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Behringer DeepMind 12
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4951
Lives for gear
 
Stephen Bennett's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGEK8D ➡️
$1000????


Just sayin. You wanna undercut guitar pedals, mixers, monitors, whatever...fine. Don't mess with my synthesizer market though. Now, has the big B put any other manufacturers out of business, I don't know, but our list of manufacturers is awfully small. Even DSI and Moog, giants in the industry today, are surprisingly small operations.

.
What happened to VCOs being 'better' than DCOs?

Surely this synth is more of a a competitor for the DSI Prophet '08—and it's going to be interesting to see a comparison—and not the VCO-based synths? I think there is a reason that a Prophet 5/OBX costs more used than a Juno and that's not just the initial retail cost. A Juno is great for some kinds of music—but it can't replace a Prophet 5 anymore than a Prophet can replace a Juno.

Anyhow, it's all moot to me—4 octaves? Nein Danke!

Stephen
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4952
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by energizer bunny ➡️
You can make great music with a copy of Ableton lite, Sylenth and a microphone.
you missed my point entirely
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4953
Lives for gear
 
tux99's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlson ➡️
The market is about to be flooded with Junos. Sell your ju-60 for four figures while you still can...
If the DM-12 was an exact clone then you might have been right, but as it stands I doubt that the DM-12 will affect vintage Juno prices by much.
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4954
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGEK8D ➡️
$1000????

No. I'm not supporting this, for no other reason that it puts DX7 pressure on DSI, Modal, Studio Electronics, and any other potential analog poly manufacturers. It challenges them to lower their standars, no thanks. It challenges them to decrease their profits and potentially go out of business. Seriously, this costs the same as a 100% digital Blofeld keys, and a third of a Virus TI2 KB.

I support competition. I do not support massive companies mass producing things and charging a quarter of the price, because their is little to no risk involved for them if this product flops.

Just sayin. You wanna undercut guitar pedals, mixers, monitors, whatever...fine. Don't mess with my synthesizer market though. Now, has the big B put any other manufacturers out of business, I don't know, but our list of manufacturers is awfully small. Even DSI and Moog, giants in the industry today, are surprisingly small operations.

I'm sure this will piss off some people, but we have a good thing going here the last few years. I don't want it messed up.
If the product is good, people will buy it. If the product is no good, they won't. There's nothing wrong with making something like this available to people who couldn't otherwise afford it (brand new).

There is a market for all price points, and there always will be. People seem to have money to burn. I don't think you'll have to worry about other manufacturers, as long as they keep up with producing good product.
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4955
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
About the price : Remember this is not official price or street price.

About the competitors: Roland will make a new upgraded Analog/digital a la Juno 8. Korg Maybe also make an ARP2600 a la Korg.

About the ''clean''Junos on EBAY: This will break down the madness to see instruments like Juno 6 for 800US and ''clean'' Junos 60 for 1500-2000 US. Enough is enough.
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4956
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
A good price. I might snag a desktop version if I can find somewhere to put it a year or two down the line, unless Roland release their fabled System 8 that is, with full J8/4/J106 bells and whistles. Then things might get confusing again....
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4957
Lives for gear
 
analogsynth's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGEK8D ➡️
$1000????

No. I'm not supporting this, for no other reason that it puts DX7 pressure on DSI, Modal, Studio Electronics, and any other potential analog poly manufacturers. It challenges them to lower their standars, no thanks. It challenges them to decrease their profits and potentially go out of business. Seriously, this costs the same as a 100% digital Blofeld keys, and a third of a Virus TI2 KB.

I support competition. I do not support massive companies mass producing things and charging a quarter of the price, because their is little to no risk involved for them if this product flops.

Just sayin. You wanna undercut guitar pedals, mixers, monitors, whatever...fine. Don't mess with my synthesizer market though. Now, has the big B put any other manufacturers out of business, I don't know, but our list of manufacturers is awfully small. Even DSI and Moog, giants in the industry today, are surprisingly small operations.

I'm sure this will piss off some people, but we have a good thing going here the last few years. I don't want it messed up.
Your DX7 analogy is flawed, back then, if you wanted professional keyboard sounds you had to buy a professional keyboard and pay a small fortune, not so anymore.

Today anyone can have cheap and professional keyboard sounds with a laptop and some VSTs. The desire for real analog synths these days is a kind of a luxury and with the DM-12 it means more people can afford that luxury. It's an expansion and growth of the analog synth market and not one that just shifts the same amount of money from one hand to the other.

In fact, don't be surprised if Oberheim/DSI/Moog eventually sees growth as well since more people gets caught with the analog synth bug. It won't happen straight away, but is the wave that comes after the DM-12 wave. We know exactly what gearslutz are like, 12 months from now the conversation will be something like... "The DM-12 is a good bread and butter synth, but the latest Moog/OB/DSI/Roland/Korg/Yamaha is sooooo amazing".
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4958
Gear Maniac
 
JemenJ's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cogsy ➡️
Now, I just want a Nick Batt (or Marc Doty) seal of approval. I can't wait to hear what @ AutomaticGainsay has to say about this. Hopefully Uli puts this board in the hands of the people the synth community listens to when it comes to demos and reviews.
Sooooo... You dont buy this if they dont give a thumbs up?
Who's the man who decides what music you listen/like? Or what car you drive?
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4959
Lives for gear
 
Mushy Mushy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace Clef ➡️
A good price. I might snag a desktop version if I can find somewhere to put it a year or two down the line, unless Roland release their fabled System 8 that is, with full J8/4/J106 bells and whistles. Then things might get confusing again....
Well Sep 9th is the date for that apparently.
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4960
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Uli, I really like the sound of my Behringer Vintage Time Machine.
Please make a bunch of these synthesizers available in Canada too.
Thanks for the work on this.
I think I'd like to have one.
Old 9th August 2016
  #4961
Lives for gear
 
cake100's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Will the vintage Juno prices drop?
Did the Arp and MS20 originals drop in price after Korg released the mini versions?
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4962
Moderator
 
Don Solaris's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogaloo ➡️
But do you realize that in many parts of the world this $1000 is still quite expensive for most people?
Then go make music with something else, buddy. Plenty of instruments to choose in sub $100 range.
Old 9th August 2016
  #4963
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
The big companies won't go out of business. But it's a good indication that people will begin to see more features and creative risks (a good thing..). Bread and butter 12 voice analog poly under a grand. With some interesting features + FX too. Game changer. Hopefully we're going to see companies using more imagination now with hardware features and more hybrid options and sequencing etc, as opposed to the 90% heritage/nostalgia that seems to have shaped/sold most of the £1000+ analog synths of the last 10 years (Elektron Analog four an exception, there are probably others too). More imagination/forward thinking in your average ipad app than has gone in to the majority of expensive analog polys in the last 10 years. Always the same feature set with slight variations/ommisions. Hopefully this kicks off a creative period that brings some very deep hardware.
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4964
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
My X32

Personally, I started with an analog Mackie and Peavey, migrated to an analog Behringer, and jumped to the X32, and I love it. My decision now is whether to trade my 2 analog snakes for 2 S16, or 1 S32?
Old 9th August 2016
  #4965
Here for the gear
 
efm7's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I think vintage Juno prices are protected by the chorus they have.... But who knows what sort of chorus the DM12 will have.. Behringer did make some diamond-in-the-rough pedals that are supposedly identical to the Juno Chorus
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4966
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cake100 ➡️
Will the vintage Juno prices drop?
Did the Arp and MS20 originals drop in price after Korg released the mini versions?

MS20 yes, the ARP Odyssey maybe too.
I hope that the Midas M\synth can beat the Juno both in price, specs and sound.
The last is the most important o me , thesound, and the musicality.
The Juno has this musicality and the sound.
Will the Midas synth have also this sweet spot ? from what i heard in the you tube i start to like the sound, but i have to test it..
As many others , my room has no space anymore for analogs and keyboards.

That why i have to move en VI's .... or sell all my analogs and use only the logic for everything. Keep only the Juno 6......
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4967
Lives for gear
 
Psychlist1972's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cake100 ➡️
Has Nick Batt ever reviewed anything and told the listener it is bad or we should not buy?
I like his reviews, and value them but I think most of us know whether we'll buy it already.
Once you've seen enough of his reviews, you start to pick up on the subtlety when he thinks something isn't very good.

But over the last couple years, I don't think he's bothered to review anything he didn't like.

Pete
Old 9th August 2016
  #4968
Lives for gear
 
Psychlist1972's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
That's an excellent price. Emailed my Sweetwater dude.

Pete
Old 9th August 2016
  #4969
Lives for gear
 
GeminIAm's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
The amount of bullsh1t in this thread is shocking. I was gonna quote a load of posts but not gonna bother haha, too many.

Anyway great price, still a bit out this working family man's league though...

Hopefully it'll kickstart, with the ML, a revolution of affordable synths.
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4970
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
I am really trying not to be an ass here, but nobody here considering Q.C, O.S. stability, component quality, reliability, product support, warranty...

I mean, this is the first Behringer synth. If it's so easy to just double oscillators count and polyphony, cut the price in half (and I don't believe this thing cost more than 300$ when it comes out of the factory, I happen to know I worked for a distributor). Are all of those guys at Korg, Roland, Moog, morons? I really don't think so. What ever happened to that Behringer audio interface with combo Firewire/USB, tons of inputs and outputs for 200$.

And no, it's not this one: https://www.music-group.com/Categori...C1820/p/P0B2J#
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4971
Lives for gear
 
ioanni's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cake100 ➡️
Will the vintage Juno prices drop?
Did the Arp and MS20 originals drop in price after Korg released the mini versions?
Don't know about the ARP but the MS-20 had gone for up to 3000 euro on ebay prior to the reissue. I know because it had crossed my mind to sell mine at the time. I didn't thought. Now they go for about 1000.
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4972
Lives for gear
 
Mushy Mushy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matya ➡️
I am really trying not to be an ass here, but nobody here considering Q.C, O.S. stability, component quality, reliability, product support, warranty...

I mean, this is the first Behringer synth. If it's so easy to just double oscillators count and polyphony, cut the price in half (and I don't believe this thing cost more than 300$ when it comes out of the factory, I happen to know I worked for a distributor). Are all of those guys at Korg, Roland, Moog, morons? I really don't think so. What ever happened to that Behringer audio interface with combo Firewire/USB, tons of inputs and outputs for 200$.

And no, it's not this one: https://www.music-group.com/Categori...C1820/p/P0B2J#
>30k units buys quite healthy economies of scale.
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4973
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris ➡️
Then go make music with something else, buddy. Plenty of instruments to choose in sub $100 range.
You're taking my words out of context and missing my point at the same time.
I wasn't complaining, just offering a different perspective to the poster.
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4974
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Market not really the same as in the 80's

Some have made an analogy to the DX7 and how it pretty much blew the synth maker market apart in 1983. I'd argue that this is not the same animal at all, having lived through the 80's shakeup. Some similarities do exist, but there are factors today that did not exist in 1983 - Today we have a wider variety of synthesis methods (for example, neither S+S nor Wavetable existed in 1983), and a wider variety of price-points available (1983 the average synth price was around $4000 USD (almost $10K in today's dollars.) In fact, I'd also argue the Juno 6/60/106 was probably more disruptive price-wise on release than anything today. The DX7 dominated not on price (tho it was priced well below the analog battleships of the day), but on newness - it was the new hotness. I don't think the DM-12 can capture that today, it being more analog fad driven than innovative feature-wise. It will be a solid keyboard that does more and goes further on less, a hallmark of music group's strategy.

If M-G were using the standard pricing model, I doubt they could have brought in it under $1K. On the standard model, they would have to be manufacturing them for $330/pc, which doesn't seem likely. On the cost-plus model, I'd have to guess that manufacturing costs are more on the order of $500/pc, at least on startup. This means they could build in a $200 margin/pc, and achieve the $1K MSRP with a $300 dealer markup. (Guitar center may be getting a lower margin if they anticipate volume sales, but standard markup is usually about a third again of wholesale.)

Assuming a $200 margin for M-G, and a 50,000 pc initial run, M-G might net $10M, which isn't something to sneeze at.
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4975
Deleted 8456dd3
Guest
FX are all DSP

Quote:
Originally Posted by efm7 ➡️
I think vintage Juno prices are protected by the chorus they have.... But who knows what sort of chorus the DM12 will have.. Behringer did make some diamond-in-the-rough pedals that are supposedly identical to the Juno Chorus
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4976
Lives for gear
 
bjoerngiesler's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matya ➡️
I mean, this is the first Behringer synth. If it's so easy to just double oscillators count and polyphony, cut the price in half (and I don't believe this thing cost more than 300$ when it comes out of the factory, I happen to know I worked for a distributor). Are all of those guys at Korg, Roland, Moog, morons? I really don't think so. What ever happened to that Behringer audio interface with combo Firewire/USB, tons of inputs and outputs for 200$.
Don't know about that one, but I know about this one: X32

They've shown they can do it with mixers. Why shouldn't they be able to do it with synths?
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4977
Lives for gear
 
SonicBern's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Sound set update AND all the top quotes from team DeepMind 12 :




















ImpPlus's posts in this thread:

https://gearspace.com/board/electron....html?u=369438


Uli Behringer's posts in this thread:

https://gearspace.com/board/electron....html?u=129700


At 999.99 US Dollars MAP, this will have a deep impact on the ability of musicians to be able to afford real Analog and will encourage more bands to use Analog as part of their sound and make live use more practical. I can see more people dumping in the box and there is far less need to be Virtual when the real thing does not just sound better but is cheaper in many cases...

I also hope the competition review their pricing and technology direction. Uli and team have shown what is possible...

I just love the sound of this synth, so it is the icing on the cake...
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4978
Shy
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGEK8D ➡️
$1000????

No. I'm not supporting this, for no other reason that it puts DX7 pressure on DSI, Modal, Studio Electronics, and any other potential analog poly manufacturers. It challenges them to lower their standars, no thanks. It challenges them to decrease their profits and potentially go out of business. Seriously, this costs the same as a 100% digital Blofeld keys, and a third of a Virus TI2 KB.

I support competition. I do not support massive companies mass producing things and charging a quarter of the price, because their is little to no risk involved for them if this product flops.

Just sayin. You wanna undercut guitar pedals, mixers, monitors, whatever...fine. Don't mess with my synthesizer market though. Now, has the big B put any other manufacturers out of business, I don't know, but our list of manufacturers is awfully small. Even DSI and Moog, giants in the industry today, are surprisingly small operations.

I'm sure this will piss off some people, but we have a good thing going here the last few years. I don't want it messed up.
LOL... this kind of post had to happen. and 6 "thumbs up" too. Gearslutz.
Yeah, we had it so good, with all those ridiculously overpriced synths. I'm sad that less people are gonna buy Dave Smith's 300%+ profit margin (at least) products.
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4979
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matya ➡️
I am really trying not to be an ass here, but nobody here considering Q.C, O.S. stability, component quality, reliability, product support, warranty...

I mean, this is the first Behringer synth. If it's so easy to just double oscillators count and polyphony, cut the price in half (and I don't believe this thing cost more than 300$ when it comes out of the factory, I happen to know I worked for a distributor). Are all of those guys at Korg, Roland, Moog, morons? I really don't think so. What ever happened to that Behringer audio interface with combo Firewire/USB, tons of inputs and outputs for 200$.

And no, it's not this one: https://www.music-group.com/Categori...C1820/p/P0B2J#
I did own some crappy Behringer products (somewhat crappy) in the past, but I'm sure they will do this right, it's a personal thing for the boss and the whole backlash would be disastrous if people start complaining here. It's a product for the frontpage, the actual risk will be low.
It's not they're incompetent, if they really want to do it right, they will.

And they were working a few years with top engineers on this, enough time to iron things out, not exactly like rushing to market with this synth. The guy from Vile Electrodes is reporting stability of OS in his preproduction device, if I'm not mistaken. You could PM him. It seems Behringer is in the process of improving their general quality, they want to shed this image of cheap but a little wonky.
Old 9th August 2016 | Show parent
  #4980
Deleted b598644
Guest
eagerly waiting for a sonicstate review
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