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Eventide Eclipse vs plugins
Old 7th March 2014
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Eventide Eclipse vs plugins

I heard about the Eclipse long ago when I first got into music production. At the time, my virgin ears were touched by this incredible effects processor. I never bought it, but I accumulated a ton of expensive plug-ins over the years. Having soundtoys native bundle, lexicon reverb bundle, and waves verbs, I wonder whether or not the Eclipse is still very relevant. Is it one of those things like with converters? Or does it truly offer something above and beyond the ITB world?
Old 7th March 2014
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stallone ➡️
I heard about the Eclipse long ago when I first got into music production. At the time, my virgin ears were touched by this incredible effects processor. I never bought it, but I accumulated a ton of expensive plug-ins over the years. Having soundtoys native bundle, lexicon reverb bundle, and waves verbs, I wonder whether or not the Eclipse is still very relevant. Is it one of those things like with converters? Or does it truly offer something above and beyond the ITB world?
I have an eclipse. for me vst's can do a lot of what an eclipse does and some things that it can't, BUT I have yet to find a reverb VST that can equal or better the reverbs on it, especially the blackhole.

I have found that I quite like the TAL reverbs a lot but I find them slightly metallic compared to the eventide. There are also other high end VST's out there which can do awesome reverbs so I'm thinking of the Valhalla, Lexicon and Sound Toys. There are many others. I've considered some of these but when you look at the cost of the them vs just buying the hardware eclipse, well I just bought the eclipse.

I primarily use the eventide. Its practically welded to one of my sends.
Old 7th March 2014
  #3
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🎧 10 years
I think Sound Toys was developed by ex Eventide engineers. In all honesty the plugs you have are high quality. I'd shake off the eventide GAS.
Old 7th March 2014
  #4
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tribeofenki's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Some virtual plug-ins can do nice jobs in specific sectors as reverbs, but Eclipse has an unreached integration of different effects.
Only the basic racks from Eventide lack the editors that let you create your own effects on these unrivalled engines.
Old 8th March 2014 | Show parent
  #5
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cixelsyd ➡️
I have an eclipse. for me vst's can do a lot of what an eclipse does and some things that it can't, BUT I have yet to find a reverb VST that can equal or better the reverbs on it, especially the blackhole.

I have found that I quite like the TAL reverbs a lot but I find them slightly metallic compared to the eventide. There are also other high end VST's out there which can do awesome reverbs so I'm thinking of the Valhalla, Lexicon and Sound Toys. There are many others. I've considered some of these but when you look at the cost of the them vs just buying the hardware eclipse, well I just bought the eclipse.

I primarily use the eventide. Its practically welded to one of my sends.
Yes, but you can have as many instances of plug-ins as your processor can handle.
Old 8th March 2014
  #6
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TheBrightSide's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Here's a demo of the Eventide DSP7000, which is very similar to the Eclipse, they even share a lot of the same presets.
You will have a hard time recreating these effects with plugins, especially things like the modulated reverbs and the pitchshifting.

Eventide DSP 7000 with Synth. - YouTube
Old 8th March 2014 | Show parent
  #7
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:Metaphor:'s Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stallone ➡️
Yes, but you can have as many instances of plug-ins as your processor can handle.
Sure, but it costs processing power to do so

(and the time build the complex effect chains, and the poor equivalents of some of the plugins vs. the algos in the eclipse, and...)

Don't get met wrong-- I use plugins too. And no, I do not have an eclipse. But from what I can tell, one place where hardware still trumps software is in multi-effects like this. There's just so many sounds that I only hear from hardware, and in many cases, it sounds much better.

Personally, I use Eventide impulses because I'm poor. Interestingly enough, they sound better than many of my plugins, and sound "like a record" -- the fit the mix-- as soon as I instantiate them.
Old 8th March 2014
  #8
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🎧 10 years
What about the pitch-shifting? How does that compare?
Old 8th March 2014 | Show parent
  #9
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TheBrightSide's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gear_up ➡️
What about the pitch-shifting? How does that compare?
High quality real time pitch shifting uses a lot of DSP resources, so thats where hardware has a big advantage.
Eventide effects often has pitch shifting built into the presets, such as reverb tails that change pitch, or delays etc...
There is rarely just one effect going on with Eventide presets.
Old 8th March 2014 | Show parent
  #10
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by :Metaphor: ➡️
Sure, but it costs processing power to do so

(and the time build the complex effect chains, and the poor equivalents of some of the plugins vs. the algos in the eclipse, and...)

Don't get met wrong-- I use plugins too. And no, I do not have an eclipse. But from what I can tell, one place where hardware still trumps software is in multi-effects like this. There's just so many sounds that I only hear from hardware, and in many cases, it sounds much better.

Personally, I use Eventide impulses because I'm poor. Interestingly enough, they sound better than many of my plugins, and sound "like a record" -- the fit the mix-- as soon as I instantiate them.
Sure, but put in the right hands, those same plugins you use could sound "like a record" too.
Old 8th March 2014 | Show parent
  #11
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stallone ➡️
Sure, but put in the right hands, those same plugins you use could sound "like a record" too.
Man, I don't get it. You asked about the Eventide Eclipse vs plugins. You've been getting some answers. It seems to me like your trying to justify the plugins. I'm sure their awesome. You have 3 of the highest quality reverb plugs that I know of.

If you like the sound of the plugs cool. I use the TAL ones all the time, I also use my eventide. Do you want to get the viewpoints you asked for or do you want start yet another hardware vs software thread?
Old 8th March 2014 | Show parent
  #12
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maisonvague's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cixelsyd ➡️
It seems to me like your trying to justify the plugins.
It sounds that way to me, too.

@Stallone - Just continue using your plugins and forget about the Eclipse. It doesn't sound like it's right for you.

I bought an Eclipse for one simple reason: I thought it sounded fantastic! I probably listened to a hundred demos before making my decision though.

Does it sound better than plugins? I honestly don't know. All I can tell you is that it sounds very good!

Personally, I enjoy working with the hardware and not having to worry about whether or not my computer can handle the real-time DSP. It's also a small relief to be without concern for future OS compatibility, limited authorizations, online user accounts, iLoks, or any of the other hoops you have to jump through with software.

I'm also using patches in my Eclipse that were masterfully programmed by Italo de Angelis. Thoughts like "I wonder if there are plugins out there that are cheaper and sound just as good if not better" never cross my mind while working with the Eclipse.

Basically, hardware vs software is at the root of your question. So, again, I say continue using your plugins, consider the Eclipse irrelevant, be happy, and move on.
Old 8th March 2014
  #13
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🎧 5 years
Didn't mean to come off argumentative, was just looking for a definitive "yes, this unit is AMAZING." After all, it costs quite a bit. I think I got my answer for the most part. From what I gathered here, the unit excels in complexity of effects and should be judged for the sum of its parts. I'm going to do some more research and maybe I might get a used one.
Old 8th March 2014 | Show parent
  #14
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maisonvague's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stallone ➡️
I'm going to do some more research and maybe I might get a used one.
I recommend checking out Italo de Angelis' Eclipse demos. Even if you intend to program your own patches, they can still give you an idea of its potential:

Italo de Angelis
Old 8th March 2014 | Show parent
  #15
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plaid_emu's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague ➡️
I recommend checking out Italo de Angelis' Eclipse demos. Even if you intend to program your own patches, they can still give you an idea of its potential:

Italo de Angelis
I was looking into those several months ago thinking "sure I could go for some new presets". After he told me the price (not listed on the website), I was kinda sticker shocked. Don't get me wrong. Dude has the right to charge whatever he wants for his hard work. I just thought the pricing was a tad unrealistic. I could buy an iPod touch or used iPad along with the new iOS Eclipse editor for what he is charging for presets. I may not have his ears or skills, but I know which route would probably be more fulfilling for me in the long run.
Old 8th March 2014 | Show parent
  #16
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italo de angelis's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by plaid_emu ➡️
I was looking into those several months ago thinking "sure I could go for some new presets". After he told me the price (not listed on the website), I was kinda sticker shocked. Don't get me wrong. Dude has the right to charge whatever he wants for his hard work. I just thought the pricing was a tad unrealistic. I could buy an iPod touch or used iPad along with the new iOS Eclipse editor for what he is charging for presets. I may not have his ears or skills, but I know which route would probably be more fulfilling for me in the long run.

"Dude" is a professional programmer, member of the small team that developed the H7600/H8000 and contributor to Eclipse/DSP7000/7500/Orville factory libraries.
The presets you refer to, which are very popular around the planet, have been created with/on high end gear for testing & listening and include several new techniques not available in the factory libraries (psycho acoustic imaging/old style input stage soft clipping+limiting digital delays/etc.).
Of course you can buy an iPod or a decent bottle of champagne... but you won't buy the knowledge to create those wonders. Let alone... TIME!
These libraries sell by the numbers! The Eclipse Lib, Pt1 (more expensive than the BLUE LIB) is the most sold one I offer.
Considering the experience, knowledge involved in programming this unit... a 3€ per preset is a bargain! If regular programming fees would be applied... you'd have no idea how much more the price would be...
Quality has its price... and I made it definitely cheap!
Old 8th March 2014 | Show parent
  #17
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:Metaphor:'s Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stallone ➡️
Sure, but put in the right hands, those same plugins you use could sound "like a record" too.

Ya know, I can't say that I agree.

I've been an electronic musician for a long time-- at least, long enough to know the difference. I've played with all kinds of plugins. And I've owned hardware effects in the past. I have skills, decent ears, and plenty of technical knowledge of production. I'm certainly no n00b when it comes to sound.

And yet, software effects often don't sound "right". Even after careful tweaking.
For example, I can't think of very many soft choruses or phasers that sound as good as a decent guitar pedal. Sometimes the sweet spot on these plugins is very small too-- hard to get them to behave just right. Sure, I tweak away. Sure I post-eq & compress if needed. Or run in parallel.

Even ITB delays don't compare to a nice HW delay. I can throw on an impulse response from an eventide unit, and just the way the delay lines layer and blend, the way they decay yet keep their crisp clarity is another league away from what I hear on just about every delay plug I've used. There are certainly some great sounding plugins, but the ones I like are usually very cpu expensive and still don't add up to the same quality & character of even mid-grade hardware, which uses ZERO cpu.

There are competitive exceptions in some areas (reverbs *ahem, valhalla* are an example of a closer gap between HW & Plugs...)....but by & large the baseline quality is not the same, IMO.

Sure, I can add layers of effects until it's a mess and you can't tell so much. Sure I can add EQ's & Compression & Filters to try to get them to sit, blend, or pop better.

But all that adds up to more work, when, I could simply run my sounds through the right box, and it'll sound on point immediately.

That was the epiphany and humbling thing I learned about HW-- sounding "like a record" happens effortlessly when you're using the right gear. I know it sounds like a cop out, but after years of putting in time trying to get my effects to sound pro using software, it was an epiphany to hear the difference when using real, physical gear.

For example, I have a buddy who knows ZERO about mixing. No idea at all how to EQ something, or compress. But he makes all his gear with an 808, an ASR-10, a Juno 106, and a space echo. And his mixes sound GREAT. They sound musical. They have weight. They sit well together. Everything gels and blends and bumps in all the right ways.

And then, comparing that to all the dudes I know who tweak away and work HARD just to get the sound to sit right with their ITB mixes...

I'm not saying that software sucks or sounds bad. It doesn't. I actually love it. Reaktor sounds great, even if it doesn't match the quality of an eventide HW unit. I mean, even eventide themselves can't make their software to match the quality of their hardware....

What I am saying though, is that there is a definite difference.

Some SW is fairly competitive. Some isn't yet. And I think that multi effects is an example of a place where SW developers need to put more attention and time to get the sound up to speed. Some guys are making great breakthroughs in that department, but on the whole, it's not the same level of quality yet.

IMO, of course
Old 9th March 2014
  #18
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rids's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I have no Eclipse, but I do have a H3000. I wouldn't slight either Eventide or high quality software plugins, I think they both sound great (though some plugins don't). However….

Quote:
Originally Posted by :Metaphor: ➡️
Some SW is fairly competitive. Some isn't yet. And I think that multi effects is an example of a place where SW developers need to put more attention and time to get the sound up to speed. Some guys are making great breakthroughs in that department, but on the whole, it's not the same level of quality yet.

IMO, of course
I do agree with this. I don't think software is at the same level of multi effect integration. Layering plugins can help though. The Eventide is a different experience also. It is it's own organism. The only thing I want is that there would be software editors for them, because that's what I like about plugins, you can edit to your heart's content. Not a fan of editing on hardware front panels. Wish so many people wouldn't be content using presets and Eventide would address this.
Old 9th March 2014
  #19
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
....yes...it's all the question of the combination....simple as that....reveb before or after a delay?...parralell?...though the pitchshifter...?...what's the chain here...
apart from the basic graceness of THE eventide sound it's the know how to patch and combine to make it shine...

so one rack unit eclipse can beat a lot of plug ins...but don't blame them for beeing just that one thing....if you don't think in layers the eclipse will be always more instant beauty....

see ALL your fx plug ins as ONE multieffekt...
Old 9th March 2014 | Show parent
  #20
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plaid_emu's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis ➡️
"Dude" is a professional programmer, member of the small team that developed the H7600/H8000 and contributor to Eclipse/DSP7000/7500/Orville factory libraries.
The presets you refer to, which are very popular around the planet, have been created with/on high end gear for testing & listening and include several new techniques not available in the factory libraries (psycho acoustic imaging/old style input stage soft clipping+limiting digital delays/etc.).
Of course you can buy an iPod or a decent bottle of champagne... but you won't buy the knowledge to create those wonders. Let alone... TIME!
These libraries sell by the numbers! The Eclipse Lib, Pt1 (more expensive than the BLUE LIB) is the most sold one I offer.
Considering the experience, knowledge involved in programming this unit... a 3€ per preset is a bargain! If regular programming fees would be applied... you'd have no idea how much more the price would be...
Quality has its price... and I made it definitely cheap!
Yes. as I said, I don't have your skills when it comes to programming. I have an idea though.

Next time you're stateside, send me a PM and I'll make you dinner in exchange for your presets. After all, my expertise in cooking lamb loin chops and smoking salmon are unrivaled. There are certainly people who would pay $250+ for a three course meal prepared by your's truly. Even though the ingredients only cost $25, it's a bargain when you take into consideration the care and technique applied. It works out to maybe $3 per bite.
Old 9th March 2014 | Show parent
  #21
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italo de angelis's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by plaid_emu ➡️
Yes. as I said, I don't have your skills when it comes to programming. I have an idea though.

Next time you're stateside, send me a PM and I'll make you dinner in exchange for your presets. After all, my expertise in cooking lamb loin chops and smoking salmon are unrivaled. There are certainly people who would pay $250+ for a three course meal prepared by your's truly. Even though the ingredients only cost $25, it's a bargain when you take into consideration the care and technique applied. It works out to maybe $3 per bite.
Not my fault if YOUR dollar isn't much worth these days.
Maybe time to stop trying "exporting democracy" and start taking care of real problems home.
Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #22
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plaid_emu's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis ➡️
Not my fault if YOUR dollar isn't much worth these days.
Maybe time to stop trying "exporting democracy" and start taking care of real problems home.
Oh, c'mon bro. Chill.

Like I said, you have the right to charge whatever you want for your hard work and skills. I also have the right to say your business model isn't very attractive to me.

Don't go dragging my illegitimate, criminal government and their crooked banking system into this. They might not be as forgiving as I am. heh

Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #23
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ionian's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by plaid_emu ➡️

Don't go dragging my illegitimate, criminal government and their crooked banking system into this. They might not be as forgiving as I am. heh

I'm only popping in as an Italian American to say, if you think our government is illegitimate and criminal, you obviously don't know Italy too well!

heh

Ok, back to your regularly scheduled program, "Bartering for Presets".
Old 10th March 2014
  #24
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Kindred's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I've owned the Eclipse and the H8000FW in the past and now have the Blackhole plugin. My feeling is that I can get 95% of the sound of an Eclipse with the plugin, for a fraction of the cost. It is therefore down to the individual whether they have the inclination to pay thousand(s) to get that last 5%...
Old 10th March 2014
  #25
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Kindred's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Double Post - damn "gateway timeout"!

Last edited by Kindred; 10th March 2014 at 01:52 AM.. Reason: DP
Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #26
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TheBrightSide's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian ➡️

Ok, back to your regularly scheduled program, "Bartering for Presets".
I'm quite good around the garden, so I will mow your lawn for some well programmed presets.

Actually the presets might sound expensive as a package, but when you break it down to 3 notes per preset, it's quite reasonable considering the work that goes into them.
I mean, looking at the Vsig editor gives me a headache!

Old 10th March 2014
  #27
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Are there any particular Eclipse presets that really stand out for people? I've got an Eclipse sitting here, but I haven't turned it on yet (keeping busy with other stuff), so I'd love to hear what people think are the highlights of this box.
Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #28
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TheBrightSide's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kindred ➡️
I've owned the Eclipse and the H8000FW in the past and now have the Blackhole plugin. My feeling is that I can get 95% of the sound of an Eclipse with the plugin, for a fraction of the cost. It is therefore down to the individual whether they have the inclination to pay thousand(s) to get that last 5%...
I've got Black Hole on the 7000, but often go to Valhalla Shimmer ($50) to do basically the same thing.
But that is only a fraction of what the Eventide does, and I am yet to find plugins that will do the rest of it.
Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #29
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Kindred's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBrightSide ➡️
I've got Black Hole on the 7000, but often go to Valhalla Shimmer ($50) to do basically the same thing.
But that is only a fraction of what the Eventide does, and I am yet to find plugins that will do the rest of it.
As a massive Ubermod fan I might have to try that also. Grabbing Shimmer demo now...
Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #30
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TheBrightSide's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kindred ➡️
As a massive Ubermod fan I might have to try that also. Grabbing Shimmer demo now...
It's probably my favourite plugin.
Very simple layout, but playing with the size/feedback/diffusion does some really cool things.
And the CPU hit is unnoticable.
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