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King KORG Synthesizer
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #91
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synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by flat earth ➡️
I went back to listen to the 8000, and straight away heard that plastic thing I hate so much. This KK is obviousley an evolution apart.
And then, hmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by messiaen ➡️
Doesn't sound so different from most VA's I have heard, probably more flexible, stick it through some analog effects it could be nice, but its that plasticy digital sound you can never get away from...and its overpriced, for a £1000 you could get a prophet 08 module
This is what puzzles me about human beings, how two people can have the exact same experience and react in completely opposite ways.

First on flat earth's remarks on the JP-8000 relisten, that's kind of sad, though I have a similar reaction. To me, it's not so much that the 8000 sounds plastic - though the aliasing does get annoying on the high end, but that the filter has a decidedly Jupiterish sound that I liked better when I first encountered the JP-8. After spending time with a variety of analogs and VAs, and a few emulation softies, I found that I liked the Jupiter sound less than I thought I did. Still, when I spend time with a JP emulation - fat chance I'll be around a real JP-8 again till I discover new friends - it does warm me back up to it, and the JP8K is the same way. At the same time, it doesn't have the definition and "breath" of a Jupiter-80 or Kronos, or a King KORG. Maybe the JP-80 or Integra is the same but better, but I'd have to sit down with them side by side to determine that. The 80 does have a lot of juice, I'll have to say, or the new VR-09. I have a hunch though that the venerable 8000 still has its own sound quality.

But then there's this "King KORG is overpriced" thing that bugs me. For one, messiaen's example of the P08 module is a little shady. While I wouldn't doubt that you can find some deals in Europe at £1000, especially demos or returns, the usual price is more like £1200 or £1300. Plus, it's a module, which will always be cheaper, so duh on that point. A P08 keyboard is more like £1700 or £1800. Plus, it only has one sound, a Dave Smith sound, which to me is fine but isn't nearly as versatile as a Virus or Radias. Which aren't nearly as versatile as a King KORG. And have you priced a Virus lately?

Secondly, I'm unaware of any VAs on the market like it other than the AKAI Miniak and Alesis Micron, which are both good but face it, these are budget units stripped down as bare as you can get, basically modules with a tiny keyboard on it. The result of eight year old technology milked to the utmost.

And compared to the timbre of real analogs on my fusion albums, the KK sounds indistinguishable, so I'm not sure where people come up with their "plastic" remarks. Unless you think Minimoogs and Odysseys sound cheezy. Now one thing does, and that's the KK piano which to me sounds unfiltered. But the synth engine sounds fat juicy and pretty darn authentic. And the tube section sounds like the real deal, not a cheap solder job like some assumed it would be.

But to each, his or her own.
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #92
MusicFan
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicBern ➡️
There is a great story of a studio guy who in the days of tape cassette, would do a product copy to tape of a final mix in his studio, run out to his car drop the tape in and hear what the end customer would here, if it did not sound right, he would run back and start over

ABBA would stack instruments to richen the sound achievable on a mono record player back in the days of vinyl records and mono players...

It is subtle at times today, but I recall a a KORG OASYS demo with some synth vox effects sound good on lofi MP3 not so good on hifi MP3 and not very good on CD. The codec had rounded the sound and removed stuff that made the synth sing better....

End to end chain so important....
The great Quincy Jones used to test his mixes through small and cheap "radio" speakers at the top of the desk and it had to sound right over those, as he and others explain in this video (watch from 4min10sec):



Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #93
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy ➡️
And then, hmm...

a Virus or Radias. Which aren't nearly as versatile as a King KORG. And have you priced a Virus lately?
I must have missed something. In what way is the King Korg much more versatile than a Virus or a Radias? My impression was that it is quite a bit less versatile than a Radias, let alone a Virus.
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #94
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy ➡️
A P08 keyboard is more like £1700 or £1800. Plus, it only has one sound, a Dave Smith sound, which to me is fine but isn't nearly as versatile as a Virus or Radias.
Whoa there, cowboy!!

To get the pedantry out of the way first, a new P08 KB will set you back £1500. So there.

And I'm not sure I'd agree with your point about the P08 only having one sound.

One of the things that I love the most about my P08 is the depth of the thing, in terms of sounds it'll do. Some of the patches I have on mine, I'd defy pretty much anyone on here to know what kind of synth made them. It's not ALL brass and fuzz with this thing. :-)
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #95
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicFan ➡️
The great Quincy Jones used to test his mixes through small and cheap "radio" speakers at the top of the desk and it had to sound right over those, as he and others explain in this video (watch from 4min10sec):



Brilliant, thanks for posting

Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #96
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R3Member's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy ➡️
so I'm not sure where people come up with their "plastic" remarks.
It's simple instrument troll forum logic. Notice how when anyone brings up some kind of criticism about one thing, it is immediately followed by something else entirely different. "It sounds plasticy like ____", or "why bother with that when you can get ____"

It's all just a clever way to constantly validate owning whatever it is sitting in the corner of your studio collecting dust as you type, haha.
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #97
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synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielb ➡️
I must have missed something. In what way is the King Korg much more versatile than a Virus or a Radias? My impression was that it is quite a bit less versatile than a Radias, let alone a Virus.
Erm... yeah, I really shouldn't have typed so quickly this morning. Didn't get much sleep.

What I mean is in the sense of the filters available, and I say this as a big fan of the Virus and Radias both. The Radias in particular freaked me out. I figured it was a nice VA and was enjoying it when I finally got my hands on one, and then I started changing the slope on that Variable Lowpass filter. Yikes... small changes had such a distinct difference in the character of the sound! And with that third OSC hidden in the waveshaper, it got freaking huge. And then with the Virus, I was pleasantly surprised at how Moogy it could get - three oscillators AND a Sub?? wow, and then with 12db filters, ARPy, Obie, and even some CS-80 territory.

And if you've got those guys in your arsenal, a King KORG isn't automatically necessary just because it has more filter models and a tube stage. But still, they do make for wonderful variations in those patches. I speak as a synthesist rather than a keyboardist, a guy who has an unhealthy addiction to having as many sonic options available. So a modular may well be in my future if the world will just hold together a few more years.

Yes, I'm making all my sensory decisions based on YouTube vids and mp3s. But I've learned how to listen through some pretty bad demos to get the gist of a sound sample, and the KK sounds a little bigger and a scouche more authentic than a Miniak or Micon, and that tube sure makes a terrific difference. It's definitely not "just another VA" like the Nords and Novations are, as fine as they can be themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SynthesizerPatel ➡️
Whoa there, cowboy!!

To get the pedantry out of the way first, a new P08 KB will set you back £1500. So there.

And I'm not sure I'd agree with your point about the P08 only having one sound. One of the things that I love the most about my P08 is the depth of the thing, in terms of sounds it'll do. Some of the patches I have on mine, I'd defy pretty much anyone on here to know what kind of synth made them. It's not ALL brass and fuzz with this thing. :-)
Erm... really getting schooled today.

In defense of my quotes, I'm across the Pond so I'm unaware of the deals that can be cut with the more aggressive music shops in Europe and UK. Those are the deals I googled up, so of course they were the bigger chains like Thomann, which doesn't seem to be carrying Prophets anymore, perhaps DSI synths period.

Anyway, to your point about the Prophet being a chameleon, that may well be true in some senses. I like the DSI/Curtis sound a lot and defend it here when I have a proper opportunity as a non-owner. But still, it reminds me of the OB-8 in having a distinct sonic signature. Not a bad thing in any way, but you know, Oberheims have a certain sound, and so do Dave's synths. And I like it when I come across a synth which is unique - in a way I find musically pleasing to me, I hasten to add. zahush seems to really dig the heck out of demos full of extensively modulated sequences of notes in moods running from somber and basic to heavily mangled and unusual. Which for me, leave me scratching my head as to how the thing would sound in one of my tracks. So I'm drawn to perhaps more "pedestrian" synths like VAs, vintage analogs or the Prophets, synths which are a known quantity and will deliver what I want, while also having some flexibility to one extent or another in their sonic wardrobe.

I defer to you on how flexible the P08 is, though I have a feeling that if I had one, I'd agree with you. Still, I can't help but lust after his new big bro, the Prophet 12, and forget about the older sibling.

Anyway, just a little clarification.
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #98
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MoBeach's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicFan ➡️
The great Quincy Jones used to test his mixes through small and cheap "radio" speakers at the top of the desk and it had to sound right over those, as he and others explain in this video (watch from 4min10sec):



Very informative!
Old 18th February 2013 | Show parent
  #99
MusicFan
Guest
Having listened to the demo once again KORG KingKORG - YouTube, I have to say, that it's not only the very versatile and pleasing KK sound,
but also especially the extremely fast and smooth modulation of the envelopes and LFO's, which makes the KingKORG sound so intriguing to me.

I knew that already from my OASYS. So after almost eight years since the OASYS release, it's quite clear, that a lot of those pioneer developments are represented today, even by their latest low price segment products like the KK.

I think the KK is underrated at the moment and it has (IMHO) currently the most advanced VA synth engine available on the world market in that low price segment.

I mean, all the KORG engineers worked so hard for decades, to finally enable the release of such an incredible synth like the KK for such a low price, but everybody just talks about an old monophonic synth, based on outdated technology...

It must be somewhat frustrating to watch for those Korg engineers...but surely big fun for those old Japanese engineers, who originally have designed the MS-20 and now again the MS-20-Mini...

Old 18th February 2013
  #100
Gear Nut
 
wayne_kerr's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
The Gaia had the weakest Roland filter and the osc were weak but because it was times 3 you cold still get some decensy out of it. I think king korg will crap over gaiAi
Old 18th February 2013 | Show parent
  #101
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Korg King Korg...... £949.00
Prophet 08 Keys £1499.00.............end of........choose your poison
Old 22nd February 2013
  #102
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grasspike's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years


this new demo sounds sweet
Old 22nd February 2013
  #103
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SynthesizerPatel's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Not crazy about the demo but it DOES sound very nice.
Old 22nd February 2013
  #104
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synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
It's pretty easy for any synth to do funk-jazz sounds. You could probably do something similar on a Venom. But yeah, it was nice to see the KK in action again, though layering those Obie sawpads and pitching one was a bit too clever. The vid makes it look like you can use the joystick to pitchbend individual oscillators. Maybe it can, but that part sounds layered. I should dig up my numerous KORG manuals and see if they implemented that on their romplers.

Another thing I'm wondering is if they use the Minimoog pulse settings, and if you can work around that if they do.
Old 23rd February 2013 | Show parent
  #105
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🎧 5 years
Sends CV gate out via Arpeggio ? is possible or not ?
If it does something like this maybe.
I have tons of synth in my workshop why do i need the king Kong ?
Old 25th February 2013 | Show parent
  #106
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicFan ➡️
Certainly not true, as you will have to realize if you listen to this excellent demo, which is the best KK demo, I've heard so far...

This synth is good, very, very good!




Wow, this thing got completely buried under the MS-20, Moog & P12 announcements, but I might actually be more interested in this than any of them! Really nice high end, nice character, the tube is a sold idea, the phaser doesn't suck, and I like that they threw in some standard keys.

Curious to try this out in person and see what the key action and build quality are like, and hear a bit more of the pianos. I wasn't that impressed by the piano sounds I heard there, hopefully there's more to it.
Old 25th February 2013 | Show parent
  #107
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flat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike ➡️


this new demo sounds sweet
The more I hear this thing, the more I like it. As others have noted, can't help thinking the mini MS20 has kind of overshadowed this synth. For a VA, it sounds very smooth.

As said before, am hoping more light is shed upon its XMT engine.
Old 25th February 2013
  #108
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
If its got the same awful tubes that came with the electribes then it can sound much much better with good tubes.

It surely must have the guts of the va in the kronos?
Old 25th February 2013 | Show parent
  #109
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SynthesizerPatel's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveFromKyoto ➡️
Wow, this thing got completely buried under the MS-20, Moog & P12 announcements, but I might actually be more interested in this than any of them!
Exactly my thoughts - just wish they get a shift on and release more info/demo's.
Old 25th February 2013 | Show parent
  #110
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flat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thong ➡️
It surely must have the guts of the va in the kronos?
Quite a few of us speculated a synth board, filtered down from the Oasys/Kronos's AL-1 & Mod-7 synths....but this KK seems to be based around something entirely different.

hmmmm ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by SynthesizerPatel ➡️
.... just wish they get a shift on and release more info/demo's.
Indeed, Im intigued to find out what the heart of this thing is.
Old 25th February 2013 | Show parent
  #111
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Yes, it sounds good, but....we could have had a Mod7 box :-(

Anyway first glane at the manual seems to indicate thet it is a bit too simple for my taste. I thought we where bast 3*VCO->Mixer->Filer->VCA structures...

Let´s see, what the engine can really do. Korg tends to hide one or two surprises, so it might be a really nice mid-level VA.

Not sure if it can keep up with the Solaris, Accelerator or the synth engines in the Kronos.

I kind of get the feeling Synth manufacturers are moving towards simple and good sounding. I like the second part, not so much the first part.
Old 25th February 2013 | Show parent
  #112
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seen-da-sizer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveFromKyoto ➡️
Wow, this thing got completely buried under the MS-20, Moog & P12 announcements, but I might actually be more interested in this than any of them!
Quote:
Originally Posted by flat earth ➡️
The more I hear this thing, the more I like it. As others have noted, can't help thinking the mini MS20 has kind of overshadowed this synth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicFan ➡️
I think the KK is underrated at the moment and it has (IMHO) currently the most advanced VA synth engine available on the world market in that low price segment.

I mean, all the KORG engineers worked so hard for decades, to finally enable the release of such an incredible synth like the KK for such a low price, but everybody just talks about an old monophonic synth, based on outdated technology...

It must be somewhat frustrating to watch for those Korg engineers...but surely big fun for those old Japanese engineers, who originally have designed the MS-20 and now again the MS-20-Mini...
Exactly my thoughts as well! The KK so far impresses with very original sounding filter emulations, something that currently only the Solaris offers at a much, much higher price. I fear KK will suffer the same destiny as the Fizmo did upon its release. It got ignored while being in the shadows of other synths releases at that time.
Old 26th February 2013 | Show parent
  #113
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synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bug2342 ➡️
Anyway first glane at the manual seems to indicate thet it is a bit too simple for my taste. I thought we where bast 3*VCO->Mixer->Filer->VCA structures...

Let´s see, what the engine can really do. Korg tends to hide one or two surprises, so it might be a really nice mid-level VA.

Not sure if it can keep up with the Solaris, Accelerator or the synth engines in the Kronos.
Comparing it to a Solaris isn't entirely fair, as it costs about three times as much and is a virtual modular wavetable synth, and the Kronos is a wonder-station of even more flexibility and potentially similar price. But at the same time, the KK is a great sounding VA with a tube distortion stage, not a pretend one, has a lot of models of oscillators and filters - what, five highpass filters?? - and it seems like it would give the Accelerator a run for its money head to head.

But at the same time, I wouldn't be shy about considering one over an Accelerator or Solaris, because you can coax a LOT of sounds out of a "simple" 3 OSC > filter > amp architecture that sounds good. Sure, I much prefer dual LP-HP filters, but a bandpass will work well enough for most purposes. Besides, neither a Memorymoog or ESQ-1 are simple synthesizers. Three OSCs provides a lot of rich raw material to sculpt sound with. What's more, you can layer the patches which gives you SIX oscillators, two filters and two amps, and each with their own envelopes. That should give any programmer quite a bit to play with.

I've been able to spend some time on a Kronos programming AL-1, and I'm very impressed with it. It has its own sound, and though you can shape the filters to sound Moogish and Prophety and Oberheimie, they still kind of have their own KORG-ish character, which is fine. But it seems that when KORG decided to extend the soundmaking potential of their AL-1/Radias VA engine with whatever extra code and DSP makes it into XMT, they took the time to make some good models of Moog, Oberheim, Prophet and I assume ARP, Roland and MS-20 components. I'm curious about those five highpass filters, because that's not the kind of thing most companies devote many resources to reproducing.

I suspect the "surprises" KORG has instilled in the KK isn't in some hidden feature, but what you can do with all those elements when you roll your own sounds and send them through those effects. It seems a bit like the Arturia Origin modular VA, giving you the opportunity to send Moog oscillators through Prophet filters. I thought the Radias sounded terrific, but it was "limited" to Radias oscillators and filters, kind of bright and sheeny. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on this thing and seeing firsthand what KORG loaded into the champagne chassis.

I don't expect the King KORG to get passed over quite like the Radias and Fizmo were. The Fizmo was a cool but quirky wavetable synth, and a lot of people thought the Radias was a bright happy instant techno box. Keyboard buyers tend to hesitate and pay a little more attention when names like Moog and Oberheim are associated.
Old 26th February 2013 | Show parent
  #114
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grasspike's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bug2342 ➡️
Yes, it sounds good, but....we could have had a Mod7 box :-(
my guess (and hope) is we will get that next year at NAMM 2014

It will be next years Micro line. The Korg MicroMod will retail for $499 and will be able to load Yamaha DX7 patches via SD media or USB library.

It will come with software that will allow you to be able edit FM sounds graphically similar to what is on the touch screen in Kronos.

The unit itself will be the size of the Microstation and will basically be a keyboard with lots of buttons for organizing and playing back presets of which it will have a ton and have space for adding a ton more.

It will have a drum machine section with both samples and FM drums all of which will be very 80s sounding.

Finally it will have reverbs, chorus, and delay which will be labeled as being from Kaoss.

There will be no programming on board as a means to keep it simple and cheap. All programming will be done via the software.

The above would be a killer board, priced cheap enough to sell in every musicstore, and would be unique in the market place.
Old 26th February 2013
  #115
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3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
more ghost synths!
Old 26th February 2013 | Show parent
  #116
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synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike ➡️
There will be no programming on board
Ooooh, I seriously doubt that would ever happen. FM is the least immediate, easy to program form of synthesis I'm aware of. I was going to say second least next to additive synthesis, but technically, organs are additive instruments.

In any case, anyone can come to terms with a Monotron or Virus without too much trouble, but FM is an alien universe that is much harder to grasp. Many can't. I can grope my way through it half successfully.

I also suspect that Yamaha has put the kabosh on anyone releasing a pure FM synth but them. It seems they're content to license the right to use FM within instruments and in software, like in the KORG Z1, Kronos, and in the FM-8 softsynth. But the last FM hardware unit was the FS1R module, and it seems that Yamaha is waiting for a market that wants an FM synth again to throw one out there with their name on it. What I'm hoping to see along with a new SY100 or something is a VA with a CS-80 modeled in it, with a panel full of sliders again. It would likely be as expensive as a Prophet-12, maybe a little less, but if it sounds right, I'm in.
Old 26th February 2013 | Show parent
  #117
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy ➡️
I also suspect that Yamaha has put the kabosh on anyone releasing a pure FM synth but them. It seems they're content to license the right to use FM within instruments and in software, like in the KORG Z1, Kronos, and in the FM-8 softsynth.
What I am talking about is using the MOD7 engine from Kronos and putting it into a Micro series synth using software in a computer environment for programming to save costs. Very similar to what Korg has already done with the Microstation.

Also FWIW Yamaha never held the patent for FM synthesis it was licensed by them from Stanford University. Standford's patent for FM expired in 1995 and went into the Public Domain since then anyone can build FM synths without paying any royalties to anyone
Old 26th February 2013
  #118
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🎧 5 years
When I first saw this, I was hoping for a Radias with nicer filters and drive, a few more mod slots and more LFO's; a further evolution of the AL1 engine from the Oasys/Kronos.

It looks like they've gone the other way, 2 rather than 3 envelopes, no comb filter, 2 rather than 4 layers, no mod sequencer, only 100 slots for user sounds. Marketed as a live performance board rather than a programmers playground.

I'm still tempted though, it seems to cover a lot of bread and butter sounds and characters, and fundamentally sounds good. I just hope they haven't dumbed down the programmability too much.
Old 26th February 2013 | Show parent
  #119
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LiveFromKyoto's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy ➡️
Ooooh, I seriously doubt that would ever happen. FM is the least immediate, easy to program form of synthesis I'm aware of. I was going to say second least next to additive synthesis, but technically, organs are additive instruments.

In any case, anyone can come to terms with a Monotron or Virus without too much trouble, but FM is an alien universe that is much harder to grasp. Many can't. I can grope my way through it half successfully.

I also suspect that Yamaha has put the kabosh on anyone releasing a pure FM synth but them. It seems they're content to license the right to use FM within instruments and in software, like in the KORG Z1, Kronos, and in the FM-8 softsynth. But the last FM hardware unit was the FS1R module, and it seems that Yamaha is waiting for a market that wants an FM synth again to throw one out there with their name on it. What I'm hoping to see along with a new SY100 or something is a VA with a CS-80 modeled in it, with a panel full of sliders again. It would likely be as expensive as a Prophet-12, maybe a little less, but if it sounds right, I'm in.
Dubstep and all the sounds pop & other EDM have ripped out of it are based on FM synthesis. I'm shocked nobody's done a hardware FM synth lately. Just half-arsed buzzy wobble patches.
Old 26th February 2013 | Show parent
  #120
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years


pretty good
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