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Free software measures MIDI latency and jitter.
Old 10th April 2020
  #361
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🎧 5 years
mio does timestamps for rtpmidi according to their info
Old 10th April 2020
  #362
Here for the gear
If anyone has made the cable required for MLA2 and wants to sell it, or knows of a commercially available one, let me know!
Old 10th April 2020
  #363
Here for the gear
Are the 5-pin DIN to 3.5mm stereo cables that eurorack folks use for MIDI with the right adapter able to be used for MLA2 tests, or is it wired differently?
Old 10th April 2020
  #364
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
I'm looking into some of these devices noted for standalone use only. I have 16 ports of outputs (1 channel per port) coming from my DAW over lightpipe to some Eurorack modules that output MIDI (an Expert Sleepers ES-3 w/ a pair of ESX-8MD MIDI output expanders). These modules output MIDI at a sample accurate timing, which is why there's only 1 MIDI channel per port. I also have an iConnectivity mio4 that is great for INPUT for various MIDI controllers (USB and DIN MIDI), but I am NOT planning to use it to OUTPUT MIDI... at all.

Right now I am solely using the ESX-8MD's to output MIDI, and only have 8 MIDI synths in my setup, but I would like to be able to use a standalone device to switch/route the MIDI ports in such a way that I could either use my DAW MIDI outputs or switch over to using a dedicated hardware sequencer that I'd like to use at some point (I'm on the Sequentix Cirklon wait list, but I might put a 1010 Music Toolbox sequencer in my Eurorack setup and use that for MIDI sequencing until I get a Cirklon, if that ever happens).

There aren't a ton of them that come up used, but I'm curious how the mio10 stacks up against the UM-880 in standalone mode as a router/switch? Is there anything else that might work better, as far as being able to route a bunch of inputs to outputs? Something BIG like a JL Cooper Synapse looks might interesting, but is also mighty rare. It might be more doable to find a mio10 rather soon, compared to the UM-800 and Synapse.
Old 10th April 2020 | Show parent
  #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markusschloesser ➡️
mio does timestamps for rtpmidi according to their info
Tried rtp midi last week with my mio4 in combination with Ableton Live 10 which should be able to send time stamped midi, but the jitter was pretty much the same as with usb.

I only used rtp midi from Pc to mio4 thougg, from that point it was distributes to all my devices through din and usb, maybe that’s the problem..?

Anyway, I get fairly tight midi, jitter is usually around 1-2 ms with some peaks of 3 or 4 ms. I can live with that for synths, but not for percussion, which is why I got an usamo, which works great!
Old 10th April 2020 | Show parent
  #366
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen ➡️
...
...I only used rtp midi from Pc to mio4 thougg, from that point it was distributes to all my devices through din and usb, maybe that’s the problem..?

Anyway, I get fairly tight midi, jitter is usually around 1-2 ms with some peaks of 3 or 4 ms. I can live with that for synths, but not for percussion, which is why I got an usamo, which works great!
What was the ethernet connecting to in your computer? USB-C? Pci?Something else?

Read some last night about ethernet and now am curious what a mioXM connected with a Cat8 cable to a Thunderbolt 3 adapter would be like.
Old 31st May 2020
  #367
Deleted b5e2891
Guest
Is the Um-one or 880 any different then my Roland A300Pro outputting in generic mode ?

How do you measure milliseconds in Logic Pro X. I can see the jitter in waveform but can't figure out how far its actually off in samples or milliseconds. Is there aa way I can highlight the section that is off and see how many samples or mili seconds it is?

Was considering a usage or ES-40 setup but that is pricy as I would have to add another spdif... think the jitter I am seeing might be my synths. They are all vintage stuff. But worst jitter I had was using a DSI tetra. Can old cables cause jitter or using the thru ports in a daisy chain? I have 4 synths on one port. I plan to test them all individually but I guess I need one of these audio to midi cables to test the system before I invest in an expensive eurorack solution. I guess usamo could be a quick test.

Will Usamo work with a cheap audio out like mini jack on my mac pro sound card? I would have to rig my line out to an aggregate device as spdif is in use with my AD/DA. Was trying to avoid aggregate devices for running low latency seem to be better without it.

I remember now jitter was why I started using soft synths. Now I am back to hardware synths and I need to finally overcome this issue.
Old 1st June 2020 | Show parent
  #368
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
You can use the MLA software to test your Combined Jitter. Just delete/mute the first 16th or 8th from the audio recording of your synths (depending on whether you to do the 16th or 8th note test respectively).

The MLA software will also show you your synth's average recording alignment/position on your DAW's grid (the MLA software calls this "Synth Round-trip Latency").

You don't need a MIDI to Audio cable to test the Combined Jitter. You only need it for separate figures for "MIDI Note-on Jitter" and the "Synth's Own Jitter".


If you still want to analyse the jitter & alignment in Logic's sample editor, set your tempo to 120 BPM and your sample rate to 48k or 96k. At 120 BPM, every 16th note occurs every 6000 samples on Logic's grid for 48k (i.e. 0, 6000, 12000, 18000...), and at 96k the 16ths occur every 12,000 samples (0, 12000, 24000, 36000...). Doing this at any other tempo or sample rate is too confusing.

You can set the Logic's sample editor to show samples from the sample editor's View menu.
Old 1st June 2020 | Show parent
  #369
Deleted b5e2891
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanRand ➡️
You can use the MLA software to test your Combined Jitter. Just delete/mute the first 16th or 8th from the audio recording of your synths (depending on whether you to do the 16th or 8th note test respectively).

The MLA software will also show you your synth's average recording alignment/position on your DAW's grid (the MLA software calls this "Synth Round-trip Latency").

You don't need a MIDI to Audio cable to test the Combined Jitter. You only need it for separate figures for "MIDI Note-on Jitter" and the "Synth's Own Jitter".


If you still want to analyse the jitter & alignment in Logic's sample editor, set your tempo to 120 BPM and your sample rate to 48k or 96k. At 120 BPM, every 16th note occurs every 6000 samples on Logic's grid for 48k (i.e. 0, 6000, 12000, 18000...), and at 96k the 16ths occur every 12,000 samples (0, 12000, 24000, 36000...). Doing this at any other tempo or sample rate is too confusing.

You can set the Logic's sample editor to show samples from the sample editor's View menu.
Thank you I just figured the samples view out after I posted and use the marque tool to highlight the gap. Would like to know my system jitter separate from the synth as the synths seem to all be sloppy. The midi timestamps are accurate in midi monitor but I can hear the jitter when my system is playing back midi tracks, and see it clearly on the audio track. I want to eliminate as much of init at the midi interface. Some notes are early some late. A synth can't be early unless the midi got there early. I can understand late. But early seems to be either my setting in logic are all wrong or the midi is just bad. Have tried a motu, roland , and scarlet interface and all had jitter.

Everyone praises RME and Roland but I am using a roland A300pro which has a complaint mode and an FPT Advanced driver Mode and they both have same jitter. Don't think its all the synths as they seem to sound very accurate when I play them live with midi. Its sequenced stuff that has that wow and flutter feeling. So I would like to get to bottom of this or make the cable. I have a ton of songs to track and this is stopping me. Ian having flashback to 20 years ago. I might just track and remove silence go back and manually quantize the audio clips visually to their midi tracks..what a pain!
Old 1st June 2020 | Show parent
  #370
Deleted b5e2891
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen ➡️
Tried rtp midi last week with my mio4 in combination with Ableton Live 10 which should be able to send time stamped midi, but the jitter was pretty much the same as with usb.

I only used rtp midi from Pc to mio4 thougg, from that point it was distributes to all my devices through din and usb, maybe that’s the problem..?

Anyway, I get fairly tight midi, jitter is usually around 1-2 ms with some peaks of 3 or 4 ms. I can live with that for synths, but not for percussion, which is why I got an usamo, which works great!
So USAMO works???? Will it work using the sound card on my mac? Ian already using the spdif for my AD/DA so Iwas hoping I could make an aggregate with the line out to usamo and the spdif out ad/da. I also just got some CVgate synths and need to convert to that. Was thinking of their ES-40 setup.Seems expensive but I not a lot of faith in anything these days to do what it claims to do. I guess I need to figure out if its my synths or system first. I guess USAMO would be a good cheap test.
Old 10th June 2020
  #371
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Is all that midi jitter perfectionism makes sense ?
By itself an instrument like AKAI S sampler has 1-2 ms average internal jitter.
ASR-10 even worse.
No matter what sequencer driving it, the jitter will be introduced inside the hardware.
So.... it didn't stopped people from making punchiest and groovy house music in 90s.
Just wondering.
Old 10th June 2020
  #372
Deleted b5e2891
Guest
I was having really bad jitter . Very easy to hear . Turns out logic loses its midi timing when using larger buffer sizes regardless of the Midi Interface. I couldn’t run my scarlet at less than 1024 samples. I switched to built in toslink digital spdif out of my Mac Pro at a buffer of 32 samples as opposed to the 1024 and my midi timing was almost sample accurate. only off by 2-3 samples. Not milliseconds .... samples. My system runs very well using the built in audio device in this manner and I am able to run the lowest latency I have experienced to date. Faster than my RME UFX which is 64.

I tried three other midi interfaces, Roland , Motu and scarlet. They all had terrible jitter. Conclusion , It’s not the interface but Logic use of the buffer and when it sends the data. The only thing that fixed this was a low buffer. So if your system can’t run at a low buffer than midi jitter might remain an issue. I just got an USAMO it will be interesting to see how it performs at the higher buffer sizes.

But for tracking, using the lowest possible buffer is ideal and will make the timing tight. Use an audio interface that will allow a really low buffer when tracking or playing live.

Last edited by Deleted b5e2891; 10th June 2020 at 03:36 PM..
Old 10th June 2020 | Show parent
  #373
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhale ➡️
Is all that midi jitter perfectionism makes sense ?
By itself an instrument like AKAI S sampler has 1-2 ms average internal jitter.
ASR-10 even worse.
No matter what sequencer driving it, the jitter will be introduced inside the hardware.
So.... it didn't stopped people from making punchiest and groovy house music in 90s.
Just wondering.
And in the 20s people were happy with Edison cylinders. Things move on. There's absolutely no need to suffer jitter in this day in age.

Things move on.
Old 3rd July 2020 | Show parent
  #374
Deleted 0ea68bb
Guest
Anyone know where to find a MIDI jitter/latency test in 2020? All the ones I have come across on old threads are on no longer functional sites.
Old 18th July 2020
  #375
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Poumtschak's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
http://www.synthtopia.com/content/20...di-sequencing/

Clickbait title, but the study is interesting, albeit missing Windows and Android devices...

https://medium.com/@apmatthews/seque...e-11663f56bc7b
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