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Midi Sound Modules? What has become of them?
Old 11th March 2014 | Show parent
  #31
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choond's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruisemates ➑️

Roland JV2020 is $249 and is available from US - but it seems bigger & more dated (expansion cards? - I wouldn't want to find out I need to buy these to get the sounds I want).
There isn't a JV 2020, you must mean the old JV 2080? XV 2020 is the model mntioned on this thread, goes for around US $199 on ebay- its an early 2000's model with USB and accepts 2X SRX boards (you don't need them, there are hundreds of sounds on the board already but they give you options to add specialized sound libraries eg orchestral, strings, Vintage synths, drums, world etc). Has very good effects and software patch editor as well. This is the XV 2020:

Old 11th March 2014
  #32
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
The Integra is very cool - are a lot of you guys using it with a DAW? Does it integrate well with ProTools, for example? Or do you tend to stay in the midi domain, maybe using Logic more?

If you use it with a DAW (as opposed to using a bunch of plug-in samples) do you just use one midi connection and then bring all the different sounds back on different channels? (or I suppose you could also actually patch them back into an interface through the eight separate outputs on the back.)

I assume they work really well with a DAW - as good or better than a lot of plugins - or is there just an Integra plugin that you use instead?
Old 11th March 2014
  #33
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Xero's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
get a mks-30 then you can pretend you have a gr-700, hahaha. its basically the same thing as the brain of a gr-700 midi guitar...
Old 11th March 2014 | Show parent
  #34
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
I don't think I saw the XV2020 listed on eBay or at the Roland site (or was it vintagesynth?), just the JV models. I kind of assumed maybe you just got the models numbers confused. There were other XV models, but not a 1010 or 2020. But I see you have a picture of one - I just didn't see any listed in eBay right now. It does look like what I want, though.
Old 11th March 2014 | Show parent
  #35
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channaD's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruisemates ➑️
I already described the exact system I have - the fishman midi pickup for guitars, but it does not come with a synth module, all it does is send midi information out via USB. It is made for DAW recording, but I want to use it live (no computer).
I have the Fishman MIDI pickup for my guitar as well...I'm pretty sure you need a computer and a DAW to route the MIDI signals to a rack mounted synth. You can use the the fishman software, but you'll still need a computer.

I use an FCB1010 for switching via midi using ableton live for my live looping guitar rig. I play both piano and violin parts on the guitar via the fishman MIDI pickup going to NI plug-ins. This was before I got my Roland Integra-7.

For those of you asking about the Roland Integra-7, I absolutely love mine!! I also got it for $1500 on a 12 month payment plan through zzounds. $125/mo is not a bad deal for what you get.

Back to the live rig, now that I have the Integra-7, the next live looping situation will be centered around the Integra-7. I will use it with multiple parts, separate midi tracks in live with different midi channels to send to the Integra-7. I'll be able to live loop a drum part, then add bass, guitar, bass, strings, synths. Whatever. The more I use the Integra-7, the less cpu load on my laptop. I've never had any issues in a live situation, and with the Integra-7, it should be less. Can't wait for my next live looping gig!

In the studio, I can use the Integra in one of two ways. The first being keeping everything in MIDI and assigning different channels to any of the 16 parts of the Integra-7. I usually print to audio as much as possible. I don't like to stay in MIDI unless I'm on a roll and I can't decide how the melody/progression/arrangement will go.
Old 11th March 2014 | Show parent
  #36
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
You certainly CAN use the computer to load a hard synth or plugins and use the Fishman software - but I found the latency and to time it takes to switch sounds to be unacceptable. Granted, I never got the hard synth working with my fishman siftware, but I have used it with plugins.

I just decided I did not want to take a computer on gigs, so I found a way to convert the USB midi to 5-pin midi using this:

Kenton MIDI USB Host - and yes I have tried it and it works. I think some of the newer sound modules might have USB midi in already (I saw the USB input jack on the back of a Yamaha Motif Keyboard) - but sometimes that connector is also used for thumb drives for dumping data.

Old 11th March 2014 | Show parent
  #37
Lives for gear
 
choond's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruisemates ➑️
I don't think I saw the XV2020 listed on eBay or at the Roland site (or was it vintagesynth?), just the JV models. I kind of assumed maybe you just got the models numbers confused. There were other XV models, but not a 1010 or 2020. But I see you have a picture of one - I just didn't see any listed in eBay right now. It does look like what I want, though.
No worries, You can see going prices for gear by selecting `completed listings' on the ebay menu to the left - most gear you want is out of production, so won't be for sale every single day. But if you check `completed listings' (left hand menu) you will get an idea of what gear sells for, and how often.

Last XV 2020 went for US $175 on march 4. You can check prices for other modules you are interested in this way too.

Midi Sound Modules? What has become of them?Roland XV2020 Synthesizer Sound Module XV 2020 | eBay
Old 12th March 2014
  #38
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waveform:blue's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Korg 05r/w.
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #39
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by waveform:blue ➑️
Korg 05r/w.
This could be a winner at ONLY $95 - and with user programmable presets. And it is even "synth + samples" The only drawback being from 1995 there is no editing software.
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #40
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channaD's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruisemates ➑️
You certainly CAN use the computer to load a hard synth or plugins and use the Fishman software - but I found the latency and to time it takes to switch sounds to be unacceptable. Granted, I never got the hard synth working with my fishman siftware, but I have used it with plugins.
I actually never use the Fishman software. Using my integra-7, the sounds change immediately. The Fishman pickup turns my guitar into a MIDI controller, sending MIDI data to my DAW of choice. There is no need to use the Fishman software. I actually think the Fishman software is a bit constrictive, and maybe there is a bit of latency if you have all that software going on at once. I don't experience any latency routing the midi data to the Integra-7 through Ableton.
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #41
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tux99's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruisemates ➑️
This could be a winner at ONLY $95 - and with user programmable presets. And it is even "synth + samples" The only drawback being from 1995 there is no editing software.
The 05R/W is from 1993 (not 1995) and there are multiple editors for it. Granted they are all very old, written for Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 but they do still work on XP.

Also I started writing a more modern editor for the 05R/W (and X5DR and X5 and X5D) using Perl as programming language so that it runs on Linux and Win 7 and 8, but life got in the way so it's not finished yet. I hope I will finish it later this year. The code so far is here:
https://github.com/tux99/xseries_editor
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #42
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tux99 ➑️
The 05R/W is from 1993 (not 1995) and there are multiple editors for it. Granted they are all very old, written for Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 but they do still work on XP.

Also I started writing a more modern editor for the 05R/W (and X5DR and X5 and X5D) using Perl as programming language so that it runs on Linux and Win 7 and 8, but life got in the way so it's not finished yet. I hope I will finish it later this year. The code so far is here:
https://github.com/tux99/xseries_editor
I admire your dedication. The review I saw of it in SOS was from 1995.

Funny - even XP is about to become obsolete. I think you have to draw the line someplace
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #43
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by channaD ➑️
I actually never use the Fishman software. Using my integra-7, the sounds change immediately. The Fishman pickup turns my guitar into a MIDI controller, sending MIDI data to my DAW of choice. There is no need to use the Fishman software. I actually think the Fishman software is a bit constrictive, and maybe there is a bit of latency if you have all that software going on at once. I don't experience any latency routing the midi data to the Integra-7 through Ableton.
Can you tell me more how you control the Integra with your Fishman?

With a DAW it is easy to set up a single midi channel and control a plugin - but did you do anything special to control the Integra with your Fishman? Do you hold down one of the keys on the controller on your guitar when you start it up, for example?

There are instructions in the manual on how to set up a list of presets on a hard symth, and supposedly you can access that list if you boot up with a key held down, but I guess you need the FTP software to do that.

If I go straight into a synth from my FTP (via the USB hub) I find I can navigate one patch at a time with the A and C (top & bottom) buttons on the controller. However, the display on the synth stays the same (it doesn't change when I change patches on the FTP). Does the display change on your Integra when you change patches? Or do you change patches a different way?
Old 12th March 2014
  #44
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BobTheDog's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Hardware mode (no fishman software) http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/ind...69058#msg69058

PDF in first post
Old 13th March 2014 | Show parent
  #45
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channaD's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruisemates ➑️
Can you tell me more how you control the Integra with your Fishman?

With a DAW it is easy to set up a single midi channel and control a plugin - but did you do anything special to control the Integra with your Fishman? Do you hold down one of the keys on the controller on your guitar when you start it up, for example?

There are instructions in the manual on how to set up a list of presets on a hard symth, and supposedly you can access that list if you boot up with a key held down, but I guess you need the FTP software to do that.

If I go straight into a synth from my FTP (via the USB hub) I find I can navigate one patch at a time with the A and C (top & bottom) buttons on the controller. However, the display on the synth stays the same (it doesn't change when I change patches on the FTP). Does the display change on your Integra when you change patches? Or do you change patches a different way?
I don't do anything special. Create an External MIDI track in logic. Assign that midi track to the Integra-7. Record arm the track if it isn't already armed. Play the guitar, the sound should come out of the Integra-7. Done.

I do the same thing with my Moog Slim Phatty, and an older Roland keyboard.

I don't control the external synths with my guitar, I use the guitar as a MIDI input device, instead of a keyboard. I got the Fishman because I can improvise much better on the guitar than on the piano.

As for changing patches, this is what I do...I setup as many parts as I need, let's say 4 for now. Part 1 will be a piano, part 2 is strings, part 3 is motion synth, and part 4 is bass. In Logic, I have 4 external MIDI tracks, one for each part. MIDI channel 1 corresponds with part 1 on the Integra, piano. MIDI Channel 2 is the strings, and so on. When I want to change sounds, I press the arrow down key on the computer keyboard, and I am playing/recording part 2, strings. If I want to jump down to bass, I press the down key 2 more times to get to the 4th external MIDI track I created and start playing.

In Ableton Live, it's kinda the same thing, but changing record enebled MIDI tracks is a bit harder. I have a MIDI foot controller, FCB1010, which helps with a lot of switching/launching/recording. Here's a picture of the live looping setup. This was before I had the Integra, it will be different on my next gig. I will be getting rid of the MIDI keyboard and using the fishman to control the Integra through Ableton.

Old 13th March 2014 | Show parent
  #46
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTheDog ➑️
Hardware mode (no fishman software) FTP Hardware Mode Doc...

PDF in first post
I read the PDF - a lot of it I already had discovered on my own - and a lot of it is over my head, unfortunately (not a midi expert, just a guitar player). Was that written by a third party (not Fishman?) - There are similar directions in the FTP manual, but that is more comprehensive.

I am trying to control a sound module with NO computer, and much of that PDF seems to imply that you are still using the FTP software on a computer, but to drive a hardware synth. That is all well & good, similar to what the next contributor says about using the FTP with Logic to run his Integra. I also have no problems using the FTP to run Sampletank in ProTools, etc. It is simple.

What is valuable in that PDF is the info about what the different keys do on the controller, and how that changes depending an whether you are holding down one of the "D-control" buttons when you power on the controller. I also found that if just turn it on you seem to start at patch #1 of General Midi, and you can scroll through them all.

What I want to find is a way to pre-set the sounds I scroll through. I think that is in the PDF, but it is somewhat complicated to understand. (the example about setting up four patches). The PDF also talks about setting up a list of patches in FTP software for the hardware synth, which I think you might be able to SAVE TO THE CONTROLLER. (there is a button in the software that says "save to controller" in the patch menu). I assume this means the list is in the controller even when the software is not running, but that assumes you have already set up the connection to a specific hardware synth. However, the PDF does not say anything about using "save to controller'.

I am not sure, though, because as I said some of that manual is Greek to me. But I am making progress. It is always tough to be on the leading edge of trying something new. Even when I was at NAMM I talked to both Fishman and iConnect about running a sound module with no computer or software running. To be honest, they didn't really have answers for me. Different people at Fishman had different answers. One said "you still need the software" (which we know is not true, another said "you can do it but you still get the latency" (which I think is partially true, though it is reduced), another said "we are still working on that."

Also - thanks for the link to Vguitar. I was told to go there by someone at the Fishman booth at NAMM. But somehow I missed that document when I did go there before.
Old 13th March 2014
  #47
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
I found a Roland Sound canvas in a dumpster and it still worked, but unfortunately at the time I was homeless and had no place to store it. I also found a MIDI keyboard controller also in the trash at that same time. People just don't realise how good that stuff is and was. It's sad, because people using VSTi's are putting out a lot of conformist sounding crap even though they got more synthesis possibilities than before. Seems like electronic music of the 1990s mainstream was more innovative than modern day mainstream electronic music. But I would say that non-mainstream electronic music is always pretty good but kids today wouldn't know it because they weren't born yet!
Old 13th March 2014 | Show parent
  #48
Lives for gear
 
BobTheDog's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruisemates ➑️
I read the PDF - a lot of it I already had discovered on my own - and a lot of it is over my head, unfortunately (not a midi expert, just a guitar player). Was that written by a third party (not Fishman?) - There are similar directions in the FTP manual, but that is more comprehensive.

I am trying to control a sound module with NO computer, and much of that PDF seems to imply that you are still using the FTP software on a computer, but to drive a hardware synth. That is all well & good, similar to what the next contributor says about using the FTP with Logic to run his Integra. I also have no problems using the FTP to run Sampletank in ProTools, etc. It is simple.

What is valuable in that PDF is the info about what the different keys do on the controller, and how that changes depending an whether you are holding down one of the "D-control" buttons when you power on the controller. I also found that if just turn it on you seem to start at patch #1 of General Midi, and you can scroll through them all.

What I want to find is a way to pre-set the sounds I scroll through. I think that is in the PDF, but it is somewhat complicated to understand. (the example about setting up four patches). The PDF also talks about setting up a list of patches in FTP software for the hardware synth, which I think you might be able to SAVE TO THE CONTROLLER. (there is a button in the software that says "save to controller" in the patch menu). I assume this means the list is in the controller even when the software is not running, but that assumes you have already set up the connection to a specific hardware synth. However, the PDF does not say anything about using "save to controller'.

I am not sure, though, because as I said some of that manual is Greek to me. But I am making progress. It is always tough to be on the leading edge of trying something new. Even when I was at NAMM I talked to both Fishman and iConnect about running a sound module with no computer or software running. To be honest, they didn't really have answers for me. Different people at Fishman had different answers. One said "you still need the software" (which we know is not true, another said "you can do it but you still get the latency" (which I think is partially true, though it is reduced), another said "we are still working on that."

Also - thanks for the link to Vguitar. I was told to go there by someone at the Fishman booth at NAMM. But somehow I missed that document when I did go there before.
It should be possible to set it up as you want, you would need to set up multiple patches in the software, each using a hardware synth with a program change to choose the correct program on the synth. Once this is set up and saved to the pickup then the software would no longer be needed.

I haven't set it up like this before but if I get a chance I will look into it tomorow, otherwise Monday and post details of how to do it here.
Old 25th April 2014 | Show parent
  #49
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Do you know if these devices (Encore Electronics Knobby) can be used to change parametres within some of the previously mentioned sound modules?

Encore Electronics Knobby | Vintage Synth Explorer
Old 25th April 2014 | Show parent
  #50
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Here is the manual for the that unit: http://www.encoreelectronics.com/knobbyuser.pdf
I don't think it will help with the FTP because that requires a USB in put socket for the midi data - that device (above) only has midi in & out (5-pin).

AS the OP here, because I always like to come back and give the solution for a question I ask in a forum - here is how I ended up:

I just wanted to tell the group I got a first generation Motif sound module for $330 on eBay - and it is everything I dreamed of. Not only is it full of sounds, but it can save user patches in a separate bank, in the order I choose AND (best of all) as I navigate through those patches with my guitar-mounted controller the screen on the Motif reflects the change - so I can see what patch I am in without touching the sound module.

Latency is almost zero working with the USB host to 5-pin converter (Kenton) and it synced up with no problems. I no longer remember what I did to the controller in terms of stored hardware sounds because it isn't a factor.

If I hit my right controller button I switch between chromatic to smooth note changing. And if I store a patch with that change (made on the FTP controller) the module remembers it.

This is the way these FTP pickup/controllers should be used live in my opinion. It sets up in seconds and works flawlessly.
Old 27th April 2014 | Show parent
  #51
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cramseur's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruisemates ➑️
Just to be clear - it is common for these midi modules to have USB D-connector OUT like the Farfisa has, but my midi comes out of a standard usb port (same as what would be at the other end of the cable you would plug into that Farfisa).

So - the Farfisa USB does me no good. I looked everywhere for a sound module with the standard USB in - but they didn't make any before this current generation of mondo-expensive modules.

Hence I bought the USB hub (which was over $130 on its own). If all I want is general midi (and there is nothing wrong with that) I can just go 5-pin midi in into the cheap Yamaha child's keyboard I have here at the house for which I paid $150 - that works fine.

But my gut says some of the last generation sound modules from about 1999 are going to sound much better, plus they are programmable so I can make my user pre-sets and put them in order - so then all I have to do is navigate to the first one and go through my set.

Thanks for the suggestion, though.
I was wondering if everyone missed that the Fishman system you have outputs USB, not MIDI. It looks like it was designed to drive software synths in a computer DAW.

If you want to drive most hardware synths, you'll have to convert that USB out of the Fishman to MIDI, somehow.

Most of the current Guitar-to-Midi systems are based off of the Roland 24 pin technology.
Using the GK-2, GK-3 hexaphonic pickup attached to the guitar (or bass) then into a Roland guitar synth (Roland GR-55, GR-33 etc), or into a secondary converter (Roland GI-20 or Axon AX series) THEN into any Midi synth.

Some guitars are built with hex pickups in them (Godin, Brian Moore, Fender Roland Ready Strat). They plug directly into the converter (via 24 pin cable) then into synths via standard 5 pin midi.

There are older guitars that outputted Midi directly...(Casio Pg series , Parker Midifly) but they fell out of favor and are out of production.
Old 27th April 2014 | Show parent
  #52
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BobTheDog's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cramseur ➑️
I was wondering if everyone missed that the Fishman system you have outputs USB, not MIDI. It looks like it was designed to drive software synths in a computer DAW.

If you want to drive most hardware synths, you'll have to convert that USB out of the Fishman to MIDI, somehow.

Most of the current Guitar-to-Midi systems are based off of the Roland 24 pin technology.
Using the GK-2, GK-3 hexaphonic pickup attached to the guitar (or bass) then into a Roland guitar synth (Roland GR-55, GR-33 etc), or into a secondary converter (Roland GI-20 or Axon AX series) THEN into any Midi synth.

Some guitars are built with hex pickups in them (Godin, Brian Moore, Fender Roland Ready Strat). They plug directly into the converter (via 24 pin cable) then into synths via standard 5 pin midi.

There are older guitars that outputted Midi directly...(Casio Pg series , Parker Midifly) but they fell out of favor and are out of production.

Using TriplePlay directly with 5-Pin DIN external MIDI hardware | TripleTalk
Old 28th April 2014 | Show parent
  #53
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Yes - this links to the Kenton USB host 0 which is what I have. used it at a gig last night for the first time and it works great. I made a fast YouTube demo of it:



and

Old 28th April 2014
  #54
Nrt
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I don't think rack mount modules were not an ultimate form of the musical instrument. Today, digital instruments can be tiny, so desktop module is more reasonable.
Old 28th April 2014
  #55
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
i bought a korg 05r/w for 50 bucks, my first rack unit, and boy it sounds like ****. havent used it in a single song yet

if you are willing to spend time programming the archaic interface you could probably make it sing, but that would probably take as much time as recycling enough bottles to buy an integra7

my bet would be something like a rack triton unit
Old 28th April 2014 | Show parent
  #56
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nrt ➑️
I don't think rack mount modules were not an ultimate form of the musical instrument. Today, digital instruments can be tiny, so desktop module is more reasonable.
Yeah - but when I found a first generation Yamaha Motif on eBay for under $350 I knew that was the one for me - But it doesn't matter so much what you use as long as it does the job for you, whether it is rack mount or desktop. I admit the rack mount is a bit unweildy, but it also has me re-thinking my whole guitar rig.

I plugged it into a stereo PA yesterday and some of the patches I had been using just sounded huger than huge - now I know I have to go that way. I may use a stereo PA on stage just for my Fishman, along with my Marshall for live guitar.

But I also realized it would be easier, if using a stereo PA on stage, to also just keep the fishman guitar plugged into it and use some kind of guitar effects module (11-rack, or similar) also plugged into the stereo PA. That way all I have to do is change guitars, not cables, also.

In other words - have a dedicated midi (fishman) guitar; with a amp/cab emulator plugged into a stereo PA along with the stereo sound module. Use that when I want midi, or midi plus guitar (usually just for rhythm).

Then also have my Marshall rig for straight guitar - and not use the PA at all for that. That just seems to be the most versatile and best sounding solution in the long run.
Old 28th April 2014 | Show parent
  #57
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mpresev's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by choond ➑️
Missed that! those E-mu modules are fantastic. I had the xtreme lead and the orbit V2, but they cost $250 each just a few years back. $75 is a great price!
Go for the JV2080 or JV1080 or Korg Triton Rack.

I remember those.. When the ORbit came out, I think everyone of my Electronic Musican friends had one. I owned one in 99/2000.. I traded my Akai phrase sampler for this Orbit V2. I think it's cool.. Then I traded the Orbit for the Yamaha RM1X because I needed a sequencer and at that time in 2000, computers were not as fast as today with the I5 and I7.

You know what? I do want an Xtreme Lead.. I can get one now for 150 on Ebay.. Now, do I need it? no but I'm slutting for it lol.
Old 28th April 2014
  #58
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Are people seriously annoyed in this day and age that they can't find Sound Canvas/GM modules in stores?
Old 29th April 2014
  #59
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
CruiseMate - I use the TriplePlay. Did you try using the Hardware connector in the interface. I have found that the TriplePlay only works as advertised using the included software that ships with it. Definitely, if you want to play any synths with accurate tracking as advertised, it needs to run through the TriplePlay software interface. In the TriplePlay interface, if you scroll down in the patch listings there is a patch named external hardware. I think you can use that to integrate external sound modules. I never tried it but it's there! I prefer to stay in the digital realm. Besides your amp and guitar, you still need to carry hardware. So, the way I see it, a laptop is lighter than a sound module. I'm just saying!!!
Old 29th April 2014 | Show parent
  #60
Lives for gear
 
BobTheDog's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by moderndaydavid ➑️
CruiseMate - I use the TriplePlay. Did you try using the Hardware connector in the interface. I have found that the TriplePlay only works as advertised using the included software that ships with it. Definitely, if you want to play any synths with accurate tracking as advertised, it needs to run through the TriplePlay software interface. In the TriplePlay interface, if you scroll down in the patch listings there is a patch named external hardware. I think you can use that to integrate external sound modules. I never tried it but it's there! I prefer to stay in the digital realm. Besides your amp and guitar, you still need to carry hardware. So, the way I see it, a laptop is lighter than a sound module. I'm just saying!!!
The conversion to midi is done in the pickup not in the software. There us no need to run the software at all apart for initially setting up your presets to store on the pickup.
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