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Camel Audio Alchemy
Old 4th March 2014
  #1
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Camel Audio Alchemy

Hi,

bought this powerful synth during last sale and I enjoy programming it alot. However, like most other Spectrasonics's Fans waiting for their Omni, I'd love to know if there is any futhure plan of Alchemy.

I recalled that both of the above vsts released in the same year (2009?) and didn't touch version 2. Again, like DCAM which sometimes discount @$99, I am afraid that Alchemy will not have any futher development like DCAM......

Any news?

Regards!
Piggy915
Old 4th March 2014
  #2
Lives for gear
 
cryophonik's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Alchemy 2 has been in the works for some time. Not sure what the current ETA is, but there are plenty of discussions about it on their KVR subforum.
Old 4th March 2014 | Show parent
  #3
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cryophonik ➑️
Alchemy 2 has been in the works for some time. Not sure what the current ETA is, but there are plenty of discussions about it on their KVR subforum.
Oh really, tks for your info.
Old 4th March 2014
  #4
Lives for gear
 
charlieclouser's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I met with the developers of Alchemy at the NAMM show and had a long conversation with them about its strengths and weaknesses, and areas to address in future updates. I've got no real insider information other than my impression that the product was doing well for them and had a bright future ahead. I use it frequently as a sample mangler / granulator and it's a beast. I put it up there with Omnisphere - it's definitely a first-class product.
Old 4th March 2014
  #5
Lives for gear
 
gremlin moon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
IIRC they said they were working on improving the sound engine for v2. That could mean they are working on a "high end" filter model (a la Diva). That would allow them to update not only Alchemy but Camel Space and Phat as well.
Old 4th March 2014
  #6
Lives for gear
 
EDGEK8D's Avatar
Ya know I had the free Alchemy Player thing forever and never used it. I had no idea what Alchemy was capable of until I purchased the whole thing after watching a video about it over the Holiday sale. That's kind of bad marketing. My opinion of it based upon some samples and the performance pads was not that great. They should really consider changing the demo piece.

I'm very excited to be learning things about granualar synthesis. Its a refreshing way of working with samples and audio files.

As a straight VA, it's not that bad either. And I love that I can use an oscillator for getting something weird going with granular, and then make another patch on top of it with the VA waveforms.

Looking forward to the upcoming release then.
Old 4th March 2014
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Plaeground's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Alchemy is one of my favorites, I'm lookin forward to an update.
Old 5th March 2014
  #8
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Fxpansion has really lost me - I've got dcam and giest both of which have seen 0 further development. See bfd3 for their business model (and some degree guru death and giest birth - I bought guru too..,,).
I think alchemy will be further developed - I hope they work on the ui - it's bad 80s videogame to me anyways
But alchemy seems to be the companies platform Nd they've invested a lot in the alchemy name/brand so I'd say yes - don't know what they're going to add - it's crazy powerful as is
Old 5th March 2014
  #9
Lives for gear
 
LiveFromKyoto's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Alchemy's base VA sound is passable but not amazing - though it is very capable with as many modulation/sound source options as anything out there. But once you start feeding it samples, it's incredible. My favourite software synth.
Old 5th March 2014
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I love this thing ... the Himalaya vintage pack alone gives me sounds that i've been looking for for years on any number of hardware and software synths, but there is so much more to this. As everyone always says, it's how it sounds to you in the end and I have way too many hardware and software toys, but this is pretty much at the top of my list as a synth. Sublime.
Old 5th March 2014 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogma ➑️
Fxpansion has really lost me - I've got dcam and giest both of which have seen 0 further development. See bfd3 for their business model (and some degree guru death and giest birth - I bought guru too..,,).
I think alchemy will be further developed - I hope they work on the ui - it's bad 80s videogame to me anyways
But alchemy seems to be the companies platform Nd they've invested a lot in the alchemy name/brand so I'd say yes - don't know what they're going to add - it's crazy powerful as is
me on the same boat. Very disappointed with the "no-release-for > year" of DCAM. I bought it more than a year ago ($99) but whenever I tried to make my own patches, CPU ........ Giving up ....

I love Alchemy, it is a very creative VA/sampler machine. And I agree with you that the UI is not that "pro" looking. But can we find some skins for it? BTW, I am still learning the Gran. engine.
Old 5th March 2014
  #12
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
One thing I would really like to see Camel Audio do is to make Alchemy run completely stand alone similar to Absynth and Audiomulch. I hate using it with a DAW.
Old 6th March 2014 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by piggy915 ➑️
me on the same boat. Very disappointed with the "no-release-for > year" of DCAM. I bought it more than a year ago ($99) but whenever I tried to make my own patches, CPU ........ Giving up ....
I'm giving up on DCAM. FXpansion is just dead silent on it, and won't respond to questions about updates. It's apparently abandonware.
Old 6th March 2014
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Synth Buddha's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I have zero respect for FXpansion. They seem to not give a flying **** about their DCAM customers, and yet they'll charge them 50$ to transfer the product to someone else. That's a pretty hefty sum for a product that regularly sells for $99 brand new.

It's disgusting. I'm much happier to support companies like U-He, who not only make products that are clearly much better value for money, but also treat their customers REALLY well - ALL the time.

But why the talk about FXpansion anyway - isn't this a thread about Alchemy? I like Alchemy. It's a fun, evocative synth. I'm not always super pleased with the sound quality of what comes out of it, but all in all it's good. Looking forward to version 2, which I hope comes with better filters and a resynthesis engine that sounds better.
Old 6th March 2014
  #15
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adydub's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
As DCAM is a completely functional good quality product that doesn't really need any further developments, I think people are getting a bit over excited about things - it served a purpose when I brought it, still does now. No problem.

Back to Alchemy - yes, absolutely one of my favourite synths - hard or soft. One of the best implementations of a modulation matrix on anything, and still my go to device for sample based creative sound design. It absolutely thrives on characterful samples - I've found feeding it with clean, well recorded source material is never as satisfying.

While the raw sound of the VA oscillators and the filters is obviously behind DCAM or Diva, I still prefer it in many ways as an instrument as it's so fast/deep to program.

The side I've always felt a bit let down by is the additive - it just seems to be a battle to use the editor for anything more than rudimentary tweaks.

I'm really looking forward to the next incarnation.
Old 6th March 2014 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by adydub ➑️
As DCAM is a completely functional good quality product that doesn't really need any further developments, I think people are getting a bit over excited about things - it served a purpose when I brought it, still does now. No problem.
Agreed, DCAM still sounds as good as it did on day one. It's a well rounded product that they can really only replace with something new rather than update it (imho).

Having said that, wasn't Andrew (Cytomic) the lead dev on that synth who now does his own thing outside FXpansion? Any ongoing incremental development/update to DCAM in that case might prove difficult.
Old 6th March 2014 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Guru
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gremlin moon ➑️
That could mean they are working on a "high end" filter model (a la Diva).
They've already updated Alchemy with a lot of new filter modes that were all borrowed from Cytomic.
Old 6th March 2014 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
EDGEK8D's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon ➑️
They've already updated Alchemy with a lot of new filter modes that were all borrowed from Cytomic.
I'm relatively new to Alchemy. Which filters are those? The ones labelled as HQ? I can hear a difference immediately if you swap out, say the XP-LP4 for the XP-LP4 HQ.

I still struggle with using the additive and granular features. Things just sound odd to me when I have a sample in one of those modes. I can see how some of the presets make use of this to create atmospheres and soundscapes. I try to take samples from the Alchemy libraries I have and come up with something of my own, but I'm not getting good results. I adjust grain size and number of grains to see if I can get it dialed in, but it seems to just sound better in regular sample mode. Perhaps I should try working with samples of my own?

Anyone know of any good sources for learning more about the principles of additive and granular?
Old 6th March 2014
  #19
Gear Guru
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Yup, HQ ones.
Old 6th March 2014 | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
gremlin moon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon ➑️
They've already updated Alchemy with a lot of new filter modes that were all borrowed from Cytomic.
I blame this forum for not knowing about it! I've have not really revisited the filters in a va context since the initial release and have mainly been using Alchemy for "post-processing." Besides demoing Kaivo this weekend I'll be checking that out as well.
Old 6th March 2014
  #21
Lives for gear
 
djanthonyw's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Why do people buy software with the expectation that they are entitled to a bunch of updates? Bug fixes, I can understand, but when you buy something you don't do so based on what is not there yet. Imagine if people who bought hardware did the same thing...
Old 7th March 2014
  #22
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
There are a lot of bugs that need to be addressed, as FXpansion has stated themselves. It's been 2 years since there's been an update. The fact of the matter is, they're not even fixing the bugs. They're just letting the users hang.

Moreover, some of us purchased their product because they promised certain features that would continue to make the product useful. They haven't delivered on those either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogma ➑️
Fxpansion has really lost me - I've got dcam and giest both of which have seen 0 further development. See bfd3 for their business model (and some degree guru death and giest birth - I bought guru too..,,).
No, we got AAX64 support in Geist back in December. And BFD3 is still just about my favorite tool. It's only SynthSquad where I'm disappointed, and mostly because I took the time to learn it well enough to make it useful.

But yeah, I'm looking for a new primary synth to replace SynthSquad, and am considering Alchemy.
Old 7th March 2014
  #23
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by piggy915 ➑️
Hi,

bought this powerful synth during last sale and I enjoy programming it alot.
A lot is two words, my nigga.
Old 7th March 2014 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synth Buddha ➑️
I have zero respect for FXpansion. They seem to not give a flying **** about their DCAM customers, and yet they'll charge them 50$ to transfer the product to someone else. That's a pretty hefty sum for a product that regularly sells for $99 brand new.

It's disgusting. I'm much happier to support companies like U-He, who not only make products that are clearly much better value for money, but also treat their customers REALLY well - ALL the time.

But why the talk about FXpansion anyway - isn't this a thread about Alchemy? I like Alchemy. It's a fun, evocative synth. I'm not always super pleased with the sound quality of what comes out of it, but all in all it's good. Looking forward to version 2, which I hope comes with better filters and a resynthesis engine that sounds better.
I do have some expectations on Alchemy in terms of major upgrade. And this is the only "Synth", flagship synth of their company. They can't keep selling sound banks which make few profit. But I am not sure why the dev. progress is like that slow.

DCAM which is only part of FXpansion's product line and they can make profit from others. But very sad that once I bought it, I didn't receive any update since then.
Old 7th March 2014 | Show parent
  #25
Gear Addict
 
Astronaut FX's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Necron 99 ➑️
One thing I would really like to see Camel Audio do is to make Alchemy run completely stand alone similar to Absynth and Audiomulch. I hate using it with a DAW.
Yes please, stand alone please.

Please?
Old 7th March 2014 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by fix3r ➑️
Agreed, DCAM still sounds as good as it did on day one. It's a well rounded product that they can really only replace with something new rather than update it (imho).

Having said that, wasn't Andrew (Cytomic) the lead dev on that synth who now does his own thing outside FXpansion? Any ongoing incremental development/update to DCAM in that case might prove difficult.
I know I am a bit harsh.... But as a IT Release management guy.... I think DCAM should rewrite some of the codes in order to reduce the CPU loads. Having said that, in KVR, I saw some users (not too many though) wish to have a better GUI
Old 7th March 2014 | Show parent
  #27
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by djanthonyw ➑️
Why do people buy software with the expectation that they are entitled to a bunch of updates? Bug fixes, I can understand, but when you buy something you don't do so based on what is not there yet. Imagine if people who bought hardware did the same thing...
No offense.

To some ppl, IOS 7 is pretty nice but why APPLE still do a lot of features update?

This is the beauty of implementing a VA synth in a software form.
Besides bug fixing, many users ask for feature enhancement and not to mention to modify the GUI or something in order to make the work flow more smooth etc ....
Old 7th March 2014 | Show parent
  #28
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Necron 99 ➑️
One thing I would really like to see Camel Audio do is to make Alchemy run completely stand alone similar to Absynth and Audiomulch. I hate using it with a DAW.
When I want to use it standalone I run it in SAVIHost, works great. Like that any VSTi can be stand alone.
Old 7th March 2014 | Show parent
  #29
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by piggy915 ➑️
I do have some expectations on Alchemy in terms of major upgrade. And this is the only "Synth", flagship synth of their company. They can't keep selling sound banks which make few profit. But I am not sure why the dev. progress is like that slow.

DCAM which is only part of FXpansion's product line and they can make profit from others. But very sad that once I bought it, I didn't receive any update since then.
What do you know about the profit on their sound banks? I think many Alchemy owners have bought at least one soundbank and I guess producing a new soundbank it a lot cheaper than producing a new synth, don't you think?
Old 7th March 2014 | Show parent
  #30
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by piggy915 ➑️
I know I am a bit harsh.... But as a IT Release management guy.... I think DCAM should rewrite some of the codes in order to reduce the CPU loads. Having said that, in KVR, I saw some users (not too many though) wish to have a better GUI
I agree with the GUI remark - I can actually imagine a "soft" update where they bring the UI more in line with Bloom/Geist/BFD3 aesthetics. DCAM sticks like a sore thumb as it is right now.

About further optimisations (to reduce the CPU load) and audio engine updates, I'm not very optimistic (and I'm saying this as a looong time programmer). I'd be the happiest man in the world to be proven wrong, but you don't simply "optimize" the DSP code that someone else designed. The best FXpansion could do is to get Andy Cytomic to refresh/add new filters and oscillators. I really don't know if they have in-house expertise in analogue circuit modelling.
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