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Mic Shootout BeesNeez / Wagner / Neumann
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #151
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Piedpiper's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveBoker ➑️
What was the chain?
a few posts back.

"the chain was a pristine neve melbourne desk (3115 module and the same actual mic pre on all mics via a patch bay) into apogee converters into HD tools"
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #152
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insomnio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
What a frustration: I preferred the #6. I was hoping to like a cheaper mic best.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #153
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by insomnio ➑️
What a frustration: I preferred the #6. I was hoping to like a cheaper mic best.
Your choice doesn't surprise me, the 47 is a truly beautiful microphone.

What makes me really happy though are the different opinions and favourites that people are posting. It is confirming to me that once you get to this level, taste is truly a subjective choice.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #154
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo ➑️
It's like a dad judging a talent show that his son is in.
Well... not quite. Because the dad is hosting the talent show, but now WE get to vote. And then 10% will argue about whether the dad turned the PA down for the other acts, and that discussion will consume 90% of the thread.

More light, less heat.

Thanks for the files.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #155
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Sharkus's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
This just in!

BeesNeez, stands proud among world class mics!

thumbsup Noice Moiks Indeed! thumbsup
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #156
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Docmattic's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Ben

you dont know how hard it is for me not to purchase one before my holiday...haha, im finding it very hard to keep telling my self "no' ...much like the way you tell a dog.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #157
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by asagaai ➑️
IMO on a big voice where you want some of that huge dynamic to power through- the Arabella Tm1 really shone and had some magic that IMO the Jade could not match- and this difference was not discernable in the first clips to my ears. The Arabella does that thickening across the spectrum larger than reality thing-and the singer just loved singing to it.
GJ
Newcastle/OZ
Yep In practice...that is exactly what I heard too!!
The Arabella really has a big sound.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #158
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E.rOk.stA's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
WOW! This is sweet. My favorites came in this order:

1.
2.
7. (this one is the most intriguing to me, maybe the coloration?)
6.
3.
4.
5.

I guess I have some thinking to do.

Thanks again, Ben.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #159
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🎧 10 years
can i just add to the mix the real test of ANY microphone maker even the small guys is consistancy.
if the maker can make each and every microphone sound the same and STAY sounding like that for years then we are amongst greatness.


maybe do your next shootout with 7 of your own models back to back , and lets see what gives
actually lets do a test with ANY brave mic maker with 7 of their own stock , picked at random and see what gives !
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #160
JMc
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlerock ➑️
oh yes i feel compelled to state that the wagner used was not in fact a from a "production run" of his fabulous mike but a set (kit) of parts supplied to the studio and put together by them when the wagner 47 was in prototype stages and it has a neumann k47 capsule not the production m7 wagner remake !
i hope that helps
I don't own a U47w, so I don't have any horse in this race, but this is one of those little "variables" that render the comparison something less than fair, at least to the Wagner U47w.

Personally, I think just about all mic shootouts are useless in the sense that the mic pre used can make a huge difference in specific mics. One mic that may sound terrific on one pre may sound displeasing on another, while a different mic that sounded lackluster on the first pre really shines in comparison on the second.

Congrats to Ben though, for what appears to be a very solid showing, regardless of how you slice and dice it. And for some strange reason, I sneezed loudly, three times, while reading this thread!
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #161
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James Lugo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlerock ➑️
oh yes i feel compelled to state that the wagner [/B]used was not in fact a from a "production run" of his fabulous mike but a set (kit) of parts supplied to the studio and put together by them when the wagner 47 was in prototype stages and it has a neumann k47 capsule not the production m7 wagner remake !


i hope that helps
I'm confused, was it a real Wagner U47w built by Gunter or not? Mine is fat and deep and the track on this shootout sounds nothing like my Wagner, the track on this shootout sucks. If this is not a real U47w it shouldn't have been in the shootout and it's a disrespect to Gunter and his work.

What serial number Wagner is it?
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Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #162
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🎧 10 years
dont be confused this was a prototype wagner body kit , not his production run microphone

and a it has a different capsule then the wagner production run - no serial number on this mic -
maybe it should have been stated at the start

wagner asked me to clear this up this morning as he was concerned people maybe be confused ... however this shoot is not a wagner or neumann show its bens


err ben ..?
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #163
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James Lugo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm reading through this thread and I don't see this fact about the Wagner not being an actual real Wagner being addressed at the beginning of the shootout.

If this is true that this is an old protype kit with a different capsule not built by Gunter himself and that was not made crystal clear from the beginning in the first post by the person running this shootout it makes this whole shootout wrong and hurtful.
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Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #164
JMc
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlerock ➑️
however this shoot is not a wagner or neumann show its bens
Uh... yes. And that's the whole problem. It's like running the Kentucky Derby with one of the main contenders that has come up lame, only nobody is saying anything until after all the bets have been placed and the race is over. And the owner of the track happens to have three or four other horses in the race that have been thoroughly checked and cleared for the race.

Then the announcer comes on the PA and says: "Oh, and by the way..."

Not a good PR move. Kudo's for finally coming clean with the info, but it should have been clearly stated up front. Or better yet, a standard production U47w that was as well maintained as the aforementioned U47 (by Gunter, no less) should have been used.

Oh well. Live and learn.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #165
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mics's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
If anything, this Wagner was benefitted by the capsule as the capsule in that particular mic is a Neumann K47 Capsule rather than a remake of the original.

James, I certainly hope that you don't find it hurtful as the wagner on the day was and is a monster. It is an amazing microphone. If it will help i am prepared to ask Gunter to provide the best mic he has ever made and i'll redoo the shootout, i mean i would HATE to be hurtful to anyone.

Cheers.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #166
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mics ➑️
If anything, this Wagner was benefitted by the capsule as the capsule in that particular mic is a Neumann K47 Capsule rather than a remake of the original.

James, I certainly hope that you don't find it hurtful as the wagner on the day was and is a monster. It is an amazing microphone. If it will help i am prepared to ask Gunter to provide the best mic he has ever made and i'll redoo the shootout, i mean i would HATE to be hurtful to anyone.

Cheers.
If something is claimed to be one thing, and then at the end it's a different story. I don't know, I think that is deceiving the public. It's not cool. You should have just told everyone the facts about the mic from the beginning.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #167
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mics ➑️
If anything, this Wagner was benefitted by the capsule as the capsule in that particular mic is a Neumann K47 Capsule rather than a remake of the original.

James, I certainly hope that you don't find it hurtful as the wagner on the day was and is a monster. It is an amazing microphone. If it will help i am prepared to ask Gunter to provide the best mic he has ever made and i'll redoo the shootout, i mean i would HATE to be hurtful to anyone.

Cheers.
You should call Gunter.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #168
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4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mics ➑️
If anything, this Wagner was benefitted by the capsule as the capsule in that particular mic is a Neumann K47 Capsule rather than a remake of the original.


Cheers.
Hi Ben-thing is with your Arabella with the Neumann K47- mike no 5-that was my least favourite. So having a Wagner with that capsule gives me no accurate reference point at least to me.

Gotta say I was surprised by the files of the Wagner cause when I heard it at the shootout at Limestone in Sydney- it was my favourite mike by a mile against the Pearlman TM1, the Peluso and the Brauners.

If there are any slutz in Sydney/Newcastle with a Wagner I am willing to meet up to shoot out my Pearlman (which has been specced to Arabella) against the Wagner. And then the mikes could be placed one above the other and run through identical hardware recording same take- I could perhaps get that female Blues singer who has a large voice to do it (the one who did the take between the Pearlman/arabella and Jade).

Any slutz out there with a Wagner who wants to roll and do it get back to me- e-mail or call me on my mobile-see homepage.

Gavin
Newcastle/OZ
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #169
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont ➑️
The following thread shows an unscientific, yet very effective method for testing 8 high end microphones all at the same time, using the same performance, and distance, etc. It's the best mic test I have seen on GS in a while, and it is simple to do a test like this:

https://gearspace.com/board/high-end...o-samples.html


Dude, I've got to tell you Tony. You are coming off as very aggressive, unfriendly and biased in this thread. I disagree with your assessment that the linked method of testing mics is the most effective method to test mics. Each mic is in a different position relative to the singer in that case. This effects the sound coming from the mics just as much as performance. Especially if you're dealing with a professional singer that knows how to deliver a consistent performance; the method of just testing one mic at a time can be a great measure of a mic especially since when you actually use the mic it will be just the mic and the singer.

We all know that you are a dealer and a moderator for the rap forum on here and pretty consistently, aggressively protect your turf but come on...

Try not to throw your weight around at least some of the time and keep the free information flowing on Gearslutz.

Keep on rocking in the free world dude!
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #170
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DeepSpace's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mics ➑️
James, I certainly hope that you don't find it hurtful as the wagner on the day was and is a monster.
Apparently it isn't even a Wagner. From what has been reported, it is a microphone assembled by someone else from a mix of prototype Wagner parts (that pre-date the first U47w), plus some non-Wagner parts.

I'm sorry, Ben, but shooting out your mics against it and then publishing the results claiming you were shooting out against a Wagner seems very dodgy indeed.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #171
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🎧 10 years
Sounds like we'll get some more clips coming soon with new wagner clips...

I think it should be noted there is a real 49, a real U47 in these recordings and from the general response Bens mic's have been holding up, The wagner situation will be cleared up.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #172
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Neville H.'s Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
WHY IS A MANUFACTURER DOING THIS STUFF ON THIS FORUM? How can a guy who makes some of these mics post a shootout of his stuff against more expensive mics and everyone accepts it in this way.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #173
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adamcal's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I dont automatically assume ben knew in advance it wasn't a current U47w, he may have simply been told "its a wagner" and took that on face value.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #174
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TonyBelmont's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcgood ➑️


Dude, I've got to tell you Tony. You are coming off as very aggressive, unfriendly and biased in this thread. I disagree with your assessment that the linked method of testing mics is the most effective method to test mics. Each mic is in a different position relative to the singer in that case. This effects the sound coming from the mics just as much as performance. Especially if you're dealing with a professional singer that knows how to deliver a consistent performance; the method of just testing one mic at a time can be a great measure of a mic especially since when you actually use the mic it will be just the mic and the singer.

We all know that you are a dealer and a moderator for the rap forum on here and pretty consistently, aggressively protect your turf but come on...

Try not to throw your weight around at least some of the time and keep the free information flowing on Gearslutz.

Keep on rocking in the free world dude!
I'm sorry if I came off aggressive or unfriendly. I didn't believe that testing procedures (which I am very passionate about) would become so aggressively debated in this thread.

I have a philosophical difference about how gear should be tested, and I fully stand by everything I said... but, it was not my intentions to come off unfriendly or anything else.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #175
JMc
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🎧 10 years
Credibility is being stretched six ways to Sunday in this thread. I'll let others draw their own conclusions regarding whose and in what manner...
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #176
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🎧 10 years
lets see if i can clear up some things

1.
i am happy to state that the numbers on the shoot were as i saw them on the day
2.
happy to tell you all that gunter rang me to make sure that it was public knowledge that it was not a production mic used which is why i added it to my post
3.
happy to tell you that beez knees rang me to ask more about the wagner not being a production model mic because he was worried that this information makes him look bad and i do not believe there was any malice or trickery involved whatso ever

4 i am amazed at how fast the world spins nowadays

5. i have no interests in wagner mics nor beezneez business activities

6 i cannot spell
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #177
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bcgood's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont ➑️
I'm sorry if I came off aggressive or unfriendly. I didn't believe that testing procedures (which I am very passionate about) would become so aggressively debated in this thread.

I have a philosophical difference about how gear should be tested, and I fully stand by everything I said... but, it was not my intentions to come off unfriendly or anything else.
Thanks, I'll take you at your word.

I consider it water under the bridge.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #178
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4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlerock ➑️
lets see if i can clear up some things

1.
i am happy to state that the numbers on the shoot were as i saw them on the day
2.
happy to tell you all that gunter rang me to make sure that it was public knowledge that it was not a production mic used which is why i added it to my post
3.
happy to tell you that beez knees rang me to ask more about the wagner not being a production model mic because he was worried that this information makes him look bad and i do not believe there was any malice or trickery involved whatso ever

4 i am amazed at how fast the world spins nowadays

5. i have no interests in wagner mics nor beezneez business activities

6 i cannot spell


Mr R O'Neill-now I suppose this thread which goes from heh all within a couple of days will form the foundation for yet another excellent article by you in Audio Technology-which I must admit is my favourite part of the magazine.


GJ
Newcastle/OZ
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #179
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlerock ➑️
lets see if i can clear up some things

1.
i am happy to state that the numbers on the shoot were as i saw them on the day
2.
happy to tell you all that gunter rang me to make sure that it was public knowledge that it was not a production mic used which is why i added it to my post
3.
happy to tell you that beez knees rang me to ask more about the wagner not being a production model mic because he was worried that this information makes him look bad and i do not believe there was any malice or trickery involved whatso ever

4 i am amazed at how fast the world spins nowadays

5. i have no interests in wagner mics nor beezneez business activities

6 i cannot spell

I'll add...

1. A real U47 was used on these clips adn universally agreed upon that it sounded brilliant

2. Most people liked the Bees Neez James and Jade and Arabella to be in same league, not exactly the same, but in same company.

3. A real U47 was used, what better reference is there??????????


Everyone should understand that Ben has offered to re record the wagner.

As chopper says 'HARDEN THE #$CK UP' Gear Slutz, and remember, the real reference to end all references is a 'real' U47.

The Wagner situation will be cleared up. I for one will look forward to hearing the new Wagner clips.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #180
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James Lugo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
This thread has become a bit of a disaster, honestly I wish I never read it in the first place nor ever posted but what is done is done.

Note to self, make music.

Signing off folks.

Peace,
James
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