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That BIG sound
Old 3rd February 2009
  #1
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
That BIG sound

A fellow engineer sent me this file via email after we had been going back and forth about making BIG lush recordings. He won't tell me what band this is or when it was recorded but I have listened to it many times now and am to say the least very intrigued to know how you would approach getting a sound like this. Would you have to track to tape? Also, I didn't think I was a very big fan of reverb before this but this track is so lush and part of the music that I think it can work if done right. Basically I'm looking for how you would make a recording sound like this.

Thnx

MC Blind

P.S. If anyone knows who the drummer is please let me know. I would like to hire him for some studio sessions. My engineering friend is off on holiday for two weeks and I want to find out before that because I'm rather impatient. heh

P.S. Here is a link to the full quality uncompressed wave file that he originally sent me if you would like to hear it in Hi-Fi 3D. IS_mstr.wav
Old 4th February 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Allot of reverb and delay and extreme panning on the drums.

It's a sparse arrangement with loads of "Hall style" reverb on everything, including the bass. Then a POD multiFX thing on the guitar and a large delay on the sax.

It's a bit wishy washy for my tastes, but agreed, the drummer is very good.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #3
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB ➑️
Allot of reverb and delay and extreme panning on the drums.

It's a sparse arrangement with loads of "Hall style" reverb on everything, including the bass. Then a POD multiFX thing on the guitar and a large delay on the sax.

It's a bit wishy washy for my tastes, but agreed, the drummer is very good.
The thing is, there is more to this than just a lot of reverb and delay. This recording is exceptional. Check out the wave file on your best audio chain, (Not a little notebook computer) and get back to me. Lol, I'm pretty sure a POD wasn't used for the guitar sound either. Could someone else chime in that is more experienced? This is way beyond a typical recording that I hear. I have been recording for awhile now and know a lot but I wanted to keep my comments to a minimum and let people hear it for themselves.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Arrow

Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MC Blind ➑️
Could someone else chime in that is more experienced?
fuuck

LOL. How rude. Your and my definition of exceptional differ somewhat.

But, whatever. "You're Welcome".
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #6
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB ➑️
fuuck

LOL. How rude. Your and my definition of exceptional differ somewhat.
By all means post an example of your work that exceeds it.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
I'm more seasoned I'm listening to this track on sennhieser hd600 headphones through a custom made headphone amp and this track is nothing special
Quote:
It's a sparse arrangement with loads of "Hall style" reverb on everything, including the bass. Then a POD multiFX thing on the guitar and a large delay on the sax.

It's a bit wishy washy for my tastes, but agreed, the drummer is very good.
i couldn't agree more this entire track is burried in fx
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by doulos ➑️
I'm more seasoned I'm listening to this track on sennhieser hd600 headphones through a custom made headphone amp and this track is nothing special


i couldn't agree more this entire track is burried in fx
Let me guess you haven't a clue either and have no examples of your work that exceed it either. I see a trend here...
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #9
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MC Blind ➑️
Let me guess you haven't a clue either and have no examples of your work that exceed it either. I see a trend here...
It's your thread you idiot. Jesus.
You asked for comments and got them. No need to be a dick about it.

I'm sorry my 17 years professional recording isn't enough for you whippersnappers these days.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
I hate when you post an audio example on this site. Right away you just get jealous posters telling you what they don't like about it and how they could do better. Let me make it clear. Do not post in my thread anymore unless you have actual information about the recording or have a good ear, have listened to the wave file in your acoustically treated room with high end monitors and actually are a professional full-time engineer.

Thank You
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
lblstudio's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I could listen to that track through Apple earbuds and agree completely with the posts from above. Listening in my treated control room, though, I still agree completely with the posts from above.

If you want to model the sound in the track, use quite a bit of hall type reverb and push the predelay out a little further than you normally would.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
OK, I get it. Some of you hate reverb and delay and don't like the sound quality of this recording. I vehemently disagree but again non of you besides throwing out snide POD, reverb or delay comments have actually answered the original question. I understand that it's intimadating at times to hear recordings like this that may be different than what is considered "normal" these days but try thinking outside of that even for a little and be a little more constructive. Does anyone have anything good or positive to say or is this just going to be a continual hate fest?
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
OK, obviously there is a lot of anger and confusion on this thread. I was reacting to some comments and the general tone not to mention someone flicking me off. I'll understand never to post a file on here for people to listen to ever again. What sad times these are. This is such a poor excuse for human interaction.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
James Meeker's Avatar
It's The Cure.

Judging from the era it comes from (1985-1987) off the top of my head I'm guessing you need to look into a Lexicon 224 series (sounds like the 'plate' program to me) if you dig that sound, because that's what I'm hearing on the toms. I'm guessing the rest of the verb is an AMS RMX16. Make sure to load up on the brightness going into the verb, and use a bright verb on the toms. The mic on the toms sound very U87 to me... probably a large diaphragm condenser in any case.

Definitely put a chorus on the bass--inline as a pedal--before going DI. Bass sounds very DI to me, which is typical for the 80's.

Guitars... try doing your overdubs with the guitar mildly sharp and another mildly flat a few cents. According to Robert Smith that's how he'd do his guitar 'dubs to create a natural chorusing effect that doesn't oscillate with an LFO. Chances are the guitar/amp combination is a Jazzmaster into a Roland JC120 miked with a U87.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Meeker ➑️
It's The Cure.

Judging from the era it comes from (1985-1987) off the top of my head I'm guessing you need to look into a Lexicon 224 series if you dig that sound, because that's what I'm hearing. Make sure to load up on the brightness going into the verb, and use a bright verb on the toms.

Definitely put a chorus on the bass--inline as a pedal--to the amp.

Guitars... try doing your overdubs with the guitar mildly sharp and another mildly flat a few cents. According to Robert Smith that's how he'd do his guitar 'dubs to create a natural chorusing effect that doesn't oscillate with an LFO. Chances are the guitar/amp combination is a Jazzmaster into a Roland JC120 miked with a U87.
Thank you very much. You are a scholar and a gentlemen. My hats off to you. I had no idea.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by camerondye ➑️
You earned every inch of that finger...why don't you start with an apology for your rude comments so people don't just discount you as a sh!tstarter every time they see your name.

It is people like you that are the problem with GS, not people like MarkRB. He, very nicely I'll add, made comments on a song he obviously didn't care for and gave your thread a bump so more people would see it and then you insulted him...How old are you for real??? A little courtesy goes a really long way here...
Ok bro, I get it you don't like me. Let's try to keep things positive from now on. I'm going to edit out the fingers and pissing squirrels from my post. I agree, I'm above that.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
strat+ac30's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB ➑️
Allot of reverb and delay and extreme panning on the drums.

It's a sparse arrangement with loads of "Hall style" reverb on everything, including the bass. Then a POD multiFX thing on the guitar and a large delay on the sax.

It's a bit wishy washy for my tastes, but agreed, the drummer is very good.
I have no idea why this response was so offensive...but I agree, this is EXACTLY what it sounds like to me.



MC Blind...your posts might qualify for the rudest series of comments I've seen on Gearslutz.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by camerondye ➑️
But no apology for being horribly rude though I see...
I changed my post. I feel that any argument or fight is a two way street. I've done my part to clean it up after being "virtually" flicked off. I knew from critically listening to the song several times that it wasn't just a bunch of plug in verbs and a POD. That comment was really over the top to me and now that we know it was an international famous band obviously recording in a top studio I think that is clearly evident. The rest is up to you all to decide how you're going to live your life and treat others. All I can do is wish you peace and pray that you may not live angry frustrated lives.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
James Meeker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MC Blind ➑️
Thank you very much. You are a scholar and a gentlemen. My hats off to you. I had no idea.
The track is called "Icing Sugar" off of Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me.

Not one of my favorite tracks by them--I had to look up what album it was on and the name, but I *DID* know it was them.

The recording is from 1986-87 (album released in 1987). Look up any info on the recording of that record. I think they did it in France in some mansion converted into a studio or something like that. Look up the studio they got it mixed at as well--you may be able to figure out what type of processing they had at the time, although I'm gonna have to say it's probably going to be AMS and Lexicon 224... maybe a QRS but I'm not hearing it. It doesn't seem very 480-ish to me, but you never know.

If you don't know The Cure you should listen to them. Great band, very unique vision--many people have tried to imitate them, but it just doesn't work. Their body of work is pretty large--I recommend starting off with Disintegration (horribly dated drum sounds though), Kiss Me, and probably Wish. If you like their darker material check out Pornography and Head on the Door--those are my two personal favorites.

Hope this helps!

There are a few things you can draw from the recording--the guitar obviously isn't a POD (not even someone's worst nightmare in 86-87), and it was definitely tracked to tape. I still think the toms are coated in Lexicon 224 plate 'verb, and definitely with some solid pre-delay in there.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
KEYBEEETSSS's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by strat+ac30 ➑️
I have no idea why this response was so offensive...but I agree, this is EXACTLY what it sounds like to me.



MC Blind...your posts might qualify for the rudest series of comments I've seen on Gearslutz.
Reading thru these post I have to agree; I actually don't even wanna listen to the song & give an opinion; I sure MC won't mind/care though...
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #21
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Meeker ➑️
The track is called "Icing Sugar" off of Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me.

Not one of my favorite tracks by them--I had to look up what album it was on and the name, but I *DID* know it was them.

The recording is from 1986-87 (album released in 1987). Look up any info on the recording of that record. I think they did it in France in some mansion converted into a studio or something like that. Look up the studio they got it mixed at as well--you may be able to figure out what type of processing they had at the time, although I'm gonna have to say it's probably going to be AMS and Lexicon 224... maybe a QRS but I'm not hearing it. It doesn't seem very 480-ish to me, but you never know.

If you don't know The Cure you should listen to them. Great band, very unique vision--many people have tried to imitate them, but it just doesn't work. Their body of work is pretty large--I recommend starting off with Disintegration (horribly dated drum sounds though), Kiss Me, and probably Wish. If you like their darker material check out Pornography and Head on the Door--those are my two personal favorites.

Hope this helps!

There are a few things you can draw from the recording--the guitar obviously isn't a POD (not even someone's worst nightmare in 86-87), and it was definitely tracked to tape. I still think the toms are coated in Lexicon 224 plate 'verb, and definitely with some solid pre-delay in there.
Thanks so much again. There is a lot of info for me to sort through. What's funny is I don't normally listen to this sort of music but I've been on some sort of retro kick lately I guess. I did a little research and realized a song I've always loved, Just Like Heaven is on the same album so I think I'm going to get it just for the heck of it.

Also to Mark, I am sorry for going off on you. I've thought about it and I shouldn't have overreacted to the virtual finger and got so mad at you for diss'n the recording. I'm sure you're a stellar engineer mate.

To each there own, peace out.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
 
James Meeker's Avatar
The Cure are timeless... There are very few bands that are totally original and still have musical credibility. I mean, they're not virtuosos or technical players but through a combination of 'making the best of what they have', originality, songwriting, strong performances and composition I think they are much more than a retro band.

Unfortunately, they're not a very 'cool' band for musicians to like. When they're all dead and gone they'll be hailed as geniuses... just wait.

At least that's my opinion.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #23
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MC Blind ➑️
Also to Mark, I am sorry for going off on you. I've thought about it and I shouldn't have overreacted to the virtual finger and got so mad at you for diss'n the recording.
So it was me saying POD that offended you? That's understandable I guess heh. No-one said plug-ins and you can't deny there are allot of effects on the track.

But yeah, It's cool man, I was just trying to describe a multi effect thing that anyone would understand. I wasn't trying to diss the track. I'm sorry you read it like that, being snide wasn't my intention.

Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB ➑️
So it was me saying POD that offended you? That's understandable I guess heh. No-one said plug-ins and you can't deny there are allot of effects on the track.

But yeah, It's cool man, I was just trying to describe a multi effect thing that anyone would understand. I wasn't trying to diss the track. I'm sorry you read it like that, being snide wasn't my intention.

Cheers mate, I think we're finally on the same page. I still can't believe I'm getting this CD today. If some of my dj friends find out they'll give me a good razing.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #25
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
oh now I have to vindicate myself as a producer, you want something I've done that surpases this thats pretty easy ok here you go

blackboxsound on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos track 4 bring it on if you want more just ask I have a ton of material. I've worked in the best rooms with the best producers out there

Sound Cell Recording Studios || Huntsville, Alabama one of the rooms I work in

FAMESTUDIOS.COM another studio I work in

I'm freelace producer/engineer I've worked with a producer and cowriter for john mayer, the producers of third day, "monroe jones" a side project for papa roach need I continue? One of the last projects I did the studio was in eq magazine it's called true north studios they flew me out to be mix engineer for the producer clay cook who was the cowriter for john mayer back in the day etc.

vindication rant over with
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #26
FAT
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by doulos ➑️
oh now I have to vindicate myself as a producer, you want something I've done that surpases this thats pretty easy ok here you go

blackboxsound on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos track 4 bring it on if you want more just ask I have a ton of material. I've worked in the best rooms with the best producers out there

Sound Cell Recording Studios || Huntsville, Alabama one of the rooms I work in

FAMESTUDIOS.COM another studio I work in

I'm freelace producer/engineer I've worked with a producer and cowriter for john mayer, the producers of third day, "monroe jones" a side project for papa roach need I continue? One of the last projects I did the studio was in eq magazine it's called true north studios they flew me out to be mix engineer for the producer clay cook who was the cowriter for john mayer back in the day etc.

vindication rant over with
None of your work comes even close to being as good as 'Kiss me Kiss me Kiss me' by The Cure.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #27
Lives for gear
 
James Meeker's Avatar
I don't know why this discussion has to be so heated and ugly. I sense only bad things, and probably a fair amount of hubris, to come.

Have fun guys! My only purpose is to try and help people out.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #28
Lives for gear
 
KEYBEEETSSS's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Meeker ➑️
I don't know why this discussion has to be so heated and ugly. I sense only bad things, and probably a fair amount of hubris, to come.

Have fun guys! My only purpose is to try and help people out.

Real classy guy that Meeker is; too bad all the slutz like u man
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #29
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
None of your work comes even close to being as good as 'Kiss me Kiss me Kiss me' by The Cure.
thats your opinion and your entitled to it. I was never a cure fan out of the 12 years I've been in this business I've had some exceptional talent in the studio and I respectfully disagree

the techno tracks were demos shown for a nine inch nails type sample collection I was working on. Industrial and circuit bent sample collection for the acid loop generation. those don't count as mixing to me. It's what I do when I'm not working to pay the bills sample cds that is
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #30
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
I don't know why this discussion has to be so heated and ugly. I sense only bad things, and probably a fair amount of hubris, to come.

Have fun guys! My only purpose is to try and help people out

wish there were more people like you in this business james
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