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AnaMod : ATS-1 Tape Simulator
Old 9th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1471
Lives for gear
 
WunderBro Flo's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I´m not even reading your stuff anymore, go write the **** **** words to people who listen to you :-)

(a little offtopic so I keep it short: concerning my SSL statement, for anyone who is interested, here is s file that contains one loop (8 bars), 6 times looped. some of the loops are summed itb, some through an SSL, clean and volume matched. This is how much difference a clean analog summing buss makes. http://www.wildcowboys.com/ssl_itb.zip anyone ;-) cares to identify the loops? )

Last edited by WunderBro Flo; 9th April 2010 at 02:35 PM.. Reason: added a link
Old 9th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1472
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchwully ➡️
Has anybody here also tried the kvr-winner FerricTDS and can offer a simple comparison between the two?

Also - I'm curious how to achieve the opposite of the tape effect - de-tape effect. If anybody could offer some insight into that as well that would be awesome.

Thanks guys! Sorry to interrupt!
to do this you would need to

(1) take the analog model of the tape machine,
(2) convert its state space model into the frequency domain,
(3) use the resulting transfer function and calculate its inverse.
(4) build an analog circuit whose input output relationship matches this inverse function

the guys who build the anamod could easily do this if they saw any value in it.
Old 9th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1473
Lives for gear
 
OurDarkness's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbianco ➡️
to do this you would need to
(3) use the resulting transfer function and calculate its inverse.
Computer programmer here. That's generally how it goes, but perhaps you will agree that the transfer function cannot always be derived easily. I have seen transfer functions that looked like... monsters...heh
Old 9th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1474
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildCowboys ➡️
I´m not even reading your stuff anymore, go write the **** **** words to people who listen to you :-)
dont kid yourself...plenty of people in this thread, although not all can and have disseminated whats been put forward.
Old 9th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1475
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by OurDarkness ➡️
Computer programmer here. That's generally how it goes, but perhaps you will agree that the transfer function cannot always be derived easily. I have seen transfer functions that looked like... monsters...heh
yep, and i see ones regularly that don't have an inverse even if you can get them.
your totally right of course. im assumbing that since the anamod actually exsists in hardware and they modelled it, you must be able to derive a transfer function for it, or atleast something real close to it. maybe thats not the greatest assumption ive made in my lifetime though...
Old 9th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1476
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by OurDarkness ➡️
Computer programmer here. That's generally how it goes, but perhaps you will agree that the transfer function cannot always be derived easily. I have seen transfer functions that looked like... monsters...heh
i rest my case here is one of those blokes right here.

good on ya "OurDarkness"
Old 9th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1477
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
Some posts deleted due to flaming and insulting language..

Keep it civil or risk a ban..

Thank you,

Old 9th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1478
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DONNX ➡️
This thread has alot of controversy heh
And a lot of interesting spelling.
Old 9th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1479
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules ➡️
Some posts deleted due to flaming and insulting language..

Keep it civil or risk a ban..

Thank you,

Thank goodness.
Go Jules. thumbsup
Old 9th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1480
Kush Audio
 
u b k's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by feck ➡️
For sure, man. No worries. My question would be - in what way does that pertain to the ATS-1? It is analog. So is a tape machine. All analog recordings at this point end up transferred to digital. I don't see how in this example an ATS is in any way different from a tape machine.

You're totally right. If your methodology involves using tape as a simple processor, something that your signal passes thru on its way to the daw, then yes, the anamod and tape serve the same function there.

Where the anamod and tape differ is in tape's ability to be the storage medium itself.

You asked what my post had to do with the anamod, which is a fair question, and the truth is it didn't have much of anything to do with it. I only meant to address the sidebar where someone proposed that tape was superior to the anamod because it allows you to 'stay pure' with no a/d, and he was accused of failing to grasp the basic reality that all music hits a converter at some point. IMO his point was misunderstood, so I stepped in to clarify what the implications were from my perspective.

I'm actually in the process of getting my studer ready for possible sale, so I've got one eye on the anamod and another on an all-tube summing bus. Ahh, the agonies of a gearslut!


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 9th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1481
Lives for gear
 
Quint's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k ➡️
Try to understand that for some of us, it's not that we don't understand the music will eventually hit an a/d, it's that we hear a difference when mixing signals that have been digitized and mixing signals that have never been digitized. This is true for us even when we're mixing the digitized signals in the analog realm. I believe this is what hotshot is saying, but if I'm wrong about that I apologize for overstepping.

Something changes when sound becomes numbers and is then reconstructed, all thru several layers of filters before and after the digitization. It's inevitable, it doesn't matter what process you're talking about: repeatedly filtering a sound will change it, filters by definition take things out and/or leave things behind.

Whether those shifts are audible to you, whether they're preferable to you, whether or not they even matter to you... that's down to you as an individual and your unique set of tastes, needs, and goals. But the shifts are there, and while I've come to a place where my creativity is best served by embracing the power of automation and parallel evolving songs made possible with a daw, I do miss the sheer uninhibited size and energy of sounds that are coming straight off magnetic tape and thru a console to the speakers.


Gregory Scott - ubk
So are you saying that you've given up on your move to 8 track tape? Just curious because I thought it was a cool idea.
Old 9th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1482
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k ➡️
You're totally right. If your methodology involves using tape as a simple processor, something that your signal passes thru on its way to the daw, then yes, the anamod and tape serve the same function there.

Where the anamod and tape differ is in tape's ability to be the storage medium itself.

...I only meant to address the sidebar where someone proposed that tape was superior to the anamod because it allows you to 'stay pure' with no a/d, and he was accused of failing to grasp the basic reality that all music hits a converter at some point. IMO his point was misunderstood, so I stepped in to clarify what the implications were from my perspective...

Gregory Scott - ubk
Exactly...

I thought you were saved my 'analog-bro'... PM me about possible trade on studer...

Good luck,

hotshot
Old 10th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1483
Lives for gear
 
DONNX's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k ➡️
I'm actually in the process of getting my studer ready for possible sale, so I've got one eye on the anamod and another on an all-tube summing bus. Ahh, the agonies of a gearslut!


Gregory Scott - ubk


Gregory Scott - ubk

Hey Greg who makes the all tube summing bus?

What kind of studer you have up for sale? or will sell?

Not I, I just got a virtually unused Ampex AG 440C with new 1/2" heads. Yes, its more work than the anamod. But tape needs me.

I have heard of guys retiring their tape machines. What is the exact reason? Money? Maintenance? Sound? Curious to know.
Old 10th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1484
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k ➡️
You're totally right. If your methodology involves using tape as a simple processor, something that your signal passes thru on its way to the daw, then yes, the anamod and tape serve the same function there.

Where the anamod and tape differ is in tape's ability to be the storage medium itself.

You asked what my post had to do with the anamod, which is a fair question, and the truth is it didn't have much of anything to do with it. I only meant to address the sidebar where someone proposed that tape was superior to the anamod because it allows you to 'stay pure' with no a/d, and he was accused of failing to grasp the basic reality that all music hits a converter at some point. IMO his point was misunderstood, so I stepped in to clarify what the implications were from my perspective.

I'm actually in the process of getting my studer ready for possible sale, so I've got one eye on the anamod and another on an all-tube summing bus. Ahh, the agonies of a gearslut!


Gregory Scott - ubk


Gregory Scott - ubk
i think sometimes people forget that one of the benefits of tape is that your recording to an analog medium. if only there was an analog storage medium outthere other than tape.....ill keep dreaming for a long time yet.
Old 10th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1485
Lives for gear
 
DONNX's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbianco ➡️
i think sometimes people forget that one of the benefits of tape is that your recording to an analog medium. if only there was an analog storage medium outthere other than tape.....ill keep dreaming for a long time yet.

Analog tape is still used by the FBI, other branches of the government, for critical (data) archiving and recording. Hard Disk, CDs, DVDs, are total Shxt for archiving. Totally unreliable.

It scares me that I have so much stuff on Hard Drives and Discs. It could get all creamed one day. I had hard drives just drop dead and lost lots of good data. One reason why I bought my Ampex. Archiving. I think all my DAT, ADAT tapes are still good to go!
Old 10th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1486
Lives for gear
 
Fleaman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DONNX ➡️
Analog tape is still used by the FBI, other branches of the government, for critical (data) archiving and recording. Hard Disk, CDs, DVDs, are total Shxt for archiving. Totally unreliable.

It scares me that I have so much stuff on Hard Drives and Discs. It could get all creamed one day. I had hard drives just drop dead and lost lots of good data. One reason why I bought my Ampex. Archiving. I think all my DAT, ADAT tapes are still good to go!
Yet DAT @ ADAT tape are magnetic tape digitally encoded, so it's digital.
Old 11th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1487
Kush Audio
 
u b k's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbianco ➡️
if only there was an analog storage medium outthere other than tape.....ill keep dreaming for a long time yet.

I have that same dream.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 11th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1488
Kush Audio
 
u b k's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DONNX ➡️
Hey Greg who makes the all tube summing bus?

Thermionic.


Quote:
What kind of studer you have up for sale? or will sell?

...

I have heard of guys retiring their tape machines. What is the exact reason?

My Studer a810 is possibly on the block. The reason is simplicity and flow. I'm constantly balancing out my engineer desires with my writer/performer desires, and lately the performer has been getting his way about most things. Streamlining down to hardware on inserts and summing ITB is the path I'm exploring right now, the ability to develop multiple tunes, tracks, and mixes in parallel is very satisfying. Summing ITB is definitely different but what I'm finding is that for every sonic loss there is a sonic gain, and the conveniences are absurdly tilted toward the daw.

But the real true reason I'm probably shifting the Studer is that I'm finding that an all-tube front end feeding the Burls, into a daw with amazing tube and trafo gear hanging on inserts, actually sounds better on a track-to-track basis than any analog setup I've ever owned. If I had 16 tracks of Ampex and an old 2488 it'd be one thing, but that's not practical or sensible for me. The Burls take about 98.9% of the digital 'thing' out of the picture. The battery of tube gear injects tons of life and creates tracks that easily hold up to a few digital processes.

Summing is still the open question for me. At the moment my impression is that ITB summing has less weight and definition on the bottom and less left-to-right width, but it preserves more front-to-back depth and doesn't alter the tone of the mids or top. My tones are sweet, so I'm digging that clarity aspect a lot.

I try never to be beholden to any given path or truth. The instant I discover something doesn't work for me anymore, or something else works better, I begin to shift in that direction, to flow where my understanding leads. If nothing else, it makes the journey more interesting, less routinized.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 11th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1489
Lives for gear
 
DONNX's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JVP ➡️
Wow I haven't been on this thread in a while. It blows me away how much controversy there is over this unit.


What I want to know is who made your diffusor in the back of your studio. That looks awesome!



Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k ➡️
Thermionic.


But the real true reason I'm probably shifting the Studer is that I'm finding that an all-tube front end feeding the Burls, into a daw with amazing tube and trafo gear hanging on inserts, actually sounds better on a track-to-track basis than any analog setup I've ever owned.
If I had 16 tracks of Ampex and an old 2488 it'd be one thing, but that's not practical or sensible for me. The Burls take about 98.9% of the digital 'thing' out of the picture. The battery of tube gear injects tons of life and creates tracks that easily hold up to a few digital processes.

Summing is still the open question for me. At the moment my impression is that ITB summing has less weight and definition on the bottom and less left-to-right width, but it preserves more front-to-back depth and doesn't alter the tone of the mids or top. My tones are sweet, so I'm digging that clarity aspect a lot.

I try never to be beholden to any given path or truth. The instant I discover something doesn't work for me anymore, or something else works better, I begin to shift in that direction, to flow where my understanding leads. If nothing else, it makes the journey more interesting, less routinized.


Gregory Scott - ubk




I am wondering why some big names out there are putting their machines on the block. Of course its hearsay. No facts. But I heard some are retiring them.

No matter what. I am going to enjoy my class A "old chevy" Ampex Ag 440C. I always wanted one with 1/2" tape heads in good condition.

One retired fella, with tons of experience in the industry once asked me. "Don, what music did you like the most for sound quality? Are they songs recorded on tape or digital?" The answer was simple.

I agree . I track the source to Hardware then to digital tracks. It's not bad at all. Then mixing out to a nice console or class A mixer takes it up a notch. And finally, having the option to add more "beef" with a 2 track mix down machine and bus compressor. I like this approach so far.

The burls is something I have been wanting to try. I think I may call vintage king monday and have them send me one for trial. Have you used the UA2192? I have and like it for tracking along with the HEDD. Both have a nice bottom end and warm top more so than any converter I have ever used. I wonder if the Burl is that much better than the 2192? Class A conversion is somethingthumbsup. Forsell is on it as well. I wish somebody would make a 16 channel class A no capacitor converter. Like the burl. That would be killer! And expensive!!
Old 12th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1490
Gear Addict
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Is Scotch 111 a must have?

A question for those who have optional cards:

I ordered a 351 and 102 card. Is 111 a must have. What is it good for and what not so good. Anyone regretted buying 111 ?
Old 12th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1491
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeljko ➡️
A question for those who have optional cards:

I ordered a 351 and 102 card. Is 111 a must have. What is it good for and what not so good. Anyone regretted buying 111 ?
I bought 111 card and so far I used it for nothing ... A tiny bit more distortion than the others. For me not worth having bought it
Old 12th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1492
Gear Addict
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Ivo, Thanks !
Old 12th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1493
Lives for gear
 
WunderBro Flo's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeljko ➡️
A question for those who have optional cards:

I ordered a 351 and 102 card. Is 111 a must have. What is it good for and what not so good. Anyone regretted buying 111 ?
Very useful card, much more useful on single instruments than on full mixes. This one really really alters the sound, by far the most action imho. On bassy sources too much bass breakup but great with a pre and de-emphasis eq to avoid this, if you do not have a buzz problem. Imho the 111 characteristics change a lot when using different machine cards, lots of possibilities.
Rock on!
Pat
Old 13th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1494
Gear Addict
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Hi Pat, thanks for the info.

So, you like 111 card.More than the stock ones?
Old 13th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1495
Lives for gear
 
Ari-M.'s Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I like they fact that they called it a tape SIMULATOR....which implies that it is not in fact tape....kudos to these guys for not making the wild claim that this is exactly like tape and will replace tape....especially since it involves no mylar smeared with glue and iron oxide....


on that note....I still think analog tape sounds like sh!t....but don't tell my tape machines that, they might get pissed and stop talking to me




P.S. I have a great idea for a tape simulator....how about an EQ that just has the NAB, IEC, AES etc... curves pre-programmed into it....and then those programs shift slightly with different "tape speed" settings....and then throw some vacume tubes in the path with a variable bias circuit....then get some really powerful/variable electro magnets and stick those on the transformers....allow us to swing the magnetic fields and bias in relation to input gain, and power supply voltage......or is that what the anamod already is?

I suppose either way it will sound totally different than what you feed into it....just like a tape machine.....kinda funny....you would think that if you capture the exact sound you want in a room, that you wouldn't want to alter it by putting it on tape...or running it through anything else that TOTALLY changes the overall sound

it's kind of why I like hard drives as storage mediums....neutral converters...transparent monitoring chain....then all i have to worry about is tuning quality instruments in the room, and selecting the mic's and pre's I want....and then the musicians play with controlled dynamics

it's a nice dream anyhow
Old 13th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1496
Lives for gear
 
OurDarkness's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Can the ATS-1 be used to fatten up synths? I have heard that it weakens the bass a bit and that there might be better choices, such as a Juggonaut (whatever it's called).

Anyone care to comment?
Old 13th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1497
Lives for gear
 
WunderBro Flo's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeljko ➡️
Hi Pat, thanks for the info.

So, you like 111 card.More than the stock ones?
I do not like the stock GP9 card, too boring, same with the stock M79 machine card. I like the 456 tape card when I am going for a more audible tapesound and the 111 whenever I want really lots of character, there is no better or worse in this case. However to get this enourmous amount of character out of the 111 card without totally fuzzing out the bass is by applying a bass cut before and bas bost after the ATS1. To me the 111 card is a fantastic addition cause the other tape cards simply can´t go as deep into saturation as the scotch card - it can sound way "older" than the other cards.

Rock on!
Pat
Old 13th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1498
Lives for gear
 
exwel's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by OurDarkness ➡️
Can the ATS-1 be used to fatten up synths? I have heard that it weakens the bass a bit and that there might be better choices, such as a Juggonaut (whatever it's called).

Anyone care to comment?
I use it all the time to warm synths up!!
Love it.
Old 13th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1499
Lives for gear
 
DONNX's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by exwel ➡️
I use it all the time to warm synths up!!
Love it.

I just give my synths a nice warm hug. Works every time!
Old 14th April 2010 | Show parent
  #1500
Lives for gear
 
heyman's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DONNX ➡️
I just give my synths a nice warm hug. Works every time!
I own both the anamod and fatso- They both work great for that.
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