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Reverb sound test: Relab LX480, EA R2, NI RC48, VVV - Trumpet in a hall
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #61
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🎧 5 years
Edit: The Reverb Beard – The Halls of Valhalla

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMR ➑️
It's great to see all the develloper's of reverb chiming in . A big happy, healthy community !
Indeed. I mentioned these in a Valhalla thread, but I think all the reverb developers that have posted here and a few others deserve what I would call the Reverberati Award, and rather than a trophy, should be presented with special edition Reverberati Beardos (modified with ear holes, of course):



Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Souter ➑️
My roomate at USC back in the day had a "Maine Coon Cat". Legend is that it is part bobcat I think?? As mentioned, I'm not really a huge cat person, (I prefer dogs), but that was admittedly one cool animal!
Yeah, "gentle giants." I have a big diabetic cat that's a good percentage Maine Coon, unfortunately he's also got some "not so gentle" heritage. He does pretty good with the twice-daily injections, but I have plenty of scars from trying to groom him. I believe they are part Norwegian Forest Cat, that I think came to Maine as mousers on ships. Some kind of North American wildcat would make sense. Norwegian Forest Cats were supposed to have also sailed on Viking ships, so there's finally a route back to Valhalla, and thereby, reverbs!
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #62
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by poshook ➑️
little OT: hey guys (developers). now when we have a couple high quality reverbs really comparable with expansive hw gear,
what about hi quality EQ that null its hw counterpart
I know pretty much NOTHING about EQs. Anything good I know about EQs, I learned from people who know far more about EQs than I do, such as Jonathan Abel and David Berners of Universal Audio. My strengths are in designing delay based algorithms (including reverbs), modulation effects, and other things that make things sound DIFFERENT, as opposed to just better. I've done some compressor designs in the past, but I would need to do some serious wood shed time before I release a compressor.

Some of the other developers in this thread might have some great ideas for EQs. As far as me...I just do eyes!

Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp69 ➑️
I have just seen and downloaded the wave files - any particular reason why the Reverb 4 wave file is different compared to the Reverb 4 file on sound cloud?
Ah, yes, I should mention that - I made WAV files today (rendering) so results may (slightly) vary. I can upload original (sent to soundcloud) mp3 HiQ if You want
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #64
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
So, what are the answers?
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #65
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drBill's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMR ➑️
Now who has a real 480 that can post which sounds closest to the real thing..
Mine's been gone a few years now, but I'm still waiting for a brave soul to do a hardware vs software test. I haven't seen it yet.....
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #66
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Andrew Souter's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by antithesist ➑️
Indeed. I mentioned these in a Valhalla thread, but I think all the reverb developers that have posted here and a few others deserve what I would call the Reverberati Award, and rather than a trophy, should be presented with special edition Reverberati Beardos (modified with ear holes, of course):

A great idea. I could use it, as you can see from my progress from 2012 to 2013... (Though the uniform is about spot on!)

I thought that stress was supposed to make it grow faster... So I assumed I might make some headway while we worked on 64-bit OSX support... but alas it only kicked Denis and my asses, and left my wanna-be Reverberati-beard non the fuller...

I tried the porno-stache, but it didn't help. It only made me gravitate towards the ideas Sean used in his 70s mode...



hehhehheh

(ok that's enough fun with the internet for one day... )
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #67
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Souter ➑️
A great idea. I could use it, as you can see from my progress from 2012 to 2013... (Though the uniform is about spot on!)

I thought that stress was supposed to make it grow faster... So I assumed I might make some headway while we worked on 64-bit OSX support... but alas it only kicked Denis and my asses, and left my wanna-be Reverberati-beard non the fuller...

I tried the porno-stache, but it didn't help. It only made me gravitate towards the ideas Sean used in his 70s mode...

Nah, that mustache is more modern. You would need a little more width on the sides, and would have to lose the soulpatch, in order to get into the 1970s mode.

The 1970s mode wasn't inspired by facial hair, so much as this:



Orange interior with orange shag carpeting. Bumper sticker that says "If This Van's A'Rockin', WE'RE F***IN'!!!" (that last part isn't true) We just gave the Chinook to a deserving hippie couple, but the spirit lives on in the VeeThree GUI.

It is worth noting that the above photo was taken in our driveway. Parts of Seattle are more forest than city.

I feel for you in that 64-bit OSX photo. That will be me in a little while, when I port to AAX.

My reverb beard used to come in red, which made me look like Kris Kringle from "Santa Claus Is Coming To Town." Which made me (and my wife) think of Mickey Rooney singing about kids sitting on his lap and paying a kiss per toy. Which is all kinds of creepy. Now there is some grey in the beard, so vanity keeps me from growing one.

I think this latest generation of reverb devs is largely clean shaven, or neatly trimmed beards, as opposed to the mighty ZZ Top reverb beards of yore.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #68
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Andrew Souter's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by seancostello ➑️
I feel for you in that 64-bit OSX photo. That will be me in a little while, when I port to AAX.
oh ya.... that...

damnit, I was in a good mood.

We need a New World Order run by Reverberati where there is only ONE global plug-in format and it does not change all the time...
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #69
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Matt Allison's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
1 is beautiful.

I've only tried 1 of these plugs, but I'm still gonna guess based on what I've read and what they're modeled on.

1. Relab LX 480
2. EA R2
3. VVV
4. RC 48
Old 26th January 2013
  #70
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Arksun's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I have no idea which is which as I haven't demoed any of them yet, so I'm simply going to list the order of preference.

1
4
3
2

Loved 1. 1 and 4 sounded the most natural like a real space. 2 and 3 seemed to have the sound bounce left to right in the decay with slightly longer sense of predelay, especially 2 in that regard.
Old 26th January 2013
  #71
Gear Maniac
 
Brian @ IK's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
It appears to me that most people are responding to programming instead of the actual qualities of the reverbs. 1 and 4 have more chorusing, so they sound "more expensive" than the others in many people's minds. #4 is significantly louder and longer than the others, which again are more psychoacoustic cues that translate to "better" to the listener. It looks like people are falling for well documented placebos when they as audio professionals really should know better.

This test seems to actually only test the OP's ability to match reverb settings across some very disparate reverb plugins with varying depths of editability that do not all have easily recognizable correlations between parameters. And as that test goes, I would have to award fairly low marks. Also points are lost for leaving out CSR.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #72
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Matt Allison's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian @ IK ➑️
It appears to me that most people are responding to programming instead of the actual qualities of the reverbs.
I don't respond to programming.

#1 was immediately gratifying to listen to. I thought it sounded markedly better than the others. And that's all that should matter when making my decision to use or purchase something.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #73
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Just had a listen to the wav files in my studio. These verbs were setup too differently to be a proper sound test.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #74
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Allison ➑️
I don't respond to programming.

#1 was immediately gratifying to listen to. I thought it sounded markedly better than the others. And that's all that should matter when making my decision to use or purchase something.
It's because it's longer and more modulated. That's always going to flatter a monophonic source playing in isolation.
Old 26th January 2013
  #75
Gear Maniac
 
Brian @ IK's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Well Matt, I do not believe #1 is LX480, so you will likely be disappointed. But it is OK, because you were merely responding to the programming, not the reverb qualities. I'm not sure if #1 is NI or R2 (don't really know these verbs well enough), but I can almost guarantee you that #4 is Valhalla, because of the volume and room size which is going to not match up easily with the others because of design differences (how do you set a room size of "38m" in VVV?)

If I had to make a guess, it would be that #1 is NI. It is based on the assumption that the OP left most parameters at default and NI setup the reverb defaults for heavy chorusing for an immediate "wow" factor.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #76
GMR
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🎧 15 years
That is a good point actually, and the real test is not in these pointless comparisons but to try it at home for yourself and tweak each reverb the way you want to see if it feels good in your mix or the way you want it to sound... all i know is relab and NI are giving me sounds i have never heard ( apart from albums ) or been able to achieve before from any other plugin i've tried in the past !!!
Old 27th January 2013
  #77
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Just repeating what everyone else seems to think, but I also like 1,4 best. 4 is my overall favourite. 2 is my least favourite.

EDIT: Seems I the was charmed by chorus! Would be very cool with a test where you tried to match the reverbs as closely as possible.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #78
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian @ IK ➑️
If I had to make a guess, it would be that #1 is NI. It is based on the assumption that the OP left most parameters at default and NI setup the reverb defaults for heavy chorusing for an immediate "wow" factor.
The RC48 doesn't chorus at all. It uses the "random" modulation of the 480L, which doesn't produce the chorusing effect that can be heard with delay interpolation. So I doubt that the RC48 is example #1.
Old 27th January 2013
  #79
Gear Maniac
 
Brian @ IK's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Sean, I probably should have said "modulation" then. I was using "chorusing" more broadly. Based on your listening, would you generally agree or disagree with my conclusions?
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #80
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
I like 1# and 4# most, in this context 1 do the best job here. - just like to know how to set the "others" to realize the result of 1#, which of them can do and what are the required settings then...
Old 27th January 2013
  #81
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Beatworld's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by seancostello ➑️
So I doubt that the RC48 is example #1.
Can we prise a Vee3 selection out of you Sean?
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #82
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian @ IK ➑️
Sean, I probably should have said "modulation" then. I was using "chorusing" more broadly. Based on your listening, would you generally agree or disagree with my conclusions?
I would disagree with your NI48 conclusion for #1. The random modulation sounds a lot different than delay modulation, and I can clearly hear delay modulation in examples #1 and #4. I agree with your broader conclusions, that the specific parameter programming for the examples is having a big impact on people's evaluation of the sound.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #83
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatworld ➑️
Can we prise a Vee3 selection out of you Sean?
I always goof up on these things, but I'd say that #4 is VeeThree - although I would turn the Mod Rate down. The modulation in #1 doesn't really sound like what I use in Vee3, so I am going to guess that is R2. Which I haven' t heard, but I know it does chorusing, including a mode that (from the description) seems more like "detuning" than the random modulation used in ValhallaVintageVerb.

Examples 2 and 3 aren't really chorused, so I would guess that these are from RC48 and LX480. The LX480 does have delay modulation in some of its modes, but I don't know if those are enabled by default, so I am going to guess that the LX480 is in Random Hall mode. This has nothing to do with the sonic quality of the examples or plugins, so much as making an educated guess based on the artifacts I hear and the settings that are most likely to be used for this example.
Old 27th January 2013
  #84
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Beatworld's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by seancostello ➑️
I always goof up on these things, but I'd say that #4 is VeeThree - although I would turn the Mod Rate down. The modulation in #1 doesn't really sound like what I use in Vee3, so I am going to guess that is R2.
I'm prepared to throw caution to the wind go with your "goof up" Sean.
This is an interesting exercise and for me highlights how much I don't REALLY know about reverb.
I just listened to the 4 again but just on my iPhone, rather than in my studio.
All 4 do the job of providing impressive reverb when compared to the dry version.
We are spoilt.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #85
Gear Maniac
 
Brian @ IK's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by seancostello ➑️
I would disagree with your NI48 conclusion for #1. The random modulation sounds a lot different than delay modulation, and I can clearly hear delay modulation in examples #1 and #4. I agree with your broader conclusions, that the specific parameter programming for the examples is having a big impact on people's evaluation of the sound.
OK, I can accept that. As I said, I'm not familiar with the NI and R2 verbs, so that guess was just a 50/50 stab based on pure speculation. This would mean then that #1 is R2. 2 & 3 sound pretty similar to me, so it would make sense that they are the two modeled on the 480L. But again, without any hands on experience with the NI verb, it would be a tough call for me which one it is.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #86
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1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Thanks for doing the test! Fun.

I think
1. R2
2. RC48
3. LX480
4. VVV

Can't really say which I like best. I haven't ever tried the NI one, it could be the way it was set up but it seemed to sit flatter than 3 thus thats why I thought the NI may be 2.

1 definitely sounds modern to me, and yes chorusey, very nice but I find myself liking modern shiny reverbs less and less. (Thanks Sean!). Though it does sound really good. Congrats to Michael on the clear victory over his previous work (Lex PCM). The tail is much more sparkly and alive than what he did with the PCM set. 4 definitely sounds like Sean's particular brand of grain, and I mean that in the best way. Long live the grain of a good digital reverb. Again, can't really say what I like best. Samples don't really bring out the 3d potential of a reverb to me.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #87
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anguswoodhead's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos ➑️
1 definitely sounds modern to me, and yes chorusey, very nice but I find myself liking modern shiny reverbs less and less. (Thanks Sean!). Though it does sound really good. Congrats to Michael on the clear victory over his previous work (Lex PCM). The tail is much more sparkly and alive than what he did with the PCM set. 4 definitely sounds like Sean's particular brand of grain, and I mean that in the best way. Long live the grain of a good digital reverb. Again, can't really say what I like best. Samples don't really bring out the 3d potential of a reverb to me.
Hey mate - still loving the Gyraf EQ I bought off you - hope you're well.

Showing my lack of knowledge here but...
Sean who? and which verb did he design?
And Michael who? (he did the Lexi PCM's - didn't know who did them)
What is his new verb?
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #88
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1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by anguswoodhead ➑️
Hey mate - still loving the Gyraf EQ I bought off you - hope you're well.

Showing my lack of knowledge here but...
Sean who? and which verb did he design?
And Michael who? (he did the Lexi PCM's - didn't know who did them)
What is his new verb?
Great! Thats a great eq. Sean Costello did VVV, (Valhalla Vintage Verb) which I guessed was #4. Michael Carnes did the 2 new Exponential Audio verbs (R2 which I guessed as #1). He used to be the programmer at Lexicon, and did most (?) of the 960 code and PCM 96/92 as well as the PCM Native plugins.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #89
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Beatworld's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Souter ➑️
my progress from 2012 to 2013...

Bad Idea...or...Breaking Bad lab cap
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #90
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anguswoodhead's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos ➑️
Great! Thats a great eq. Sean Costello did VVV, (Valhalla Vintage Verb) which I guessed was #4. Michael Carnes did the 2 new Exponential Audio verbs (R2 which I guessed as #1). He used to be the programmer at Lexicon, and did most (?) of the 960 code and PCM 96/92 as well as the PCM Native plugins.
Cool - thanks mate.
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