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Who is Lil' Louis? (Just wow!)
Old 27th January 2013
  #31
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xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveFromKyoto ➡️
Nah, he accepted the Air Canada flight, by his own words and by getting on it he provided consent. The United argument wouldn't wash.

Nor can he not show up to an event, lie about it, and then demand the organizers put together another tour for him after he already screwed over 3 long planned events for them; not if he has no proof that he even tried to get there. Even if he wanted to go the new tour route, he'd still have to return the money or agree to new terms. He can't just keep it and hold them hostage if they don't give him what he wants.
i'm not trying to take sides here, just my observations based on the actual email exchange. the stuff written in between seems to make some pretty bias assessments probably due to the current climate. i'm trying to be objective here: why would louis deliberately not show up and lie about the whole baggage thing? did his alarm clock not wake him up that day? i seriously doubt that. you don't build a 38 year career by not showing up at gigs and doing 419 type scams. that being said some kind of agreement needs to be settled over this fiasco..
Old 27th January 2013
  #32
WDM
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🎧 10 years
Did I miss the actual contract text that should be signed by both parties before any “booking/money transfer/boarding the plane” should happen?

The existence of such contract was mentioned few times through EMails.
Sh1t happens. That's why we need those contracts got signed. The signed contract should resolve all those issues. The insurance... etc.

I’ve been personally affected by snow storm few years back, as my flight was canceled just because the plane couldn’t make it from the storm area. All other flights were completely booked even before storm happen.
So, I know how that feels sitting “at the gate” for 16 hours straight, and that ‘s after sleepless night. They rebooking you every hour, on every next flight, in case someone won’t show up. The irony is: everybody show up.

And you can’t leave the gate because you went through security check, and that takes about two hours to get though again.

I mean the situation like this is a complete nightmare. I’ve seen, at least 10 business people have canceled their business trips. They just go home, period.

It’s not that simple like “you return me my money back because you didn’t make it and I don’t want you anymore”. WFH?
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #33
msl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax ➡️
fwiw i dont see it like that. louis made his demands clear: direct flight on united. they didn't listen and look what happened. the real issue seems to be that louis wants to reschedule the tour, the other party wants a refund. the whole thing is a mess and could have probably been avoided if the promoters went through the proper channels..

Bingo. They didn't go through proper channel cause they thought they could save a buck.


.
Old 28th January 2013
  #34
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
So messed up.. btw - isn't $12,000 for 3 gigs a little low? He was cutting them a deal.
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #35
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by WDM ➡️
It’s not that simple like “you return me my money back because you didn’t make it and I don’t want you anymore”. WFH?
It is that simple, the flights were delayed some but did get there. Louis was paid a large sum of money for playing 3 concerts and didn't make it. Even with the returned fee the promoters are still out $7k on the flight.

Whether or not it was his fault is neither here nor there - he didn't perform so should return his fee. I'd expect any professional to have proper insurance against such eventualities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by msi
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax
fwiw i dont see it like that. louis made his demands clear: direct flight on united. they didn't listen and look what happened. the real issue seems to be that louis wants to reschedule the tour, the other party wants a refund. the whole thing is a mess and could have probably been avoided if the promoters went through the proper channels..
Bingo. They didn't go through proper channel cause they thought they could save a buck.
So he wanted to reschedule - why did he accept the flight then? I presume he'd expect to be paid for the rescheduled tour...
If they weren't going through the 'proper channels' why did Louis continue to deal with them?

I'd really have expected there to have been some formal contractual arrangent from both sides. Yes the promoters are guilty of being naive but that doesn't mean they deserve to be taken for a ride.
Old 28th January 2013
  #36
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Shouldn't one of them have had insurance for this exact situation?
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #37
WDM
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveman ➡️
... Yes the promoters are guilty of being naive but that doesn't mean they deserve to be taken for a ride.
I am not taking any sides either, because the whole story seems like not real to me at all.

But still...

By being naive they jeopardized the whole event. First , they bugged him for a long time just to come... They did the flight and hotel reservations, They did visas, etc. So, it seems like they were controling everything and by trying to cut costs they failed to manage the associated risks, so it's their fault.

The guy was just following...

If they were to let him book his flights for example, that would be the different story. But they didn't.

Now, if someone wants to convince me, that if she called from another part of the world by phone, and someone showed her some flight schedule, and based on that she is convinced that the guy didn't make his flight on purpose, that would be suspicious to me at least.

I witnessed as the flight crew closed the door and took off having different passenger count on board, on list and in real. Sounds strange huh?

It means that on board is someone they even don't know who he is, but they're pressured to take off to keep the runway schedule? That's a real life.
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #38
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agzilla ➡️
Can't believe I read all that...

Interesting though... Shame still...

Zz.
Can you please give me a TL : DR?

I read the preface and saw how long the page was... had to nope outta there... already got too distracted from Live.
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #39
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xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveman ➡️

So he wanted to reschedule - why did he accept the flight then? I presume he'd expect to be paid for the rescheduled tour...
you are insinuating the rescheduling was a premeditated thing but he only offered it after the flight ordeal as a way to complete the deal/tour, there is no indication he is asking for more money either..

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveman ➡️

If they weren't going through the 'proper channels' why did Louis continue to deal with them?
actually louis tells them several times early on in the deal to go talk to his agents, he doesn't even seem very keen on making it happen letting them know their offer is low yet the promoters keep coming back to him.. then there is the whole youri situation which added so much confusion that louis probably decided to handle it directly himself.. for better or in this case for worst..

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveman ➡️

I'd really have expected there to have been some formal contractual arrangent from both sides. Yes the promoters are guilty of being naive but that doesn't mean they deserve to be taken for a ride.
they were a lot more then naive.. they lowballed him.. didn't meet his travel demands and worst of all they advertised the event before he even agreed to the deal. very unprofessional and it feels like louis was pressured into accepting these guys offer because of the backwards way they handled it. and now they are calling him a fraud insinuating he's planned this all along.. in the end i dunno who's right or wrong but the promoters were indeed great amateurs to say the least..
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #40
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LiveFromKyoto's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveman ➡️
I'd really have expected there to have been some formal contractual arrangent from both sides. Yes the promoters are guilty of being naive but that doesn't mean they deserve to be taken for a ride.
Even that doesn't really matter. What a lot of people in this thread don't seem to get is that oral contracts are legally binding in most countries. That the promoters have this all in writing makes it doubly so. Once there's proof of his agreement he can't just do whatever he wants because there's no signature.

The promoters have far more than enough to establish that a fixed agreement was settled upon by the two parties, and funds were paid and accepted. There's little doubt in my mind they'd win this one in court (unless the judge decided the leaked documents had somehow poisoned the waters), especially if airline documentation completely contradicts his story.
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #41
WDM
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveFromKyoto ➡️
Even that doesn't really matter. What a lot of people in this thread don't seem to get is that oral contracts are legally binding in most countries. That the promoters have this all in writing makes it doubly so. Once there's proof of his agreement he can't just do whatever he wants because there's no signature.
I guess it's not about just a signature. If you just put it for example simple as "I'll pay you 2000 dollars if you'll perform at the show on 28 XXX", in whatever form, you put your show and money at the risk, just because you didn't specify (discuss) for example the place and time and what happens if it's not gonna happen for whatever reason (alien invasion for example).

As a result, each party will have it's own representation of the story as well as expectations on how those things should be handled. You could win or you could lose, and no doubt, in any case, it would be expensive and time consuming.
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #42
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Dirty Halo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Guys, this was amatuer hour, plain and simple.

You have a booking agent.

Everything goes through THAT agent.

THIS is WHY you have an agent.

These guys were working on this tour for over a year and they never got a hold of the guy's ACTUAL agent?

On the artists side, the way you protect yourself when you get the VERY FIRST EMAIL from guys like this... "PLEASE CONTACT MY AGENT AT..."

Boom. Done. Simple.

The rest is a cluster fvck of stupid proportion.

THEN to advertise your ignorance on the internet the way they did is even more moronic.


Stay professional. Not hard.

-a
Old 28th January 2013
  #43
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ionian's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
The fact that they couldn't nail down who his agent was and the fact that he was incapable of telling them or giving them his exact agent's info should have been a red flag.

Whenever anyone contacts me they get my Agent's name, number and email address and that's the end of that - she handles all negotiations and contracts after that. Very simple. That what she takes her cut for.

Regards,
Frank
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #44
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by BingoBongo ➡️
I cant believe a one hit wonder from the dark ages can charge that kinda rent!

That tune was super huge though.
the darkages are now .. is the wage of these guys calculated in akne spots? its way higher than 2,5k



hard to say whether the bitch or the itch is more disgusting.. but.. he is outing tiesto.. so we know now why the marriage got cancelled..akne boy.-.-

i would say an asswischio that shows up is a bigger crime versus mankind than a lil louis that does´nt
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #45
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by BingoBongo ➡️
I cant believe a one hit wonder from the dark ages can charge that kinda rent!
One hit wonder? Are you joking? Just because French Kiss was (still is) incredibly super massive, doesn't mean that Blackout or Why'd U Fall (both of these are waay beyond french kiss which was a bit of a novelty track really), or the dance mania 12s, or his two albums or every other record put out by him wasn't great too.
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #46
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax ➡️
i'm not trying to take sides here, just my observations based on the actual email exchange.
I claim no knowledge as to the actuality of the exchange, but it seems a bit naive to assume that the promoter would necessarily be entirely transparent and truthfully revealing in the choice of what to include from their private correspondence in a "public shaming" slam pdf.
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #47
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegreengold ➡️
One hit wonder? Are you joking? Just because French Kiss was (still is) incredibly super massive, doesn't mean that Blackout or Why'd U Fall (both of these are waay beyond french kiss which was a bit of a novelty track really), or the dance mania 12s, or his two albums or every other record put out by him wasn't great too.
And of course this one. Always a huge dancefloor hit.



Lil Louis is a very good DJ too, or at least his set was great here in Finland a few years ago.
Old 28th January 2013
  #48
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xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
...he's a DJ first and foremost, started at age 16 in the late 70's.. French Kiss was merely a track made to promote his DJ career but it definitely transcended house music. Also if you peep his rider, dude mixes on rotary with isolators..true original disco/house DJ style.. pretty sure he's earned his wages which aren't even astronomical in comparison to what lot of laptop fakers make (ie: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elect...ns-2012-a.html)
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #49
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegreengold ➡️
I claim no knowledge as to the actuality of the exchange, but it seems a bit naive to assume that the promoter would necessarily be entirely transparent and truthfully revealing in the choice of what to include from their private correspondence in a "public shaming" slam pdf.
The promoters don't look great even with the selected bunch of emails they posted. An interesting one they left out was the one in which they explained how they splashed out all of AUS$20 on an ETA (tourist visa) with some advice to the DJ not to tell Aussie immigration that he was playing gigs. Is that wise when you've run up adverts and promoted it on Facebook etc that the guy would be playing gigs? OK, immigration might not have spotted that discrepancy...or they might just have sent him on a plane straight back home.
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #50
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Yeah, when I finally read through all that I was wondering why the promoters would want to tarnish their own reputation by publicizing how unprofessional, inept and shady they are, judging solely by their own statements, on top of being *s. Shameless.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #51
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PeteJames's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by BingoBongo ➡️
I cant believe a one hit wonder from the dark ages can charge that kinda rent!

That tune was super huge though.
I know. This is absurd! I wouldn't pay £10 to see him let alone the best part of £20,000 (including flights and hotel) to book him. There must be a hundreds of talented djs and producers in Aus. There are the people that should be getting booked. Those humber and upcoming acts that deserve a break no washed up prime donne's. I guess its just how the business works though. The general public just want to see a big name that they have heard of.

It was an interesting read and enough for me to wonder why anyone would ever become a promoter. Seems like the worlds biggest hassle. I've no idea how people make any money with DJs charging these fees, demanding business class flights, five star hotels and everything else under the sun.

I need to get working one my one hit wonder
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #52
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteJames ➡️
demanding business class flights
thats really not an esoteric wish for a flight around the globe... but ok.. a guy like lil louis has in the economy class 2 times the space i would have with business class... he could be easily transported as hand lugage
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #53
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegreengold ➡️
One hit wonder? Are you joking? Just because French Kiss was (still is) incredibly super massive, doesn't mean that Blackout or Why'd U Fall (both of these are waay beyond french kiss which was a bit of a novelty track really), or the dance mania 12s, or his two albums or every other record put out by him wasn't great too.
I never said he didnt make other possibly better music.

But his claim to fame whether you him or I like it or not..is French Kiss

I can remember the first time I ever heard that when it came out.

I was on acid and poppers.Was fairly mindblowing.
Old 29th January 2013
  #54
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Bullseye's Avatar
Partial performance - partial payment.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #55
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AudioRadar's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteJames ➡️
I know. This is absurd! I wouldn't pay £10 to see him let alone the best part of £20,000 (including flights and hotel) to book him. There must be a hundreds of talented djs and producers in Aus. There are the people that should be getting booked. Those humber and upcoming acts that deserve a break no washed up prime donne's. I guess its just how the business works though. The general public just want to see a big name that they have heard of.

It was an interesting read and enough for me to wonder why anyone would ever become a promoter. Seems like the worlds biggest hassle. I've no idea how people make any money with DJs charging these fees, demanding business class flights, five star hotels and everything else under the sun.

I need to get working one my one hit wonder
i was exactly thinking this...
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #56
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
So a lot of people don't have much respect for talent or artists, and believe they shouldn't be entitled to negotiate whatever their value is when it's their name which brings in the people that makes the money for promoters?
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