What happened to VCOs being 'better' than DCOs?

Surely this synth is more of a a competitor for the DSI Prophet '08—and it's going to be interesting to see a comparison—and not the VCO-based synths? I think there is a reason that a Prophet 5/OBX costs more used than a Juno and that's not just the initial retail cost. A Juno is great for some kinds of music—but it can't replace a Prophet 5 anymore than a Prophet can replace a Juno.

Anyhow, it's all moot to me—4 octaves? Nein Danke!

Stephen

you missed my point entirely

If the DM-12 was an exact clone then you might have been right, but as it stands I doubt that the DM-12 will affect vintage Juno prices by much.

If the product is good, people will buy it. If the product is no good, they won't. There's nothing wrong with making something like this available to people who couldn't otherwise afford it (brand new).

There is a market for all price points, and there always will be. People seem to have money to burn. I don't think you'll have to worry about other manufacturers, as long as they keep up with producing good product.

About the price : Remember this is not official price or street price.

About the competitors: Roland will make a new upgraded Analog/digital a la Juno 8. Korg Maybe also make an ARP2600 a la Korg.

About the ''clean''Junos on EBAY: This will break down the madness to see instruments like Juno 6 for 800US and ''clean'' Junos 60 for 1500-2000 US. Enough is enough.

A good price. I might snag a desktop version if I can find somewhere to put it a year or two down the line, unless Roland release their fabled System 8 that is, with full J8/4/J106 bells and whistles. Then things might get confusing again....

Your DX7 analogy is flawed, back then, if you wanted professional keyboard sounds you had to buy a professional keyboard and pay a small fortune, not so anymore.

Today anyone can have cheap and professional keyboard sounds with a laptop and some VSTs. The desire for real analog synths these days is a kind of a luxury and with the DM-12 it means more people can afford that luxury. It's an expansion and growth of the analog synth market and not one that just shifts the same amount of money from one hand to the other.

In fact, don't be surprised if Oberheim/DSI/Moog eventually sees growth as well since more people gets caught with the analog synth bug. It won't happen straight away, but is the wave that comes after the DM-12 wave. We know exactly what gearslutz are like, 12 months from now the conversation will be something like... "The DM-12 is a good bread and butter synth, but the latest Moog/OB/DSI/Roland/Korg/Yamaha is sooooo amazing".

Sooooo... You dont buy this if they dont give a thumbs up?
Who's the man who decides what music you listen/like? Or what car you drive?

Well Sep 9th is the date for that apparently.

Uli, I really like the sound of my Behringer Vintage Time Machine.
Please make a bunch of these synthesizers available in Canada too.
Thanks for the work on this.
I think I'd like to have one.

Will the vintage Juno prices drop?
Did the Arp and MS20 originals drop in price after Korg released the mini versions?

Then go make music with something else, buddy. Plenty of instruments to choose in sub $100 range.

The big companies won't go out of business. But it's a good indication that people will begin to see more features and creative risks (a good thing..). Bread and butter 12 voice analog poly under a grand. With some interesting features + FX too. Game changer. Hopefully we're going to see companies using more imagination now with hardware features and more hybrid options and sequencing etc, as opposed to the 90% heritage/nostalgia that seems to have shaped/sold most of the £1000+ analog synths of the last 10 years (Elektron Analog four an exception, there are probably others too). More imagination/forward thinking in your average ipad app than has gone in to the majority of expensive analog polys in the last 10 years. Always the same feature set with slight variations/ommisions. Hopefully this kicks off a creative period that brings some very deep hardware.

Personally, I started with an analog Mackie and Peavey, migrated to an analog Behringer, and jumped to the X32, and I love it. My decision now is whether to trade my 2 analog snakes for 2 S16, or 1 S32?

I think vintage Juno prices are protected by the chorus they have.... But who knows what sort of chorus the DM12 will have.. Behringer did make some diamond-in-the-rough pedals that are supposedly identical to the Juno Chorus

MS20 yes, the ARP Odyssey maybe too.
I hope that the Midas M\synth can beat the Juno both in price, specs and sound.
The last is the most important o me , thesound, and the musicality.
The Juno has this musicality and the sound.
Will the Midas synth have also this sweet spot ? from what i heard in the you tube i start to like the sound, but i have to test it..
As many others , my room has no space anymore for analogs and keyboards.

That why i have to move en VI's .... or sell all my analogs and use only the logic for everything. Keep only the Juno 6......

Once you've seen enough of his reviews, you start to pick up on the subtlety when he thinks something isn't very good.

But over the last couple years, I don't think he's bothered to review anything he didn't like.

Pete

That's an excellent price. Emailed my Sweetwater dude.

Pete

The amount of bullsh1t in this thread is shocking. I was gonna quote a load of posts but not gonna bother haha, too many.

Anyway great price, still a bit out this working family man's league though...

Hopefully it'll kickstart, with the ML, a revolution of affordable synths.

I am really trying not to be an ass here, but nobody here considering Q.C, O.S. stability, component quality, reliability, product support, warranty...

I mean, this is the first Behringer synth. If it's so easy to just double oscillators count and polyphony, cut the price in half (and I don't believe this thing cost more than 300$ when it comes out of the factory, I happen to know I worked for a distributor). Are all of those guys at Korg, Roland, Moog, morons? I really don't think so. What ever happened to that Behringer audio interface with combo Firewire/USB, tons of inputs and outputs for 200$.

And no, it's not this one: https://www.music-group.com/Categori...C1820/p/P0B2J#

Don't know about the ARP but the MS-20 had gone for up to 3000 euro on ebay prior to the reissue. I know because it had crossed my mind to sell mine at the time. I didn't thought. Now they go for about 1000.

>30k units buys quite healthy economies of scale.

You're taking my words out of context and missing my point at the same time.
I wasn't complaining, just offering a different perspective to the poster.

Some have made an analogy to the DX7 and how it pretty much blew the synth maker market apart in 1983. I'd argue that this is not the same animal at all, having lived through the 80's shakeup. Some similarities do exist, but there are factors today that did not exist in 1983 - Today we have a wider variety of synthesis methods (for example, neither S+S nor Wavetable existed in 1983), and a wider variety of price-points available (1983 the average synth price was around $4000 USD (almost $10K in today's dollars.) In fact, I'd also argue the Juno 6/60/106 was probably more disruptive price-wise on release than anything today. The DX7 dominated not on price (tho it was priced well below the analog battleships of the day), but on newness - it was the new hotness. I don't think the DM-12 can capture that today, it being more analog fad driven than innovative feature-wise. It will be a solid keyboard that does more and goes further on less, a hallmark of music group's strategy.

If M-G were using the standard pricing model, I doubt they could have brought in it under $1K. On the standard model, they would have to be manufacturing them for $330/pc, which doesn't seem likely. On the cost-plus model, I'd have to guess that manufacturing costs are more on the order of $500/pc, at least on startup. This means they could build in a $200 margin/pc, and achieve the $1K MSRP with a $300 dealer markup. (Guitar center may be getting a lower margin if they anticipate volume sales, but standard markup is usually about a third again of wholesale.)

Assuming a $200 margin for M-G, and a 50,000 pc initial run, M-G might net $10M, which isn't something to sneeze at.

FX are all DSP

Don't know about that one, but I know about this one: X32

They've shown they can do it with mixers. Why shouldn't they be able to do it with synths?

Sound set update AND all the top quotes from team DeepMind 12 :




















ImpPlus's posts in this thread:

https://gearspace.com/board/electron....html?u=369438


Uli Behringer's posts in this thread:

https://gearspace.com/board/electron....html?u=129700


At 999.99 US Dollars MAP, this will have a deep impact on the ability of musicians to be able to afford real Analog and will encourage more bands to use Analog as part of their sound and make live use more practical. I can see more people dumping in the box and there is far less need to be Virtual when the real thing does not just sound better but is cheaper in many cases...

I also hope the competition review their pricing and technology direction. Uli and team have shown what is possible...

I just love the sound of this synth, so it is the icing on the cake...

LOL... this kind of post had to happen. and 6 "thumbs up" too. Gearslutz.
Yeah, we had it so good, with all those ridiculously overpriced synths. I'm sad that less people are gonna buy Dave Smith's 300%+ profit margin (at least) products.

I did own some crappy Behringer products (somewhat crappy) in the past, but I'm sure they will do this right, it's a personal thing for the boss and the whole backlash would be disastrous if people start complaining here. It's a product for the frontpage, the actual risk will be low.
It's not they're incompetent, if they really want to do it right, they will.

And they were working a few years with top engineers on this, enough time to iron things out, not exactly like rushing to market with this synth. The guy from Vile Electrodes is reporting stability of OS in his preproduction device, if I'm not mistaken. You could PM him. It seems Behringer is in the process of improving their general quality, they want to shed this image of cheap but a little wonky.

eagerly waiting for a sonicstate review