, which this little story tells us:

Antelope Audio Goliath HD issues

(Antelope's new $$$$$ converter reportedly wasn't tested with Windows gear prior to market launch).

I probably made too big a point out of Amir's brief measurement review. And according to Amir the Mytek "sounds fantastic":

Uptone ISO Regen Review and Measurements | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Old 6th August 2017 | Show parent
  #100
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by svarthvitt ➡️
The fact that the Mytek failed a little internal math job - according to Amir's brief test - got me suspicious; how much focus is on marketing and how much is on good old KISS engineering?
I'm not sure I'd call a digital device clipping above 0.0db an internal math failure.
Old 7th August 2017 | Show parent
  #101
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by svarthvitt ➡️
The Mytek focus on 384k and DSD adds to the impression that the firm now targets the lucrative audiophool niche.
There are plenty of other threads for debating epistemology and high sample rates.

As well, there are a number of reputable designers such as Michal and Rupert Neve who find benefit in these formats, and their equipment is no less excellent.
Old 7th August 2017 | Show parent
  #102
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5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
The whole report is suspect. The give away is when the tester was too lazy / not knowledgeable enough to adjust the output level to a known standard. Choose either +18dBu or +24dBu to indicate 0 dBFS. The DAC plays back at the level one sets it to play back at.

So there is no hi-fi trickery going on.

Mr. Atkinson's test is very credible and well done.
Michal knows his stuff and I have strong doubts that his design contains mistakes.
Old 7th August 2017 | Show parent
  #103
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey ➡️
Thanks to one of my favorite people Michal, and his local assistant, I spent many hours with the Brooklyn, Manhattan vs. my 12? year old 8x192 and then later the Bricasti M1 SE vs. my 8x192
Impression(s) of the Bricasti M1 SE?
Old 7th August 2017 | Show parent
  #104
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mr.gefell's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bushwick ➡️
Svarthvitt,

Are you looking to argue?

Kindly,
Josh
nah..he's just a ****.

[/QUOTE]

The fact that the mytek failed a little internal math job - according to Amir's brief test - got me suspicious; how much focus is on marketing and how much is on good old KISS engineering?[/QUOTE]

Do you work for TMZ?

Last edited by mr.gefell; 7th August 2017 at 07:03 AM..
Old 7th August 2017 | Show parent
  #105
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.gefell ➡️
nah..he's just a ****.
I posted a measurement review where the tester found out that the Mytek is:

1) Tuned louder

2) Has a potential headroom problem.

None has disputed those two findings.

As for your attempt to bring the debate to a higher level, I take the opportunity to fill out your four asterisks as I wish to feel better.
Old 7th August 2017 | Show parent
  #106
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mr.gefell's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by svarthvitt ➡️
I posted a measurement review where the tester FoU d that the Mytek is:

1) Tuned louder

2) Has a potential headroom problem.

None has disputed those two findings.

As for your attempt to bring the debate to a higher level, I take the opportunity to fill out your four asterisks as I wish to feel better.
judging by your posts, all your posts are agenda driven. I will have chat with Jules , hopefully get this sorted out.
Old 7th August 2017 | Show parent
  #107
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lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G ➡️
I'm interested in these two. I just want a simple monitoring solution that is open, clear and non fatiguing.

How important do you guys consider the BNC word clock in? I'm also running Avid io x3, a Burl B2 and a Titan.

What's the optimal, simple hook up for a PT HDX rig please?
Brooklyn and Solaris are very different. I've posted on it before.

There is no "optimal" hook up ... and they're all pretty simple. Just listen and choose a DA that works for you. They're all "good" it's about your set up and your taste at this stage in the game. AES/SPDIF in is fine. BNC is only an option.
Old 7th August 2017 | Show parent
  #108
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey ➡️
Brooklyn and Solaris are very different. I've posted on it before.

There is no "optimal" hook up ... and they're all pretty simple. Just listen and choose a DA that works for you. They're all "good" it's about your set up and your taste at this stage in the game. AES/SPDIF in is fine. BNC is only an option.
Thanks Brian. I was under the (false?) belief that word clock should travel separately to audio and I was also concerned about the converters and Pro Tools HDX compatibility.

Would you mind pointing me in the direction of your Solaris vs Brooklyn opinions?
Old 7th August 2017 | Show parent
  #109
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lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G ➡️
Thanks Brian. I was under the (false?) belief that word clock should travel separately to audio and I was also concerned about the converters and Pro Tools HDX compatibility.

Would you mind pointing me in the direction of your Solaris vs Brooklyn opinions?
I'm running clock on the AES for years, it's all good.

Not sure where it was. Solaris is harmonically dry to cold, and very linear, a bit clinical but not too far that way for those who like the perfection aimed sounds. Brooklyn is punchy and has a low and high mid bump (like the presence curve we know). Musical and fun yet a bit more distortion.

Up a level, Manhattan II is very linear and a bit punchy, the upgraded 8x192 sound, the upgraded Brooklyn. I would maybe look there. Bricasti M1 SE is also great, fairly linear and lush. Close to the Manhattan II, just bigger and sweeter.
Old 7th August 2017 | Show parent
  #110
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey ➡️
I'm running clock on the AES for years, it's all good.

Not sure where it was. Solaris is harmonically dry to cold, and very linear, a bit clinical but not too far that way. Brooklyn is very punchy and has a low and high mid bump (like the presence curve we know). Manhattan II is more linear and a bit punchy, the upgraded 8x192 sound. I would maybe look there. Bricasti M1 SE is fairly linear and lush. Very close to the Manhattan II, just bigger and sweeter.
Thank you! Much appreciated.
Old 8th August 2017 | Show parent
  #111
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey ➡️
Up a level, Manhattan II is very linear and a bit punchy, the upgraded 8x192 sound, the upgraded Brooklyn. I would maybe look there. Bricasti M1 SE is also great, fairly linear and lush. Close to the Manhattan II, just bigger and sweeter.
Thanks for sharing your observations...more to ponder.
Old 8th August 2017
  #112
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Guys, please... don't talk behind my back.

I am not active here these days but happy to answer any questions other than, "he is a bozo." :D
Old 8th August 2017
  #113
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🎧 5 years
Looks like JA at Stereophile bumped into the same problem.

When fed a 19.1 khz full scale 0db tone he got the following result in blue.


19.1 khz tone left in blue, right in red the result is much different.

Old 8th August 2017 | Show parent
  #114
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
The whole report is suspect. The give away is when the tester was too lazy / not knowledgeable enough to adjust the output level to a known standard. Choose either +18dBu or +24dBu to indicate 0 dBFS. The DAC plays back at the level one sets it to play back at.

So there is no hi-fi trickery going on.

Mr. Atkinson's test is very credible and well done.
Michal knows his stuff and I have strong doubts that his design contains mistakes.
Yet Mr. Atkinson also viewed excessive distortion with a 0 dbFS tone. It cleaned up nicely at -1 dbFS.

Using the 19.1 khz tone instead of 7 khz gave an even worse result for the Brooklyn.

So one is credible and the other is not?
Old 8th August 2017
  #115
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🎧 5 years
Not the exact same device, and although I'm not in the habit of clipping my DAW, I don't hear any massive intermodulation distortion on my Manhattan at 0.0db.
Old 8th August 2017 | Show parent
  #116
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanBSC ➡️
4. Makes judgement about DAC performance based solely on its clipping response with tones at +0.788db and +1.973db
You are confusing input sample value with output voltage. The Mytek generates clipping distortions with 0 dbFS input signal. This means its internal processing overflows causing those distortion products.

What the output analog voltage looks like which you mention above is not important. That value could be anything.

Let me know if that is not clear and I will explain more.
Old 8th August 2017 | Show parent
  #117
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
The whole report is suspect. The give away is when the tester was too lazy / not knowledgeable enough to adjust the output level to a known standard. Choose either +18dBu or +24dBu to indicate 0 dBFS. The DAC plays back at the level one sets it to play back at.
Again there is confusion on output voltage versus input values. Nothing in my measurements is about analog output distortion. I am feeding legal PCM values to the DAC and at 0 db FS behavior suddenly changes. This is a common problem when samples are transformed through digital filtering and such and care is not taken to correctly clip things back to 0 dbFS. This is why slight reduction in input PCM level causes the problem to disappear. Setting the output analog level to one or the other has no bearing on this.

Quote:
So there is no hi-fi trickery going on.

Mr. Atkinson's test is very credible and well done.
Michal knows his stuff and I have strong doubts that his design contains mistakes.
It is a small problem but nevertheless, one that I like to see not be there.

I have seen much more extreme cases of this where at 0 dbfs there is quite a bit more distortion resulting in clearly audible distortion. These distortion spikes are at -100 dbFS so not audible really.
Old 8th August 2017 | Show parent
  #118
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Old 8th August 2017
  #119
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6 Reviews written
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Intersting. So it distorts but at incredibly low levels. Hmm. So why all the fuss here??

Last edited by Slug1; 8th August 2017 at 05:19 AM.. Reason: Answered: Irrelevant
Old 8th August 2017 | Show parent
  #120
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanBSC ➡️
I know nothing about this guy.

Here are the facts:

1. He uses a DAC with an apparent non-functional front panel
This could have been operator error on my part. It did not impact my testing however.

Quote:
2. Has no idea how the DAC is set up in the menu
The front panel lights up with bit depth/sample rate and combined with the measured results, I knew exactly how it is setup for this type of test.

Quote:
3. At no point listens to the DAC
I received the DAC on loan to measure with another device. The person then needed it and I had to send it back quickly.

Regardless, if you want subjective testimonials, the web is full of them. However, there are scant few of us with professional test gear and knowledge to measure them and that is what I do.

Quote:
4. Makes judgement about DAC performance based solely on its clipping response with tones at +0.788db and +1.973db
No. I provided a number of measurements and let folks judge. I noted clipping and extra harmonic distortion relative to much cheaper DAC.

Ultimately there may be errors in my work and I welcome constructive feedback and data on that. But saying "liar, liar, pants on fire" is not it.
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