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Reverb sound test: Relab LX480, EA R2, NI RC48, VVV - Trumpet in a hall - Page 2 - Gearspace.com
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Reverb sound test: Relab LX480, EA R2, NI RC48, VVV - Trumpet in a hall
Old 26th January 2013
  #31
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feck's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
On my cheap TV/entertainment soundsystem I dig #4. That being said, they all sound good and useable to me on this little system. We sure are spoiled with a lot of great choices these days!
Old 26th January 2013
  #32
1. @alvinphoto&sound: "post lossless files"

Here You are:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/71637038/REV...VERBS_TEST.zip

2. Fred Abstract: "4 seems louder making it hard to judge when comparing to others "

Alll reverbs were set to have the same level, same mix (40 percent). All reverbs process the same source. Of course - it's not the perfect way, because every of those plugins is a different beast. So - I agree - it's not a lab test. But You can still download the files and match their levels if You want to.

3. @spip "I have the feeling that the settings are not really the same"

I tried to match as many settings as I could, but it's not a mystery that those plugins vary when it comes to level of control. So - the presets are not _exactly_ the same, they cannot be. But they don't have to be the same to judge the quality IMO.

And last but not least: thanks all replies in this thread. They are very interesting! And they will be even more interesting when I reveal which reverb is which
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #33
GMR
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🎧 15 years
4 1 2 3


I'm demo-ing two of these right now rc 48 and relab...both sound good, tail of Rc48 a bit more metallic than 480lx on the preset i was comparing

Haven't tried R2.....

2 and 3 sound more detached to the sound!

Relab and rc48 don't have that detached feeling to em , so my guess is

1 relab
4 rc48
2 r2
3vvv



Now who has a real 480 that can post which sounds closest to the real thing..
Old 26th January 2013
  #34
Gear Head
 
AmbientMonkey's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Everyone does like 1 and 4, because it obviously have longer decay, even if parameters are the same, it still have longer decay
and my guess is, that both 1 and 4 are NI and VVV, it doesn't matter, which one is which, 4 sounds more upfront, so let it be a NI
Old 26th January 2013
  #35
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
I like sample 1

I'm guessing :

3 Ableton reverb
4 2caudio B2

Thanks for the samples.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #36
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Valhalla VVV could be 1 or 4 because of the loose bloom/tail
Relab Lx480 could be 2 or 3 because of its tapey 'gooeyness' which makes it wrap around it

from listening on my laptop:

1 EA R2
2 NI RC48
3 Relab LX480
4 VVV

that smooth legato melody doesn't make it easier
Old 26th January 2013
  #37
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🎧 15 years
They are very different.

#1 and #4 use extreme amount of linear interpolation (chorusing) as modulation. They would fail the piano test - far from realistic, but the heavy chorusing sounds nice. They also have longer reverberation time. This sound is like the Lexicon 224. I believe R2 and VVV both use chorusing as modulation.

#2 and #3 both keeps the original frequencies unaltered. Far more realistic reverberation and they would not have any problems with the piano test. They also have shorter reverberation time. They might sound boring because they lack the heavy chorusing. The Random Hall exist in both NI and in Relab.

This is a test of : chorusing vs non-chorusing. You could use NI24 and the Hall from LX480 with chorus for better comparison. Why use different modulation when you actually could use the same modulation type on all?

For the LX480 Complete - use the same settings, but change the algorithm to Hall. Set the Chorus type to 7 (negative values are more chaotic). And set Rate and Depth to something like 25 / 50 (or something completely different). Since R2 and VVV use linear interporlation they will have additional lowpass filtering when the modulation is active. This doesn't happen in the LX480 Complete Hall which retain the frequenices - so to mimic the extra filtering associated with linear interpolation you need to set TFT (Time) to 12dB instead of 6dB.

Regarding the NI24 - unfortunately I'm unable to get it to work, so I can't help you there.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp69 ➑️
They are very different.

This is a test of : chorusing vs non-chorusing. You could use NI24 and the Hall from LX480 with chorus for better comparison. For the LX480 Complete - use the same settings, but change (...)
Thank you very much for Your reply, I will post sound example of Relab LX480 with those exact settings at post 1st on sunday evening
Old 26th January 2013
  #39
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
In this test number 1 is my favourite, altho the trumpet is pushed back far more than in the other examples. After that comes nr.4.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #40
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_After ➑️
Thank you very much for Your reply, I will post sound example of Relab LX480 with those exact settings at post 1st on sunday evening
You might have to experiment a bit - probably with much higher settings for the modulation since #1 has heavy pitch modulation.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #41
39940
Guest
1 and 4 seem wetter than 2 and 3 ,

reasons why seemed to be spoken above. Nice source for the test.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christof ➑️
What I found when testing V3 and LX480 myself was, that you CAN'T just copy the settings - ESPECIALLY the Dry/Wet. The level of the reverb tail is significally different. So you will get one sound with the reverb tail being much louder and the other with the tail more in the background and the source sounding up front. It's not at all easy to compare those two at least. Now we got four of them here in this test...

LX480 has been modeled according to an original unit and warp has pointed out, that the reverb time parameter of the original unit is not quite right, but differs from the numbers in the display - and the LX480 does the same. One more difference probably.

So yeah - it's a good idea to do some test files - but I'm rather sceptical if it will tell us which ones are better than the others.
I think the main reason why the settings can't be copied is because they're different sounding verbs with R2 sounding the most "un Lexicon"!
R2 sounds nothing like LX480 and Vee3 and vice versa.LX480 and Vee3 have a similar sound to my ears but definitely not the same.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #43
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmbientMonkey ➑️
Everyone does like 1 and 4, because it obviously have longer decay, even if parameters are the same, it still have longer decay
and my guess is, that both 1 and 4 are NI and VVV, it doesn't matter, which one is which, 4 sounds more upfront, so let it be a NI
true , it s more about the reverb that have these settings suiting best the source than what reverb is used here, it's really tricky to a/b reverbs.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #44
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by henge ➑️
I think the main reason why the settings can't be copied is because they're different sounding verbs with R2 sounding the most "un Lexicon"!
R2 sounds nothing like LX480 and Vee3 and vice versa.LX480 and Vee3 have a similar sound to my ears but definitely not the same.
yes but i think it could maybe be closer, the test was not aimed to get the verbs close by sound if i m right, but made by using the same settings.
Old 26th January 2013
  #45
Gear Head
 
TakeABow's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I like #4 the best, and #1 a little less. Both of those I like quite a bit more than #2 and #3.

I don't own any of these software verbs, so I'm excited to see which one wins.

Any chance you could throw a couple other samples through the same gamut? Maybe a drumloop and an acoustic guitar?
Old 26th January 2013
  #46
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🎧 10 years
Just love the results , comments , before the results posting , to get in conjonction of what i heard and read on the NI VR thread ....and how many cats told that they do not sound expensive ...lol love blind tests ....always the truth ...

Thks to the OP for the effort ....
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #47
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🎧 10 years
could I join the party and make a submission or two?

for your consideration:

5:
http://www.2caudio.com/temp/TRUMPET_REVERB_5.wav

just a touch more HFs:
http://www.2caudio.com/temp/TRUMPET_REVERB_5b.wav

6:
http://www.2caudio.com/temp/TRUMPET_REVERB_6.wav

I spent about 5min on this, and did not try to match anything exactly, but I attempted to follow preset guidelines given including mix 40% etc.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #48
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeezo ➑️
Just love the results , comments , before the results posting , to get in conjonction of what i heard and read on the NI VR thread ....and how many cats told that they do not sound expensive ...lol love blind tests ....always the truth ...

Thks to the OP for the effort ....
How do expensive cats sound? (still wishing for a Jeezo decoder ring)
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #49
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by antithesist ➑️
How do expensive cats sound?
like this:

Cats 101: Egyptian Mau : Video : Animal Planet



wait... i'm completely wrong about that (not really a cat person)... try this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu-pDYClOlA

$20 to $100k! WTF??

hmmmm, one could buy a cat... or this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPqM4Mjw8Zk

AND maybe even half of one of these: http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/911-turbo-s/

I think I would go for the later combination... ;-)
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #50
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🎧 5 years
Cool: the fastest domesticated cat. I had no idea. I have a big mutt cat that my vet tells me has "wildcat in him." He acts more like a dog most of the time, has ear tufts, and markings like the Mau. Maybe expensive cats sound like Bricastis if that's a Bengal in Casey's lap. I got to see some big Savannahs at the vet awhile back when I was unfortunately having one of my older guys put down. I think I understand Jeezo's comment now, too. OK, back to the test.

Edit: I remembered that they were big Servals, not Savannahs, though I've seen those along with pet Bobcats, etc. at this vet since she is "cats only." I foster/hospice several special needs animals in addition to a few of my own.
Old 26th January 2013
  #51
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🎧 15 years
I have just seen and downloaded the wave files - any particular reason why the Reverb 4 wave file is different compared to the Reverb 4 file on sound cloud?
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #52
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp69 ➑️
They are very different.

#1 and #4 use extreme amount of linear interpolation (chorusing) as modulation. They would fail the piano test - far from realistic, but the heavy chorusing sounds nice. They also have longer reverberation time. This sound is like the Lexicon 224. I believe R2 and VVV both use chorusing as modulation.

#2 and #3 both keeps the original frequencies unaltered. Far more realistic reverberation and they would not have any problems with the piano test. They also have shorter reverberation time. They might sound boring because they lack the heavy chorusing. The Random Hall exist in both NI and in Relab.
ValhallaVintageVerb has a Random Hall-esque algorithm, Random Space. I say "Random Hall-ESQUE" because the algorithm I used for sonic reference, the Reverberation from the 1.10 ROM in my Lex 300, wasn't called "Random Hall." The Lexicon 300 clearly had a different randomization scheme than the chorusing used in earlier Lexicons, but I can't say that it is exactly the same as Random Hall. I didn't exactly model the Lex 300 algorithm - I added denser diffusion with a slower attack time.

Quote:
This is a test of : chorusing vs non-chorusing. You could use NI24 and the Hall from LX480 with chorus for better comparison. Why use different modulation when you actually could use the same modulation type on all?
The chorusing in Example 1 is noticeably different than Example 2 and 3 to my ears.

Quote:
Since R2 and VVV use linear interporlation they will have additional lowpass filtering when the modulation is active.
In ValhallaVintageVerb, this is only true for the 1970s and 1980s modes, where I use linear interpolation in the "appropriate" places to get the desired lowpass filtering. In the NOW mode, the interpolation is much brighter, so no lowpass filtering is obtained. You may want to calibrate your analysis program if you were finding linear interpolation in the NOW mode. heh

Other people have mentioned the difference in decay times for similar settings between the various plugins. Martin has mentioned that he has replicated the decay times in the original 480L, which (from a physical standpoint) have very little to do with the displayed value. This is a characteristic of older Lexicons, with the most comical example in my collection being the LXP15. ValhallaVintageVerb uses a more "scientific" approach for calculating decay times, and I know that the Lexicon PCM plugins that Michael Carnes created had similar behavior, so my guess is that the R2 has a more "scientific" decay as well. I haven't played much with the RC48, but if they accurately modeled the 480L, then the decay times will also be different than the displayed value. This is a long winded way of saying that the displayed decay times aren't that meaningful in such a test, and that you should use your ears to get things as close as possible.

The same goes with the filtering. I haven't tested the RC48 much, but the RC24 has a very different behavior for the HiCut control than the equivalent DAMPING HighFreq control in VintageVerb. This could be due to how things were quantized in the 224, or could be chalked up to the strange behavior of a digital one-pole filter when it gets closer to the internal Nyquist of the plugin (I ran into this issue when developing VeeThree, and chose a different filter type as a result). I wouldn't be surprised if you find the same thing in the LX480 and RC48, as these were designed to replicate the settings of the older Lexicons, as opposed to "physical reality." So, again, things need to be set by ear, perhaps with the help of a plugin that displays frequency response.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #53
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Jeezo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by antithesist ➑️
How do expensive cats sound? (still wishing for a Jeezo decoder ring)
still developpement stage
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #54
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Warp69's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by seancostello ➑️
The chorusing in Example 1 is noticeably different than Example 2 and 3 to my ears.
As I wrote, #1 and #4 have (very) obvious chorusing in the tail. #2 and #3 are different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seancostello ➑️
In ValhallaVintageVerb, this is only true for the 1970s and 1980s modes, where I use linear interpolation in the "appropriate" places to get the desired lowpass filtering. In the NOW mode, the interpolation is much brighter, so no lowpass filtering is obtained. You may want to calibrate your analysis program if you were finding linear interpolation in the NOW mode.
Ah well - I apologize for not mentioning that it's only the 1970s and 1980s modes that have linear interpolation and not the NOW mode heh
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #55
GMR
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🎧 15 years
It's great to see all the develloper's of reverb chiming in . A big happy, healthy community !
Old 26th January 2013
  #56
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🎧 10 years
it's also cool to see that all are pretty good , just a matter of taste at the end as results vary ....

Just pick what you feel , and have fun ....
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #57
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Andrew Souter's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by antithesist ➑️
Edit: I remembered that they were big Servals, not Savannahs, though I've seen those along with pet Bobcats, etc. at this vet since she is "cats only." I foster/hospice several special needs animals in addition to a few of my own.
My roomate at USC back in the day had a "Maine Coon Cat". Legend is that it is part bobcat I think?? As mentioned, I'm not really a huge cat person, (I prefer dogs), but that was admittedly one cool animal!

Btw, it's been scientifically proven that cats prefer windowed sinc interpolation, whereas dogs are less specific and are perfectly content with medium order lagrange -- some less refined breeds even accepting linear so long as you also give them a small bone or piece of steak... ;-)
Old 26th January 2013
  #58
Gear Guru
 
Jeezo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
stop with dat .....lol
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #59
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp69 ➑️
Ah well - I apologize for not mentioning that it's only the 1970s and 1980s modes that have linear interpolation and not the NOW mode heh
No worries! And it was cool to hear that you used a non-lossy interpolation in your modulated LX480 modes. This will keep the frequency response the same as in the original, non-modulated algorithms.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #60
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poshook's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
little OT: hey guys (developers). now when we have a couple high quality reverbs really comparable with expansive hw gear,
what about hi quality EQ that null its hw counterpart
πŸ“ Reply

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