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Mic Shootout BeesNeez / Wagner / Neumann
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #211
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🎧 10 years
As my mum told me when I was 8 years old,

Question before accusing, because if you 'assume' something

Do you know what Assume stands for?????, like many of you did, you 'assumed' Assume stands for 'ASS out of U and ME'

you assumed, now Gunther cleared things up, please show a little respect.

regards laddie
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #212
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Piedpiper's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
This is quite serendipitously educational for me, in that I wouldn't have known as clearly the differences between the K47 and M7 capsules, which have been well highlighted for me here. Although, I still haven't heard what a real Wagner is like, I can at least still hope that it is a viable alternative to a real 47, as it should be given Gunther's apparent approach.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #213
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Zuewi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Good that everything is cleared up now!
One thing i want to say again (what no one else said yet) that the recordings should be done with a clean preamp and a A/D what doesn't color (if aviable).
We all know that Neve has a huge ammount of colors and so Apogee Converters- It wasn't even said which Apogee converters were used yet.

I wasn't really impressed of all clips cause this huge coloration/Cloud on everything. It was much to muddy for my taste so i was also wondering about the acoustical treatment at my first post also...but i guess the studio is up to date so this should be no question.
Maybe the colored sound fits good with the female vocal but to judge a shoutout it's a no go IMHO.

Well Ben thanks for the clips in anyway, you meant it pritty good. But some "variables" got that thread lead to a "very hot ()" but interesting conversation.
It was also good that you cleared finally everything with Mr Wagner and the other involved persons in a fine way, therefore you get my respect
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #214
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E.rOk.stA's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Holy Crap! I come back a day later and all out war has broken out! It is evident that there are 4 outlooks here.

1. Those who are insulted because they own a U47w, paid big $$
for it, and are embarrased that this "U47w" mis-represented their
purchase (which could be a hard kick in the balls because everyone
wants to believe they made the BEST choice in their purchase.)

2. Those who are insulted because they know Mr. Wagner in some fashion
or another and because of that association, feel some obligation to be
mad FOR him.

3. Those who dream of a U47w (or the other Neumann's for that matter)
and are thrilled to find that they can get equal (or better depending on
taste) quality for a fraction of that cost, suddenly making that dream reality.

4. Those who are pissed 'cause of #3 who feel that you have to have
$$$ or a long, famous client list to be "in the club" of excellent sonics.

I find this lame and the critical posts have exposed the TRUE motives of such ignorant people. What's even more insane is the fake mask of a gentleman some of you try to wear while doing this. To all of you who fit in this category: You suck.tutt It's a shame that grown men (women?) are acting like slobbering babies. Get a life. You know what else is just CAPITAL? That someone actually found a way to blame American Bush voters. Ha! That's classic! I hope Ben's business multiplies because of this and in 30 years, people will be collecting HIS mics. Grow up Ladies!!

Sincerely,
Eric
past-Bush voter/ American

Moderators: You should start a classic "hijacked thread" forum with a sticky using this as an example of what not to do to a thread.
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Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #215
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johnnybregar's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Well said Eric!
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #216
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I looked at the website and there was no data about any of the mics, only mumbo jumbo. Are these real microphones with max. SPL, sensitivity, Impedance etc., a measured frequency response and polar pattern, or are these objects for decorating studios?

I find this whole thread amazing. Good stuff for students with a major in sociology and marketing.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #217
Gear Maniac
 
Astromann's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
or are these objects for decorating studios?
.
As a man who appreciates aesthetics I have to respond and say that actually they aren't too bad a decoration for a studio.
I do prefer guitars though, they somehow look better, and as far as the mics go I would definitely prefer a more Neumann like shell, maybe even powder coated
(white is a good color) with a polished nickel grill...now that would have some real decoration value!
Cheers
Astro
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #218
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GYang's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Set Surgeon ➡️

1. Those who are insulted because they own a U47w, paid big $$
for it, and are embarrased

Get a life.
Eric
past-Bush voter/ American
Well,heh, OK !

In reality it would take some time before owners of top mics really compare newcomer with reference mics they have on real life projects and make their verdicts.
I'm first to do that with pleasure.
Before that, I would not buy it based on whatever shootout done.
I remember how I liked Korby U47 over rented original U47 (and I still have Korby), but Wagner is head and shoulders better U47 over it.
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #219
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Apology to turtlerock!

"turtleroc" informed me via PM that I must have mixed him up with Mr. Sneesby.

I did not. I read it as turtleroc were the studio owner which did not tell Ben that this was not a regular U47w. It was easy to misinterpret because he posted insider info, but still my fault. I was not enraged about Ben, more about the guy who did not tell Ben the fact.

However... I'd like to apologize to turtlerock and like to turn it into the opposite and thank your for your info. Sorry for the misinterpretation. Everything else I said is valid. I think those shoot outs don't do justice because they can be misleading and unfair to some mic manufacturer although they are well-intentioned. Just my opinion.

Gunter Wagner is one of the finest mic builder and a true gentlemen. Otherwise I wouldn't have spend my time here...


Original comment by turtlerock:


Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlerock ➡️
oh yes i feel compelled to state that the wagner [/B]used was not in fact a from a "production run" of his fabulous mike but a set (kit) of parts supplied to the studio and put together by them when the wagner 47 was in prototype stages and it has a neumann k47 capsule not the production m7 wagner remake !


i hope that helps

My outraged answer:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nashvillean ➡️
I hope this helps? As a Wagner U47 and Neumann U47 user I'm pretty pissed about this! How can you dare!

Thank you all...


Nash
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #220
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GYang's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nashvillean ➡️

Gunter Wagner is one of the finest mic builder and a true gentlemen. Otherwise I wouldn't have spend my time here...


First of all, we welcome Mr.Wagner on this board.

If the outcome of this thread is that Mr.Wagner joint us and hopefully share some insights in the future than we have some real result out of it.
It's great to see new manufacturers that work really hard to provide excellent products and help gearslutzs in making better music.
Mr.Wagner is already established in that, his approach is rare and unique, level of service the highest imaginable. For mentioned reason, adequate and sensible approaches are utmost prerequiste before making loud conclusions.
Comparing mics is all about nuances and not so straightforward process as comparing pres, comps, EQs or even digital converters.
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #221
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KEYBEEETSSS's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I will say going thru all these posts, (as I had been trying to stay out of it) that 1st of I actually like the James myself out of all the samples;but in saying that, when I 1st read/saw about ur mics BEN on this site that when I went to ur website I Immediately turned away from it because there was just literature which is something most common ppl have the least care about; We/I wanted to see something & when I didn't, as much as I like how ur mics sounds & as much as I see talk about it on GS, I was/am uninterested; just my 2cents...
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #222
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
In funny times we are living...
If it is not on the web then it does not exist.
I for once don't "listen" to published numbers (or specs), or would have been buried with Behringer gear all over my place...
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #223
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by synchu ➡️
In funny times we are living...
If it is not on the web then it does not exist.
I for once don't "listen" to published numbers (or specs), or would have been buried with Behringer gear all over my place...
What a complete BS. But if you cater to the illiterate you probably don't write a book either.
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #224
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
I looked at the website and there was no data about any of the mics, only mumbo jumbo. Are these real microphones with max. SPL, sensitivity, Impedance etc., a measured frequency response and polar pattern, or are these objects for decorating studios?

I find this whole thread amazing. Good stuff for students with a major in sociology and marketing.
The above post is a fine example of a tech jocky.

Wheres my 'graphs' mum.

Hey, Studio Projects mic's have 'their' graphs up, so to Behringer, I think these mic's would better suit your cabinet.

Just listen to the clips, use your ears, they are much more effective than a spectrum graph.

Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #225
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
OK the starting post of this thread giving the details of the mic's used has been updated as there was a correction that needed to be made.
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #226
Gear Maniac
 
Astromann's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules ➡️
OK the starting post of this thread giving the details of the mic's used has been updated as there was a correction that needed to be made.
I think Ben may have been banned from GS...I am not quite sure why or by whom? (I am not 100% sure of this tho)
All he did was do a shootout at the request of many that heard his earlier mic samples, and apparently he didn't have any control over what mic was placed where in terms of position in the studio, the engineers did that from what I have been told.
He has been accused of everything from doctoring the samples to switching badges on mics...pretty ridiculous when many others were present at that shootout at Phil Punches studio.
Even Gunter made his first post ever...and as a side point he commented that Ben's mics are good and was very gracious about the whole incident, so once the Wagner incident was cleared up...it seemed like things should have calmed down here.
But some people just like to cause conflict and make accusations!
There are those that like the mics...based on their ears and others that demand spec sheets and different types of testing procedures...lets just leave it at that. I am sure he will get all the spec stuff done on his web site eventually.
If you don't like how the tests were conducted (no test is totally perfect anyway)...you don't have to take part or claim he rigged it in his favor or whatever, just simply buy a mic that suits how you like things presented, its that easy.

I am a guitar head myself and I feel more at home talking about guitars than mics...(it suits my ego better cause I know a lot more about them than I do about mics...anyone care to talk about what scatter wound pups sound best LOL!!)
But I do have a set of ears that I use occasionally and have heard his mics, and they are good...very good, even Rick O'Neil seems to be saying that (and he is one of the most respected mastering engineers in Australia...he owns the M49 to boot).
He is not at precious about it at all, that's an example of someone who definitely appears to be unbiased and even minded about all of this and is not trying to "protect his turf".
At the end of the day...as George Martin's book says "All you need is ears"

BTW for those that may want to flame me over this...I am not saying spec sheets are bad (I like them at times too...and I would like to see some technical data and photo's etc on Ben's site for sure)...I definitely agree with KEYBEEETSSS on this....but right now based on the shootout and other samples on the Arabella link etc...Our ears have to be the judge.
And maybe an Admin would be kind enough to let us know why Ben appears to have been banned?
Peace
Astro
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #227
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by laddie.music2 ➡️


The above post is a fine example of a tech jocky.

Wheres my 'graphs' mum.

Hey, Studio Projects mic's have 'their' graphs up, so to Behringer, I think these mic's would better suit your cabinet.

Just listen to the clips, use your ears, they are much more effective than a spectrum graph.

Are you real? Wow!
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #228
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
Are you real? Wow!

hahahahaha ;-),

stike
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #229
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bcgood's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Just wanted to post my observation after listening to all of the wave files. In all cases I much preferred the actual Neumann U47.

Silky smooth and 3D.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #230
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astromann ➡️
I think Ben may have been banned from GS...I am not quite sure why or by whom? (I am not 100% sure of this tho)

And maybe an Admin would be kind enough to let us know why Ben appears to have been banned?
Peace
Astro
surely not?
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #231
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pan60 ➡️
surely not?
When someone is banned on GS, it will state very clearly under their username that they have been banned. So, instead of saying "Lives for Gear" or "Gear Head", it will say "Banned".

No one has been "banned".
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #232
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont ➡️
When someone is banned on GS, it will state very clearly under their username that they have been banned. So, instead of saying "Lives for Gear" or "Gear Head", it will say "Banned".

No one has been "banned".
thanks Tony
i could not see why he would have been.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #233
Gear Maniac
 
Astromann's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont ➡️
When someone is banned on GS, it will state very clearly under their username that they have been banned. So, instead of saying "Lives for Gear" or "Gear Head", it will say "Banned".

No one has been "banned".
As I said...I wasn't 100% sure, I heard that.
So thanks for the info....Cool!!
Cheers
Astro
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #234
JMc
Gear Addict
 
JMc's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Maybe Mr. Sneesby is just taking a well deserved break after all of this excitement.

I'd just like to throw something out there for consideration.

I have a high regard for the guys that make boutique mics. Especially guys that can make their own capsules! Most of these guys are quite modest, which I also respect and find impressive.

Speaking only for myself, I was a little offended by Mr. Sneesby in the Pearlman TM-1 / Jade thread in which it was inferred in sort of a back door way that the TM-1 in question was a piece of crap that not only needed one of his "hand-made" capsules, but that it also needed a rather extensive overhaul by Mr. Sneesby to make it sound the way it ought to. There was also some reference to the TM-1 stock capsule as being Chinese, which of course is false. That thread really rubbed me the wrong way. I don't think that Mr. Sneesby's intention was to knee cap his pal, Dave Pearlman by suggesting that he needed to redesign the TM-1, but that's how the thread came off to me.

Then we find out during this one that the Wagner U47w that sounded like crap, really wasn't a proper U47w at all. Again, that has been cleared up to everyone's satisfaction, it appears, but it caused bad feelings, without question.

It's okay to talk yourself up, but I think when you do so, you run the risk of greater scrutiny than the guy who goes about his business quietly and lets his satisfied customers do all the talking for him. Whether that scrutiny is fair or justified is not for me to say. I'm just saying that I think it's basic human nature to be more wary of someone who is promoting their own financial self-interests while feigning otherwise.

That said, I wish Ben Sneesby every success - just so long as it doesn't come at the expense of trashing the reputation of others (inadvertently or otherwise) whose hard work and quality products I admire, whether I own them or not.

I think that Gunter Wagner and Dave Pearlman have the right idea. Do your thing, take care of your customers and success will beat a path to your door.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #235
Gear Maniac
 
Astromann's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcgood ➡️
Just wanted to post my observation after listening to all of the wave files. In all cases I much preferred the actual Neumann U47.

Silky smooth and 3D.
I actually liked the M49 best, then the James...I didn't like the Arabella as much as many of the others in that particular test.
But I have heard that mic in real life (compared to a Neumann U67 and all of Bens other Mics plus a couple of Peluso's) and I bought it instantly, it is an amazing mic...but in the test it did not come thru as well as some of the others.
Oh well...there are always loads of variables in most tests.
Cheers
Astro
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #236
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Docmattic's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
bens account has been changed so he can only view this thread...nothing else.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #237
Gear Maniac
 
Astromann's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMc ➡️
Maybe Mr. Sneesby is just taking a well deserved break after all of this excitement.
True...and there has been a lot of excitement and friction LOL!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by JMc ➡️
I love mics. I particularly love boutique mics and have a high regard for the guys that make them. Most of these guys are quite modest, which I also respect and find impressive.
Yeah...know what you mean...if I could afford a Wagner I would probably buy one.
I love boutique guitars tho..mainly...just something about them. heh


Quote:
Originally Posted by JMc ➡️
Speaking only for myself, I think I was a little offended by Mr. Sneesby in the Pearlman TM-1 / Jade thread in which it was inferred in sort of a back door way that the TM-1 in question was a piece of crap that not only needed one of his "hand-made" capsules, in which is was erroneously stated by someone that the stock Pearlman capsules were Chinese, but that the mic needed a complete overhaul by Mr. Sneesby to make it sound the way it ought to. This really rubbed me the wrong way. I don't think that Mr. Sneesby's intention was to knee cap his pal, Dave Pearlman by suggesting that he needed to redesign the TM-1, but that's how the thread came off to me.
Yeah...Having met Ben in real tho...he is very praiseworthy of Pearlman and Gunter and others, and came across as being quite humble...not a blowhard that is anxious to put others down.
Forums are difficult, I used to spend a lot of time on 3d forums...and people fight over what is the best shade of blue etc...In real life you get a far better picture of what a person means...cause you can read their attitude better.
But I know what you mean, its always nice to pay respects to everyone, and many of these guys (Gunter, Pearlman etc..) are obviously incredible craftsmen.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JMc ➡️
That said, I wish Ben Sneesby every success - just so long as it doesn't come at the expense of trashing the reputation of others (inadvertently or otherwise) whose hard work and quality products I admire, whether I own them or not.
As I said in real life..I never got the slightest whiff of that from Ben...otherwise it would have gotten my back up.
Self aggrandizement is never an attractive feature in a person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMc ➡️
I think that Gunter Wagner and Dave Pearlman have the right idea. Do your thing, take care of your customers and success will beat a path to your door.
Agreed
Cheers
Astro
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #238
JMc
Gear Addict
 
JMc's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Well, I'm glad that we were able to get all of that off our chests!! heh
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #239
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asagaai's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Speaking only for myself, I was a little offended by Mr. Sneesby in the Pearlman TM-1 / Jade thread in which it was inferred in sort of a back door way that the TM-1 in question was a piece of crap that not only needed one of his "hand-made" capsules, but that it also needed a rather extensive overhaul by Mr. Sneesby to make it sound the way it ought to. There was also some reference to the TM-1 stock capsule as being Chinese, which of course is false. That thread really rubbed me the wrong way. I don't think that Mr. Sneesby's intention was to knee cap his pal, Dave Pearlman by suggesting that he needed to redesign the TM-1, but that's how the thread came off to me.
Hey JMC- I feel this is my fault. It was my Pearlman- and I had huge difficulty with Australian customs- it went missing- chased up Dave-the airline etc-finally found in customs some months later. It was all rather sickening and I am not so keen shipping expensive mikes international anymore.

No doubt that the TM1 I had did have problems -and I was at fault for never contacting Dave who would have rectified no doubt-but I did not want to deal with AUS customs again with all that drama. Sorry Dave-but you may recall all the drama dealing with "the authorities".

Ben was quite correct when he mentioned that in our discussions I asked whether he could fix it up to get rid of noise/brightness and make it sound like a Wagner U47 which I had heard at the Limestone shootout and was impressed with.

As regards the original capsule in my TM1 no #187, I thought it was a twin backplate capsule made in China but assembled by Peluso in USA. If this is not right perhaps Dave or others could confirm?

Ben replaced that capsule with his single backplate capsule.

I was just excited by the sounds of both mikes and wanted to spread the news to other gearsluts about the sounds I was getting out of the mikes. I sure like it when other members spread word about a product they find very good.

Quote:
I didn't like the Arabella as much as many of the others in that particular test.
But I have heard that mic in real life (compared to a Neumann U67 and all of Bens other Mics plus a couple of Peluso's) and I bought it instantly, it is an amazing mic...but in the test it did not come thru as well as some of the others.

This was exactly my experience as well.

What this test has shown is that some people have found Ben Sneesbys mikes are in that same sorta region of sonics as a U47/M49-and it sure is great to have another manufacturer making such mikes at such prices.

It also is a warning to people setting up shootouts using classic revered mikes to fully check the history and not take a mike and it's body badge at face value. I think Ben has ended up being a voodoo doll with people luxuriating in sticking pins into him because he comes off a bit bolshie in threads sometimes and cause he has made mikes that sound too bloody good to be true for the money.

Anyway-sory if I have offended any Pearlman TM1 users or Dave Pearlman-blame australian customs.

GJ
Newcastle/OZ
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #240
Gear Maniac
 
Astromann's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Docmattic ➡️
bens account has been changed so he can only view this thread...nothing else.
So is that some kinda partial ban?
Pretty strange...cause its his thread
Astro
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