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Hammond organ sounds like a poorly looped sample of a hammond organ...
Old 19th September 2012
  #1
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Hammond organ sounds like a poorly looped sample of a hammond organ...

Yep.. you read that right.

I have a 1948 Hammond M model i'm restoring, or about to. Everything actually works. EVERYTHING. However, when played, either manual or the foot pedals, on EVERY configuration (ie, all drawbars, vibrato on vibrato off, etc..) the organ sounds like a very badly looped sample of itself. You get the " toooooone,hick,tooooone,hick, toooooone" kinda thing going on. NOT really motorboating as I understand it, but it just actually sounds like a casio sampled version, VERY BADLY LOOPED of an organ. Interestingly, the frequency of the hick, or drop out, or whatever, is approximately the frequency of the vibrato. But with vibrato on, it sounds like a flawless vibrato on a casio badly looped...

you get the idea...

I've no idea where to start. Anybody have any thoughts? remember, it's on EVERY not, every keyboard, every possible setting.

PLEASE HELP!

I want to give this old boy another shot at the big time! haha...

K
Old 19th September 2012
  #2
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KRStudio's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I would start with the tubes. They can really become flat sounding after years and years of use. Also are you running it to a Leslie or just using the stock speakers?
Old 19th September 2012
  #3
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3 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Definitely swap out some tubes and given the age of the organ you are going to want to change the power caps. It's hard (expensive) to get the exact values but you can just round up to the nearest capacitance value for them.

If you vibrato circuit sounds like its working, then it's probably ok. You might want to check the power amp tubes (I think they were 6v6) and the rectifier tube first.

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Old 20th September 2012
  #4
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🎧 15 years
The first thing I would do would be to oil the tonewheel shafts at the lube points. Sounds like possible bad bearings or motor for the tonewheel.
Old 20th September 2012
  #5
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🎧 5 years
If you haven't oiled it yet definitely do that first. Use the real Hammond oil so that you don't gum up your tone wheels. Let the oil sit for a couple weeks in the organ to give it time to work thru all the gears.

However, if it was a lack of oil you would hear some grinding noises from the motor and tone wheels.

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Old 21st September 2012
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Maybe Casio does a really good job of sampling a Hammond!
Old 23rd September 2012
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
hey
im going to ask the obvious question.... are you familiar with leslies?
please excuse me if this sounds arrogant.
i once had a friend buying an m3 and he also felt that it was broken and dull sounding. he didnt even know what a leslie was :-)

ps: also play with your drawbars. a direct m3 can sound like a toy when used with the wrong settings.
Old 25th September 2012
  #8
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
A trip to organforum.com might also be worthwhile. I haven't seen too much bad info here, but people over there are much more Hammond-centered. I know several Hammond techs who offer lots of advice and might be more helpful in pinpointing your issue. I know I've been helped quite a bit.

But in case you want to stay here, I'll ask the general starter questions:
1) It goes 'toooooone,hick,tooooone,hick, toooooone'. That's definitely not motorboating (which would be a "flupflupflupflupflup" kinda deal). If I'm hearing your description correctly, the tone is cutting out. Is that right? Also, does the 'hick'ing happen on all tones or just some?
2) What speaker is the organ hooked up to? As others have said, Hammonds through internal speakers sound very different from Hammonds through Leslies. I have an M-111 (same as M3 with more stuff added on) that sounds kinda cheesy without the Leslie attached. Hell, my A-100 sounds cheesy without a Leslie.
3) If you have a Leslie, as you sure it's not the Leslie?
4) When was the last time it was oiled?


Tubes in Hammonds are rarely an issue, though I don't know enough to rule them out. They don't get driven like guitar amp tubes so they can oftentimes be just fine.
Oiling it is always a good idea, but usually that fixes mechanical noises (grinding) coming out of the back or missing tones. I think if the generator was getting caught up, there'd be more of an issue.
Recapping the PS is always a good idea (and sometimes fixes odd problems), just make sure you know about tube amp safety before sticking your fingers in there.


Hope that helps!
Old 25th September 2012
  #9
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🎧 10 years
With the vibrato on is the "hick" at the same point in the vibrato every time - like at the top or bottom of a sweep? That might give you a place to start since you said it was about the same frequency. Maybe a bad cap in the vibrato circuit.
Old 26th September 2012
  #10
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brianroth's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I kept expecting to hear a sound sample vs. explanations such as "hick" "flup flup" etc.

<g>

Bri
Old 26th September 2012 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianroth ➑️
I kept expecting to hear a sound sample vs. explanations such as "hick" "flup flup" etc.

<g>

Bri
true, the op should simply record a snipped and upload it. im sure people can help with that info.
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #12
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianroth ➑️
I kept expecting to hear a sound sample vs. explanations such as "hick" "flup flup" etc.

<g>

Bri

Quote:
Originally Posted by salomonander ➑️
true, the op should simply record a snipped and upload it. im sure people can help with that info.

Aww, you guys are trying to make it too easy
Old 27th September 2012
  #13
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mjrippe's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
This is what it sounds like.
Attached Files

Hammond.mp3 (67.5 KB, 493 views)

Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #14
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjrippe ➑️
This is what it sounds like.

Exactly how I imagined it
Old 27th September 2012
  #15
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Sotsirc's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjrippe ➑️
This is what it sounds like.
Oh my ... so funny.
Old 27th September 2012
  #16
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjrippe ➑️
This is what it sounds like.
Whats the best vst for emulating that sound?
Old 29th September 2012
  #17
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KRStudio's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Damn it! I have coffee all over my monitor!!!!!! That was funny.
Old 29th September 2012 | Show parent
  #18
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mjrippe's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubmunkey ➑️
Whats the best vst for emulating that sound?
It's called BoredTech from Should Be Working Software

But seriously, any progress with the problem?
Old 30th September 2012 | Show parent
  #19
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Jazz Noise's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjrippe ➑️
This is what it sounds like.
Jesus! Never heard an organ make that sound before!

I just had a look through the manual of an old A100 and the vibrato seems to be essentialy a stepped motor connected to various all-pass stages. Seems like a very expensive way to do it but I guess it sounds good!

My advice would be to find this motor, check the motor contacts using a continuity tester and then find the LRC networks it's connected to and scoure it for bad caps. Considering the small values involved, replacing them all would make sense and wouldn't cost you a whole lot.

http://theatreorgans.com/hammond/faq/a-100/schem1.jpg
Old 30th September 2012
  #20
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
To add to Jazz Noise's post:

The vibrato scanner is attached to the run motor. If you're looking at the organ from behind, it's the assembly on the left-hand side. The run motor is usually a rectangle-shaped brick-looking thing, and the vibrato scanner is the circular piece attached behind it.

The vibrato line box (where the circuit is) is usually a longer rectangle box attached to the underside of the top of the organ with the components (usually) exposed where you can see them.

Hope that helps!
Old 12th October 2012
  #21
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3 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Any news on your m? were you able to fix its sound?

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Old 12th October 2012
  #22
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3 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Recapping the whole console is actually not that good of an idea.. A lot of the caps in the circuit contribute to the tone and replacing them can really alter the sound in an undesirable way.

Definitely replacing the caps in the power supply is highly recommended, and if he changes the tubes he will probably have a good sounding organ. Maybe $100 or so in tubes and parts and a couple of hours of time.

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Old 13th October 2012 | Show parent
  #23
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by enginefire ➑️
Recapping the whole console is actually not that good of an idea.. A lot of the caps in the circuit contribute to the tone and replacing them can really alter the sound in an undesirable way.

Definitely replacing the caps in the power supply is highly recommended, and if he changes the tubes he will probably have a good sounding organ. Maybe $100 or so in tubes and parts and a couple of hours of time.

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^This (bolded by me). Especially on the tone generator, those caps are very finicky and you don't wanna mess around there unless you know what you're doing. I know of several people who got a little too gung-ho and recapped the generator thinking they'd make it like new. Instead they now own a very nice looking and horrible sounding piece of furniture.

But yeah, power supply caps definitely need replacing. Tubes, maybe not. Hammonds don't drive em like guitar amps (I say that even though just today I was fixing a friend's Hammond whose 5AR4 died). I know several owners of the earliest of Hammond consoles who are still using the original tubes with success. Go for the PS caps before the tubes
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