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King KORG Synthesizer
Old 8th March 2014
  #361
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NoVi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The website states that through the cv gate out you can control MS20Mini. Im not sure hw this works, anyone tried this?
Old 8th March 2014 | Show parent
  #362
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gliese581 ➑️
Despite the silly name, the KK is a capable hardware VA as any and then some.

The lack of aftertouch is serious omission though. For many like myself, its simply not a consideration due to this. 3 LED screens and a built in vacuum tube, but no AT? Whenever a new board comes out or looking at a vintage board, the very first thing I check is whether or not the keybed has aftertouch.

Aftertouch is such an important modulation option, especially on a VA to map filter cut off, resonance and vibrato for starters. Choosing a controller is a very personally an important aspect of ones studio. Most have space and budget constraints and need to ensure what they are using to control and play a wide variety of soft and hardware instruments feels good and is up to the job. There is no room or place for consumer grade keybeds lacking aftertouch expression on pro grade gear. These are synthesizers, real musical instruments, not starter home keyboards or toys.

I think a lot would have considered paying a few dollars more for AT, than not paying anything without it.
I just wanted to highlight this post (text in 'bold' is my edit) , since it reflects my sentiments exactly.

Lately, I've noticed what appears to be a drive by all companies to eliminate aftertouch from all sub Β£1000 workstations, and it's simply unforgivable.

As Gliese581 mentions above, we get vacuum tube, fancy LCDs but no aftertouch. The priorities seem to be skewed.

For the record, aftertouch is as essential as velocity and mod wheels and even a two octave midi controller should have it.
Old 8th March 2014
  #363
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adydub's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Aftertouch is also missing on the even more expensive Nord Lead 4, though at least the interface is suitably knobby, with no menu diving required. Why Korg didn't build on the extremely successful interfaces of the MS2000 and the Radias is something of a mystery.

I've always liked the idea of Aftertouch, but never found a satisfying implementation. It tends to be a bit push down then nothing, nothing, nothing, MAXIMUM AFTERTOUCH - fiddling with sensitivity never seemed to help much. Non standard controllers seem to handle this far better. I have been enjoying the poly Aftertouch implementation on the Ableton push, and things like the Seaboard Grand and the Halen Continuum look really interesting. The sad reality is that expanding the control from a standard keyboard beyond velocity and note on/off is only ever going to appeal to a minority as things stand.
Old 8th March 2014
  #364
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🎧 5 years
Aftertouch is the most overrated feature about synths
Old 8th March 2014 | Show parent
  #365
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EvilDragon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniDX ➑️
Aftertouch is the most overrated feature about synths
Nope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adydub ➑️
I've always liked the idea of Aftertouch, but never found a satisfying implementation. It tends to be a bit push down then nothing, nothing, nothing, MAXIMUM AFTERTOUCH - fiddling with sensitivity never seemed to help much.
This is not happening on my Kurzweil PC3K8, and it also works very smoothly on Korg M3, OASYS and Kronos.

OTOH, Roland's aftertouch (at least on Fantoms that I tried some years back) is usually very heavy-handed, you need to push in real hard to get something happening. Quite bad.
Old 8th March 2014 | Show parent
  #366
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skira's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by himalaya ➑️
Lately, I've noticed what appears to be a drive by all companies to eliminate aftertouch from all sub Β£1000 workstations, and it's simply unforgivable.
It's not simply workstations. Korg's new Taktile controllers oddly don't have aftertouch either. And most other brands apparently use it as a differentiator reserved for higher-end controllers and synths.

Thankfully not all brands are going that route. Novation has aftertouch in their mid-priced controller keyboards ($250 Impulse yes, $99 Launchkey no) and synths ($500 Bass Station 2, Ultranova).
Old 8th March 2014 | Show parent
  #367
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by adydub ➑️
Aftertouch is also missing on the even more expensive Nord Lead 4, though at least the interface is suitably knobby, with no menu diving required. Why Korg didn't build on the extremely successful interfaces of the MS2000 and the Radias is something of a mystery.

I've always liked the idea of Aftertouch, but never found a satisfying implementation. It tends to be a bit push down then nothing, nothing, nothing, MAXIMUM AFTERTOUCH - fiddling with sensitivity never seemed to help much. Non standard controllers seem to handle this far better. I have been enjoying the poly Aftertouch implementation on the Ableton push, and things like the Seaboard Grand and the Halen Continuum look really interesting. The sad reality is that expanding the control from a standard keyboard beyond velocity and note on/off is only ever going to appeal to a minority as things stand.
Yes, I didn't want to mention pure synths, but yes, there are too many without aftertouch, with the whole Nord Lead line including (except NL3). And it's not just synths. Midi controllers are increasingly made with no aftertouch. So much for the 'controller' bit.

I get what you mean about the way some keyboards are calibrated, and there is definitely lots of room for improvement. Come to think of it, the very inexpensive Arturia Minibrute has aftertouch, and it works beautifully.

This is a whole other topic though, perhaps deserving of a specific thread?
Old 8th March 2014 | Show parent
  #368
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synthguy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by adydub ➑️
I've always liked the idea of Aftertouch, but never found a satisfying implementation. It tends to be a bit push down then nothing, nothing, nothing, MAXIMUM AFTERTOUCH - fiddling with sensitivity never seemed to help much. Non standard controllers seem to handle this far better. I have been enjoying the poly Aftertouch implementation on the Ableton push, and things like the Seaboard Grand and the Halen Continuum look really interesting. The sad reality is that expanding the control from a standard keyboard beyond velocity and note on/off is only ever going to appeal to a minority as things stand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon ➑️
This is not happening on my Kurzweil PC3K8, and it also works very smoothly on Korg M3, OASYS and Kronos.

OTOH, Roland's aftertouch (at least on Fantoms that I tried some years back) is usually very heavy-handed, you need to push in real hard to get something happening. Quite bad.
I had a feeling he wouldn't like Roland, just a stray hunch.

But this points out how varied everyone's response is to it. On the PC3 I tried, AT was very hard. On the Fantom and M3, in the middle. On an early Ensoniq SQ-80, wonderful, and poly AT. Then later it went to crap. And except on the SQ-80, a Triton and Karma, AT was a little difficult to do what I wanted, like smooth filter swells. For things like tossing in no-hands vibrato or toggling a Leslie effect, fine, but not much else. For this reason I much prefer expression pedals, because AT has been mostly an on/off thing.
Old 8th March 2014
  #369
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EvilDragon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
PC3 offers 7 aftertouch curves (separately adjustable for local keyboard and transmitting MIDI), and IIRC you can adjust its sensitivity with a micro-pot if you open the wheels block up, even... No way you can't make it very light that way. I'm getting quite fine gradations with mine, definitely not an off/on thing.

Note that I only mentioned Fantoms (X and G) as those were what I tried out at some point. Others might fare better, but reading some reviews, perhaps not. heh
Old 8th March 2014 | Show parent
  #370
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniDX ➑️
Aftertouch is the most overrated feature about synths
Care to explain why?

Why would you consider a feature that allows intuitive expression to be overrated? Music is about expression and every tool and feature which helps us to better express our music ideas should be celebrated and used.


Look what's happening in the video below. This excellent muso is using the pitch wheel for pitch bends and the mod wheel for vibrato. Notice how awkward it is. His thumb has to jump from one wheel to another, then back and forth...this is the wrong way to do it. Use aftertouch for vibrato and the thumb can stay on the pitch wheel, aiding in a smoother performance. So, in fact, aftertouch is not used often enough. People perhaps don't even know it exists...sigh


Old 8th March 2014
  #371
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EvilDragon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
A proper player will actually use pitch bend for vibrato, as well.
Old 8th March 2014
  #372
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🎧 10 years
Except the only way to do a natural vibrato is to use the Nord Lead stick. ;-) none of the pitch wheels you care to mention can do it. ;-)

Perhaps a 'proper' player may want to explore vibrato when assigning pitch to aftertouch?
Old 8th March 2014
  #373
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EvilDragon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I would disagree about that. Hear Jens Johansson for example. He has an amazing pitch wheel vibrato technique, and he gets it using a DX7 as a controller!



Actually sometimes I indeed do vibrato by aftertouch - but not using an LFO... aftertouch modulating the pitch directly by up to a semitone. Then I can control varying amounts of vibrato depending on amount of AT. Works excellently.
Old 8th March 2014
  #374
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
If you look at the video you will see that he's pushing the pitch wheel 'up' for fast vibrato. So that's unipolar only, but what if he were to do bipolar vibrato, so that we get vibrato akin to what's possible on a violin, acoustic guitar, or a voice? The pitch wheel has a 'dead' centre which would make this type of vibrato sound just bad. With the Nord Lead stick, you can do both types very easily, much more than having to wiggle your thumb up and down, like it was on acid or something.

Quote:
Actually sometimes I indeed do vibrato by aftertouch - but not using an LFO... aftertouch modulating the pitch directly by up to a semitone. Then I can control varying amounts of vibrato depending on amount of AT. Works excellently.
Sure, I like this technique as well (mentioned it above your post).

At the end of the day, we should strive for the best solutions to any given problem and not settle on compromised designs.
Old 8th March 2014
  #375
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EvilDragon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I also play the guitar... it doesn't matter if you bend the string up or down while doing the vibrato, the pitch will only ever raise up, so it's unipolar in fact - so Jens is doing it right here, since he's basically emulating lead guitar soloing. Also notice he sometimes goes below the pitch wheel center when ending the vibrato, that's quite interesting.

Also an interesting read about differential pitch bend wheel: Jens Johansson - How to make a "differential pitch wheel"


A different thing is if you're doing the "sideways" vibrato, as on violin (but also doable on guitar, of course)... but the difference is extremely subtle (at least on guitar, because of frets limiting the sideways vibrato motion - you don't want to slip over to other frets because that would just sound bad). I wouldn't even call it bipolar in this case.


Oh, there are rare times when I do vibrato using a ribbon controller. Nifty thing, especially the big one that I have attached to my PC3K8.
Old 8th March 2014
  #376
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NoVi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
He guys, I simply asked how I can use CV gate out with MS20Mini
Not intending to sparkle the absence of aftertouch discussion (again)
Old 8th March 2014
  #377
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I write:
Quote:
that's unipolar only
You write after that:

Quote:
it's unipolar in fact



Quote:
so Jens is doing it right here, since he's basically emulating lead guitar soloing
But that's not what is being questioned here!
All I'm saying is that the pitch wheel is unable to do full, bipolar vibrato. You can certainly keep ignoring this fact. Now, imagine if he had a Nord Stick instead, he would've been able to do all types of vibrato with much greater ease than with the wheel!

Quote:
Also notice he sometimes goes below the pitch wheel center when ending the vibrato, that's quite interesting.
Yes, I have noticed this. I use this technique myself. It works especially well on the Haken Continuum and the Seaboard (first hand experience with both).
Old 31st March 2014 | Show parent
  #378
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon ➑️
I also play the guitar... it doesn't matter if you bend the string up or down while doing the vibrato, the pitch will only ever raise up, so it's unipolar in fact
This is not true on the guitar if you are adding vibrato to a note you bent the string to get to in the first place. Then you can do bipolar vibrato, and also unipolar the other direction. I actually don't like a unipolar positive bend very much, and in my guitar playing (which is kind of minimal, I admit), I rarely put vibrato on an unbent string.
Old 31st March 2014
  #379
Gear Guru
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Well, that really depends on your style of playing, so...
Old 31st March 2014
  #380
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I was b.s'n with a guy I met on Craig's List (free internet classifieds in the US to those who don't know) who was interested in my (now sold) Prophet '08 and he remarked that he had a KingKorg and thought it was one of the most underrated modern synths currently made. This re-sparked my curiosity about it and I have to say that listening to the Korg demos make me want one of these. I have some questions though...

If you're using an aftertouch enabled keyboard via MIDI can you assign aftertouch as a modulation parameter? For instance, my Sub Phatty's keybed doesn't have aftertouch but it will respond to it from my Novation Remote.

How does it stack up to a software VA like Diva? It's hard for me to discern from the Youtube and Soundcloud files I've found, but my knee jerk reaction is that the KingKorg has a very analog "hardware" kind of sound. If someone knows of some a/b examples of it against what it's emulating and or other emulations I'd love to hear them.

Basically what I'm thinking is that I could keep one or two true analogs around (now which ones will be spark an internal epic war all of its own!) and consolidate my studio up a lot so that I could share that room with my wife who know has lost her office to this tiny terror who's slowly taking over... THE WORLD!

It's either that option or some fancy shelving solutions that may be able to make it work. If the KingKorg is in the neighborhood of modern plug ins, then it wouldn't make sense, especially with it's size and lack of aftertouch. Damn I wish Korg did a rack version like they did for the MS2000. Then it would be an easier decision... and maybe something fun to add just for the hell of it. Why is the synth manufacturer world so interested in all in one synthesizer models?
Old 31st March 2014 | Show parent
  #381
IBE
Gear Addict
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing ➑️
I was b.s'n with a guy I met on Craig's List (free internet classifieds in the US to those who don't know) who was interested in my (now sold) Prophet '08 and he remarked that he had a KingKorg and thought it was one of the most underrated modern synths currently made. This re-sparked my curiosity about it and I have to say that listening to the Korg demos make me want one of these. I have some questions though...

If you're using an aftertouch enabled keyboard via MIDI can you assign aftertouch as a modulation parameter? For instance, my Sub Phatty's keybed doesn't have aftertouch but it will respond to it from my Novation Remote.

How does it stack up to a software VA like Diva? It's hard for me to discern from the Youtube and Soundcloud files I've found, but my knee jerk reaction is that the KingKorg has a very analog "hardware" kind of sound. If someone knows of some a/b examples of it against what it's emulating and or other emulations I'd love to hear them.

Basically what I'm thinking is that I could keep one or two true analogs around (now which ones will be spark an internal epic war all of its own!) and consolidate my studio up a lot so that I could share that room with my wife who know has lost her office to this tiny terror who's slowly taking over... THE WORLD!

It's either that option or some fancy shelving solutions that may be able to make it work. If the KingKorg is in the neighborhood of modern plug ins, then it wouldn't make sense, especially with it's size and lack of aftertouch. Damn I wish Korg did a rack version like they did for the MS2000. Then it would be an easier decision... and maybe something fun to add just for the hell of it. Why is the synth manufacturer world so interested in all in one synthesizer models?
I dont know if the deal is still going but I got mines for $699 NIB a month ago. Guitar Center was blowing them out. This video may help you out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ3SX2Qtug0
Old 31st March 2014
  #382
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ModularOverkill's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
How does it stack up to a software VA like Diva?
Everything I've heard makes it sound great, with the additional theoretical advantage of having very low latency due to a DSP driven design (instead of a CPU driven design). (I'm assuming it has something like a SHARC or similar DSP for fast processing)

KK doesn't have quite the flexibility of Diva but it hits all the bases quite well.

Quote:
Why is the synth manufacturer world so interested in all in one synthesizer models?
Easier sale to bedroom and amateur musicians, which are the vast majority of their market.

Extremely underrated synth, its only failings seem to be somewhat cheap build and lack of knobs. I'm not getting rid of my P08 =) Oh, and the KK has CV outputs, which is convenient if you have other analog CV equipment.
Old 31st March 2014 | Show parent
  #383
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zerocrossing's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ModularOverkill ➑️
Everything I've heard makes it sound great, with the additional theoretical advantage of having very low latency due to a DSP driven design (instead of a CPU driven design). (I'm assuming it has something like a SHARC or similar DSP for fast processing)

KK doesn't have quite the flexibility of Diva but it hits all the bases quite well.



Easier sale to bedroom and amateur musicians, which are the vast majority of their market.

Extremely underrated synth, its only failings seem to be somewhat cheap build and lack of knobs. I'm not getting rid of my P08 =) Oh, and the KK has CV outputs, which is convenient if you have other analog CV equipment.
I'm an amateur/bedroom (well I have my own special room, but you get the picture) and that's exactly why I'd like to have modules and a single midi controller to play them with. I can get more variety for less money and fit it into less space.
Old 1st April 2014
  #384
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EvilDragon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Yes, you can assign AT via modulation matrix in the KK. RTFM
Old 29th April 2014
  #385
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CowboyNQ's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Thought I'd jump in as someone who's owned one of these beasties for a little while now. Might help someone looking to buy to have a user's view.

Looks - Fugly as all hell. Makes a statement and that statement is "avert your eyes".

Gigging - This is mighty as part of a live set up. Incredibly light and compact - really easy to schlep around to gigs and set up. Very easy to play live too as you can grab quite a few editing and effects options right off the knobs on the interface.

Keybed - Pretty ordinary. It's the same one as the Krome 61 (actually the physical aspects of this 'board are completely identical to Krome 61 save the knobs) which doesn't feel fantastic, but then again you're not going to play piano/clav on this thing.

Sound - PCM sounds are, for the most part, not that great. I wouldn't go anywhere near the pianos - yuk. However the VA stuff is WONDERFUL. Oh my goodness this sounds good. The first time I took it to rehearsal my band mates were blown away by its sound too. No it doesn't sound exactly like the Analogue gear it's modelling - but it's damn near close enough for live work I can tell you. Run it through a decent desk/PA and it will reward you live. Plus the obvious benefits of weight, cost, durability, tuning, etc. Really like the tube too.

I don't use it in a home studio type set up so I won't comment on how it sounds/works in that context. It's purely a live weapon for me. And what a weapon it is - inexpensive and delivers a massive punch if you use it for what (I believe) it's intended for.

I really love this 'board. However I would caution anyone wanting to buy it as a swiss army knife style 'board. What it does well, it does exceptionally well. But it's not an all-rounder and for me it's only part of an overall live set up.

Cheers!
Old 12th May 2014
  #386
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
I have been sleep deprived ever since I picked up my King Korg on Friday night. From watching youtube videos I knew in advance that I would like this synth. But I underestimated how good it is and how much I would like it. Having owned dozens of synths, I know how every once in a while a special model comes along that is really inspiring. That is exactly what happened to me with this one. The KK is so consuming that I decided to sell one other synth I recently bought and have been underutilizing. I might have to postpone my plan to buy a a Motif XF because the KK will keep me busy for quite a while.
Old 12th May 2014 | Show parent
  #387
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
i keep looking at reviews regarding this synth lately,i didnt like the initial look of the KK so i didnt order one BUT im thinking of getting one now,just the sound,its amazing,i just tried a demo and totally love the character of this synth
Old 12th May 2014
  #388
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ModularOverkill's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Easily the most underrated VA out there. I think the name, lack of knobs, and color are 50% of the reason it has been ignored.
Old 12th May 2014
  #389
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EvilDragon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I have nothing against its color. Champagne is cool.

I have everything against lack of aftertouch in that price range, though
Old 12th May 2014 | Show parent
  #390
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flat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I'm still interested in the KK, but the Nord A1 has my attention atm. I would prefer to see a smaller KK (4 octaves) with some more knobs and as ED points out, AT. and perhaps also expand it to 4 layers. I think at a slightly lower price point they would have a much better chance of selling what is indeed a very under-rated VA. It does sound very good indeed.

Also calling it something like the Korg Baldrick would at least raise a smile.
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