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What do we do in this flooded market.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #31
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FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➡️
I dunno. I'm out here on the east coast, barely paying attention to what's going on in hip hop anymore, and I knew about the dude well before that first single blew up. Like, a couple years before. He was ALL OVER the festival circuit, and he picked up a lotta steam doing all those shows.
but you know what...i can say THIS though.

he prolly WAS killin' it with the WHITE FAN crowd.

but as far as BLACK PEOPLE? the streets? the clubs? naw. dog didn't exist.

all Macklemore REALLY did was REALIZE that he didn't need much if ANY Black VALIDATION to get to where he wanted to go...and he realized that at the right place (Seattle) at the right time (post Eminem).

EMINEM was kinda out of the picture (on hiatus or whatever / family issues / responsibilities) around the SAME TIME that Macklemore took off...right after Mac Miller and after Asher Roth and maybe one or two others were only lightweight bubbling.

he just saw an opportunity and capitalized on it.
Old 16th March 2014
  #32
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FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
but at the end of the day, IN MY HONEST OPINION, you can't say the word MACKLEMORE without ACKNOWLEDGING the RACE CARD...(if you're being REAL, that is)
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #33
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bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FyLe ForMatz ➡️
but you know what...i can say THIS though.

he prolly WAS killin' it with the WHITE FAN crowd.
No doubt about that.

Quote:
but as far as BLACK PEOPLE? the streets? the clubs? naw. dog didn't exist.


So what?

Quote:
all Macklemore REALLY did was REALIZE that he didn't need much if ANY Black VALIDATION to get to where he wanted to go…
I don't think any serious artist needs any "validation" from anyone. That's not what art is really about.

Quote:
and he realized that at the right place (Seattle) at the right time (post Eminem).
Haven't we been "post emininem" for like a decade now?

Quote:
he just saw an opportunity and capitalized on it.
That's how you achieve success in any pursuit. Good or bad, we make our own luck.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #34
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bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FyLe ForMatz ➡️
but at the end of the day, IN MY HONEST OPINION, you can't say the word MACKLEMORE without ACKNOWLEDGING the RACE CARD...(if you're being REAL, that is)
What race card is that?

And, are we talking about your definition of "race card", or everyone else's?
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #35
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FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➡️
What race card is that?

And, are we talking about your definition of "race card", or everyone else's?
we are talking about the RACE CARD of Macklemore NOT NEEDING BLACK HIP-HOP / RAP FANS in order to become a 'SUPERSTAR' in a BLACK genre of music.

that's race card ALL DAY.
Old 16th March 2014
  #36
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FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
same thing with the 4 GRAMMYS.

those 4 Grammys had NOTHING TO DO with Black input, feedback, or votes. PERIOD.

race card.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #37
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bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FyLe ForMatz ➡️
we are talking about the RACE CARD of Macklemore NOT NEEDING BLACK HIP-HOP / RAP FANS in order to become a 'SUPERSTAR' in a BLACK genre of music.

that's race card ALL DAY.
No, it's not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FyLe ForMatz ➡️
same thing with the 4 GRAMMYS.

those 4 Grammys had NOTHING TO DO with Black input, feedback, or votes. PERIOD.

race card.
You may be right about that. Probably not, though. I don't know exactly who was on the academy (to be honest, though, nor do I care), but I imagine there was probably more diversity than you're giving them credit for.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #38
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FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➡️
No, it's not.
RACE CARD or NOT...the facts are the facts.

but sure...take the EASY route and debate that ("RACE CARD") as opposed to the REAL ISSUE at hand...

which is White Hip-Hop / Rap fans and their disproportionate PRIVILEGE being the WIND that guided Macklemore to the proverbial 'top'.

but me and you play for opposite teams...so nothing beneficial will come from this exchange of ours.

i'm okay with agreeing to disagree - and just leaving it at that.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #39
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bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FyLe ForMatz ➡️
RACE CARD or NOT...the facts are the facts.

but sure...take the EASY route and debate that ("RACE CARD") as opposed to the REAL ISSUE at hand...

which is White Hip-Hop / Rap fans and their disproportionate PRIVILEGE being the WIND that guided Macklemore to the proverbial 'top'.

but me and you play for opposite teams...so nothing beneficial will come from this exchange of ours.

i'm okay with agreeing to disagree - and just leaving it at that.
I thought the issue at hand was finding success in a flooded market. The "team" that I "play for" is the one that says hard work, boots on the ground, and hitting the stage to perform are keys to that success.

Not sure what team you're on, bro.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #40
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FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➡️
Not sure what team you're on, bro.
i'm on the team that actually acknowledges racial disparities in SOCIETY and how those same disparities impact the music industry.
Old 17th March 2014
  #41
Gear Maniac
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Hip Hop is NOT synonymous with Black music. At least not anymore. At this point, Hip Hop is just another facet of pop music, and it's been that way for a while.
The African American community makes up 13% of the US' population, so in order for an artists music to be hitting the Top 40, a lot more than just the Black community have had to like it.
Be it 50 cent in 2001 or Macklemore in 2013, the overall youth (all colors and races) put them at the top.
Old 17th March 2014 | Show parent
  #42
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bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FyLe ForMatz ➡️
i'm on the team that actually acknowledges racial disparities in SOCIETY and how those same disparities impact the music industry.
I'd say you're doing a helluva lot more than "acknowledging" them, bro. Especially after checking out that blog of yours.

Anywho, nobody is denying they exist. I really don't think anybody posting here is that stupid. The thing is, that's really not the topic of this thread, which might explain why the only one trying to inject that into the discussion is you.
Old 17th March 2014 | Show parent
  #43
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FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by con_thafam ➡️
Hip Hop is NOT synonymous with Black music. At least not anymore. At this point, Hip Hop is just another facet of pop music, and it's been that way for a while.
The African American community makes up 13% of the US' population, so in order for an artists music to be hitting the Top 40, a lot more than just the Black community have had to like it.

THUS the saying, "HIP-HOP IS DEAD"
Old 17th March 2014 | Show parent
  #44
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FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➡️
that's really not the topic of this thread
that's true.

the other ****? not so much.

but like i said, it's whatever.
Old 17th March 2014 | Show parent
  #45
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FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➡️
Especially after checking out that blog of yours.
everything isn't for everybody.

if you blogged about the same types of topics as i do being the type of person that you are, i'd prolly disagree with your blog's main premises, too.
Old 17th March 2014 | Show parent
  #46
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bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FyLe ForMatz ➡️
everything isn't for everybody.

if you blogged about the same types of topics as i do being the type of person that you are, i'd prolly disagree with your blog's main premises, too.
The thing is, I'd never blog about that kinda stuff. Knowing that people think the way you do sorta makes me sad for humanity. It's somehow worse knowing it's coming from a fellow musician. I genuinely hope you're able to find peace.
Old 17th March 2014 | Show parent
  #47
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FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➡️
The thing is, I'd never blog about that kinda stuff.
right.

it's a lot easier to IGNORE racial inequity / inequality when it's not your f'n problem on a day-to-day basis.
Old 17th March 2014 | Show parent
  #48
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FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➡️
I genuinely hope you're able to find peace.
PEACE isn't synonymous with willful AVOIDANCE.

but like i said, it's all gravy...two different sides of the board game.

i would still buy you a beer.
Old 17th March 2014 | Show parent
  #49
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bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FyLe ForMatz ➡️
right.

it's a lot easier to IGNORE racial inequity / inequality when it's not your f'n problem on a day-to-day basis.
I agree completely. On the other hand, if you look at every event in your life through the prism of "everyone who isn't like me hates me for our differences", you're most certainly going to find myriad problems where they don't actually exist. I'm not sure that's any better a way to live your life.
Old 17th March 2014 | Show parent
  #50
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bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FyLe ForMatz ➡️
PEACE isn't synonymous with willful AVOIDANCE.

but like i said, it's all gravy...two different sides of the board game.

i would still buy you a beer.
I'd gladly sit down to beers with you. In fact, I'd love to discuss your positions in detail.
Old 17th March 2014 | Show parent
  #51
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FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➡️
"everyone who isn't like me hates me for our differences"
i never said that so i don't know where the quotations come from.

but sure...i'd say that Black people deal with a DEGREE of that quotation on a day-to-day basis EVERYWHERE WE GO.

over time it breaks you

OR

it just pisses you off

to each his own
Old 17th March 2014 | Show parent
  #52
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bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FyLe ForMatz ➡️
i never said that so i don't know where the quotations come from.

but sure...i'd say that Black people deal with a DEGREE of that quotation on a day-to-day basis EVERYWHERE WE GO.

over time it breaks you

OR

it just pisses you off

to each his own
Sorry. Quotations weren't meant to denote a specific quote from you, but to delineate the prism through which you seem to view the world, as per my reading of your blog.

Also, nobody deals with any degree of that quote, because there's not a single person on the planet that everyone hates.
Old 17th March 2014 | Show parent
  #53
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FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➡️
there's not a single person on the planet that everyone hates.
right.

but either way, if you wanna make MONEY, seek / recruit artists like Macklemore, Miley Cyrus, Justin Timberlake, and Justin Beiber...

White artists that have an 'edge', but are still likable / relatable / fashionable.

...Black music / artists are just niches in their own genres now.

so even if the market is flooded, just find your in demand 'standouts' and build your dynasty with them.

simple.
Old 17th March 2014 | Show parent
  #54
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bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FyLe ForMatz ➡️
...Black music / artists are just niches in their own genres now.
Today's Billboard chart would beg to differ.
Old 17th March 2014 | Show parent
  #55
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by FyLe ForMatz ➡️
right.

but either way, if you wanna make MONEY, seek / recruit artists like Macklemore, Miley Cyrus, Justin Timberlake, and Justin Beiber...

White artists that have an 'edge', but are still likable / relatable / fashionable.

...Black music / artists are just niches in their own genres now.

so even if the market is flooded, just find your in demand 'standouts' and build your dynasty with them.

simple.
i personally know alot more successful black musicians than white... not to knock u bruh but **** the race card works both ways, play the game for what its worth... u can either make excuses and let them hold u back, or u can go hard... keep God first man thats the wildcard that helps you overcome all the BS in the way to make things happen for you that you could have never made happen yourself...

its not you who gets you famous anyway... honestly... you can't make people like you no matter how many shows you do or how much work you put in, even if someone puts you in the game whos already famous... no musician can truly control their success why do you think people make mega ultra hits and then 8 years in a row cant make a hit to save their life? u gotta just do u and not give a **** is what i say if people like u great, if not then dont worry about it and just keep movin, God works miracles thats why they always thank God when they get they awards...

btw about macklemore... he may not get love in seattle... not a lot of rappers get love in their hometown because thats where your biggest haters are sadly... honestly though, to me he sucks i couldn't even get through 1 minute of any of his popular songs... just not feelin his **** at all i know a lot of hipsters i hate that style... but whatever i just ignore him i dont let what everybodys jumpin up and down for bother me if i can... i like what i like and i let that influence me and what i dont like i try to ignore... so i pretty much ignore him and a lot of other rappers i dont like...
Old 17th March 2014
  #56
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2toxic's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeatMan.net ➡️
STEP 3. Forget the record labels
Record labels are like old dinosaur bones, dead, old as f**k and all dried out. But don't get it confused they are still as vicious as they come. With their fancy lawyers and years of experience mastering manipulation, they will eat you alive (and your just an appetizer).
Don't go to the sharks looking for a meal!
There are numerous niche labels still doing the right things and promoting artists with their own unique aesthetic. Yeah they are not making stupid big label bucks and their artists don't have 5million likes on FB but they have a few 10s of thousands and the few fans they have are not only very loyal to their artists but to the whole label's repertoire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto
And on a personal note, if you aren't chomping at the bit to hit the stage and perform your music, you have no business calling yourself an artist.
You have to know how to DJ to be considered a good electronic music artist? ambient/experimental/abstract hiphop producers/artists? ...oh well, you did say it was your opinion. fair enough...
Old 17th March 2014 | Show parent
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2toxic ➡️
You have to know how to DJ to be considered a good electronic music artist? ambient/experimental/abstract hiphop producers/artists? ...oh well, you did say it was your opinion. fair enough...
I draw a distinction between the majority of what you call "electronic music artists" and what I call "musicians". And I hold in particularly high regard the word "artist".

Most electronic music artists aren't musicians. The art of being a musician is performance. If you consider yourself an electronic music artist, but you don't perform anything -- instead programming parts into a sequencer for a computer to play back -- I wouldn't call you a musician. I'd call you a songwriter, or a beatmaker, or maybe a producer. There's still artistry in those things, it's just not the art of musicianship.

YMMV.
Old 17th March 2014 | Show parent
  #58
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2toxic's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➡️
There's still artistry in those things, it's just not the art of musicianship.

YMMV.
This is the delineation I was hoping for ... you and I are in full agreement in this regard.
Old 17th March 2014 | Show parent
  #59
Gear Maniac
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by FyLe ForMatz ➡️
Quote:
Originally Posted by con_thafam ➡️
Hip Hop is NOT synonymous with Black music. At least not anymore. At this point, Hip Hop is just another facet of pop music, and it's been that way for a while.
The African American community makes up 13% of the US' population, so in order for an artists music to be hitting the Top 40, a lot more than just the Black community have had to like it.
Be it 50 cent in 2001 or Macklemore in 2013, the overall youth (all colors and races) put them at the top.
THUS the saying, "HIP-HOP IS DEAD"
Wow! So you think Hip Hop is dead because it is not solely ran by black people? That has got to be one of the most racist things I have read in a long time.
You don't seem to get that ever since the late 80s, Hip Hop was only in the charts because the culture as a whole (13% black people, 87% everybody else) embraced it. If only black people were buying it, it would still be some underground art form. Not just in 2014, but from the very beginning.
Old 17th March 2014
  #60
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
In the business of arts and entertainment, either you are a sponsored or commissioned artist or you're on your own as a starving artist.

Above everything else, you really do have to want it bad enough and be dedicated enough and sacrificial enough to develop a professional level of skill.

As a solo artist or group, then you have to work towards developing your small business.

You will not make much as you develop your repertoire and your performance
details in order to build a strong following.

Get involved locally, contribute to local charity & school music functions.
Play university towns. Hit the open mics. Play during parks and rec functions,
play clubs, but get your name out there.

Once you have a following, then between doors receipts and merchandizing,
you might actually eek out a survivable living, as long as the act holds together.

The entertainment industry requires an unusually difficult level of financial & personal sacrifice when compared to most other small upstart business ventures.

It also requires a very strong bond between principal members, because you are so dependent upon each other to keep things going.
People grow older, take on more and more responsibility in personal relationships, priorities change and a musician's life and variable income makes it very difficult to survive.
You may have years invested in developing an act and a following
and it can all fall apart in an instant.

You have to want it too much. Dust yourself off, pick yourself back up and try all over again.
Many people I know were dedicated and professional and still the business of the music business
poisoned them to the point of sheer disgust with the business of the music business.



Less that 1% of all registered releases in a year will sell more than 10,000
copies and that's from over 100,000++ releases per year.

You have to take the bull by the horns and make yourself known or disappear
into obscurity as just another starving artist.

Maybe a few hundred years from now, a few relics from these times will be accepted as fine art and make those who control the rights to your work a fortune.
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