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Kurzweil Messe announcement?
Old 11th March 2014
  #1
Kurzweil Messe announcement?

Tonight 8 PM EST. Sounds intriguing...

https://www.facebook.com/kurzweilmus...type=1&theater
Old 12th March 2014
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Kurzweil is proud to announce our patented new technology, Flash Playβ„’ !

It allows us to play many GBs of samples with extremely low latency and zero loading time.

What are we using it for? Find out tonight at 8PM EST!
For that all digital sample based 808 inspired workstation we've been really hoping someone would come out with...
Old 12th March 2014
  #3
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
The Forte!!!



https://www.facebook.com/kurzweilmusicsystems
Old 12th March 2014
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Omg I think the new 16 gigs of samples mixed with vast= the best sounds ever!!!
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by classictunz ➑️
Omg I think the new 16 gigs of samples mixed with vast= the best sounds ever!!!
Indeed... And, they doubled the FX. Life gets very interesting if you have 32 units of effects to play with along with all the other VAST stuff.

Edit: Oh, and don't forget this little tidbit -- "New UI with widescreen color LCD display"
Old 12th March 2014
  #6
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muziksculp's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
So... No new K-Series Synth .... i.e. Kurzweil K3000 ?

The new Forte seems to be focusing on Piano sounds. (Not a full Synth) ? or am I missing something ?
Old 12th March 2014
  #7
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drxcm's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I loved the PC3K and the KSP8, this will be a beast.
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Guru
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by muziksculp ➑️
So... No new K-Series Synth .... i.e. Kurzweil K3000 ?

The new Forte seems to be focusing on Piano sounds. (Not a full Synth) ? or am I missing something ?
It will give you a glimpse of what you can expect from the K3k. If this has 16 GB of just keyboard sounds - how many gigs with K3k have?

Potential Kronos killer, for sure.



Besides, Forte features PC3K and Artis sounds, too, so it will definitely have synth sounds.
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #9
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synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon ➑️
Potential Kronos killer, for sure.
A-hem... giga-libraries have been out for years. Besides, rompler, Kronos killer? Sure.

Kronos isn't perfect, but it's close. The Jupiters/Integra aren't perfect, but they're close. However, they have one thing the Kurz lacks, and that's actual synth engines. Kurzweil needs to have more than a low aliasing OSC and a Mogue filter model in the next baby. They have a cool VA sitting in their hard drives, use the thing, and provide it with a nice knobby, slidery, buttony panel to support it. And for GOD'S SAKE make it easy to program without the "guess why I won't work" attitude. Then we'll talk.
Old 12th March 2014
  #10
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tvsky's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
hmmm i never heard anyone consider vast not an actual synth engine......
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Guru
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy ➑️
A-hem... giga-libraries have been out for years. Besides, rompler, Kronos killer? Sure.
That wasn't about Forte, that was about the prospect of K3k.
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #12
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muziksculp's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon ➑️
It will give you a glimpse of what you can expect from the K3k. If this has 16 GB of just keyboard sounds - how many gigs with K3k have?

Potential Kronos killer, for sure.



Besides, Forte features PC3K and Artis sounds, too, so it will definitely have synth sounds.
Thanks for the feedback.

I have finally given up on YAMAHA. (Yeah.. You told me not to expect anything special from YAWNMAHA, and you were right),

Now.. Hoping that Kurzweil will release the K3000 this year. but not holding my breath that will happen.

Will they release a K3000 this year ? or in the year 3000 ?

Cheers,
Muziksculp
Old 12th March 2014
  #13
Gear Guru
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I would assume no K3000 this year, but next one might be interesting.
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy ➑️
A-hem... giga-libraries have been out for years. Besides, rompler, Kronos killer? Sure.

Kronos isn't perfect, but it's close. The Jupiters/Integra aren't perfect, but they're close. However, they have one thing the Kurz lacks, and that's actual synth engines. Kurzweil needs to have more than a low aliasing OSC and a Mogue filter model in the next baby. They have a cool VA sitting in their hard drives, use the thing, and provide it with a nice knobby, slidery, buttony panel to support it. And for GOD'S SAKE make it easy to program without the "guess why I won't work" attitude. Then we'll talk.
The VA parts of VAST actually go beyond just SAW, SQUARE, and MOGUE 4PLP. For one thing, all the oscillator blocks (aliasing and non-aliasing) can be pitched down 12000 cents, which gets you very far down into LFO territory. They can be used as LFOs too; do FM with a pitched-down osc and you get vibrato, AM and you get tremolo, etc. Use the SAW pitched down as an ultra-stable clock source; send it out the secondary outputs and run that into the CV input of anything that accepts CV (or back into the kurz itself via the CC Pedal inputs). Use it to "ping" a filter with lots of resonance and a steep pitch filter and you'll get the classic analog kick drum. All of this IIRC is not possible on the K2xxx synths and is part of the VA "heritage" from the VA-1. Also, I believe the other filters were tweaked as well (not just the MOGUE); IIRC the K2xxx synths don't have the "drive" parameter on their filter blocks.

Anyways, there are many other VA features besides these, and I think a strong argument could be made that the K2000 was actually one of the first VA synths anyways.

The problem with synth engines is the limitations they impose. You're stuck inside the box that the engine designer made for you. In some sense that's true here as well, but in many ways it's not -- you can plug anything into anything else in VAST. No arbitrary limits on FM operators, for instance, or how many filters you can use (here's six FM operators in series with six bandpass filters: ) and so on. The main limitation on the PC3 series is the refresh rate for control sources. Thanks to the replugging trick you can use any VAST array of DSP as a control source, but the microprocessor running the show updates the control sources about 24 times a second, so everything is "sampled" at a lower frequency than might otherwise be useful.

If the Forte a.) has control pedal inputs, and b.) has a microprocessor that operates at a higher rate, then we're in business and you now have every VAST thing available as a control source at audio rates, regardless of whether or not it's been added internally to VAST. Food for thought...

Edit: One other thing -- aliasing is very useful for synthesis. This sound for instance is very difficult to achieve without aliasing: So here's to hoping all future versions of VAST keep the oscillators that exhibit aliasing.
Old 12th March 2014
  #15
Gear Nut
 
jayteejr's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Well, there is a reason I kept the K2600RS/K2661 and haven't upgraded to the PC3K yet, why? because it still sounds good and competes well with all of the newly released stuff... I can still layer + chain and feed it all to the oh so lovely KDFX and have access to one of the largest libraries around... That's not even including the AKAI, Roland, & Ensoniq CDs I have suitcases of... Kurz just needs to release the damn K3000 already and then maybe I'll upgrade...
Old 12th March 2014
  #16
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
I think the k series is dead! If the Forts has vast it will exceed anything we dreamt the k3000 could've been.

We are talking about 16 gigs of sample from a company that had the smallest ROM mass for the last 15 years!

IMHO this is a k6000! Especially if you figure you could only run 4-5 KDFX, do the math 32 effects in the Forts and 4 in the k2600...
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #17
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muziksculp's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by classictunz ➑️
I think the k series is dead! If the Forts has vast it will exceed anything we dreamt the k3000 could've been.

We are talking about 16 gigs of sample from a company that had the smallest ROM mass for the last 15 years!

IMHO this is a k6000! Especially if you figure you could only run 4-5 KDFX, do the math 32 effects in the Forts and 4 in the k2600...
Kurzweil is marketing the new Forte as a Stage Piano. Not as their top of the line new Synth. I doubt it can claim to take the place of a K3000 or K6000
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by muziksculp ➑️
Kurzweil is marketing the new Forte as a Stage Piano. Not as their top of the line new Synth. I doubt it can claim to take the place of a K3000 or K6000
Well thank you for ruining my closer! I'll just ponder on and wait to see what happens...
Old 15th March 2014
  #19
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
They've got a page up for it now: Product: Forte | Kurzweil

Looks pretty good, except for a couple things: it's still pretty heavy - close to 50 pounds (22.5kg), and there's no option for a ribbon.

That's one of the things I really like about my K2600 - the 2 ribbons. Almost makes up for the things I don't like about it - like scsi.

I'm still waiting for Kurzweil to make a lightweight, reasonably priced controller with features like the K2600 has. No need for sounds really, just the usual knobs and sliders, assignable per zone, aftertouch/velocity/release velocity, pedal and breath controller inputs and so on.
Old 15th March 2014
  #20
Gear Guru
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
22.5 kg is pretty good. I'd rather have it sturdy than too light. It's actualy 2.5 kg lighter than my PC3K8, so thumbs up for that.

There will also be a 76 and 73 key version, they are supposed to be lighter.
Old 15th March 2014 | Show parent
  #21
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synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by poserp ➑️
Anyways, there are many other VA features besides these, and I think a strong argument could be made that the K2000 was actually one of the first VA synths anyways. (and lots more words)
I'm well up on all of that, and sort of agree with you about one of the first VAs, sort of, because it does have a lot of synth functionality that even many VAs don't. Though really, the first VA was the Roland D-50.

Quote:
The problem with synth engines is the limitations they impose. You're stuck inside the box that the engine designer made for you. In some sense that's true here as well, but in many ways it's not -- you can plug anything into anything else in VAST.
The Kurzweils really are the least "stuck in the box" synths made that we mere mortals can afford. I've been calling them baby Synclaviers for years because of all the mangling of sounds you can do even in the K2000 synth engine, and the PC3 is over the top, letting you chain DSP blocks till you run out of resources and can only play one note.

My FM-ish experiments with a PC3 haven't gone very far, and I seem to have trouble getting quality time with one lately so that may not change for a while. And honestly, FM is a breeze on a Yamaha FM synth or Kronos, not to leave out the Alesis Fusion as something of an FM beast, so I should just focus on one of them. But the PC3 has so much potential in this regard, it's hard to not want to use it for that style of soundmaking. The problem is that it's SO different even from Yammy style FM which is its own challenge to come to terms with, that doing FM on a Kurz is like slicing turkey with a chainsaw. With Yamaha style FM, you can miss and end up somewhere musical, but with a Kurz, you often become Morton Subotnik, and I mean that in a bad way. And to compound things, the Kurz will occasionally refuse to do something when it seems like it should work.

While there are musicians which make a particular synth their trademark, like Eddie Jobson and Vangelis with the CS-80, it seems that the only musician that really groks the Kurz is Jordan Rudess. Of course he's a mad scientist so that figures. I'd love to be another, but it may take a few years of chaining myself to one and just tinkering for hours to see if I can make some sense of those arcane DSP blocks, and how they mosh when thrown at each other.

In any case, if the PC3 is like a Kurz 2800 and the Forte a 2900, maybe I should give it a closer look. Ouch, but no ribbon support...
Old 15th March 2014 | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy ➑️
A-hem... giga-libraries have been out for years. Besides, rompler, Kronos killer? Sure.

Kronos isn't perfect, but it's close. The Jupiters/Integra aren't perfect, but they're close. However, they have one thing the Kurz lacks, and that's actual synth engines. Kurzweil needs to have more than a low aliasing OSC and a Mogue filter model in the next baby. They have a cool VA sitting in their hard drives, use the thing, and provide it with a nice knobby, slidery, buttony panel to support it. And for GOD'S SAKE make it easy to program without the "guess why I won't work" attitude. Then we'll talk.
I don't think kontakt libraries are gig friendly enough, so it's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. The kurzweil synth engines are fine by the way, sure some things are lacking, but other things are also not so lacking.

Poserp, cool use of aliasing on that sound. Ring modulators indeed can be useful for creating inharmonic sounds (aliasing is not ideal though in that you can't change the frequency). If you don't mind, may I ask how did you set that up?
Old 15th March 2014
  #23
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ModularOverkill's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Can anyone give a quick summary of the pros/cons of this vs. Kronos and Artiste?
Old 15th March 2014 | Show parent
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy ➑️
My FM-ish experiments with a PC3 haven't gone very far, and I seem to have trouble getting quality time with one lately so that may not change for a while. And honestly, FM is a breeze on a Yamaha FM synth or Kronos, not to leave out the Alesis Fusion as something of an FM beast, so I should just focus on one of them. But the PC3 has so much potential in this regard, it's hard to not want to use it for that style of soundmaking. The problem is that it's SO different even from Yammy style FM which is its own challenge to come to terms with, that doing FM on a Kurz is like slicing turkey with a chainsaw. With Yamaha style FM, you can miss and end up somewhere musical, but with a Kurz, you often become Morton Subotnik, and I mean that in a bad way. And to compound things, the Kurz will occasionally refuse to do something when it seems like it should work.
I'm now of the opinion that the PC3 has its own "thing" to contribute to the art of FM synthesis. I'm working on the manual for my next soundware release for the PC3. Here are some FM-ish chains from some of the patches:

Code:
"Adelanto":

SW+SHP --> GAIN --> SW+SHP |--> PARAMETRIC EQ 

|--> GAIN --> SINE+ --> WRAP --> SHAPER
\|--> GAIN --> SW+SHP


"Duarte":

SAW --> 2POLE HIPASS --> GAIN --> SW+SHP 
|--> LOPASS --> GAIN
          \--> GAIN

"Yermo":

PWM --> SINE+ --> SHAPER |--> 2POLE LOWPASS --> GAIN --> SW+SHP


"Alhambra":

SAW --> 2POLE LOWPASS --> SHAPER 
SQUARE --> 2POLE LOWPASS --> SHAPER


"Gower":

SINE --> GAIN --> BANDPASS |--> SW+SHP --> GAIN --> BANDPASS |--> SW+SHP --> GAIN --> BANDPASS |--> SW+SHP 
--> GAIN --> BANDPASS |--> SW+SHP --> GAIN --> BANDPASS |--> SW+SHP --> GAIN --> BANDPASS


"Slauson":

Saw Wave Dullest (keymap) --> BANDPASS --> GAIN --> SHAPER |--> BANDPASS --> GAIN --> SW+SHP

Or, in other words, the's a whole lot more to FM than Yamaha/FM8/Kronos...
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