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Avalon Vt 747sp shootout
Old 8th September 2012
  #1
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Avalon Vt 747sp shootout

In another thread where I posted samples of the Avalon Vt 747sp used as a mastering compressor, two people asked if it was not better to start another thread to post samples of the Avalon Vt 747sp. It seems besides the very helpful descriptions of the 747, there is also a need for example soundfiles.

I will try to come up with some examples to show what the 747 can do. Please keep in mind that these examples cannot be compared to examples of other devices unless considering the circumstances of creating the soundfiles (settings, samplerate, DA/AD, cabling and so on).

I will post the dry files along with the same files processed with the 747. A comparison of the dry and processed files hopefully will give you an impression of the character of the 747. To make sure the only difference between the Dry and the processed versions will be the 747 being in or not being in the signal path, I will send the Dry versions rerecorded through the DA, the cables and the AD with the Avalon 747 unplugged.

The files will all be created by myself. If you want to use the dry files for creating example soundfiles with other devices here on GS, please feel free to do so. But please keep in mind that the purpose of these sound files is to show what a device can do. For this reason they may not be what some would see as professional. My hope is, they may still be useful.

(I am not a native english speaker - please correct me, if I use wrong words.)


Example 1 - 747 as a mastering compressor

Please see the following thread: Tube compressor shoot-out: Pendulum ES-8 vs QES Labs Variable-Gm


Example 2 - 747 on a microphone recording of an Acoustic Nylon Guitar

Objective:
Remove the veil (boom and midrange), remove some crispness, keep warm tone and overtones, even out the dynamics.

Comment:
The original sounded too woody and a little cold. I wanted a lighter, more friendly tone. Also the boom in the bass and mids and the crispness of the nylon strings were a little irritating. The bandwidth of the 747s EQ is too wide to selectively filter out the boom without affecting the warmth. The result is a compromise between less boom but not loosing too much of the warm mids. In all other respects the objective was fulfilled. (The dry signal may sound more interesting because it is more upfront, but here the question was, if the 747 is able to fulfill the objective.)


Avalon Settings:
- Input Gain: not too much to avoid the tube overtones muddying the natural overtones, still TSP (tube signal path) warmer than without the TSP
- Compression: Sidechain On set at 180Hz and 3kHz, fast Attack and Release, Ratio 2:1, Threshold set for about max. 2dB gain reduction
- Equalizer: On, slight cut at bass bell and high shelving bands, slight raise at bass shelving and mid bell bands
- Output Gain: used for level matching


Chain:
RME AIO Analog Out (no better DA at this time) > Vovox Cables > Avalon Vt 747sp > Mogami Cables > Forssell MADC-2 > AES/EBU In
Pyramix Native V7
Dry Signal originally recorded @192kHz/32bps; then rerecorded through the chain without the 747 @192kHz/32bps; then downsampled to 44.1kHz/16bps with SRC (Linear Phase Filtering) and Redithering (Requantization to 16 Bit and High Pass Noise Shaping) Mixdown
Wet Signal @192kHz/32bps from Real Time Mixdown; then downsampled to 44.1kHz/16bps with SRC (Linear Phase Filtering) and Redithering (Requantization to 16 Bit and High Pass Noise Shaping) Mixdown
Attached Files

AcGuitar_DryChain.wav (4.32 MB, 5496 views)

AcGuitar_Wet.wav (4.32 MB, 5537 views)


Last edited by SoundKlang; 8th September 2012 at 09:30 PM.. Reason: correction
Old 9th September 2012
  #2
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🎧 5 years
Great thread SoundKlang, hopefully a few people will share their opinions and maybe some sound examples.
To be honest I couldn't hear a lot of difference between the two samples, they both sounded nice, but I am just listening on my Shure headphones. Though with the samples from the other thread I could definitely hear the 747 in action.
More examples would be great!!
Old 9th September 2012
  #3
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Okay, here are more samples.

Example 3 - 747 on a (sampled) Grand Piano

Objective:
Reduce the crispness in the high notes, even out the dynamics, bring the ambience to the foreground without darkening the overall sound.

Comment:
The basic idea was to bring the ambience to the foreground by keeping the compressor permanently working in the first half and then opening up in the end. In the result the ambience was less emphasized than wanted but still okay. For the low compression ratio a lower threshold was necessary and even with the low threshold needed all possible input gain inclusive +10dB option and a raise in level in the DAW was necessary. In the original the high notes were played with high velocity. They were too loud and too crisp. This was reduced by the compression, too.
I am beginning to understand why people wrote about hours of knob tweaking ... this is the best compromise I was able to find and still the compression and the loss in detail is too obvious. Maybe okay for use in a pop arrangement when the piano is masked by other instruments, but probably not for solo piano. Then on the other hand this is trying to do something, which I guess the 747 was not intended for.

Avalon Settings:
- Input Gain: full input gain inclusive +10dB option (see above), TSP off for a clearer signal
- Compression: Sidechain On, 160Hz (bass note) and 2.5kHz (high note) set to being less(!) detected, fast Attack and slow Release, Ratio 2.5:1 (very difficult to find a setting which was working but not obvious), minimum Threshold
- Equalizer: Off
- Output Gain: used for level matching


Chain:
RME AIO Analog Out (still no better DA) > Vovox Cables > Avalon Vt 747sp > Mogami Cables > Forssell MADC-2 > AES/EBU In
Pyramix Native V7
Dry Signal originally rendered @192kHz/32bps; then rerecorded through the chain without the 747 @192kHz/32bps; then downsampled to 44.1kHz/16bps with SRC (Linear Phase Filtering) and Redithering (Requantization to 16 Bit and High Pass Noise Shaping) Mixdown
Wet Signal @192kHz/32bps from Real Time Mixdown; then downsampled to 44.1kHz/16bps with SRC (Linear Phase Filtering) and Redithering (Requantization to 16 Bit and High Pass Noise Shaping) Mixdown and Redithering Mixdown to 44.1kHz/16bps with Linear Phase Filtering and Dithering with Requantization to 16 Bit and High Pass Noise Shaping



Example 4 - 747 on a (sampled) Drum Groove

Objective:
Try parallel compression with the 747.

Comment:
The 747 does not offer the possibility to mix the dry and the processed signal. True parallel compression is not possible with the 747. For these examples a lot of compression was used and the result saved as a first wet file (04 Drums_Wet*.wav). Then this first wet file was mixed with the original (04 Drums_Wet*Parallel.wav), paying attention to an exact sample alignment of both files. This way parallel compression is possible with the 747.

Optimum - Assuming that the ambience of the snare is the most wanted aspect of parallel compression on drums, the sidechain filters were set to the kick and the body of the snare in a way that the detection circuit reacts very much to the snare hits and only a little to the kick. There is a very delicate balance between the threshold, the ratio and the release time. In a way like "the lower the threshold the smaller the ratio must be" and "the higher the ratio the more gain reduction, which then needs shorter relase times". But there is a certain amount of release time necessary, so there should not be too much gain reduction. But less gain reduction is achieved by a smaller compression ratio, while a compression ratio too small does not deliver the wanted sound (the closer it gets to 1:1 = no compression at all). Also, when the Hihat gets damaged, either the ratio or the release time should be decreased. After the threshold is set, the most work is done by comparing different settings of ratio and release time without damaging the HiHat and after mixing them with the original file. Since the transients will be provided by the dry file, there seems to be no need to use a slower attack time. All in all the result achieved here seems interesting and would be much more flexible when not compressing the whole drumkit, but the kick and the snare independently from each other.

Extreme - Here extreme compression was used similar to that used in examples of other compressors doing parallel compression on rock drums. To achieve this sound a very high ratio was necessary, which negatively affected the HiHat. Also, even with the fastest attack time, the compressor seemed to miss a transient every now and then. It got better with a longer release time, but too long release times did loose the ambience of the snare. This was the first approach to parallel compression on drums with the 747. The low sound quality of the result made it necessary not to try doing with the 747 what other devices do but again to use the 747 within the boundaries of its abilities. Further tweaking then led to the previously described "Optimum" example.


Avalon Settings:

(Opt)
- Input Gain: full input gain inclusive +10dB option (see above), TSP off for a little more transparency
- Compression: Sidechain On, SC Listen off, 60Hz/-8dB and 800Hz/+12dB, fastest Attack and almost fastest Release, Ratio 8:1, minimum Threshold
- Equalizer: Off
- Output Gain: used for level matching

(Xtreme)
- Input Gain: full input gain inclusive +10dB option (see above), TSP off for a slightly better transient control
- Compression: Sidechain On, 80Hz and 2.7kHz, fastest Attack and Release, Ratio 20:1, minimum Threshold
- Equalizer: On, cut at bass bell and shelving bands, cut at high shelving and bell bands, EQ before Comp
- Output Gain: used for level matching


Chain:
RME AIO Analog Out > Vovox Cables > Avalon Vt 747sp > Mogami Cables > Forssell MADC-2 > AES/EBU In
Pyramix Native V7
Dry Signal originally rendered @192kHz/32bps; then rerecorded through the chain without the 747 @192kHz/32bps; then downsampled to 44.1kHz/16bps with SRC (Linear Phase Filtering) and Redithering (Requantization to 16 Bit and High Pass Noise Shaping) Mixdown
Wet Signal @192kHz/32bps from Real Time Mixdown; then downsampled to 44.1kHz/16bps with SRC (Linear Phase Filtering) and Redithering (Requantization to 16 Bit and High Pass Noise Shaping) Mixdown and Redithering Mixdown to 44.1kHz/16bps with Linear Phase Filtering and Dithering with Requantization to 16 Bit and High Pass Noise Shaping



Example 5 - 747 on a Recorded Synth Soundscape

Objective:
Get some analog warmth with the 747. Even out the jumps in loudness.

Comment:
This was way more difficult to achieve than expected. What is analog warmth? To me: less cold high mids, more midrange overtones, some slightly excited shimmering highs, a denser yet transparent texture like from driving a tube. In this example there is some organic movement in the sound. It sounds like at least 3 layers. All these details, the inner structure of the sound should still be visible, just less analytic. Again the TSP was offering some warmth but could not be driven too much before clouding the result a little. And what to do with the high bottle whistle sound which is by definition a little cold but essential to the soundscape? And the huge jumps in level when the drones roll in? The compressor had a lot to do here but should be as little visible as possible. The result is a compromise by trying to find a way between all these different demands - dynamic range more controlled, more round and sustained bass and mids, less high mids. Some shimmering highs like offered by some tube gear (e.g. in a way by the high band of the UA 610) would be desirable but not possible with the Avalon 747. The result achieved here stays definitely less Hifi than the original, more like old analog gear, but is this analog warmth? Not sure about this one, I like it somehow. Probably good enough to add some more originalness into digital synth legend clones. (Again, the original may sound more interesting at first due to more level in the high mids and the much more dynamic in the drones.)


Avalon Settings:
- Input Gain: not too much to stay transparent, +10dB option Off, TSP on
- Compression: Sidechain Off for more transparency, slow Attack and Release for a more stable less visible action, Ratio 20:1 together with a Threshold set for about 7dB gain reduction for best transparency by affecting the quieter parts as little as possible
- Equalizer: On, slight raise at bass and low mid bell bands, slight cut at high bell and shelving band (not the 'air')
- Output Gain: used for level matching


Chain:
RME AIO Analog Out > Vovox Cables > Avalon Vt 747sp > Mogami Cables > Forssell MADC-2 > AES/EBU In
Pyramix Native V7
Dry Signal originally recorded at lower resolution and now rendered @192kHz/32bps; then rerecorded through the chain without the 747 @192kHz/32bps; then downsampled to 44.1kHz/16bps with SRC (Linear Phase Filtering) and Redithering (Requantization to 16 Bit and High Pass Noise Shaping) Mixdown
Wet Signal @192kHz/32bps from Real Time Mixdown; then downsampled to 44.1kHz/16bps with SRC (Linear Phase Filtering) and Redithering (Requantization to 16 Bit and High Pass Noise Shaping) Mixdown and Redithering Mixdown to 44.1kHz/16bps with Linear Phase Filtering and Dithering with Requantization to 16 Bit and High Pass Noise Shaping
Attached Files

03 GrandPiano_DryChain.wav (4.37 MB, 5020 views)

03 GrandPiano_Wet.wav (4.37 MB, 5023 views)

04 Drums_DryChain.wav (2.52 MB, 4744 views)

04 Drums_WetOptParallel.wav (2.52 MB, 4695 views)

04 Drums_WetOpt.wav (2.52 MB, 4727 views)

04 Drums_WetXtremeParallel.wav (2.52 MB, 4636 views)

04 Drums_WetXtreme.wav (2.52 MB, 4520 views)

05 Synth_DryChain.wav (3.79 MB, 4816 views)

05 Synth_Wet.wav (3.79 MB, 4918 views)


Last edited by SoundKlang; 16th September 2012 at 12:54 AM.. Reason: new results for example 4
Old 10th September 2012
  #4
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
@TheBrightSide: Thanks for listening. With the first example I was trying to make the different notes in the guitar playing just a little more even and remove the slightly dark and cold tonal character without affecting the image of the microphone recording too much. So, if you say you could not hear much of a difference that is good to me.

Given the numbers of views, there seems to be some interest in compressing drums. So this next one shows a lot of difference between original and processed:


Example 6 - Regular compression on a (sampled) Drum Groove

Objective:
Regular compression with the 747.

Comment:
This uses the same dry sample as Example 04 (see file "04 Drums_DryChain"), only this time not trying to do parallel compression. This one started by using the sidechain to focus compression on the snare and kick. Then playing around with threshold and release to get enough body of the snare and using the sidechain knob for the kick to make it fat but not too squashed and leaving the Hihat intact. Then switched in the Eq before the compressor to take away the edge from the snare and get some more deep bass and mids for the kick. High shelving bands were adjusted to taste. To compensate for the change in levels before the compression adjusted threshold for the snare again and used the sidechain knob to correct the kick. Normally not my prefered kind of drum sound but interesting that this is possible. And this is the 747 on the whole drumkit, not only the kick or only the snare. (A lot of the more present upper mid frequencies were removed and a lot of energy in the low frequencies was added here. Depending on your listening situation you may need to do the level correction yourself when comparing the processed sample to the dry sample.)

Avalon Settings:
- Input Gain: 0dB, +10dB option on, TSP on for densifying
- Compression: Sidechain On, 75Hz and 1.2kHz, fastest Attack, fast Release (set to give some swing between kick and snare), Ratio 5:1, Threshold -5 dB (too low=too squashed, too high=not fat)
- Equalizer: On and before compression, boost at bass shelving band, raise at low mid bell band, cut at mid bell bands, raise at high shelving bands
- Output Gain: used for level matching


Chain:
RME AIO Analog Out > Vovox Cables > Avalon Vt 747sp > Mogami Cables > Forssell MADC-2 > AES/EBU In
Pyramix Native V7
Dry Signal originally rendered @192kHz/32bps; then rerecorded through the chain without the 747 @192kHz/32bps; then downsampled to 44.1kHz/16bps with SRC (Linear Phase Filtering) and Redithering (Requantization to 16 Bit and High Pass Noise Shaping) Mixdown
Wet Signal @192kHz/32bps from Real Time Mixdown; then downsampled to 44.1kHz/16bps with SRC (Linear Phase Filtering) and Redithering (Requantization to 16 Bit and High Pass Noise Shaping) Mixdown and Redithering Mixdown to 44.1kHz/16bps with Linear Phase Filtering and Dithering with Requantization to 16 Bit and High Pass Noise Shaping
Attached Files

06 DrumsRegular_Wet.wav (2.52 MB, 4543 views)


Last edited by SoundKlang; 10th September 2012 at 09:45 AM.. Reason: clarification
Old 10th September 2012
  #5
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TheBrightSide's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Good work!!
I'm taking note of the settings you are using as a starting point for trying out my 747 when it arrives.
I personally preferred the new drum sample you put up compared to the first one.
But my favourite example was the synth, I really liked what you were able to do with that.
Old 11th September 2012
  #6
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
A fair shootout should not only show examples at which a device is best but also at which the result is questionable or a matter of taste. The "Xtreme" setting of the first drum sample (example 4) was trying to show that some compression tasks are probably done better with other devices. Same for the piano (example 3) - the result is not bad, but if you think high end and purest sound quality, maybe you would not want to treat a piano that way with any compressor at all (e.g. if using some kind of digital playback, volume automation itb and only using the 747 for EQing may offer a better result for the piano example).

The "Optimum" setting of the first drum sample (example 4), the synth (example 5, glad you liked it) and regular compressed drums (example 6) then showed, in my opinion, that by not trying to go beyond the capabilities of a device there are a lot of possibilities. A good tool used in the wrong way may be regarded as a bad tool.

I think the 747 has a lot of good qualities. Very important for me is its transparency compared to some other devices. To my ears the examples show, that the 747 does not get in the way of the original sound, even though some examples were done with serious amounts of compression and EQing. Isn't that remarkable? Of course the 747 is there somehow a little, surely in a different way than some other more high end devices. But it does not loose a lot of details nor does it add much colour to the sound by itself (though you can use its EQ and TSP for that, see example 5 and 6). On the other hand, when people want to colour their sound, these qualities are not what they are looking for. And yes, there is always a bigger fish (e.g. the compressor shootout, example 1).

I hope your 747 arrives soon.
Old 11th September 2012
  #7
mds
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🎧 15 years
Dude, you're spamming the hell out of the board with your posts. Going through every 747 post in the history of gearslutz and posting a link to your shootout is not cool.
Old 11th September 2012 | Show parent
  #8
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mds ➑️
Dude, you're spamming the hell out of the board with your posts. Going through every 747 post in the history of gearslutz and posting a link to your shootout is not cool.
Why do you say?
Old 12th September 2012
  #9
mds
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🎧 15 years
Last night he dug up like 10 747 threads from years and years ago and linked to this thread.
Old 12th September 2012
  #10
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TheBrightSide's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
No complaints here!
For all the talk here of the Avalon 747, this is the first time I have heard any actaul sound examples from it.
I'm sure that a few people might be interested in this, so if he has made it easier for others to find it, there is no harm done.
Well done SoundKlang!
Old 12th September 2012
  #11
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Dear mds and others who feel I did something wrong here , please let me explain. When I was searching for a good EQ I read about the 747 here at Gearslutz but found no soundfiles. So I used "gearslutz avalon 747" results from the searchengine and did read almost all posts about the 747 no matter how old they were, hoping that someone may have posted some examples in any of these threads. I assume other people work the same way, whenever they may be looking for information about a device.

The Gearslutz "posting guidelines" state "This forum is a destination for the friendly and helpful sharing of information". The Gearslutz "terms of use" state, "We encourage the exchange of information on the forums and adding an appropriate link to your posting links is invited.". Did I violate these rules?

I even received a warning because of "Multiple identical posts" and "Do not spam the forum with multiple links to your threads". I do not find according remarks anywhere in the "posting guidelines" nor the "terms of use".

The intention of this thread and posting links to this thread in other 747 threads is to help people get some more detailed information about the 747 and its character whenever they may be looking for it. What sense do all the hours of work make if nobody knows where to access these soundfiles?

The terms of use also state "we consider an 'appropriate link' as one that is utterly relevant to both the posting and the forum topic". I tried to post the links only in 747 threads where I thought it would make sense for a reader of that thread to have access to some soundfiles of the 747, but as a non-native english speaker it is quite possible that I missed something here, in which case I apologize.

What I was doing here is a service to the community in supporting other people to hopefully not loose as much time as I did. I ended up testing a lot of other devices only to find out that the 747 is not bad at all. Quite the opposite, if my opinion is allowed.

Anyway, if the Gearslutz community or owner think what I did here is all wrong, please tell me so. In that case I would certainly agree to delete this thread and my Gearslutz membership.




Btw. the posting guidelines state also "if you are a dealer, distributor, manufacturer etc", which neither I am nor I do work for.

Old 15th September 2012
  #12
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Okay, it seems this may continue ...

I forgot to mention that in the other 747 threads a lot of people wrote about their experiences with the 747 and how they use it. Their hints were the basis for some of the example files in this thread and all honour is due to them (if that is correct english).

---

Example 7 - 747 on a (sampled) E-Piano

Objective:
EQs and tubes (clean, saturation, crunch) of the 747.

Comment:

EQ - These two files give one example of the different characters of the passive graphical program equalizer and the so-called "sidechain" EQ, which is in fact an active two-band semiparametric EQ, which can always be switched into the output signal path with the "SC LISTEN" option. Compression and the graphical EQ can always be used in addition to this "sidechain" EQ. Even though some frequencies were increased, others reduced by some dB, the result stays very transparent and close to the original. This quality of the EQs of the 747 is remarkable and makes them very useable.

The other files show the sound character of the Tube Signal Path in the 747. The block diagram in the Operation Manual of the 747 shows one tube placed before (not replacing) the discrete Class A amplifier of the compressor section. To drive this tube, the compressor section must be in the signal path (switched on). Another tube replaces the discrete Class A amplifier of the output line amp when TSP is on. To drive this tube the Output gain may not be lowered, so that probably the output level of the 747 leads to digital clipping in the following AD and some kind of level correction after the 747 is needed if it has to be driven.

Clean - The 747 is most clean with highest output gain and less input gain. With more input gain and accordingly less output gain the result becomes just a little more dense. With clean settings, there is a little difference when switching in the TSP, just a little increase in level. The higher the internal levels the more effect the TSP shows. There is something happening between a very clean setting with low internal levels and TSP off and a setting with high internal levels and TSP on, but it is not a completely different result.

Saturation - This example used the highest possible output level before distortion (see below) would occur. There is some increase in weight and depth of the sound. The result lacks these qualities when the TSP is switched off. This tube saturation of the 747 is very clean when the compressor section and the graphical EQ are switched off. The sonic differences compared to the clean example are so little, that as it seems there is not much of a tube saturation possible with the 747. Switching on the compressor section allows for more saturation artifacts (less depth, slightly blurred high frequencies).

Crunch - Different levels before the input of the 747 and inside of the 747 were tried. When this crunch distortion happened, its basic character was always the same. It sounds very disharmonic, more like a transistor distortion than a tube distortion. There was no way to slowly go from light crunch to distortion. Not surprisingly, it does happen also with the Tube Signal Path switched off. In general this distortion seemed to be controlled by the output gain knob. Lowering the output gain was almost always a way to stop the distortion. With higher internal levels, the same type of distortion also occured before the output stage, mainly in the compressor section. It seems, the first thing to distort are some probably transistor based circuits. In the result there seems to be no way to achieve tube crunch with the 747.

(To achieve this distortion a full level input signal had to be used and amplified by further +24dB in the 747 - see the settings below. The 747 does not distort without such extreme settings.)


Avalon Settings:

(EQSemiParam)
- Input Gain: +0dB, +10dB option Off, TSP on
- Compression: Off, Sidechain-Off, SC Listen On, 500Hz +8dB, 2.5kHz +3dB
- Equalizer : Off
- Output Gain: -10dB

(EQGraphic)
- Input Gain: +0dB, +10dB option Off, TSP on
- Compression: Off, Sidechain-Off, SC Listen Off
- Equalizer : Cut at Low Shelf and Bell bands, Boost at Mid bell bands, slight cut at high and slight raise at air shelf bands
- Output Gain: -10dB

(Clean)
- Input Gain: +0dB, +10dB option Off, TSP on
- Compression: Off
- Equalizer : Off
- Output Gain: +6dB

(Saturation)
- Input Gain: +8dB, +10dB option on, TSP on
- Compression: Off
- Equalizer : Off
- Output Gain: +3dB
- Level correction by Audient ASP-008 Line In-/Outputs -> no digital clipping in the Forssell AD

(Crunch)
- Input Gain: +8dB, +10dB option on, TSP on
- Compression: Sidechain Off, slowest Attack, fastest Release, Ratio 1:1, Threshold +20 dB
- Equalizer : On and before compressor section, full boost at all bands
- Output Gain: +6dB
- Level correction by Audient ASP-008 Line In-/Outputs -> no digital clipping in the Forssell AD


Chain:
RME AIO Analog Out > Vovox Cables > Avalon Vt 747sp ( > Audient ASP-008 for level correction) > Mogami Cables > Forssell MADC-2 > AES/EBU In
Pyramix Native V7
Dry Signal originally rendered @192kHz/32bps; then rerecorded through the chain without the 747 @192kHz/32bps; then downsampled to 44.1kHz/16bps with SRC (Linear Phase Filtering) and Redithering (Requantization to 16 Bit and High Pass Noise Shaping) Mixdown
Wet Signal @192kHz/32bps from Real Time Mixdown; then downsampled to 44.1kHz/16bps with SRC (Linear Phase Filtering) and Redithering (Requantization to 16 Bit and High Pass Noise Shaping) Mixdown and Redithering Mixdown to 44.1kHz/16bps with Linear Phase Filtering and Dithering with Requantization to 16 Bit and High Pass Noise Shaping
Attached Files

07 EPian_DryChain.wav (2.52 MB, 4470 views)

07 EPianEQSemiParam_Wet.wav (2.52 MB, 4456 views)

07 EPianEQGraphic_Wet.wav (2.52 MB, 4376 views)

07 EPianClean_Wet.wav (2.52 MB, 4382 views)

07 EPianSaturationTSP_Wet.wav (2.52 MB, 4309 views)

07 EPianSaturationNoTSP_Wet.wav (2.52 MB, 4247 views)

07 EPianCrunch_Wet.wav (2.52 MB, 4337 views)


Last edited by SoundKlang; 15th September 2012 at 03:33 PM.. Reason: clarification
Old 16th September 2012
  #13
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
UPDATE: Found a better approach to parallel compression on drums and uploaded example files (example 4, see above). The previous version is now named "Xtreme", the new version is named "Opt".
Old 22nd September 2012
  #14
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TheBrightSide's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Okay, so I have had my Avalon 747 for a week now, and I am still getting to know it, so this wont be the best demo of it ever made.
But I'll give it a try anyway.
The examples here are 4 different guitar tracks from a song I am currently working on. They were recorded through an Eleven Rack and an Eventide H3500.

I ran them through the 747 using different settings, but basically trying to do the same thing.
Compression wise, a little more punch while levelling out the signal, and a bit of tube drive by increasing the input.
And with the EQ, I tried to cut the lows, boost the mid presence and raise the highs.

If you can't be bothered listening to all the samples, the last two have a mix of them all.
Attached Files

Gtr 1 dry.wav (3.64 MB, 5317 views)

Gtr 1 wet.wav (3.63 MB, 5289 views)

Gtr 2 dry.wav (3.64 MB, 5149 views)

Gtr 2 wet.wav (3.64 MB, 5225 views)

Gtr 3 dry.wav (3.64 MB, 5081 views)

Gtr 3 wet.wav (3.64 MB, 5072 views)

Gtr 4 dry.wav (3.64 MB, 5044 views)

Gtr 4 wet.wav (3.64 MB, 4976 views)

Mix dry.wav (3.67 MB, 5455 views)

Mix wet.wav (3.67 MB, 5491 views)

Old 23rd September 2012
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Denny C's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I thought that was a very cool sounding intro...I was waiting for it to lead into a powerful 1st verse. Nice job, nice stereo panning.
Old 24th September 2012
  #16
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Thank you for the samples! Nice harmonic you did create there.

I wonder if it would be possible to have more separation between the tracks. Maybe the slow D-F-G phrase more in the background (less highs, more deeper mids and some compression). For that maybe using only the SC LISTEN/"sidechain"-EQ in the signal path instead of the graphic, if not already done so (the "sidechain"-EQ is a little more blurry compared with the graphic EQ). And for bringing the tapped(?) figure to the foreground maybe more of the highest frequency bands and less of the high mid frequencies of the graphical EQ ("sidechain"-EQ off).
Old 24th September 2012
  #17
Lives for gear
 
TheBrightSide's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Thanks for the feedback SoundKlang!
Yes more separation between the tracks is something I would definitely like to achieve.
I think it is going to take a lot of practice to get the best results from the 747.
I probably pushed some of the settings a bit too much, there was even a bit of clipping in one of the guitar notes (which you can't really notice in the final mix). But then again, sometimes the best way to learn is by making mistakes!

The Sidechain functions are going to be the hardest thing to learn for me, as I've never had gear with this feature. I get the feeling that you could get some great results with this if you know how to use it well. It will take some time though. I don't mind, I enjoy the work.

The EQ is definitely the highlight of the 747 for me, so easy to use and to get nice results very quickly.

Thanks again for listening.
Old 24th September 2012
  #18
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Btw, hi to Denny C and the other listeners! If I may, some hints about the sidechain:

Mode 1: Compression with sidechain (Sidechain On, Compressor On)

With SC-Listen On turn the gain knob ccw to boost and use the frequency knob to find the instrument, then SC-Listen Off. Turn the frequencys/instruments gain knob ccw for more compression, cw for less compression. Mostly used ccw for dynamic/peak reduction. But if you want an overall compression without a particularly loud instrument triggering the compressor too much, then set the frequency for this instrument and use the gain knob cw, so that the compressor does not react to this frequency (of course then there is less or no peak level reduction possible for this frequency).

Mode 2: Used as EQ in the signal path

Again, with SC-Listen On turn the gain knob ccw to boost and use the frequency knob, then stay ccw to boost or cw to cut the frequency. You can additionally switch on the Compressor, which as far as I recall (not 100% sure with this) always reacts to the EQ'd Signal when SC-Listen is On, no matter if Sidechain is On or Off.

I think the compressor together with the sidechain EQ is able to handle a lot more than what is sometimes reported about it. But I agree, it is not as easy to use as the EQ.
Old 24th September 2012
  #19
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Really great idea to do this. I love my 747sp and genuinely think you can improve anything with it, once you know how it all works. More of a tone shaper than a precision tool but I love it.

I bet if it was put up against much more expensive units in a blind shootout, it'd fair very well.
Old 1st October 2012
  #20
Lives for gear
 
TheBrightSide's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Well I finally finished my first song using the 747.
There are 27 tracks comprising of vocals, synths and drum machines (vsti's), bass and guitar (which I already posted above).
All the tracks (except a couple of backing vocals) were run through the Avalon as an insert in Cubase, then individually exported.
Finally it was mastered using the 747 (gentle compression and a little EQ shaping)
Although it is my first effort with the 747, and I hope to get to know it better, I was fairly happy with the results. Compared to past recordings, it just sounds a bit more "Polished" with better track definition.

My setup is far from "hi end" mostly ITB, and my conversion is an Emu 1820m coupled with a Rme Adi 2.

Any criticism of the mix is welcome, particularly in regards to compression and EQ, which is the department of the Avalon now.
Attached Files

I'm Impressed.mp3 (6.41 MB, 7376 views)

Old 1st October 2012
  #21
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Nice. I really like how you build harmonies across multiple tracks.

I have never been into Depeche Mode, NIN or the like, so the ideas i got when listening may not be applicable here. If I would have to make the best result of this track, it would include probably two days of mixing including maybe recording some tracks with different sounds. Try to build a 3D image of the music. Then forget about it for a few weeks. Then get back and see if the result achieved is okay or something else or more is needed.

Just spontaneous thoughts when listening:
- To me the mix is very dense. It is difficult for me to separate some tracks. For example as I hear it, you like and use a lot of sawtooth synth sounds. I would try to use different waveforms. Maybe reserve the sawtooth for the legato melodic tracks and for the staccato, percussive-like tracks some more glassy sounds or metallic sounds. Maybe not every track is necessary in every part. I would try to find out the essential necessary tracks and look to the other tracks if they could be used more in an effect-like way.
- I think more frequency separation of the different layers possible. E.g. there is a staccato synth bass which has some more mids. And on top of that seems to be another more rhythmic synth pattern which has higher mids but also reaches down into the lower mids. I would try making the rhythmic synth pattern thinner and for the staccato bass I would try some mid reduction and maybe some distortion/fattening.
- I would like to have a front to rear image by using different early reflections and hall rooms. And Front= more high freqs, more transients, more jumping dynamics, more defined bass freqs, less reverb and Rear=less high freqs, less transients, less jumping dynamics, less defined bass freqs, more reverb. E.g. I find the E-Bass to be too upfront, in some parts it sounds to me as if a bass player was loctaed between the listener and the vocals.
- I do like the overall warm, bright sound of the track and my guess is, that is introduced to a good part by the 747. At the same time maybe some darker tone colours could expand the mix. For this I would look to the kick, which I think may have more body and punch, and the synth bass. Maybe some big dark reverb for some of the more percussive, effect-like elements of the track.
- For the chorus I hear the "I'm impressed, I'm impressed" choir-like spread in the center of the mix, a little in the background, huge, big, embracing, I don't know 3 times unisono or so. That is really a nice melody you have there. I wonder if it could be more than a singer singing a chorus.
- I think there is some possibilities for arrangement. Anti-Climax at 1:45, first chorus a little thinner, more like an introduction, introducing the full mix from the second chorus and on. Many possibilities.

No criticism, just a few ideas. It is already a nice track the way it is now. I would certainly keep this mix, in case a soundwise more refined mix would not carry the mood in the same way (one of the reasons why I think it is good to return working on a track after a few weeks not listening to it).

I think, creativity does not necessarily need the best equipment ... (unless you want to publish the result and compete with the big names)
Old 1st October 2012
  #22
Lives for gear
 
TheBrightSide's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Wow thanks SoundKlang, that was quite an in depth analysis.
You obviously have a very good listening ear, you noticed some very detailed things in the mix that are not easy to hear.
There is a lot of input to take in, but I agree with the points you are making.
I guess much of it comes down to my mixing techniques, and what I need to do to improve my craft. That is something that I am happy to work on.
It really does help to get some technical feedback like that, so again, thanks for listening (so well!!)
Old 2nd October 2012 | Show parent
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Ernest Buckley's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mds ➑️
Dude, you're spamming the hell out of the board with your posts. Going through every 747 post in the history of gearslutz and posting a link to your shootout is not cool.
I respectfully disagree. We finally have some samples to listen to.

Gearslutz should be more about audio samples, than mere opinions.

There are way too many people on this site ranting and raving about gear and they have nothing to show for it. At least we have something to listen to and discuss here.

Much thanks to SoundKlang for putting in the work!

EB
Old 13th October 2012 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Buckley ➑️
I respectfully disagree. We finally have some samples to listen to.

Gearslutz should be more about audio samples, than mere opinions.

There are way too many people on this site ranting and raving about gear and they have nothing to show for it. At least we have something to listen to and discuss here.

Much thanks to SoundKlang for putting in the work!

EB
big +1

Finally more substantial and informative posts (with audio samples) on the Avalon 747 showing up on Gearslutz in 2012. Therefore it is helpful to have links on other and older 747 threads pointing to this thread as well.

Thanks for your effort and keep up the good work!
Old 17th October 2013 | Show parent
  #25
Gear Nut
 
dlt123's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundKlang ➑️

... Read link above ...
I realize this thread is pretty old, but I'm so glad you posted these samples. I am trying to decide whether to get this unit and your files have helped.

Thanks for posting these and you have not broken any rules in my book, in fact you are doing as any honorable slutz would do, help other slutzs to make an informed and intelligent buying decision.

Good work my friend,
Dennis
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