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Great River EQ-1NV adds depth ?
Old 30th January 2007
  #1
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Great River EQ-1NV adds depth ?

I've been lurking here for a while and this is my first post. Here goes:

I'm a young, burgeoning singer/songwriter/producer and after making the best out of my sm57 and presonus bluetube preamp over the past 6 years I have learned to use my limited gear in every possible way to achieve what I think are pretty decent results (if anyone is interested I have samples of my music).

Recently I have decided to make a few upgrades to my bedroom studio on a limited budget, one of them being the Peluso 2247 LE (which I'm very happy with) as well as a Great River ME-1NV.

The store I went to didn't have a brand new ME-1NV in stock so they lent me a ME-1NV + EQ-1NV module free of charge until the next shipment from GR arrives (which should be in about a week).

After trying the preamp and being thouroughly impressed (what a difference between the GR and the noisy presonus), I decided to give the EQ a go. My first reaction was : HOLY CRAP ! All my life I've been using plug-ins for EQ and compression (voxengo, urs and the likes) and been happy with them, but this Great River EQ has changed my perspective on how high quality equipment can inspire an artist's performances.


Here's my question to anyone who owns the EQ-1NV or EQ-2NV or who has experience with it :

Even modest eq settings seem to add depth to the source. The effect could be described as this : a feeling of being able to reach into the speakers and grab the vocal or guitar track. I tried matching EQ settings as close as possible with all sorts of plug-ins but they don't get me that "alive" feeling that came with sources treated with the EQ-1NV.

What causes this ? Is it phase smearing because of the "imperfection" of analgoue EQ vs. digital ? Do any of you who use other hardware EQ's notice this kind of dimensional effect compared to their digital recreations ?

Or am I just crazy and still in awe from my first high end gear experience ?
Old 30th January 2007
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Traxx's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman360 ➑️
I've been lurking here for a while and this is my first post. Here goes:

I'm a young, burgeoning singer/songwriter/producer and after making the best out of my sm57 and presonus bluetube preamp over the past 6 years I have learned to use my limited gear in every possible way to achieve what I think are pretty decent results (if anyone is interested I have samples of my music).

Recently I have decided to make a few upgrades to my bedroom studio on a limited budget, one of them being the Peluso 2247 LE (which I'm very happy with) as well as a Great River ME-1NV.

The store I went to didn't have a brand new ME-1NV in stock so they lent me a ME-1NV + EQ-1NV module free of charge until the next shipment from GR arrives (which should be in about a week).

After trying the preamp and being thouroughly impressed (what a difference between the GR and the noisy presonus), I decided to give the EQ a go. My first reaction was : HOLY CRAP ! All my life I've been using plug-ins for EQ and compression (voxengo, urs and the likes) and been happy with them, but this Great River EQ has changed my perspective on how high quality equipment can inspire an artist's performances.


Here's my question to anyone who owns the EQ-1NV or EQ-2NV or who has experience with it :

Even modest eq settings seem to add depth to the source. The effect could be described as this : a feeling of being able to reach into the speakers and grab the vocal or guitar track. I tried matching EQ settings as close as possible with all sorts of plug-ins but they don't get me that "alive" feeling that came with sources treated with the EQ-1NV.

What causes this ? Is it phase smearing because of the "imperfection" of analgoue EQ vs. digital ? Do any of you who use other hardware EQ's notice this kind of dimensional effect compared to their digital recreations ?

Or am I just crazy and still in awe from my first high end gear experience ?
I personally love software plugs...have a lot of them from uad to urs, and they are good but to me nothing is a substitute for hardware. Hardware always has an undeniable sound that i can't describe. Not saying software is bad b/c i use software a lot but hardware always sounds better to "my" ears....So i personally don't think ur just in awe, you've experience what quality hardware sounds like.
Old 30th January 2007
  #3
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman360 ➑️
What causes this ?
Welcome to the world of good equipment... glad to hear you're enjoying the experience. A few things you should know about the MEQ-1NV [which is the name for the ME-1NV and EQ-1NV in the same package]... the output of the EQ is transformerless, the output of the mic pre has a transformer.

You can hang the EQ on the insert point of the ME-1NV and have your choice of outputs [transformer balanced or transformerless but still balanced]... the transformerless output actually has better headroom than the transformer output... the transformer output has the phase shift associated with transformers [along with a little 'ringing' and 'overshoot' but not much].

The input of the EQ has a different input transformer than the input of the Mic Pre... so, you can take a like level signal [down to like a -20 input which is roughly "instrument" level] and run it into the EQ... hang the pre off the insert point on the EQ and again have a choice of outputs.

The combination of the two units, the pre and the EQ was designed to give the user maximum choices and combinations for use. In my joint I'm exceptionally limited in the amount of rack gear I can accomodate so when we put together the "Mercenary Edition" stuff the idea was to have a whole lot of tonal range, textrure and function in the smallest possible space without any sacrifice of "quality"... for more propaganda on the history as well as uses and abuses of Mercenary Edition gear you can hit http://mercenaryeditions.com which tells you what we were thinking as the process was going down.

Best of luck with your new gear!! I hope this leads you down a wonderful new path that makes recording as much fun as you can have while still wearing clothes.

Peace.
Old 20th March 2007 | Show parent
  #4
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Fletcher, thank you for the info. I've been playing around with both the ME-1NV and EQ-1NV and am getting really great results. I do indeed hear a difference in the choice of outputs on the preamp ! Just got an RNC compressor and I truly feel my vocal chain is complete now.

For those of you who are wondering whether to purchase an ME-1NV consider this:

I record both outputs simulatenously.

One output (transformerless) is considered the "clean" output and is routed into my DAW without any outboard compression or EQ.

The other output passes through the RNC compressor and EQ-1NV with fairly aggressive settings on both pieces, therefore allowing me to record a "clean" unprocessed sound and a processed outboard sound simulatenously. What's great is that you have the piece of mind of retaining the original unprocessed track (if the compressed+EQ'd output doesn't end up sitting properly in the mix) + the advantage of using outboard gear instead of plug-ins in the processed track.
Old 20th March 2007 | Show parent
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Infernal Device's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Got to give (more) props to Fletcher.

Here is a guy who runs a business but still takes time to make in-depth posts to people "new to it all".

As far as the poster, welcome to the end of your social spending. It all goes to us now. Enjoy.
Old 20th March 2007 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
not_so_new's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infernal Device ➑️
Got to give (more) props to Fletcher.

Here is a guy who runs a business but still takes time to make in-depth posts to people "new to it all".
Think that has anything to do with the fact that the business Fletcher is in is to sell gear to the people "new to it all" perhaps?

LOL

I joke I joke..... Fletcher is not really in the gear pimp busness anymore so I assume he is really just bord off his ass.
Old 20th March 2007 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks for the warm welcome ! I love this board, I've been learning a lot of great things on here and it seems that the most important thing I've learned is : gear can be addictive.

I actually made myself a promise that this would be it. I feel like I've already spent a fortune between the Peluso, preamp + EQ, compressor, reflexion filter, mogami cables, mic stand, pop screen etc. It adds up so fast. I wanted to make sure to get high quality items that would last a lifetime.

No more spending on gear for at least the next 4 years though ! (we'll see if that holds). I'm just trying to be careful and not get carried away, it seems like a bottomless pit, I want to focus on writing and recording great songs and spending my money on important things, like my girlfriend.

The only thing I might need would be new converters. After that I'm done.
Oh and maybe another mic. Yup, that's it, nothing else..Actually maybe some monitors seeing as how I'm monitoring on PC (albeit good) speakers.



If anyone else on here is using the Great River preamp/EQ + RNC compressor combination, feel free to share your thoughts on it !
Old 20th March 2007 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman360 ➑️
.. it seems that the most important thing I've learned is : gear can be addictive.

....I'm just trying to be careful and not get carried away, it seems like a bottomless pit, I want to focus on writing and recording great songs and spending my money on important things, like my girlfriend.

Run,run as fast as you can and don't look back..forget you were ever here..
go and write those songs heh
Old 21st March 2007 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
ethan_c's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I totally agree with you about the depth factor. Just putting the IBIS in the chain (completely flat) it widens the image. I've gotten to where I always put it on the 2bus after the STC-8.
Old 21st March 2007 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I have to say I'm suspicious of an EQ adding "depth"...somebody tell me I'm wrong...
Old 21st March 2007 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infernal Device ➑️
Got to give (more) props to Fletcher.

Here is a guy who runs a business but still takes time to make in-depth posts to people "new to it all".
+1. I'll add that he doesn't blatantly market his pieces just to move units to noobs.

Mercenary (still) kicks ass.
Old 27th March 2007 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Help guys,

After reading this thread, im torn between the Great River or Pacifica pre!
Should i get the Great river MEQ-1NV combo and try the outboard eqs? or buy the pacifia and work on plugin eqs? i have 2 UAD cards, but i understand nothing really compares to outboard eqs? no? Im also thinking of adding a single channel distressor and a RNC to the chain.i track mostly vocals,guitars, synths and some samplers into a RME FF800. Compressors are also in the pipe line now, but they are way outta my budget now, im looking at the portico stereo comp.any thoughts about the setup guys?

Another question i have is about using these pres on the 2 buss for my mix. i see pple using pres rather than summing boxes for colouration. Do i have to get a 2 channel Great river in that case? since the pacifica has 2 channels will it do? how do i connect my 2 buss from my DAW to the pres? Sorry for all this confusion. Thanks and really appreciate if any of you guys could help
Old 27th March 2007 | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Kris's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnkenn ➑️
I have to say I'm suspicious of an EQ adding "depth"...somebody tell me I'm wrong...
I get that feeling when I pop on the eq on the Toft ATB... when it's set flat... Could be a volume thing, but it really seems like more of a 'depth' thing to me. Whatever it is... I likey... never felt/heard that with a plugin.
Old 27th March 2007 | Show parent
  #14
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Trinity, it just comes down to personal taste. Which color do you prefer ? The Great River is a creamy thick buttery color (when you push it) without losing clarity. That's what I love about it the most. Haven't tried the Pacifica but have heard examples of it compared to a Great River and still ended up prefering the GR's meatiness. The Pacifica seemed a bit cold and sterile (in my opinion).

As for the RNC, it's good as long as you're not doing crazy gain reduction with it. Not sure the audible difference between the RNC and the distressor is worth the price difference. I say, save the $$ and get the RNC.

Get the Great River preamp + EQ combo + the RNC. Having an outboard EQ + compressor in conjunction with plug-ins will give all kinds of possibilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnkenn ➑️
I have to say I'm suspicious of an EQ adding "depth"...somebody tell me I'm wrong...
I was suspicious at first also but it definitely has an effect. I'm not sure how to explain it but time and time again I've noticed that none of my plug-ins can give me not just the sound but the dimension the outboard EQ does. Maybe it's a psychoacoustic effect of me hearing certain frequencies pushed forward by the GR EQ, thus giving me the impression of depth ?

Whatever it is, I am now a firm believer in the notion of "mojo" in analogue gear that plug-ins can't reproduce (yet).
Old 27th March 2007 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman360 ➑️
Thanks for the warm welcome ! I love this board, I've been learning a lot of great things on here and it seems that the most important thing I've learned is : gear can be addictive.

I actually made myself a promise that this would be it. I feel like I've already spent a fortune between the Peluso, preamp + EQ, compressor, reflexion filter, mogami cables, mic stand, pop screen etc. It adds up so fast. I wanted to make sure to get high quality items that would last a lifetime.

No more spending on gear for at least the next 4 years though ! (we'll see if that holds). I'm just trying to be careful and not get carried away, it seems like a bottomless pit, I want to focus on writing and recording great songs and spending my money on important things, like my girlfriend.

The only thing I might need would be new converters. After that I'm done.
Oh and maybe another mic. Yup, that's it, nothing else..Actually maybe some monitors seeing as how I'm monitoring on PC (albeit good) speakers.



If anyone else on here is using the Great River preamp/EQ + RNC compressor combination, feel free to share your thoughts on it !
You're a sharp one... don't forget what you said here about spending your time/energy/money on what matters most... writing and recording great songs. For an aspiring artist that is far more important than buying all kinds expensive gear and getting diminishing rates of return on each new thing you get. Stay focused on your music.
Old 28th March 2007 | Show parent
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Mastering101's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new ➑️

I joke I joke..... Fletcher is not really in the gear pimp busness anymore so I assume he is really just bord off his ass.
LOL yeah OK...
Old 28th March 2007
  #17
Moderator
 
Tim Farrant's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman360 ➑️

What causes this ?
Welcome to the world of analogue...
Old 28th March 2007 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
seaneldon's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
you want even more depth? real depth? move your microphones back.
Old 30th March 2007 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris ➑️
I get that feeling when I pop on the eq on the Toft ATB... when it's set flat... Could be a volume thing, but it really seems like more of a 'depth' thing to me. Whatever it is... I likey... never felt/heard that with a plugin.
Yep. Really opens things up don't it ?
Old 1st November 2010
  #20
Gear Nut
 
gpants's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I just picked up an EQ-1NV to go with my ME-1NV. There's one thing I don't understand-using the mic input on ME-1NV, and the patch jack to connect the two units, the transformer balanced out on the pre is disabled. I can use the transformerless out on the EQ but shouldn't I also be able to use the out on the pre? I'm not in the studio now, but from what I recall, if I plug into the EQ line in, BOTH the transformer balanced out on pre and the tranformerless out on the EQ work. Is this normal behavior? And if so, why?
Old 1st November 2010 | Show parent
  #21
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpants ➑️
I just picked up an EQ-1NV to go with my ME-1NV. There's one thing I don't understand-using the mic input on ME-1NV, and the patch jack to connect the two units, the transformer balanced out on the pre is disabled. I can use the transformerless out on the EQ but shouldn't I also be able to use the out on the pre? I'm not in the studio now, but from what I recall, if I plug into the EQ line in, BOTH the transformer balanced out on pre and the tranformerless out on the EQ work. Is this normal behavior? And if so, why?
When using the EQ on the insert point make sure you have the input selection switch on the EQ-1NV pointing at "MPI" [Mic Pre Insert] or the unit will indeed interrupt the signal path back to the ME-1NV.

If that switch is in the right position -- check the cable you're using to connect the two units - when you have the EQ sitting on the insert point of the mic - pre [and the switch is in the right spot] you should have zero problem using either units output [that was part of the design criteria].
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