Quantcast
Mic Shootout BeesNeez / Wagner / Neumann - Page 9 - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Mic Shootout BeesNeez / Wagner / Neumann
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #241
Lives for gear
 
Docmattic's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astromann ➡️
So is that some kinda partial ban?
Pretty strange...cause its his thread
Astro
thats what he told me. i found it odd aswell.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #242
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Seems like the moderators around here are 'aggitators' more than anything.
If you look back at the posts by our gearslutz moderators in this thread, you'll see what i mean.

dictionary.com says......

mod·er·a·tor (mŏd'ə-rā'tər) Pronunciation Key
n.
  1. One that moderates, as:
    1. One that arbitrates or mediates.
    2. One who presides over a meeting, forum, or debate
I guess gearslutz has a different ideal of the meaning.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #243
Lives for gear
 
GYang's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by laddie.music2 ➡️

dictionary.com says......
  1. One that moderates, as:
    1. One that arbitrates or mediates.
    2. One who presides over a meeting, forum, or debate
Or shortly:

Moderator for President
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #244
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
it's really nonsense to ban ben from his thread. there would be better reasons to ban mods like tony or george from gs
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #245
Lives for gear
 
mics's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Hi All, i think that i was just grounded to here for a few days until things settled. All is fine now and i can post again anywhere.

thanks

next time i do a shootout, i will just post the results on my new site when it is launched, that way those wanting to listen will do so and world war 3 won't begin.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #246
Gear Maniac
 
Astromann's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mics ➡️
next time i do a shootout, i will just post the results on my new site when it is launched, that way those wanting to listen will do so and world war 3 won't begin.
Maybe thats why they call it a "shootout! LOL!!heh
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #247
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mics ➡️
Hi All, i think that i was just grounded to here for a few days until things settled. All is fine now and i can post again anywhere.

thanks

next time i do a shootout, i will just post the results on my new site when it is launched, that way those wanting to listen will do so and world war 3 won't begin.
See, Ben. I told you that you should have waited to the end of the week to post the results.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #248
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks Ben,

Sounds very diplomatic to me. Anyway, there seems to be some people around here who don't appreciate the effort and really try to derail postings for other's enjoyment.

This is really turned into an unfortunate drama that should have been avoided.

I certainly appreciate your effort, even if some didn't think it to be completely scientific.

Although I respect opinions on this forum, I certainly don't respect the complete and utter disrespect this forum seems to show from some of it's members.

If people want to post, they should do it respectfully and use a little integrity. This [forum] really is a good place for people like myself who don't have access to huge amounts of money to really get to know a product before spending the time and money to "try it out" or even give it another look.

I also believe that you (Ben) truly tried to be objective as possible in your test and although it may not have appealed to some because of the way it was recorded, it certainly was a jumping off point of reference to me. So again, thank you.

Also, it seemed as though you used tools you thought and felt to be a true representation of their source and cleared up any unfortunate misrepresentations you thought you made, which says a lot about your character and professionalism.

Welcome Back!


On another note; when will your site be redesigned?
Thanks.


Mick
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #249
Lives for gear
 
KEYBEEETSSS's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSR74 ➡️
Thanks Ben,
On another note; when will your site be redesigned?

Mick
I'd like to know that too...
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #250
Lives for gear
 
Beyersound's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSR74 ➡️
Thanks Ben,

Sounds very diplomatic to me. Anyway, there seems to be some people around here who don't appreciate the effort and really try to derail postings for other's enjoyment.

This is really turned into an unfortunate drama that should have been avoided.

I certainly appreciate your effort, even if some didn't think it to be completely scientific.

Although I respect opinions on this forum, I certainly don't respect the complete and utter disrespect this forum seems to show from some of it's members.

If people want to post, they should do it respectfully and use a little integrity. This [forum] really is a good place for people like myself who don't have access to huge amounts of money to really get to know a product before spending the time and money to "try it out" or even give it another look.

I also believe that you (Ben) truly tried to be objective as possible in your test and although it may not have appealed to some because of the way it was recorded, it certainly was a jumping off point of reference to me. So again, thank you.

Also, it seemed as though you used tools you thought and felt to be a true representation of their source and cleared up any unfortunate misrepresentations you thought you made, which says a lot about your character and professionalism.

Welcome Back!


On another note; when will your site be redesigned?
Thanks.


Mick
+1 Mick. I wish that some of you GS posters out there would put as much energy into helping and advising, as you do flaming and accusing! I notice the repect given to Michael Joly in his posts and shootouts, and hope that someday soon Ben will be given the same respect. The talents of people like Ben and Michael are important, especially to those of us who are monetarily challenged and have a good set of ears. It also seems there is high danger of being flamed when talking about high end pieces of gear. People who have spent a lot of money on a piece of gear don't always want to hear that a much less expensive piece sounds close to or as good. I would urge these people to form their opinions with their ears and not their wallets!
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #251
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyersound ➡️
...I would urge these people to form their opinions with their ears and not their wallets!
And I would urge manufacturers of gear not to do shootouts of their own gear against the competition, unless they want to get shot.

And with their ears, yes, IF they can verify the source of what they hear and can be sure it was not manipulated.
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #252
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
And I would urge manufacturers of gear not to do shootouts of their own gear against the competition, unless they want to get shot.

And with their ears, yes, IF they can verify the source of what they hear and can be sure it was not manipulated.

This was verified by Gunther Wagner, and Turtle Rock engineering.

Hows your behringer mic's doing?
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #253
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mics ➡️
Hi All, i think that i was just grounded to here for a few days until things settled. All is fine now and i can post again anywhere.

thanks

next time i do a shootout, i will just post the results on my new site when it is launched, that way those wanting to listen will do so and world war 3 won't begin.
Thanks for the shootout Ben. For what it's worth, I think you did it right, but no matter HOW you configure a shootout, you will get people who say that you did it wrong. I've done two HUGE shootouts myself (Drum Mic Madness and a Ribbon shootout) and have gotten slammed some. It's worse when the people slamming have a vested financial interest and are not completely forthright about that. But mostly it's people who are grateful. As am I. Keep up the good work.

bp
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #254
Gear Maniac
 
Astromann's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
And I would urge manufacturers of gear not to do shootouts of their own gear against the competition, unless they want to get shot.

And with their ears, yes, IF they can verify the source of what they hear and can be sure it was not manipulated.
You know if you hear a mid priced mic with a cheaper capsule (under $2000) in real life, such as many that are on the market..you will KNOW that it's near impossible to get them to sound like a Neumann...even with all kinds of EQ put on, you cant get them to sound like a Neumann (I have tried in real life).
Thats one reason why Neumanns and Wagners are so revered, now (wether you believe it or not) Bens mics are in the same ball park, and many others have confirmed this.
If in the tests Bens weren't at all close, then others like Rick O Neil would have said so, you cant manipulate or doctor a turd to sound like Neumann..its that simple.

Thats one point...the next is...the Mic that suffered the worst in that shootout was the Arabella (one of Bens)
I phoned Ben and asked him why, cause I know its one of the best (of his mics) He said it was put right up the end of the room...but he said nothing because he did not want to be seen as stacking anything in his favor.
(if that was the U47..everyone would have loudly cried "FOUL"...but it wasn't...so no one commented at all, after all it's only a $1,350 mic...so who cares?)
The engineers set up that test, positioned the mics and all he did was post the samples.
All the engineers heard those samples and others did to, if they were even slightly doctored before they were posted...we would have heard about it very quickly.
I have heard the jade and the james and the Arabella...in the flesh (as have others) and they sounded more or less the same in the shootout, but the Arabella suffered a bit...it still sounded in the same ballpark tho.

Your motto of guilty until proven innocent (despite independent witnesses and earlier tests of just Ben's mics which are here for anyone to hear) and your continuing to try and push this ...only shows you up as being irrationally stubborn and hung up on your opinion..(and not being a big enough man to even consider you may be being a little irrational).
So this tends to make people suspicious that you have some kind of hidden agenda here, either that..or you are a very "proud and stubborn" man.
If you don't like them and you think the shootout was stacked ...fine!! that your opinion, but thats all it is "your opinion".
I expect you to argue to the contrary, because that seems to be your nature, but your arguments are becoming more and more irrelevant.
Astro
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #255
Lives for gear
 
asagaai's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
[Astroman quote]If in the tests Bens weren't at all close, then others like Rick O Neil would have said so, you cant doctor a turd to sound like Neumann..its that simple.
Thats one point...the next is...the Mic that suffered the worst in that shootout was the Arabella (one of Bens) I phoned Ben and asked him why, cause I know its one of the best (of his mics) He said it was put right up the end of the room...but he said nothing because he did not want to be seen as stacking anything in his favor.
[/quote]

Thanks for that explanation Astro-I have the Jade and the "Arabella"- and like you I was surprised at the sample of the Arabella with Bens capsule which I have found astounding -this may explain the sample.


[Audio Ergo Sum quote][
And with their ears, yes, IF they can verify the source of what they hear and can be sure it was not manipulated. /QUOTE]

Audio ergo summer-here you are implying that the samples were doctored. Rick O'Neil of Turtlerock has confirmed not-and he is very respected. Further-why Did Ben Sneesby use Rick O'Neills awseome M49 over the studio's standard U49 if he wanted to doctor the files -get a life man. You seem to have an anally retentive obsession with spec sheets.

Rather than spec sheets- I would take these opinions on the Beez Neez mikes-.

[Rick O'Neill quote]for me its seems simple if ben starts making mics that i like the look of , maybe i will be persuaded to join his club [/quote]Rick O'Neill

[Gunter Wagner quote]Fact is that Ben's mics sound very good and certainly deserve their place in the field.
[/quote]






GJ
Newcastle/OZ
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #256
Gear Maniac
 
Sharkus's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
What a strange thread.

Anyone see Happy Gilmore? Ben seems like Happy, and there is a bunch of Shooter McGavins on here.

It's a dude making microphones.

If it was a trick to sell crappy mics, he would probably double the price and stop hand making them.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #257
Lives for gear
 
MadGuitrst's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
My take:

BM
1. Nice and even all around, nicely present in the mids, no eshyness - my favorite
2. Warmest, biggest, kind of a brown sound in a mic....if you want toobey, this is it.
3. Brighter, thinner...kind of like a 800. Okay but not my thing
4. Flatter, thinner, my least favorite
5. Neumannish but thin. Not for me.
6. Round and tubish, more balanced than #2, second favorite.
7. Very close to #6 but lest low end depth. Considering the price difference, I'd pick this second, although I like it third best.

Winner - The James.

LM
1. nice mids, but the esses are too prominent
2. Some esh...just enough, but no sibilance problems
3. Too bright - ouch
4. Very similar to #3
5. Me no like - too much high end
6. That Neumann sound - the best on the female.
7. Very similar to #6.

Winner - the U47 (but the Arabella is NOT really worlds away....and the price/performance winner). This said, I didn't like most of these mics for the female....I think a ribbon would be better for her (and this preamp, etc. combination).

TJ
I'm not going to go through all of these.....I'm tired.
Let's just say I like the U47. The Jade did it's best this time. The 49 is still the phatest/most depth. The Arabellla wasn't like the 47 this time.....more present. The James was not bad at all.

Okay, for me, a home/project studio recordist. I like the Jame a lot. I also like the stock Arabella and it would be my second choice (although if I had a professional studio I'd pick the real U47) The Arabella didn't have the low end of the 47 in this shootout, but maybe a little proximity effect would reduce that gap. Ironically, my least favorite mic was the Arabella with the K47 capsule.....followed closely by the fake Wagner. The M49 has that tube-brown-sound. Nice if that's what you want. But honestly, I just sold a TLM49.....and while it's no M49, shares a certain character that I don't prefer......it's the capsule/housing combo, I think.

So Ben, box up a James and an Arabella for me.......
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #258
Here for the gear
 
Audiokurt's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by laddie.music2 ➡️
This was verified by Gunther Wagner, and Turtle Rock engineering.
Maybe I am missing something here but where did Gunter Wagner or Turtle Rock Engineering verify this? I had contacted Mr. Wagner myself on Thursday and he admitted that his comment was based on the soundfiles on GS only. He never saw or heard any of Ben's mics himself, so I doubt that this was meant as a verification for the shootout. Remember that despite the thread header, no Wagner mic was used and he was not invited to the shootout.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #259
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astromann ➡️
...
Your motto of guilty until proven innocent (despite independent witnesses and earlier tests of just Ben's mics which are here for anyone to hear) and your continuing to try and push this ...only shows you up as being irrationally stubborn and hung up on your opinion..(and not being a big enough man to even consider you may be being a little irrational).
So this tends to make people suspicious that you have some kind of hidden agenda here, either that..or you are a very "proud and stubborn" man.
If you don't like them and you think the shootout was stacked ...fine!! that your opinion, but thats all it is "your opinion".
I expect you to argue to the contrary, because that seems to be your nature, but your arguments are becoming more and more irrelevant.
Astro
Hey Astroman, you make some pretty strong accusations here and I would ask you to reconsider for a moment and listen.

My criticism is not how the microphones in this "test" sound or don't sound.
There are simple rules how comparisons between gear should be conducted. I certainly did not make them up and they in no way represent my "opinion" or my "stubbornness" as you say. With this test almost everything was wrong.
-Done by the manufacturer himself
-no truely independent experts present (the manufacturer payed for the studio, correct?)
-published over the internet, but no information for the microphones available, except a distant group photo.
-no reasonable verification possible, what was inside those BeeSneez mics, those were prototypes...
-We were promised pictures of the test setup: where are they?

The legacy Neumann mics are long out of production. They will have been within the manufacturers specs at time of production, but now many decades later it is silly to assume that they just represent their kind within reasonable tolerances.

etc.

Regarding people calling me "tech jockey":
Go get a life (and some knowledge). No one will judge a microphone's sound by the specs.

If someone steps up to the table to play with the big guys he needs to represent some data:

1.) Does he even have the ability at all to measure his mics and thus control quality and keep them within tolerances? Judging by the information available - actually NOT available - on the internet he can't even measure his mics.

2.)In professional environments if in the middle of a tracking session one mic goes belly up we must replace it with a similar model. Now published specs from a manufacturer give you reasonable confidence that he is able to make his mics alike within narrow tolerances.

It has nothing to do with sound, but with a production environment that ensures consistency not only for ONE hand selected piece like for this test, but for all the mics from that series.

I would just never buy a mic from someone who has nothing more than claims to offer, and only here I voice my personal opinion. It is the way this whole thing looks to me over the internet only. If in reality people test his microphones and like and keep them that is all fine. Just don't try to market over the internet then, since this comes across as selling 'snake oil' to the technically challenged.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #260
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by asagaai ➡️
...
Further-why Did Ben Sneesby use Rick O'Neills awseome M49 over the studio's standard U49 if he wanted to doctor the files -get a life man. You seem to have an anally retentive obsession with spec sheets.
...
Put yourself in the shoes of people worldwide reading this.
"Rick O'Neills awesome M49" means NOTHING to at least 99.9 % of the audio professionals worldwide.

Last edited by audio ergo sum; 1st February 2009 at 01:26 PM.. Reason: Mellowing down...
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #261
Gear Maniac
 
Astromann's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
Hey Astroman, you make some pretty strong accusations here and I would ask you to reconsider for a moment and listen.
My criticism is not how the microphones in this "test" sound or don't sound.
There are simple rules how comparisons between gear should be conducted. I certainly did not make them up and they in no way represent my "opinion" or my "stubbornness" as you say.
Long post here (sorry bout that...its late at nite..so I thought I would try to go over most of your points.)
First off, thanks for not reacting adversely to my "strong accusations"...and yes I can see your point here, it would be difficult if you had not heard the mics in flesh to totally rely on this test (or any test really)

Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
-Done by the manufacturer himself
-no truly independent experts present (the manufacturer payed for the studio, correct?)
Again I was not there, so I cant answer this with complete authority.
However according to everything I have heard Ben paid for the tests at Phil Punches Electric Avenue Studios, but the tests were actually carried out by the engineers ...I think his name was Ganesh.(you could check on that)
Actually as the studio owns the U47 and the Wagners...so they would definitely not have been biased in any way to Ben's mics at all.
Rick O'Neil has no particular interest in Bens mics...he is a mastering engineer with a good reputation, so he would be independent expert.
On a side point tho, even if many experts were present, they would all have their own point of view...so many "experts" often have their biases too, especially to newcomers in the field.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
-published over the internet, but no information for the microphones available, except a distant group photo.
-no reasonable verification possible, what was inside those BeeSneez mics, those were prototypes...
Agreed...there could be more information, as far as what is in the Bees Neez mics...I have two of Bens mics and have pulled them apart a few times.
They definitely have Cinemag transformers in them and a non chinese capsule (I have seen a few of those), plus point to point electronics.
I am not a tech wiz tho...I have wired up several electric guitars etc...but thats about it.
So yeah its up to Ben to answer this...I understand your points...if you look at from a persons perspective that has no experience with Ben...its not a lot to go on.
I was worried when I bought my first mic off him..it was dark (I have told this story on the Jade thread) but he made it exactly what I want by adjusting the capsule...so he definitely seems to know his business very well. I have been delighted with the Arabella too.
Another point is before I saw Ben online, I emailed Michael Joly, spoke to Warren dent from Front End Audio...and listened to countless shootouts (at Front End Audio and Chameleon Labs to name a few) because I was on a serious hunt to find a couple of good mics.
Well none of it convinced me...and I became confused about the whole thing, then theres the whole thing of everyone saying their mic is as good as Neumann.
What I am trying to say...unless you hear a mic in the flesh or somehow you feel the manufacturer or some of the users are totally trustworthy, its difficult to make any decisions...even if you have the specs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
The legacy Neumann mics are long out of production. They will have been within the manufacturers specs at time of production, but now many decades later it is silly to assume that they just represent their kind within reasonable tolerances.
True! But from what I have heard Gunter maintains those Neumanns so they are at peak performance, he is considered the best in his field by many. So those mics would be better than most.
You would have to confirm this with others tho..namely the studio.


Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
Regarding people calling me "tech jockey":
Go get a life (and some knowledge). No one will judge a microphone's sound by the specs.
If someone steps up to the table to play with the big guys he needs to represent some data:
That wasn't me who said that...but honestly the tone of your earlier emails more or less insulted others...by saying "the whole thread is a joke and so on, good for sociology majors" etc...
That will get peoples backs up, and they will insult you back...and on it goes.
You have some legitimate concerns for sure, just perhaps express them slightly more mellowly and people will listen.
But at the end of the day only Ben can answer many of those concerns.
I am sure he will update his website and make all his work including specs, capsules and building procedures etc...more transparent...this inspires confidence for sure.
I for one...would like to see that, solid information inspires confidence.
He did supply some pics of his capsule here
https://gearspace.com/board/new-prod...ries-jade.html its at the bottom of the page.


Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
1.) Does he even have the ability at all to measure his mics and thus control quality and keep them within tolerances? Judging by the information available - actually NOT available - on the internet he can't even measure his mics.
This is up to Ben to answer, no one else can really.


Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
2.)In professional environments if in the middle of a tracking session one mic goes belly up we must replace it with a similar model. Now published specs from a manufacturer give you reasonable confidence that he is able to make his mics alike within narrow tolerances.
I think this remains to be seen, I believe that Rick O Neil mentioned this point too...so its definitely a very valid point.
All I can personally say is I have hears several Jades and several James and they sounded the same to my ear.
One thing tho ....that I noticed when ben did some tests in my studio was "all" has mics had a richness and fullness that just is not present in other mics made by much more well known manufacturers, a couple of these mics were ownd by others..so there is no way they could have been made to sound worse...it was just a fact of life that they did.


Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
It has nothing to do with sound, but with a production environment that ensures consistency not only for ONE hand selected piece like for this test, but for all the mics from that series.
Hmmm yea...again I totally agree with this, and this remains to be seen for sure, but again only Ben can inspire confidence in this area.
However I will add that Legacy Audio marketed and promoted the Telefunken AK47 because it was consistent in specs and sound across many models.
However I have heard this Mic and I personally dont like it that much at all, in a shootout with Bens, it did not cut the mustard at all...no richness, no low end information.
I engineered that session, so I know what went on...and the Telefunken was set up exactly like Bens mics.
So although I agree with you on this point , that mics need to have consistency across the range....I would personally rather have inconsistent good sounding mics than average consistent ones.
I build guitars from time to time and I am a fanatic on sound...and I can tell you its "impossible" to get a guitar to come out sounding exactly like another..even with the same wood, pups electronics etc..
My point here is vintage guitars cost a lot more than vintage mics, but the criteria is different and people accept the differences even tho there is a lot more money involved.


Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
I would just never buy a mic from someone who has nothing more than claims to offer. If in reality people test his microphones and like and keep them that is all fine. Just don't try to market over the internet then, since this comes across as selling 'snake oil' to the technically challenged.

As far as the claims go...many of the users are making a lot of those, and other respected persons as well..(they have been mentioned)
So I think it's a little unfair to point the finger at Ben by saying "someone who has nothing more than claims to offer"...others are making them too, thats a very important point.

In connection to the point that.."Just don't try to market over the internet"
Well in a sense everyone more or less markets across the internet, online sales are the main method of selling these days.
There are many websites that claim "Levon Helm" uses these mics in his studio etc.." (they don't mention it's perhaps for ashtrays LOL!!)
Such and such a respected shop will say this a "great" mic...and they publish spec sheets and so on, but the mic may actually be crap, I have been caught like that more than once...many people have this in them especially when they are selling something... its called "the tendency to cheat".
My point is online buying is challenging to say the least.
I buy all my guitars and parts and pups online (I have no choice) now sometimes I am lucky and get a bargain, other times I have bought duds...but I had to take that chance because I have no other choice.
Sometimes I buy off reputable dealers and other times I buy of individuals that have not much of a history.
It's really up to the individual...but when you say things like "snake oil to the technically challenged" etc...these are pretty strong words and are sure to get peoples backs up.
Not mine tho, I have two of his mics and I am happy with them, and that's enough for me.
At the end of the day...you have some solid points no doubt and a lot of it may be addressed when Ben gets a proper website.

The other thing is...I think Ben should get someone like JJBlair to review and test his mics...maybe even Fletcher, (both known to be ruthless if they think something is "snake oil")
So I guess we will see what happens in the future, I know Ben is very confident...and from everything I have seen and heard, he has reason to be, but time is the test of all things, legends and reputations are not built overnight..so we will see.
Cheers
Astro
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #262
Lives for gear
 
mics's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
My criticism is not how the microphones in this "test" sound or don't sound.
There are simple rules how comparisons between gear should be conducted. I certainly did not make them up and they in no way represent my "opinion" or my "stubbornness" as you say. With this test almost everything was wrong.
-Done by the manufacturer himself
Over the last 3 months, people on this forum have been asking me to shootout my mics against some classics so..... this is what i did!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
-no truely independent experts present (the manufacturer payed for the studio, correct?)
Rick Oneil stated the order was correct, check out his reputation, do you honeslty think he would be willing to steak it by posting that the results order was true and correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
-published over the internet, but no information for the microphones available, except a distant group photo..
Not True, there is a great deal of information available right here in GS

Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
-no reasonable verification possible, what was inside those BeeSneez mics, those were prototypes...
They were not prototypes, they are production models, the James was sold on the day to the vocalist TJ and the others too have since been sold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
-We were promised pictures of the test setup: where are they?.
Wow what a deal breaker this is!!, i'll email them to you if you wish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
The legacy Neumann mics are long out of production. They will have been within the manufacturers specs at time of production, but now many decades later it is silly to assume that they just represent their kind within reasonable tolerances..
Maintained by Gunter Wagner!!! Need i say more, just call him and ask if they are any good!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️

Regarding people calling me "tech jockey":
Go get a life (and some knowledge). No one will judge a microphone's sound by the specs.

If someone steps up to the table to play with the big guys he needs to represent some data:.
I have Pm'd you and offered to call you at my expense to talk techie, but you have not responded to my pm's

Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
1.) Does he even have the ability at all to measure his mics and thus control quality and keep them within tolerances? Judging by the information available - actually NOT available - on the internet he can't even measure his mics..
I have many ways to test my mics including Tef, Audio Precision and a Lindos measurement set too.....again, i have offered to share but yet to hear from you.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
2.)In professional environments if in the middle of a tracking session one mic goes belly up we must replace it with a similar model. Now published specs from a manufacturer give you reasonable confidence that he is able to make his mics alike within narrow tolerances..
All of my mics (except for custom mods) are within 2db in all respects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
It has nothing to do with sound, but with a production environment that ensures consistency not only for ONE hand selected piece like for this test, but for all the mics from that series..
See above

Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
I would just never buy a mic from someone who has nothing more than claims to offer, and only here I voice my personal opinion. It is the way this whole thing looks to me over the internet only. If in reality people test his microphones and like and keep them that is all fine. Just don't try to market over the internet then, since this comes across as selling 'snake oil' to the technically challenged.
I haven't asked you to buy a mic!

but don't let that stop you, i haven't asked you to call to question my skills either.

btw, the offer is still open, let me call you or you can call me.

lets put this crap to rest.

cheers
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #263
Lives for gear
 
asagaai's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiokurt ➡️
Maybe I am missing something here but where did Gunter Wagner or Turtle Rock Engineering verify this? I had contacted Mr. Wagner myself on Thursday and he admitted that his comment was based on the soundfiles on GS only. .

Hey Audiokurt

You only have 4 or so posts that are very mike specific and seem very spec orientated rather that a gearslutz member orientated based on users using their ears.

Just curious- do you work for a mike manufacturer, are you in any way contracted to a mike manufacturer, and/or are you in any way directly or indirectly related to sales for a mike manufacturer?

You have put Ben Sneesby under the microscope regarding his ethics-just curious about you- you have not posted much info about yourself on your user /homepage which is always a warning sign to me.

PS- for instance- on my homepage I am an open book-what you see is what you get- now what about you?

GJ
Newcastle/OZ.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #264
Lives for gear
 
blaugruen7's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i dont get it.

do we have any contract on gearslutz that says you have to do a shootout in any special way before posting?

HELL, NO!!!
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #265
Lives for gear
 
asagaai's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Time Out

Ben- Iam sick of this turkey shoot. I will not be posting on this thread anymore.

I sent you an e-mail about ordering a James- few queries about style/look etc- if you could e-mail me back that would be great.

Thanks

GJ
Newcastle/OZ
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #266
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mics ➡️
...
I have Pm'd you and offered to call you at my expense to talk techie, but you have not responded to my pm's
...
Look, this is getting very strange. Why should we talk, based on what? I encourage you to share any technical information you have, any measurement graph etc. here publicly and first of all on your website.

This is not about honor and integrity, this is about some f*** microphones.
So if you want them to be tested and the results known worldwide then just do it the right way. Provide some data for your microphones. Have independent professionals verify the test methods and results. Make it transparent. Why not inviting others like Mr. Wagner to your shootout? Why not some journalists from the pro audio press? Most of that is just common sense.

Seeing you going through all this effort and expenses without doing it in a way that inspires confidence you have done your cause no good.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #267
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mics ➡️
...
I have many ways to test my mics including Tef, Audio Precision and a Lindos measurement set too.....again, i have offered to share but yet to hear from you.....
...
So how do you measure frequency response? With TEF? At which distance? Can we see the graphs? Do you have measured polar patterns over the whole frequency band?
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #268
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Honestly, folks. People have been demanding Ben to "put up or shut up" about his mics for half a year now (including, well, er, um ... myself). And he did ... "put up", that is. Maybe this is the most brilliant anti-advertising ploy in history, and Ben is an amateur hypnotist and has brainwashed us all into demanding more info on his mics - but to me that seems fairly unlikely. Anyway, a lot of people thought they wanted more information about them, and FWIW, now they have it.

I mean, we're talking about microphones here. Doesn't everyone already get that a shootout offers nothing but general flavor? Of course people are going to have different experiences with the mic. Any company with a decent return policy should be given some slack in these things. If it doesn't work, you can get your money back.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #269
Gear Maniac
 
Astromann's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mics ➡️
All of my mics (except for custom mods) are within 2db in all respects.
I have one of those custom mods...actually it's a complete re build that I bought along with the Arabella.
Gotta say I love it!! No specs..nothing...but it does sound bloody awesome!
Very thick tonality based on a 12ax7 valve...it could be described as "very thick snake oil"...and very warm too!
I intend to get a nice bottle for it soon! he he
Its like a good custom guitar...doesn't sound like Fender Strat or Tele etc...it has it's own voice...and it's a good voice.
Just my 2 cents
Cheers
Astro
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #270
Gear Addict
 
turtlerock's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
Put yourself in the shoes of people worldwide reading this.
"Rick O'Neills awesome M49" means NOTHING to at least 99.9 % of the audio professionals worldwide.
"ouch" i would like to think at some point in time i have reached more then .1% of the the pro audio community world wide with my endeavors over the last two decades...

err ...actually am sure i have
but if in your opinion my friend Gunter is a highly known audio professional with a higher count then my little .1 % then
....well i am sure we will have a good laugh about this together
err you do know i AM that well known journalist from the pro audio press you wanted at the shoot out right ..?
as well as being a record maker right ?


but come on,
let me restate my position here so we are clear to all ,

ben hired the studio down the hall from me ( not mine ) , i gave him one of my microphones to use in his shootout because it is reknown for being a "great one ". ..actually i offered it to him just to make his shoot a bit "harder"
i also offered him another "real wagner u47w" but he had to wait two hours because it was being used on a session in one of my other rooms

i stuck my head in the studio just after the girl did her take and i listened only to that set of takes - and i noted for my own amusement the order of the microphones the boys played me .
and i have stated the internet versions are in the same order !

my feeling then- as it is now it that all microphones presented to me were sounding in the same ball park sonically .



so sonically for the mics i saw yes i will verify again what i heard.

there are a bunch of well meaning guys here who i dont know really "wanting" me to endorse bens mics and in fact this shootout on this thread and maybe they are putting words in my mouth but again lets be clear on my thoughts


bens mics didnt have the feeling of "aesetic substance" to me .. read "they look kinda underdone cosmetically " so i will not be lining up to buy one ,
if that changes then yeah sure i would tell anyone that asks they are great .

i would like to see him and any mic maker to show me 7 mics from a production run that sound the same as each other and stay that way ! .
with or without a set of specs attached - that is the hard part , thats where most mic makers let their public down - but that has nothing to do with the shoot so i digress

mr audio ergo sum , this is the internet so i am sure you are free to throw as many stones as you like but really let the dude get on with the business of making and selling his microphones .

if its fair for telefunken usa , and peluso and the rest of the crew to heavily market using this forum through dealers and clients posting their views .. why not
this brand ?

and btw mr audio ergo sum just so we are really clear I AM THE GUY WHO TOLD EVERYBODY THAT THE WAGNER MIC USED WAS NOT A U47W AND THEREFORE CAUSED ALL THIS CRAP - So how much more independant could i be?

sure ben could have done this whole thing a bit better , i think he understands that
let it go ..

By the way Mr audio ergo sum and friends
i really hate talking to people who feel they dont have to use their real name while they are attacking people who are using their real name
especially if the guy attacking is talking about "playing with the big boys"
hiding your real name it is a sure sign of ...

well its a sure sign of whats wrong with the internet !
what was that saying
"if you cannot run with the big dogs - best hide under the porch and bark a lot "

Rick O'Neil
1
Share
Closed

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 98 views: 46046
Avatar for nst7
nst7 14th February 2014
replies: 315 views: 46524
Avatar for Veronica Sneesby
Veronica Sneesby 29th June 2016
replies: 75 views: 15732
Avatar for Actualsizeaudio
Actualsizeaudio 31st March 2016
replies: 2704 views: 407718
Avatar for Diogo C
Diogo C 30th October 2015

Forum Jump
Forum Jump