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Ex Tempest users: What to replace my Tempest with.
Old 15th March 2014 | Show parent
  #31
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by fwet ➑️
Nah, I dont have sync issues on mpc 4ooo and didnt have them on the tempest. Somebody needs to put some sense into your head or at least some good taste. Your comparing a corny midi controller called sparkle to a mpc? pffff, blasphemy. Thats the white guys version of beat thang.lol J/K

The guy's workflow? he has analog synth's...

Anyways, all in good fun.
i second that and probably made your worst pick for timing, mpc 4000 one of the most sample accurate sequencers along with 60 and 3000. not to mention the latency you get with a controler such as the spark and firing up a computer for it to work. each to their own but get your stories straight before you give people advise on here
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #32
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slaughtrhaus's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyFM ➑️
if you say so.. maybe you have tried it out. could be so
After owning the 2 in question there's no contest IMO. PEK all the way. But like Xanax said, there's a lot going on under the hood of the Tempest, and they are still writing the code...
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #33
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GYang's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Tempest is strong keeper IMO, but I have Jomox 999, Akais and few groove boxes, so no deficit in this department.
IMO cannot be replaced easily without sacrifying its strong points.
Elektron is definitely not upgrade from Tempest, although each box has won merits.
Old 16th March 2014
  #34
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Xero's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
you could wait for that new akai analog drum machine to come out...sounds like it's gonna be pretty neat anyway.
Old 16th March 2014
  #35
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I really like the tempest for perc weirdness, but I don't know if I would keep it to use as just a melodic synth module or polysynth
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #36
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Bonkks's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I think the fact that the presets are so bad and that there have not been and good sound banks contribute to this negative attitude. I would never get rid of mine, it really is an amazing drum machine. The problem is, without a drum specific synth architecture it doesn't have a signature sound. And for those unwilling to put in the time, it is easy to make sound bad.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonkks ➑️
I think the fact that the presets are so bad and that there have not been and good sound banks contribute to this negative attitude. I would never get rid of mine, it really is an amazing drum machine. The problem is, without a drum specific synth architecture it doesn't have a signature sound. And for those unwilling to put in the time, it is easy to make sound bad.
It doesn't have one signature sound, but it definitely has a sonic signature. It's not even all that difficult to get nice drums if you read up on percussion synthesis and aren't stingy about using the digital oscillators (talking sine and noise, not drum sample, though nothing wrong with using those). I do, however, find it a bit harder to get melodic synth sounds I'm really happy with. The analog oscillator tones and the way the filter resonance sits can be a little weird.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #38
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xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by slaughtrhaus ➑️
But like Xanax said, there's a lot going on under the hood of the Tempest, and they are still writing the code...
actually that's a big part of the problem.. that the machine is still in a somewhat beta state and feels unfinished in certain areas. kind of addressing the elephant in the room although this topic has been beaten to death.. but pym's recent admission on DSi forum that he was "winding down" on OS dev by handing it down to someone else who may or may not finish the job has casted a dim future for those hoping for enhancements. still plenty of people fully satisfied with the current state, but like i've been warning others in the tempest thread: don't buy this machine expecting anything else then what's currently offered. the product is pretty much at end cycle as far as DSi is concerned.
Old 16th March 2014
  #39
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sentokan's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Maschine??
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #40
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iksrazal's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang ➑️
Tempest is strong keeper IMO, but I have Jomox 999
I'm considering a Tempest to compliment my 999, especially now that the OS issues are fading. The Tempest seems like a good performance machine but lacking somewhat in the sound department.

Whereas the 999 is the opposite ... sounds great imho but I use it as a sound module over midi since its interface never gelled with me. The 16 pads on the Tempest is what I am missing since my MPC4K died.

The other two drum machines I looked at have their own issues - the Tanzbar and Miami. The Tanzbar lacks individual outs and that's a deal breaker since I have a lot of outboard. The Miami lacks pads and I would likely treat it as another sound module.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #41
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iksrazal's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sentokan ➑️
Maschine??
Requires a computer right and therefore likely to be obsolete someday? I see a lot of pain from 90's gear requiring drivers and formats no longer viable, for example.

Especially now that PC market share is dropping like a rock, it seems risky to me, ymmv.
Old 16th March 2014
  #42
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
....i don't get it...

is it about having fun in stage from time to time, here and there...

or is it your business to get your productions on stage to perform them tight on somehow daily bases...?

if it's for the fun of it.....keep the tempest...

if it's all about a serios tour rig.....you better get along with ableton and push in a deeper way and only some rocksolid hardware to add on...

which should be something like an mpc 1000 with jjos.....which let's you change arrangements on the fly and fool around like nothing else that stable and tight no matter what....and a little analog synth to tweak and spit some dirt with some old pedal fx....


something like the micro brute....
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #43
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conanb's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by fwet ➑️
Nah, I dont have sync issues on mpc 4ooo and didnt have them on the tempest. Somebody needs to put some sense into your head or at least some good taste. Your comparing a corny midi controller called sparkle to a mpc? pffff, blasphemy. Thats the white guys version of beat thang.lol J/K

The guy's workflow? he has analog synth's...

Anyways, all in good fun.
OP already stated his tempest has sync issues. I never mentioned sync issues with the MPC. You need to get some education and learn to read before shooting your mouth off, lol.
Btw, spark has zero latency. Again, get some knowledge before passing comment.
My opinion stands, speed of workflow with Spark wipes the floor with the MPC (already told u I've had both) as it should, it's software with a controller, it's as quick as your computer, drag and drop. So much quicker it's not even funny compared to dicking about with menu buttons and jog wheels, lol.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #44
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natrixgli's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by iksrazal ➑️
The Tempest seems like a good performance machine but lacking somewhat in the sound department.
No way. I never have problems getting good sounds out of it. Just bear in mind that it's geared at producing percussion sounds, so the envelopes and LFOs will reset on each new note. This makes it not-so-good for pad and string sounds, and not so good for certain basses and leads. (no legato)

But it can and does sound brilliant. The digital oscillators are basically sample playback machines but at the end of the list of samples is a bunch of prophet VS waves and other single-cycle waveforms that are rather useful. (some are noisy, but you can use them still.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sentokan ➑️
Maschine??
Coincidentally, I've considered it. I played with one at Guitar Center and I've owned one before. Problem is I end up making full tracks on it, and it might be overkill for my purposes. I do love it to death for drums though. If it had the pad scales mode like Tempest and beat-wide roll FX I would be all over it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iksrazal ➑️
Requires a computer right and therefore likely to be obsolete someday?
I wouldn't worry too much about this. First, NI seems good about keeping their development going forward. Plus if you get a good deal on it, it's about 1/3 what a Tempest costs and can do A LOT more. (you can have 128 sounds going at once, including a mix of samples, drum synthesis, MASSIVE, etc.)

Anyway so far haven't found a good replacement for the Tempest. Closest thing seems to be 2 or more pieces of gear.

I should have asked "How to replace the tempest without buying ALL the gear", because you have to admit DSI did make a pretty amazing combination of features and sound. It's just like most grooveboxen, they are jacks of all trades and masters of none.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #45
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natrixgli's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by conanb ➑️
OP already stated his tempest has sync issues. I never mentioned sync issues with the MPC. You need to get some education and learn to read before shooting your mouth off, lol.
Btw, spark has zero latency. Again, get some knowledge before passing comment.
My opinion stands, speed of workflow with Spark wipes the floor with the MPC (already told u I've had both) as it should, it's software with a controller, it's as quick as your computer, drag and drop. So much quicker it's not even funny compared to dicking about with menu buttons and jog wheels, lol.
I have the spark and like it lots. I did NOT find creating my own kits simple, mainly because they end up so much quieter than the stock kits (which I think are too loud) so you have to battle that, which generally requires either compressing each individual instrument or compressing the master.

This is a big deal in a live setting, not so much in the studio.

The SparkLE is a great drum machine though. I like it's no-fuss interface and the fact that it has both pads and x0x style sequencing on board.

I use it as a slave to the OT's clock (via clock thru on Tempest) because when I had the SparkLE as master the clock drifted so much it would cause the delay on the OT to make pitch warbles frequently as the time changed. Sometimes it sounded cool, others not so much.

Personal opinion here: I think MPCs off the table for me. As one of the uninitiated I found the MPC workflow to be extremely unintuitive compared to Maschine, SparkLE, Ableton Push, and even the Octatrack. Pretty much everything I've ever used to me seemed easier than a MPC. (owned a MPC-5000 briefly, also spent a bunch of time trying out a MPC-1000 with JJOS2XL)
Old 16th March 2014
  #46
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xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by natrixgli ➑️
Anyway so far haven't found a good replacement for the Tempest. Closest thing seems to be 2 or more pieces of gear.

I should have asked "How to replace the tempest without buying ALL the gear", because you have to admit DSI did make a pretty amazing combination of features and sound. It's just like most grooveboxen, they are jacks of all trades and masters of none.
that's the thing though, you won't find a single synth to replace what a groovebox does, and since you've already owned the only 2 analog ones on the market (A4 & Tempest) you're either looking at multiple analog synths or going digital/ITB..

as for the MPC vs Spark debate.. they don't really compare.. MPC's are standalone and allow you to sequence external gear, they also have sampling capabilities.. as for the workflow, I take it most have never tried a 60/3000.. the most intuitive & best sounding MPCs imo
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #47
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natrixgli's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax ➑️
that's the thing though, you won't find a single synth to replace what a groovebox does, and since you've already owned the only 2 analog ones on the market (A4 & Tempest) you're either looking at multiple analog synths or going digital/ITB..
Quite true. What I really want is something that marries analog and digital sound, or approximates analog sound really well, and is multitimbral and fun to play. If the Tempest could sequence more than 1 MIDI channel, or could receive note data on more than 1 MIDI channel that would be awesome. I'd just add another synth and be on my way. No need to even consider ITB stuff.

OR if the Prophet 12 had more than 2 parts and you could allocate a number of voices either manually or dynamically I'd just get that and sequence it with Ableton and/or the Octatrack. Bam, hybrid setup.

I don't mind sequencing with Push, though it's pads are not nearly as nice as the Tempest. But I could probably do:

Push or Maschine > Some Synth > Octatrack

But then I keep wondering what's the point of having the OT if I'm gonna use Ableton Live? Why not sample and sequence with Live? Same thing with Maschine. Why bother with the OT?

Since playing with Maschine again yesterday though, I've been thinking maybe I will replace the SparkLE with Maschine, and replace the Tempest with just a regular synth rather than a drum machine. But I know I'd miss the scales mode. I was really bummed that NI didn't think to add that in Maschine 2.0, especially given Push has it. Still, the question remains which synth to replace Tempest with that's as easy to tweak, and has 6 multitimbral parts?
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #48
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natrixgli's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax ➑️
as for the MPC vs Spark debate.. they don't really compare.. MPC's are standalone and allow you to sequence external gear, they also have sampling capabilities.. as for the workflow, I take it most have never tried a 60/3000.. the most intuitive & best sounding MPCs imo
No, I tried a 5000 which I know a lot of people hate. That probably turned me off to the MPC series. I got it because it has basically an Alesis ION built into it and I thought it might be a worthy replacement for the Tempest.

Staring at the screen on that thing trying to figure it out made my eyes hurt. And I'm not that old
Old 16th March 2014
  #49
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conanb's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Just to clarify, I was not trying to start an MPC vs Spark (le) debate. I had MPC's for years and love them for what they do. I just simply wanted to state to the OP that in my opinion, with the gear he had, he wouldn't enjoy an MPC. The other poster got into a spurious debate by being rude to me on a clear misunderstanding (something about sync that I hadn't even mentioned). Spark can't do what an MPC can do, but for the OP's purposes I think it's infinitely better suited.
Old 16th March 2014
  #50
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xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
the 5K is a giant POS & not even worthy of the MPC moniker imo.. if you want an MPC replacement for Tempest, again you gotta look for the Roger Linn units..

Quote:
Originally Posted by natrixgli ➑️
Still, the question remains which synth to replace Tempest with that's as easy to tweak, and has 6 multitimbral parts?
the closest thing would be A4/AK but you didn't like it.. FWIW i didn't like the sound engine either pre-1.1 but i would seriously reconsider it now that they've added polyphony, tweaked the engine & added overbridge..
Old 16th March 2014
  #51
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xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
btw another alternative to Push/Maschine would be Renaissance, as it takes many cues from Linn MPCs.. it would be imo the closest in workflow to Tempest..
Old 16th March 2014
  #52
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natrixgli's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I will start by saying everyone has been very helpful. I like seeing the THIS vs THAT debates play out, it's helpful to see what people care about in their gear of choice. I totally understand people can be passionate about their tools. And people who don't like certain tools can be equally passionate. And conversations on the internets can easily turn heated.

No worries.

Anyway back to topic. I'm gonna quickly run down my setup and what each piece does. Maybe then it will be more clear what I am going for:

Elektron Octatrack:
Acts as a main mixer, inputs from the PC (SparkLE) and Tempest (Main Stereo Out) are going into THRU tracks. Track 8 is a master track which I use mainly for echo freeze delay and a bit of compression. Tracks in the OT usually consist of 1 synth riff, 1 bass riff, and 2-3 either looped, or chopped drum beats. I also have a handful of choice drum kits in there as sample chains. I am currently not using it's MIDI sequencer at all.

Arturia SparkLE:
Use this for more steady bread and butter drums, which are not really processed much by the OT save for a slight bit of reverb and the master FX. I do use a few kits with some melodic samples, but not much. Mostly I stick to basic drums with it. I do not use it's beat-wide FX because they are difficult to launch in time with the X-Y pad.

DSI Tempest:
This provides sample food to the OT for bass, synth parts, and some drums which are fed into Flex machines on the OT. I also run it to a THRU track on the OT and use it for a bit of drums as well. I am a drummer, so you can never have enough drums. One of the things I like about it is the distortion on the main output which I use fairly often. In addition to drums, I usually have a handful of pads which are used for playing live synth sounds via the pads in a scale with or without the arpeggiator on.

I have a good Macbook Pro so I am not afraid to incorporate the computer into my setup at all. So I can see the following possible scenarios working out:

#1 - Keep the OT as master, replace the Tempest & SparkLE with a Maschine and a synth.
Benefits: More variety with the Maschine vs Tempest, better "synth" features with a proper synth. (free LFOs, legato, etc.)
Drawbacks: I like playing the pads on the Tempest with synth sounds. Call me lazy or a ****ty keyboardist, but having scales is nice.

#2 - Remove the OT as master, use Ableton instead with Push and get a synth and use SparkLE as a plugin
Benefits: I don't need two samplers, and Ableton is a pretty good sampler. Ableton has scales. Everything is saved in the Ableton set, except for the synth patch.
Drawbacks: Then more than half my setup is ITB, which begs the question why not go 100% ITB and have total recall?

#3- Keep everything as-is and just add a synth that can make up for the Tempest's shortcomings. Sequence it with either the Tempest or Octatrack.
Benefits: I keep doing things how I am now, and don't really need to change my workflow.
Drawbacks: Moar gear, suddenly I don't have enough inputs on the OT, and either need to route audio thru the PC or get a mixer. BOO. more cables :(
Old 16th March 2014
  #53
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xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
the slut in me would say option #3.. one suggestion i haven't seen mentioned is Cirklon.. it's like the ultimate hardware sequencer has tons of scale options and can even semi-generate stuff.. quite a few people are using it to replace their MPCs, OTs, Ableton etc as master sequencer..
Old 16th March 2014
  #54
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conanb's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I haven't used Push but I've played live with Ableton and it can work a treat. I think it's best to get as minimal a set up for live use as possible so that each piece is absolutlely vital. I've been going out to see live electronic music for years and used to bitch and moan about guys on stage with just a laptop or a laptop and controller but lately I've seen the opposite; Guys with tables full of gear and lots of gear porn on show and you know what? It actually detracts from the music. You see these guys hopping from unit to unit and it just looks like a lot of work and it can be quite distracting when you can't hear an obvious correlation between what the guy is furiously twiddling with and the music you're hearing but the main problem is the sounds coming from the stage haven't improved, if anything the opposite. I'd tailor the live set to what you need to make the sounds you want to make. There's an acid house night on tonight in dublin and this is the guys set up:



It's minimal and you can be sure if he starts messing with one of those units you'll hear it as well as see it.
Old 16th March 2014
  #55
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natrixgli's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Another possibility I forgot to mention is

#4 - Stop worrying about gear and just practice more with what I have. It could just be that NAMM and Musikmesse have come and gone and yet I haven't bought any new gear in a while. I am pretty sure I like the Tempest too much to sell it without regret.

I could just dust off my Novation Ultranova and use that to get the sounds I can't get out of the Tempest and call it a day. Or maybe replace it with something a bit simpler even, like a Bass Station II, since really what the Tempest lacks is the ability to play good leads and bass.
Old 16th March 2014
  #56
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🎧 5 years
Yea get the BS2 and keep the tempest. I used both today it was a cool jam.
Old 16th March 2014
  #57
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conanb's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Something about the BS2 that keeps putting me off. Had a play around with it in the shop and it sounded great, but it didn't make me really want it. Does it have wooden sides? That always makes me buy stuff
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #58
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by conanb ➑️
OP already stated his tempest has sync issues. I never mentioned sync issues with the MPC. You need to get some education and learn to read before shooting your mouth off, lol.
Btw, spark has zero latency. Again, get some knowledge before passing comment.
My opinion stands, speed of workflow with Spark wipes the floor with the MPC (already told u I've had both) as it should, it's software with a controller, it's as quick as your computer, drag and drop. So much quicker it's not even funny compared to dicking about with menu buttons and jog wheels, lol.
when you say the spark has zero latency and then say it is software with a controller and it is as fast as your computer, first of all stop getting offended and what naught and in any case that is rubbish. of course there is latency, first from the spark to your computer via usb or midi whatever it is using i dont care it doesnt matter, and then from your computer to your soundcard via usb/firewire whatever you are using i dont care. that my friend implies latency so dont get your nickers in a twist
Old 18th March 2014
  #59
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conanb's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
No knickers in a twist dude, but try Spark before getting in my face. I have lots of problems with latency and complained about plugins and DAW's before but I have to say, the latency that exists with Spark LE is so short as to be unnoticeable. That's my point, try this stuff before getting involved in passing comment about it. And getting offended at naught? You need to re-read the conversation. My offence was taken at the rudeness of the comment about me getting some knowledge before giving advice, implying I don't know what I'm talking about.That was after he claimed I'd made some comment about sync issues with an MPC, which I didn't. Is it really so hard to grasp the english language and keep up with what went on? And actually, your tone was far worse than his when you chimed in about the MPC 4000, I didn't pass comment on you because I felt it was beneath me. But seeing as you're sticking your neck out again...

And by the way, "what naught" is supposed to be "what not".
Old 18th March 2014
  #60
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slaughtrhaus's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by natrixgli ➑️
Another possibility I forgot to mention is

#4 - Stop worrying about gear and just practice more with what I have. It could just be that NAMM and Musikmesse have come and gone and yet I haven't bought any new gear in a while. I am pretty sure I like the Tempest too much to sell it without regret.

I could just dust off my Novation Ultranova and use that to get the sounds I can't get out of the Tempest and call it a day. Or maybe replace it with something a bit simpler even, like a Bass Station II, since really what the Tempest lacks is the ability to play good leads and bass.
Yes kill your GAS, or at least come up with a plan to kill it. By this I mean plan out your rig and decide on a "complete" package, that fills all the roles (mono, poly, sampler, drum machine, etc) that you need. Once you have it figured out, stick to it. We live in a crazy time for gear. Last year I signed up for GS and went nuts buying everything, I got an OT and a tempest in the same week, lol. Once I sifted through the pile and settled on my simple but capable rig, I lost my GAS, in spite of new Elektron releases and a gaggle of other cool boxes coming out. once I stopped thinking about what new piece of kit I was going to try to add or integrate, I could concentrate on workflow and eventually composition. Now that the paradigm has been established, composition and sound design is all I do, which is what I wanted to be doing for the last year of being infected with GAS. I never would have made it to where I am now without buying the mountain of gear and sifting though it though...

Don't you have a gig coming up? You might want to keep your rig the same for a while. I absolutely hate using new gear at gigs, I literally wait until it is old to me. that way I know it inside and out before the pressure is on, and if something is out of whack I can fix it easily without a manual, etc...


If you want leads and bass BS II is nice, but a Sub Phatty kills it IMO.
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