Quantcast
100% Pure Analog! (How?) - Page 8 - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
100% Pure Analog! (How?)
Old 22nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #211
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
you can do "analog" reverbs with envelopes. i do it on my FM synths all the time. but it's easy on a modular too where you can easily route envelopes and you can have a bunch. a lot of my best reverbs have been made with envelopes.

if you don't care about digital control of analog, analog4, a multitrack tape deck and time would be an easy way. lots of multi tracks even have CV / click inputs so you could keep it in time w/o MIDI. if digital envelopes don't do it for you how about 4 mini-ms20s, a multi-track and get patching.

to be honest, i think 99% of what people call analog happens near the end of the signal chain, a digital signal run through a lofi noisy DAC + analog distortion and saturation as long as you avoid digital clipping is going to sound "analog". on a lot of 80s records the analog stuff was sampled first anyway.

like this track is an sr-16 and a nord lead to a mixer to tape. what's the give away that it's digital?


Quote:
Originally Posted by coffee ➑️
I've been actually pondering an idea of building some effects myself. Like getting some cheap Accutronics springs and stretching them to Pringles or cucumber can. Or getting cheap piezo mics and gluing them to some plate surface. Then building some cheap electronics crap that could be synced in one way or another. Many analog designs sound absolutely horrible before you put them through a spring reverb but after that you can congratulate yourself for creating marvellous putneyian space sounds. Then I would mix all the strange sounds together with a Studiomaster (or Boss BX-series if on budget) mixer with every channel sunken in massive distortion. And recording all that to the Akai tube driven 2-track reel-to-reel I found from a trash container. I wonder if I have a next hipster hit record in the making.
i don't think it's hipster it's just fun stuff to **** around with and people have been doing it forever...

8 minutes in:


also for the tape heads:


the book Handmade Electronic Music is great, but the funny thing is a lot the really fun stuff uses digital circuits. anyway get in there and make cool stuff!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmoflot ➑️
a bit of off topic...
i had an Atari 130XE when i was a kid... nothing like loading games from tape
... but in the mid 90's it became obvious that this is already old tech seeng as everyone had their segas around (which i was denied to have)
so being a curious 12 year old i cracked it open to see what's inside.. just to dump it in the trash later... I still reproach myself for that...
damn... who would've thought It's gonna get nostalgic some 16 years later???
haha the sound chips in those sound great! ...it's all digital. squares, like a mother****er.



digital is just like having a giant incredibly fast sequencer. 10 is just on to off. it's interesting where people make the distinction of when that is okay and when it isn't. to me it seems arbitrary. it'd be like not using square waves.

but i don't think there is anything wrong with thinking about what you're using to make music and why, as well as trying out different ways of doing ****, so why not!
Old 22nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #212
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
you can do "analog" reverbs with envelopes. i do it on my FM synths all the time. but it's easy on a modular too where you can easily route envelopes and you can have a bunch. a lot of my best reverbs have been made with envelopes.

if you don't care about digital control of analog, analog4, a multitrack tape deck and time would be an easy way. lots of multi tracks even have CV / click inputs so you could keep it in time w/o MIDI. if digital envelopes don't do it for you how about 4 mini-ms20s, a multi-track and get patching.

to be honest, i think 99% of what people call analog happens near the end of the signal chain, a digital signal run through a lofi noisy DAC + analog distortion and saturation as long as you avoid digital clipping is going to sound "analog". on a lot of 80s records the analog stuff was sampled first anyway.

like this track is an sr-16 and a nord lead to a mixer to tape. what's the give away that it's digital?


Quote:
Originally Posted by coffee ➑️
I've been actually pondering an idea of building some effects myself. Like getting some cheap Accutronics springs and stretching them to Pringles or cucumber can. Or getting cheap piezo mics and gluing them to some plate surface. Then building some cheap electronics crap that could be synced in one way or another. Many analog designs sound absolutely horrible before you put them through a spring reverb but after that you can congratulate yourself for creating marvellous putneyian space sounds. Then I would mix all the strange sounds together with a Studiomaster (or Boss BX-series if on budget) mixer with every channel sunken in massive distortion. And recording all that to the Akai tube driven 2-track reel-to-reel I found from a trash container. I wonder if I have a next hipster hit record in the making.
i don't think it's hipster it's just fun stuff to **** around with and people have been doing it forever...

8 minutes in:


also for the tape heads:


the book Handmade Electronic Music is great, but the funny thing is a lot the really fun stuff uses digital circuits. anyway get in there and make cool stuff!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmoflot ➑️
a bit of off topic...
i had an Atari 130XE when i was a kid... nothing like loading games from tape
... but in the mid 90's it became obvious that this is already old tech seeng as everyone had their segas around (which i was denied to have)
so being a curious 12 year old i cracked it open to see what's inside.. just to dump it in the trash later... I still reproach myself for that...
damn... who would've thought It's gonna get nostalgic some 16 years later???
haha the sound chips in those sound great! ...it's all digital. squares, like a mother****er.



digital is just like having a giant incredibly fast sequencer. 10 is just on to off. it's interesting where people make the distinction of when that is okay and when it isn't. to me it seems arbitrary. it'd be like not using square waves.

but i don't think there is anything wrong with thinking about what you're using to make music and why, as well as trying out different ways of doing ****, so why not!
Old 22nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #213
Gear Maniac
 
kosmoflot's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
cool stuff... well I've been to my tech recently and chat with him for about an hour about synths...
He showed me some a photo of one mad thing though!... A homemade tapedeck DJ console! Damn! something like two walkmans installed in a suitcase (a wooden one(!)) with some knobs to control them... I've never seen something like this. I'll try and ask him for photos of the thing next week just for the fun of it!
Holy cow... a sharecroppers DJ tapedeck console... it just couldn't get any better!
Old 22nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #214
Lives for gear
 
Seccione's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmoflot ➑️
A homemade tapedeck DJ console! Damn! something like two walkmans installed in a suitcase (a wooden one(!)) with some knobs to control them...
What?! Omg, so cool!

Those cassettes must've got some serious punishment if the DJ (or "CJ"?) was attempting to do beat syncing!
Old 22nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #215
Gear Maniac
 
kosmoflot's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seccione ➑️
What?! Omg, so cool!

Those cassettes must've got some serious punishment if the DJ (or "CJ"?) was attempting to do beat syncing!
I'll try and ask jim for a pic. Well this may be a nice idea... but it was seriously crude implemented! very unique I must say... It had about 8 knobs or so (unlabelled!) and tech said they could figure what about 4 of them actually do
But yeah! being a CJ is very cool!!!
Old 22nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #216
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmoflot ➑️
I'll try and ask jim for a pic. Well this may be a nice idea... but it was seriously crude implemented! very unique I must say... It had about 8 knobs or so (unlabelled!) and tech said they could figure what about 4 of them actually do
I hope it has pitch control (like in Tascam 122) that goes to at least +8!!
Old 22nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #217
Gear Maniac
 
kosmoflot's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffee ➑️
I hope it has pitch control (like in Tascam 122) that goes to at least +8!!
Yep! I think he mentioned thing had a pitch control! but no idea of the range though...

I can imagine some russian redneck folks dancing to some crappy pop hits of the 90's while drinking vodka in a collective farm recreation club and the deck eats up a cassette and the music stops and our local Tiesto gets beaten up because some drunk and angry sharecropper couldn't dance with the milkmaid!

But seriously it's not that old I suppose...
But still it's an image i like to imagine when I think of that tape mixing console
Old 22nd March 2014
  #218
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I've seen YouTube videos of russian wedding with the obligatory gang fight between brides and fiances relatives. Beating up the DJ would only be the natural next step in this continuum.
Old 22nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #219
Lives for gear
 
robot gigante's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmoflot ➑️
very well said! I agree 100%!

Us humans are much better at creating art than them automated robotic machines!
Hey, leave us robots out of this!
Old 22nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #220
Gear Maniac
 
kosmoflot's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffee ➑️
I've seen YouTube videos of russian wedding with the obligatory gang fight between brides and fiances relatives. Beating up the DJ would only be the natural next step in this continuum.
Yes yes yes

see what I mean oh them sharecroppers...

God have mercy on the redneck DJ!
Old 22nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #221
Gear Maniac
 
kosmoflot's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by robot gigante ➑️
Hey, leave us robots out of this!
ok ok! I've got a robotic augmentation myself!

But you've gotta leave at least some part of human in ya

Old 22nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #222
Gear Maniac
 
kosmoflot's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
here's something that awaits to be wasted!

actually that TDK tape is my exact age... 1985 baby! so I'm keeping it for some good stuff))
Attached Thumbnails
100% Pure Analog! (How?)-img_0674.jpg   100% Pure Analog! (How?)-img_0675.jpg  
Old 22nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #223
Lives for gear
 
dlmorley's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seccione ➑️
That looks dope! How does it work? Tape running in variable speed?
You can hear it in this piece on the voices at a certain point.
Old 22nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #224
Gear Maniac
 
kosmoflot's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlmorley ➑️
You can hear it in this piece on the voices at a certain point.
this Tempophon is crazy!

It's a very rare piece I suppose?
Old 22nd March 2014
  #225
Lives for gear
 
dlmorley's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I presume so. I bought the only one I found although I saw one in auction another time. Quite a few 60's electronic studios would have had one but it was expensive so only those with a decent budget. A useable museum piece I guess! If you want to do analogue pitchshifting and timestretching, it's the only thing I know of!
Old 22nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #226
Lives for gear
 
Seccione's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
That's quite impressive. Have you used it yourself?
Old 22nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #227
Lives for gear
 
dlmorley's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seccione ➑️
That's quite impressive. Have you used it yourself?
I'd like to say extensively, but no! The motor turns and that is as far as I have got!
Old 22nd March 2014
  #228
Gear Maniac
 
kjukambe's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Please, someone! Reissue that Tempopnone! Please! Any cost (up to $2k maybe))

I need several machines of this kind to play guitar in my "counterpoint" style and have lush organic sound. Synth counterpoint can be achieved via midi delay/pitch, but i play the guitar alot, and this is the only way. i have soft pitchshifters of any kind and classic whammy pedal, but that's not THAT thing. I always dreamed of an analog pitchshifter, and (like in the case of VRS-23) thought it is almost impossible. Fortunately, i was wrong!
Old 22nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #229
Gear Maniac
 
kosmoflot's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
what's the principle of Tempophone? I mean how does it do it?

kjukambe - maybe you can contact vtol and ask him to make one for you? or something similar maybe?
do you know of vtol and what he does??
Old 22nd March 2014
  #230
Lives for gear
 
dlmorley's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Around the 1960's, the Springer Tempophon with rotating tape heads was developed, and could do such jobs. Several composers, notably Stockhausen, were fascinated by this machine and used it in electronic composition.

The rotating tape heads read the signal at a speed independent from the tape playback speed. The tape speed relative to the machine determines the time duration, while the playback head speed relative to the tape determines the pitch. The heads can move along with the tape direction for lower pitch, or move in the opposite direction for higher pitch. Six tape heads in a drum were used in this mechanical construction. I have never seen a Tempophon with my own eyes, but from descriptions I derived it's working principle.
Old 22nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #231
Gear Maniac
 
kosmoflot's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
thanks! an extremely weird device and very interesting!
Old 22nd March 2014
  #232
Gear Maniac
 
kjukambe's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
kosmoflot, yeah, i know vtol, i even been at his place, but we rarely contact now. couple years ago we've talk about analogue pitchshifting and he said it is nonexistent) now it seems he is totally focused on digital lo-fi stuff for noise music, and his favourite analog circuit is feedback)) but i'll try! thanks for pointing me!
Old 22nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #233
Gear Maniac
 
kosmoflot's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjukambe ➑️
kosmoflot, yeah, i know vtol, i even been at his place, but we rarely contact now. couple years ago we've talk about analogue pitchshifting and he said it is nonexistent) now it seems he is totally focused on digital lo-fi stuff for noise music, and his favourite analog circuit is feedback)) but i'll try! thanks for pointing me!
yeah vtol has some really good stuff! but it's very artsy!)
well maybe one day... you never know...
Old 22nd March 2014
  #234
bry
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Another advantage of using MIDI to sequence synths is that you can tweak their sounds while mixing.
If you record a synth performance to tape, you're stuck with that, or you have to record it again if you want to change it.
With MIDI you can be playing everything in real time while mixing, which will give you much more possibilities in terms of sound shaping for drum machines, synths, etc, while keeping the audio path fully analog.
Old 22nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #235
Lives for gear
 
djmukilteo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bry ➑️
Another advantage of using MIDI to sequence synths is that you can tweak their sounds while mixing.
If you record a synth performance to tape, you're stuck with that, or you have to record it again if you want to change it.
With MIDI you can be playing everything in real time while mixing, which will give you much more possibilities in terms of sound shaping for drum machines, synths, etc, while keeping the audio path fully analog.
It's all Photoshop for audio is all I can say...
Old 23rd March 2014
  #236
bry
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
You can capture a performance in MIDI the same way you'd do it in a multi track recorder, if you're that purist you don't have to quantize it or touch it in anyway, and it will be basically your performance in there, with added versatility.

In my case I'd rather favour the songs, and since I'm not a keyboard player myself, my songs benefit a lot from me using MIDI and sequencing instead of playing them live. To each their own, but the sound can still be 100% analog when using MIDI, and that's the point here. You can not use Photoshop and still end up with an analog image, so it's more like using a digitally controlled negative developing machine, since you still end up with a negative film in the end.

In this day and age, combining analog sound with digital control is the best of both worlds.
Old 23rd March 2014 | Show parent
  #237
Lives for gear
 
Teknobeam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bry ➑️
You can capture a performance in MIDI the same way you'd do it in a multi track recorder, if you're that purist you don't have to quantize it or touch it in anyway, and it will be basically your performance in there, with added versatility.

In my case I'd rather favour the songs, and since I'm not a keyboard player myself, my songs benefit a lot from me using MIDI and sequencing instead of playing them live. To each their own, but the sound can still be 100% analog when using MIDI, and that's the point here. You can not use Photoshop and still end up with an analog image, so it's more like using a digitally controlled negative developing machine, since you still end up with a negative film in the end.

In this day and age, combining analog sound with digital control is the best of both worlds.
Yes.. you can do it all in a multitrack midi environment (Atari 1040st). I used to do that. You learn to make that work very effectively. But you also mention utilizing a combination of tools. yes.. even more powerful. midi sequencing with the ability to record real time un quantized tracks to a DAW is much better. Mind blowing actually.
Old 23rd March 2014 | Show parent
  #238
Lives for gear
 
djmukilteo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bry ➑️
You can capture a performance in MIDI the same way you'd do it in a multi track recorder, if you're that purist you don't have to quantize it or touch it in anyway, and it will be basically your performance in there, with added versatility.

In my case I'd rather favour the songs, and since I'm not a keyboard player myself, my songs benefit a lot from me using MIDI and sequencing instead of playing them live. To each their own, but the sound can still be 100% analog when using MIDI, and that's the point here. You can not use Photoshop and still end up with an analog image, so it's more like using a digitally controlled negative developing machine, since you still end up with a negative film in the end.

In this day and age, combining analog sound with digital control is the best of both worlds.
I was mostly just funnin with ya bry!...just being a smartass and talking this out to the 100% analog purist level.....right!
I believe you should and can do whatever you like and I'm a total fan of ITB and computers. And the best of both worlds like you said as a hybrid model using the best of both is great.
I like this thread mostly because I'm an old fart and I grew up with tape recorders and record players and watched the way songs were recorded back then. In fact synth's (Moog) had just come out in the 60's when I was a kid and that's what actually got me interested in sound, speakers, tape recorders, amps and organs.
I've played and recorded music with all that stuff for many many years. I even still have Tascam multi-track tape decks and mixers. But I also have Cubase, RME FF800, ZEDR16, Roland keyboards etc. etc which I use to do the same thing. And it's amazing how good those tools are compared to the old tools. It's just different...like tubes versus solid state.
So this thread I believe is a great opportunity to think analog and create more analog rather than automating the art form. I don't want to see or hear the digital take over the analog creativity that we have as a human.
After all you're analog. The digital technology just helps you express the analog rather than turning music into a software game and where all you think it takes is the next latest plugin. It's all the same noise at some point and it's just machines and software creating sound....
Old 24th March 2014
  #239
Lives for gear
 
slaughtrhaus's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seccione ➑️
As an opposite force to this new digital graze I was thinking that it would be a cool project to publish a vinyl (or cassette!) of electronic music that was made with 100% analog signal path. (Probably not gonna do that, but let's take this as academic exercise!)

So no recording to DAW's, no digital effect boxes, no VA.


Synths are easily available for that purpose, but what would be the options for sweetening the sound nowadays? Any affordable modern analog effects available that you could recommend? (Can be oldies as well, of course!)

For example, are analog reverb pedals useful for anything? (Assuming one would like to sound even remotely contemporary?)

How about dynamic processors?


What would you recommend for multitracking?
I'm looking at prices here and that's a tad too much this exercise!

Maybe Tascam's Portastudio (or similar) would be the way to go?


Please feed the troll.
Although I spotted what looks like a small Casio, this would appear to be the troll food you seek. A truly 100% analog moment in time-check out the drummer.

Old 24th March 2014 | Show parent
  #240
Lives for gear
 
Seccione's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
^^ Nice!

I also found the VHS artifacts in the video itself rather warm and musical.


The song itself seemed to survive time better than the clothing.
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 75 views: 10911
Avatar for Doublehelix
Doublehelix 30th June 2005
replies: 122 views: 10711
Avatar for Ben F
Ben F 8th November 2008
replies: 21 views: 3699
Avatar for Robby in WA
Robby in WA 30th November 2013
replies: 289 views: 16103
Avatar for joeq
joeq 30th September 2020
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump