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How likely is it for Roland to do a "Korg ms20" with Juno 106?
Old 29th January 2013
  #151
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xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
...or this infamous one:





no...roland did not see acid-house or techno coming when they built these...
i still praise the lord they invented them!
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #152
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laikenf's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult ➡️
the sad idea you have about roland products tells more about you than about roland
Dude you REALLY need to get a hold of yourself.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #153
Gear Nut
 
jasonM's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatsynth ➡️
I live in Europe too, so I do not work for them. Just trying to help you. Send them an e-mail if you are worried about dying voice-chips. You might be surprised to what they can do for you. Amazing internal mods available.
just joking , thanks for the tip, i will keep em in mind.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #154
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by laikenf ➡️
Dude you REALLY need to get a hold of yourself.
nope.. you guys need to down szise your egos a bit.. Roland designed the future.. you are plain nothings history wont mention even in the tiniest side note.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #155
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laikenf's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult ➡️
nope.. you guys need to down szise your egos a bit.. Roland designed the future.. you are plain nothings history wont mention even in the tiniest side note.
Old 29th January 2013
  #156
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xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
audio i'm starting to think you've really earned the "audioinsult" title on GS.. relax mate, you're taking this stuff waaay too seriously.. i perfectly understand how advanced and revolutionary the x0x units were, and still are in many ways.. that is why i own them. chord memory on my alpha is brilliant, clockable step sequencers on 101 & JX3p: awesome. 909 sequencer: top notch. 808 with fills a/b: the bomb. 303: slide legato rest accents etc: unbeatable. believe me i know those engineers came up with some incredible think out the box ideas, and they probably deserve a technical grammy for their achievements. but that doesn't change the sad fact that most of those units were considered failures after release and were not built with edm musicians in mind (hell edm barely existed) just listening to the presets on my JX/Juno is proof, or try reading the 303/101 manuals for some examples of what roland originally had in mind for those.. the above advertising really speaks for itself (but that doesn't take away how great i think those instruments are)
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #157
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laikenf's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult ➡️
dont make such a surprised face.. use the self deflate button you ve build in


Better?... OK so what are we discussing here?... Ah yes, Roland; I was wondering if anyone noticed how Roland synths architecture lent itself pretty well for creating acoustic instrument emulations, which leads me to believe that they have always aimed to achieve good emulation be it digital or analog; you wanna comment on this? anybody?...
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #158
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🎧 10 years
lets look at the evolution of Roland drum machines.

TR-808 > TR-909 > TR-626 > R5

can you not see the pattern? things started off very mechanical and get a lot more realistic.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #159
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laikenf's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds ➡️
lets look at the evolution of Roland drum machines.

TR-808 > TR-909 > TR-626 > R5

can you not see the pattern? things started off very mechanical and get a lot more realistic.
All the way up to the V-Drums, which IMHO, are the best hardware acoustic drum emulation sets on the market right now.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #160
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by laikenf ➡️
All the way up to the V-Drums, which IMHO, are the best hardware acoustic drum emulation sets on the market right now.
exactly. it's so obvious! the evidence is there for everyone to see but you still get some people blinded by faith.
Old 29th January 2013
  #161
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dlmorley's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
With Roland, they made incredible machines. My main sampler for years was the Roland S-750. Still one of the best sounding samplers. Then the R880 reverb was my first high end reverb. Still in my rack and still a great unit. I got both of those new and paid a lot...
They took their time to get it right. Not the first but some of the best.
nobody can say those were designed for anything other than the pro user, but they weren't "new" in concept.
My main sequencer was the MC500 for a while. I wanted an ASQ10 but couldn't afford one.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #162
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xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
<MOD SNIP>


Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult ➡️
:
What roland had in mind was to build universal music composers.. thanks god the units wasnt targeted toward edm morons.
i think you forgot about the MC303/808/909 Grooveboxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult ➡️
:
And they only had simple presets to allow the users to write own sounds and music.. they assumed users that would like to do that..
you are equally wrong here, the JX & Alpha series as well as the MKS racks didn't have hardly any editing capabilities, they were mostly preset machines made to compete with the biggest selling unit during those years the DX7. the focus wasn't at all on making your own sounds. Roland expanded into this territory in the 90's with the endless JV rompler series..
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #163
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds ➡️
lets look at the evolution of Roland drum machines.

TR-808 > TR-909 > TR-626 > R5

can you not see the pattern? things started off very mechanical and get a lot more realistic.
mechanical?


people dont understand that the runing light was just the editor for the realtime tap input. that a graphical editor only makes sense with a realtime input..otherwise its slowing things down not speeding writing up..

The actual bassbot 303 clone shows that this simple basis of the Roland Sequencer design is still not understood..-

All Roland emus in hard and software screw with the tap input..
Does it need more prove for the brilliance of the Roland designers ? their initial 30 old design is still unmatched and all max or reaktor step sequencers plainly primitive versus a 303 or 606... Rather sad
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #164
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Xanax you speak the truth.

It is not at all racist to say that to a large extent the young EDM crowd misunderstand the cutural differences between the Japanese who make these things, and the westerners who use abuse them - its just fact.

The whole ethos has been realsim, as well as newly imagined futuristic sounds - thats why osciallators go from 'phat' to thin. I.e from the ugly buzzy sound of early VCO's to the later refined DCO's that allow you to produce strings that almost sound like a real orchestra in the last run of analogs, the JX's. That was considered an ADVANCE in engineering.

The Japanese love the idea of the ultimate band in a box.




But we just continually laugh at the JP80's, with its wedding band aesthtic and marimba trills - so whose taking the mick?
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #165
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax ➡️
"the german version was highly sophisticated dada art."
I don't think that was intended as praise for the German version, though.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #166
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laikenf's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult ➡️
mechanical?


people dont understand that the runing light was just the editor for the realtime tap input. that a graphical editor only makes sense with a realtime input..otherwise its slowing things down not speeding writing up..

The actual bassbot 303 clone shows that this simple basis of the Roland Sequencer design is still not understood..-

All Roland emus in hard and software screw with the tap input..
Does it need more prove for the brilliance of the Roland designers ? their initial 30 old design is still unmatched and all max or reaktor step sequencers plainly primitive versus a 303 or 606... Rather sad
Indeed; but what about sound, or the generation thereof?. When it comes to sound things just got more realistic as time passed, as new technologies where being explored. You see the problem I have with Roland (and Yamaha for that matter) nowadays is that, aside from a few product lines, they hardly cater to pro musicians anymore; In some ways, they have become kind of what Casio became come the 90s (again, save for a few product lines).
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #167
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🎧 5 years
^^^^ 'cos famous people NEVER endorse products they dont entirley belive in do they !!!
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #168
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xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer ➡️
I don't think that was intended as praise for the German version, though.
i'm pretty sure all the manuals were the same poorly translated mess.. they are amusing none the less and my point was simply that the examples they gave were indeed to emulate real life instruments:




Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult ➡️
And even knowing that you claim that picture to be prove for roland only having the hobby home organ guy i mind?

tsss.. i ve enough.. get an upgrade
that is the false assumption you made. again i was just trying to prove roland units were made as real-life instrument substitute/companions whereas edm artists gave them a complete other meaning.. or do you believe roland engineers had crytstal balls in their hands that could predict acid house and such?
Old 29th January 2013
  #169
tomcc
Guest
I thought the music instrument division of Roland was subsidised by their Print machine divison. Surely they dont make money from their music instruments? All their previous "Hits " were just by luck.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #170
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax ➡️


i think you forgot about the MC303/808/909 Grooveboxes .
we talk about the great times of roland prior to these machines..

you claim theese greatness was accidental.. What the design disproves in itself..

great design is never accidental..

Also their 1980´s "We<design the future" slogan shows that Roland had an agenda like apple in theese times.. a vision.. a politics..


And you see them consrequently reaching out in all areas of music production.. especially the pro sector..

The Dimension D a lucky accident? right.. a very lucky one...
Old 29th January 2013
  #171
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xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
well i'm going to let you argue out this one by yourself while i hit the studio and actually make music with these accidents/future time machines instead of arguing about their origins lol.. tschüssi
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #172
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer ➡️
I don't think that was intended as praise for the German version, though.
the translation was a bad joke...or a good one.. Roland made us laugh a lot and was our teacher to better try without manuals.. needed me almost a decade to find out that the american companies manuals from sci or oberheim make really sense and hold usefull info...

but up to today i keep the tradition that i do a track first with new gear before i touch the manual..and when this dont works out i get rid of the machine again..

there is no jomox drum machine in my studio because of that for example..
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #173
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AnalogGuy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Audioconsult's argument is like saying Hammond created their organs with rock music in their minds.

Hammond organs were originally created to be nothing more than just portable alternatives of pipe organs for the churches... and look what happened when different people used it in their own ways.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #174
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by laikenf ➡️
Dude you REALLY need to get a hold of yourself.
On the positive side, he is a very accurate barometer of all things totally the opposite of reality. He has a gift for that!

Alistair
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #175
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volumetrik's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax ➡️
but that doesn't change the sad fact that most of those units were considered failures after release and were not built with edm musicians in mind (hell edm barely existed) just listening to the presets on my JX/Juno is proof, or try reading the 303/101 manuals for some examples of what roland originally had in mind for those.. the above advertising really speaks for itself (but that doesn't take away how great i think those instruments are)
Yeah but are saying these things are failures in 2013? You sound like because these instruments were not popular at the time and now the most sought after and have a whole community behind them Roland still shouldn't make them just because they were never intended for edm.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #176
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
I think you miss the point Mr Audio...

Rolands greatness is not and was not accidental.

The use and abuse of machines in acid and house music was, and for some reason round these parts thats the ONLY music that matters. Simple repetative basslines and and sampling other peoples ****.
The earth revolves around this apparently - oh and it cant be done on a computer either - such is the apparent complexity of it!

Everytime somebody else mentions any other possible market for these things it is met with derision. What about the many thousands of people that can enjoy playing the piano repetoire at home withtout any need for tuning or the weight? People who play Jazz, or like to use solo *** OMG*** pre sets in bands? Or play in churches, clubs,theatres etc. I guess these are all nobodies.

When they try to cater for this market giving fantastic sounding replications of the sounds people want, its nothing again but laughter and tears becasue - OMG - they dont sound EXACTLY, i.e 100% the same, and any 0.001 difference renders electronic music impossible.

Same story with software. It is a pathetic first world none problem.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #177
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laikenf's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogGuy ➡️
Audioconsult's argument is like saying Hammond created their organs with rock music in their minds.

Hammond organs were originally created to be nothing more than just portable alternatives of pipe organs for the churches... and look what happened when different people used it in their own ways.
Heroin was created to get people off Morphine........ OK not the best example
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #178
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax ➡️
i'm pretty sure all the manuals were the same poorly translated mess.. they are amusing none the less and my point was simply that the examples they gave were indeed to emulate real life instruments:

sure.. its called synthesis... and what kind of sound would you try to sythezise with a one oscillator synth? obviously not a dubstep wobble bass in 1982.

but this examples was there to teach synthesis.. otherwise they ould have build a preset organ...Roland was surely aware of what they are doing and what kind of sytheziser music was made around the world in the late 70´s and early 80´s..

Seems that you are not aware of a pre 90´s electronic music.. but there was plenty..
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #179
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Sure, synthesis, and the ability to have an unlimited pallete of sound is part of the design. But there is no planning for what this is used for. What they have given you instead of presets is the full 'mathematical' model for you to use alter at your whim.

But given that you cant deny that realism was still the major goal driving the engineering. Thats why the DX7 knocked Roland of the throne. Today it seams ridiculous, but the woodwind and piano sounds - bread and butter instruments, were a huge leap, not perhaps in sample like realism, but it capturing important aspects of real instruments like the way sounds were modulated in time.

Next of course came PCM and sampling, and a gradual diminishing number of knobs and the importance of being able to edit. Given a great piano, strings organs in a box, why do you need to have acess to the synthesis itself?

Of course for every M1 piano, you have fantasia, so 'pure' unfettered creative synthesis was ever present, but its hard to deny that it was understanding exactly what makes a piano sound like it does, and how to instantiate this mathematics that in electronics, brought about the advances we see - perhaps to the detriment of electronic experamenatalists who always complained, and continue to complain about the decreasing and more difficult access to parameters!
Old 29th January 2013
  #180
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ksandvik's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Roland had to follow Yamaha and its best selling DX7 and design D50... Not exactly a follow-up to Jupiters and Junos.
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