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Guess the plugins (Max Martin)
Old 16th September 2021 | Show parent
  #31
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterPetz ➡️
And thanks again! Thats an awesome spot to start. Now I only wonder what setting they use on the way in with the 1176.
I don't know their 1176 tracking settings. Probably fairly subtle and won't make much difference overall.

I heard from a Rami Yacoub interview (he's always worked closely with max) that they use 1176 for tracking but sometimes the tube tech CL1B instead. Kuk Harrell (greatest vocal producer everrrr) uses the CL1B and his settings are on mix with the masters. I'll try and find them if I can....
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #32
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nate12 ➡️
Autotune, Two CLA-76s, Metric Halo Channelstrip for EQ, Waves DeEsser, Echoboy and Valhalla Vintage Verb
Were Echoboy and Valhalla Vintage Verb inserts after the rest of the chain, or were they on send?

Also if you don’t mind sharing, have you come across with their synth channels by any chance? I have seen and heard Prophet and probs Juno on many of their recent productions. Would be curious to know wether they use plugin effects or not (e.g. delays/reverbs).
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #33
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontfeedmycats ➡️
Were Echoboy and Valhalla Vintage Verb inserts after the rest of the chain, or were they on send?

Also if you don’t mind sharing, have you come across with their synth channels by any chance? I have seen and heard Prophet and probs Juno on many of their recent productions. Would be curious to know wether they use plugin effects or not (e.g. delays/reverbs).
On sends with additional EQ and compression.

The synths are recorded note by note or chord by chord. Reverb is often bounced down so you have ultimate control over the tails with fades etc etc. That way you don't get overlap between the tail of each chord into the next.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #34
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nate12 ➡️
On sends with additional EQ and compression.

The synths are recorded note by note or chord by chord. Reverb is often bounced down so you have ultimate control over the tails with fades etc etc. That way you don't get overlap between the tail of each chord into the next.
Thanks, so I assume that means that it is all audio - so the myth is true that they don't use midi at all, everything is recorded/printed.

Do they side-chain with compressor (to kick or ghost kick?) or LFO/Envelope shapers.

Sorry for being cheeky but I am dying to know.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #35
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontfeedmycats ➡️
Thanks, so I assume that means that it is all audio - so the myth is true that they don't use midi at all, everything is recorded/printed.

Do they side-chain with compressor (to kick or ghost kick?) or LFO/Envelope shapers.

Sorry for being cheeky but I am dying to know.
It's a really cool unconventional approach yeah. The ascap 2011 video with dr Luke talks a but about it in more detail.

As for sidechain compression, there was a pink song shellback went track by track for and it was a kick key. That was a while ago though, so they may be using LFO tool etc nowadays.
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #36
Gear Maniac
 
Thank you nate for sharing all the knowledge here!

Are there any other significant things you found out?
I am really interested in how they come up with Melodie’s for example..

Cheers
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #37
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterPetz ➡️
Thank you nate for sharing all the knowledge here!

Are there any other significant things you found out?
I am really interested in how they come up with Melodie’s for example..

Cheers
Sure thing!

As for melodies, as I'm sure you know they write melody first rather than lyrics.

This is a really cool (and very common amongst the a-list pop/rock producer)..

The lyrics then form around the sound and shape of the scat rough melody vocal (which would literally be humming or singing nonsense). Writing lyrics second you also may find more unique sounding words and structure that would not have come if you wrote lyrics first, like a poem etc etc

As for the melodies themselves, contrast is very important. Like, if you have a busy rhythmic (melodically rhythmic, not necessarily instrumentation wise) then the pre melody should be more open, long held notes (and vice-versa).

Also, the way they achieve repetition is cool (some people call it melodic math). You may repeat a vocal phrase 3 times in a row, but on the 3rd repeat something changes (the rhythm, the notes or the lyric basically). This keeps it interesting whilst remaining understandable.

The last big point about their songwriting is how important the rhythm of their melodies are. Notice how many (infact most) of melodies have very few different notes in each section. Focussing on the rhythm of those notes will make it easier to come up with original (and catchy) sounding melodies.

I think you learn the most just by listening to their songs. You'll notice how common the patterns I mentioned are.

If you have any more specific questions about any of those points lemme know!!
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #38
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nate12 ➡️
Sure thing!

As for melodies, as I'm sure you know they write melody first rather than lyrics.

This is a really cool (and very common amongst the a-list pop/rock producer)..

The lyrics then form around the sound and shape of the scat rough melody vocal (which would literally be humming or singing nonsense). Writing lyrics second you also may find more unique sounding words and structure that would not have come if you wrote lyrics first, like a poem etc etc

As for the melodies themselves, contrast is very important. Like, if you have a busy rhythmic (melodically rhythmic, not necessarily instrumentation wise) then the pre melody should be more open, long held notes (and vice-versa).

Also, the way they achieve repetition is cool (some people call it melodic math). You may repeat a vocal phrase 3 times in a row, but on the 3rd repeat something changes (the rhythm, the notes or the lyric basically). This keeps it interesting whilst remaining understandable.

The last big point about their songwriting is how important the rhythm of their melodies are. Notice how many (infact most) of melodies have very few different notes in each section. Focussing on the rhythm of those notes will make it easier to come up with original (and catchy) sounding melodies.

I think you learn the most just by listening to their songs. You'll notice how common the patterns I mentioned are.

If you have any more specific questions about any of those points lemme know!!
Oh and to add to that..

As for coming up with these melodies they just loop a track or chord progression and improvise. Literally hum the first nonsense that comes out. They record melodies they come up with an SM7B mic, in the control room handheld (literally every Max producer has the same setup it's awesome haha). Then they edit them down and start applying some of those tricks I was talking about.

When I'm starting melodies I'll literally record them into the voice memos app on my phone and come back to them at a later date.
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #39
Gear Head
 
Hi @ nate12

This is really appreciated. I have a couple more. So you mention notes (in relation to melody writing) but they record their synths into audio, so they don't program midi, or do they? So what I am trying to say is that they play the notes live and record it, rather than programming it in the DAW?

Also:

1) How do they program their drums? Do they just place audio samples Pro Tools?

2) How do they sidechain, compressor volume shapers? If compressor, do they use the actual kick as KEY or do they use a separate signal?

Many thanks!
Old 15 hours ago | Show parent
  #40
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontfeedmycats ➡️
Hi @ nate12

This is really appreciated. I have a couple more. So you mention notes (in relation to melody writing) but they record their synths into audio, so they don't program midi, or do they? So what I am trying to say is that they play the notes live and record it, rather than programming it in the DAW?

Also:

1) How do they program their drums? Do they just place audio samples Pro Tools?

2) How do they sidechain, compressor volume shapers? If compressor, do they use the actual kick as KEY or do they use a separate signal?

Many thanks!
Yes, for drums the samples go directly to the grid in pro tools. Using fades to control the decay and tail of each sound is also very common for them. There are often crazy numbers of drum layers.

As for synths etc, I'm sure they use midi sometimes but it will end up in the audio format. I've heard Charlie Puth and benny blanco also speak on this. They record each note/chord seperately then chop and line them up so it is much cleaner and the tails can be controlled (often using fades like with the drums).

I'm not 100% sure about how they sidechain. It could be either, really. I saw a pink session from max and shellback once that had a key kick (seperate track, not the main kick so there are more options, with the output set to none so you can't hear it).

I think the most common thread throughout their productions is how crazy unique they are. Whilst working in audio (or midi converted to the Audio format) you can process the sounds then bounce down for further chopping and manipulation. SO much character in that method. Obviously audiosuite in PT is helpful for producing like this, too.

Do you have any stems for their songs?
Old 13 hours ago | Show parent
  #41
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nate12 ➡️
Sure thing!

As for melodies, as I'm sure you know they write melody first rather than lyrics.

This is a really cool (and very common amongst the a-list pop/rock producer)..

The lyrics then form around the sound and shape of the scat rough melody vocal (which would literally be humming or singing nonsense). Writing lyrics second you also may find more unique sounding words and structure that would not have come if you wrote lyrics first, like a poem etc etc

As for the melodies themselves, contrast is very important. Like, if you have a busy rhythmic (melodically rhythmic, not necessarily instrumentation wise) then the pre melody should be more open, long held notes (and vice-versa).

Also, the way they achieve repetition is cool (some people call it melodic math). You may repeat a vocal phrase 3 times in a row, but on the 3rd repeat something changes (the rhythm, the notes or the lyric basically). This keeps it interesting whilst remaining understandable.

The last big point about their songwriting is how important the rhythm of their melodies are. Notice how many (infact most) of melodies have very few different notes in each section. Focussing on the rhythm of those notes will make it easier to come up with original (and catchy) sounding melodies.

I think you learn the most just by listening to their songs. You'll notice how common the patterns I mentioned are.

If you have any more specific questions about any of those points lemme know!!
So they basically start with the chords and then add a vocal melody? I thought they start with the melody but having chords first is probably easier.

Thanks again!
I am trying to write a catchy chorus and it doesn’t work out so far.. so anything you can share about this is really appreciated :-)
Old 13 hours ago | Show parent
  #42
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nate12 ➡️
Yes, for drums the samples go directly to the grid in pro tools. Using fades to control the decay and tail of each sound is also very common for them. There are often crazy numbers of drum layers.

As for synths etc, I'm sure they use midi sometimes but it will end up in the audio format. I've heard Charlie Puth and benny blanco also speak on this. They record each note/chord seperately then chop and line them up so it is much cleaner and the tails can be controlled (often using fades like with the drums).

I'm not 100% sure about how they sidechain. It could be either, really. I saw a pink session from max and shellback once that had a key kick (seperate track, not the main kick so there are more options, with the output set to none so you can't hear it).

I think the most common thread throughout their productions is how crazy unique they are. Whilst working in audio (or midi converted to the Audio format) you can process the sounds then bounce down for further chopping and manipulation. SO much character in that method. Obviously audiosuite in PT is helpful for producing like this, too.

Do you have any stems for their songs?
Nah, unfortunately I have not got stems. That would be awesome.
Old 7 hours ago | Show parent
  #43
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontfeedmycats ➡️
Nah, unfortunately I have not got stems. That would be awesome.
Go to remixpacks.ru, there are a ton of max's on there. You'll be blown away lol, just like I was haha.

My favourites are Ariana into you and side to side. Mind blowing hearing the stems, crazy stuff. Also the Dr Luke stuff (Katy Perry et is phenomenal broken down), which may be even crazier honestly.
Old 6 hours ago
  #44
Lives for gear
 
Amazing thread thank you
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