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Neve 8816: The Real Test
Old 7th October 2013
  #241
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
I just read the whole damned thread

For the people who didnt read , there was 4 mixes posted. 1 rough itb , 1 summed itb but passed through 8816, 1 vicoden influenced rough otb, and 3 years later a polished otb 8816 mix

The final polished mix far surpassed the others imo, new to this thread please listen to the 4th mix

I personally dig the sound of summing mixers, and im thinking about getting one. I know i love the sound of the 8816, but i am keeping a close watch on the sigma. ( it will come down to the sound quality)

Can anyone comment on the a/d option for the 8816? How does it compare to other converters?
Old 11th October 2013 | Show parent
  #242
Gear Addict
 
creative69's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerchunis ➡️
I just read the whole damned thread

For the people who didnt read , there was 4 mixes posted. 1 rough itb , 1 summed itb but passed through 8816, 1 vicoden influenced rough otb, and 3 years later a polished otb 8816 mix

The final polished mix far surpassed the others imo, new to this thread please listen to the 4th mix

I personally dig the sound of summing mixers, and im thinking about getting one. I know i love the sound of the 8816, but i am keeping a close watch on the sigma. ( it will come down to the sound quality)

Can anyone comment on the a/d option for the 8816? How does it compare to other converters?
I hear it to man!! you cant make people hear what they cant hear, and they will try to tell those who can its just placebo and so the story goes....
Old 26th October 2013
  #243
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vato ➡️
Sorry to put up a new thread but there seemed to be some wandering topics in that other one. Anyways THIS is a REAL test of what seemed to be the majority vote.
I want yall to know I didnt use ANY external hardware for this exept for the NEVE 8816. In the case of the ITB mix it is just bounced to disc. I also would like to give a disclaimer for being in a hurry to do this mix. This is not how this mix is going to sound. I have the Neve not only for its sonic watermark but for these other reasons:
1. outboard integration
2. Inserts- there is a standard one on as well as a mix insert that allows me to "dial in" the amount of iserted signal
3. Control Room Section ( the people in the booth never heard it so good)
4.Width Control- this is handy but you can get carried away.
5.A/D--this option is one of the best converters Ive heard and will allow DSD

So here it is. I tried to get the levels the same. they seem to be. I will again leave them unidentified untill later. Note that I still think there is more benefit from the Neve when you sum more that just a stereo track which is what I did here.
Vatoheh
Man, nice work, i've just got the album on itunes. Very, very nice production, mix and musicians. Did everything made in Neve 8816?
Old 6th November 2013
  #244
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Progmatic-Studios's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
We're can I find Nebula MWC??
Old 10th May 2015
  #245
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Wow but… It doesn't surprise me at all that some people can't hear the difference. To me the difference is Very noticeable. Think about when when you make a change in the mix that your client can't hear. You perceive it very clearly but they can't differentiate at all and they just say " whatever you thinks best go with it cause I can't tell you did anything." It happens all the time. Some people just can't hear it! to some people it comes across as a feel. I own a MixDream and a Dangerous 2bus and they both very clearly impact the sound of the mix in different ways.
Old 26th September 2015 | Show parent
  #246
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steveschizoid's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Really there hasn't been a valid comparison here, and I have no idea how this summing mixer sounds as a result.

Let's review: First the OP posted an ITB mix, then and ITB mix sent to the mix buss of the device. Note: both mixes were SUMMED ITB. Then the OP revised the mix, added outboard gear and actually summed through the device, guaranteeing a totally different result with WAY more variables changing than just the one we needed for a valid comparison.

Google Todd Burke Recording Engineer. He does a brilliant shootout that gets to the heart of the matter and posted it in on his blog. he had no agenda - he was using borrowed devices and wasn't trying to prove anything one way or the other.

The differences are not subtle.

I'd post a link, but GS might ban me for doing so.

You first have to make an ITB mix. Then you have to calibrate all the I/O of the summing devices involved such that level changes are not introduced. Then you have to send stems out and actually have the summing mixer sum the ITB stems without changing any other variable. If you want to push the mixbuss and reduce the output, I suppose that's fair, but the internal balance between the stems has to stay put.
Old 20th February 2020 | Show parent
  #247
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animix's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnscalia ➡️
B is the Neve. A is the ITB mix.
Thanks to so many of you who had simply used their ears and made a conclusion,
I would also like to note that I DID NOT use the width control on this test. If I had it would have been more obvious. I just wanted yall to hear the diference of what JUST sending the main outputs to the Neve would do. I read that some of you were concluding that I should have filled up the Neves channels for the OTB track.
I still have to finish mixing that song and I will post the final product later.
I only had so much time last night. The final mix will slam when I get the Neve filled up and also get my outboard involved.
Thanks to all- Vato
Interesting old thread. I heard an obvious difference on an iPad mini.

Last edited by animix; 20th February 2020 at 06:42 PM..
Old 28th October 2020
  #248
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Neve 8816 Integration

Hi guys.

i got the unit a few days ago thinking it would fit nicely into my setup.

Found myself doing a 4 day connectivity research which has led me to doubt if this thing is worth the effort of not.

I kinda like the idea of having the analog hands on feel and sound (although a midi controller is necessary anyway) and the CR section which i wanted to get anyway. Also it may be possible to expand i/o to 16 using the Neve D/A converters with and option card. Has anyone tried that?

Contacted Lynx as well as AMS Neve in regards to setting up the unit.
Lynx were not sure and AMS no reply...

Specs:
Lynx AES16e + Aurora 8
AMS Neve + 25pin HD to 25pin cable
3 pairs of monitors
Preamps and stuff
PC Windows 7/ Cubase 10.5/Mixbus/Ableton

Any insights on how to make this easier integration?
Old 28th October 2020 | Show parent
  #249
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StarfishMusic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ydaffan ➡️
Hi guys.

i got the unit a few days ago thinking it would fit nicely into my setup.

Found myself doing a 4 day connectivity research which has led me to doubt if this thing is worth the effort of not.
I own one. It's worth it. It sounds great. You'll need at least 16 outputs on your audio interface, preferably 18 the way I use it. The extra 2 outputs are for your monitoring setup. The 8816 has outs for speakers BUT you really want to hear the return back to your computer and software monitor that. That way you really hear what you're getting and not the pre A/D sound and can put on buss plugins if you want.

Dsubs are expensive, converter channels are expensive, but summing is one of the few things you can do that takes NO subjective skill and not much time to get a better sound. People might argue that, whatever. You have it, might as well try. You can still get a feel for it with 8 outs if thats all you got.
Old 28th October 2020 | Show parent
  #250
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarfishMusic ➡️
I own one. It's worth it. It sounds great. You'll need at least 16 outputs on your audio interface, preferably 18 the way I use it. The extra 2 outputs are for your monitoring setup. The 8816 has outs for speakers BUT you really want to hear the return back to your computer and software monitor that. That way you really hear what you're getting and not the pre A/D sound and can put on buss plugins if you want.

The extra 2 outputs are for your monitoring setup. - So do you use the alt speaker function on the 8816? why more monitoring setup?

The 8816 has outs for speakers BUT you really want to hear the return back to your computer and software monitor that. - Are using the speaker outputs for return to A/D and DAW?

Dsubs are expensive, converter channels are expensive, but summing is one of the few things you can do that takes NO subjective skill and not much time to get a better sound. People might argue that, whatever. You have it, might as well try. You can still get a feel for it with 8 outs if thats all you got.
Dsubs are expensive - Do you have the ADS option card on the 8816? How do you connect you converter to it? XLR, optical? Does the card enable getting the full 16 channel i/o with an AES connected?

You can still get a feel for it with 8 outs if thats all you got. - Right now i cant get anything as the 25pin mogami connector i got with the unit does not go into XLR.

Thanks for the kind words,
Working on it!
Old 6th December 2020
  #251
Lives for gear
 
Agzilla's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I use a Phoenix Nicerizer for analogue summing. Couldn’t live without it.. but it’ll be living with a Little Red Bustard from now on..

Haven’t tried the Red Bustard yet...

Summing otb makes a lot of difference to my ears here..

Etto

OneLove.

Zz.
Old 21st February 2021 | Show parent
  #252
Here for the gear
 
Another test with the 8816

Here is an A/B test with my 8816 too.
Took the latest tune I am working on, maybe not the best casus since I've only used room and oh mics for the kit and was aiming for lots of smear in the recording stage already. But still, for myself a valid scenario

recorded at 96khz, using 2 RME firefaces, bounced as mp3 from Ableton.

the first is the in the box mix in Ableton live, via soundcard out and straight back into itself via patchbay.
the second is all channels routed via RMEs and summed in 8816, with just below 0db output gain on the Neve meter.
the thirds is the same but with the Neve output gain between 0-10db plus on the meter.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/7owqeyxmc5...20mix.mp3?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xibykhoor6...20mix.mp3?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3rxacg21y8...0loud.mp3?dl=0
Old 21st February 2021 | Show parent
  #253
Here for the gear
 
Another test

Here is another test with some more transient rich drums.
Same idea but added the inthebox into 1073 option

in the box only
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ugszo62sd...x%202.mp3?dl=0

in the box to Aml ez1073 pre and back
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qjltpmto6d...z1073.mp3?dl=0

Channels routed to 8816, vu meter just under 0db
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mt9pqfhauo...x%202.mp3?dl=0

channels routed to 8816, vu meter just under +10db
https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7kjnf6cu8...0loud.mp3?dl=0

You'll have to forgive me the last two seem to have higher bass volume. I couldn't figure out why honestly. Being bored with investigating hardware issues today, I just increased the itb bass volume by hear a bit. Consider it while evaluating though.
Old 21st February 2021 | Show parent
  #254
Here for the gear
 
So the score for now

So to round off my story. Channel 14 of the Neve quit on me, after having the unit second hand for 4 months. The channel has continuous crackling and white noise. I thought it'd be time to evaluate properly and decide if the 8816 is worth keeping.

My thinking after this testing is my music style may not have crucial benefit from Neve summing. It's not that rich in transients and stereo imaging and the source material should have tons of analog character at tracking already.
Probably quite different to when recording clean/ more dry/ articulate/ dense music and needing to glue it with rich analog flavour.

Nevertheless, I do hear the 8816 rounding off transients and smoothening the frequencies across the spectrum very nicely.
I dont hear this with running the itb mix through the Ez1073 which sounds to me a bit more harsh, less glued and less smooth, than the 8816.
So even if the relative benefit for my case is small, I don't see an alternative way to get this capability.

Back to the essence I guess. Is the benefit large enough or could I allocate 3k in a better way. Will decide on that some other day.
Old 29th March 2021
  #255
Here for the gear
Gonna go with B being the 8816! Did you ever reveal which is which during this thread?
Old 13th April 2021 | Show parent
  #256
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ulysses's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grwon ➡️
So to round off my story. Channel 14 of the Neve quit on me, after having the unit second hand for 4 months. The channel has continuous crackling and white noise. I thought it'd be time to evaluate properly and decide if the 8816 is worth keeping.

My thinking after this testing is my music style may not have crucial benefit from Neve summing. It's not that rich in transients and stereo imaging and the source material should have tons of analog character at tracking already.
Probably quite different to when recording clean/ more dry/ articulate/ dense music and needing to glue it with rich analog flavour.

Nevertheless, I do hear the 8816 rounding off transients and smoothening the frequencies across the spectrum very nicely.
I dont hear this with running the itb mix through the Ez1073 which sounds to me a bit more harsh, less glued and less smooth, than the 8816.
So even if the relative benefit for my case is small, I don't see an alternative way to get this capability.

Back to the essence I guess. Is the benefit large enough or could I allocate 3k in a better way. Will decide on that some other day.
I have a friend with an 8816, and channel 14 misbehaves on his also. I looked inside and saw circuitry that does not remotely resemble the circuits that made the Neve name famous. There are a pair of St. Ives input transformers, presumably used as output transformers, and that's the extent of the similarity.

It sounds like you caught an inkling of what analog summing can do, and heard firsthand that simply putting your ITB mix through a pair of preamps doesn't do the same thing. At some point you owe it to yourself to try a summing device that works well. If you want it to also impart a classic Neve sound, you could use a passive summing device with a pair of classic Neve preamps. I happen to make and sell the most popular passive summing device, and I'm not just shilling when I say it works the way it's supposed to, with pristine audio path and reliable construction, and it doesn't cost very much. In fact, for the price of the 8816 you could buy a Folcrom, a pair of Neve 1073LB-500 modules, an enclosure to put them in, the cabling to connect it all, and a really nice dinner.
Old 23rd August 2021 | Show parent
  #257
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Hi
For what it is worth, those two St Ives transformers in the 8816 are on the 'summing bus' and although I can't remember which model they are, likely 6 or 10dB step up wired to 'mimic' the way the old desks used to be run. This is a bit of a guess as that is how Audix used them in the late '70's early '80's to recover some of the loss of the passive summing to give a bus impedance of around 600 Ohms which with the ratio boost matched the preferred impedance for the following transistor gain make up amp. they are certainly not output transformers. The fact that all the rest is surface mount components and dense layout also take it well away from 'vintage Neve'.
Matt S
Old 23rd February 2022 | Show parent
  #258
Gear Nut
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Exactly!
Attached Thumbnails
Neve 8816: The Real Test-1.neve-8816-.jpg   Neve 8816: The Real Test-2.neve-8816.jpg   Neve 8816: The Real Test-3.neve-8816.jpg  
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