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King KORG Synthesizer
Old 30th April 2013
  #301
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wwjd's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
does KK have a "DRIFT" or "SLOP" function?
Old 30th April 2013
  #302
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99zulu's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I recently had a chance to play one of these. I won't talk about the sound as we've all heard it and at this point have a good idea of what's going on there.

The look is subjective. You may like it, you may not.

I haven't read this whole thread, but what I wanted to comment on was the feel. The feel is, in my opinion, terrible. The keybed felt way, way too light (synth action is one thing, but this felt like a toy). Squishy. No balls at all, I felt like I was going to break it. The whole thing felt incredibly cheap and surprised the hell out of me, because in pics and vids I was impressed with it. But in person? No way I would buy one.

And I'm not a Korg hater, not at all. I love most of what they've been doing lately and am excited for their products. If anything, I'm a Korg fanboy. So this one confused me. It's a great idea for a new product (in my opinion) but the feel of it turned me off something fierce. I'm glad I tried it out before I bought one. I'm pretty disappointed.

I really had no plans to say anything about this synth, but it just felt so bad to me that I thought I would pipe up here. Anyone else have an opinion on the keybed and overall build quality of this thing?

For reference, of the synths currently on the market I think the Jupiter-80 has the nicest-feeling synth-action keybed. I'm not a huge Roland fan otherwise. I don't sell any of these things, I'm just a midwestern office grunt who likes toys.
Old 30th April 2013 | Show parent
  #303
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login's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 99zulu ➡️
I recently had a chance to play one of these. I won't talk about the sound as we've all heard it and at this point have a good idea of what's going on there.

The look is subjective. You may like it, you may not.

I haven't read this whole thread, but what I wanted to comment on was the feel. The feel is, in my opinion, terrible. The keybed felt way, way too light (synth action is one thing, but this felt like a toy). Squishy. No balls at all, I felt like I was going to break it. The whole thing felt incredibly cheap and surprised the hell out of me, because in pics and vids I was impressed with it. But in person? No way I would buy one.

And I'm not a Korg hater, not at all. I love most of what they've been doing lately and am excited for their products. If anything, I'm a Korg fanboy. So this one confused me. It's a great idea for a new product (in my opinion) but the feel of it turned me off something fierce. I'm glad I tried it out before I bought one. I'm pretty disappointed.

I really had no plans to say anything about this synth, but it just felt so bad to me that I thought I would pipe up here. Anyone else have an opinion on the keybed and overall build quality of this thing?

For reference, of the synths currently on the market I think the Jupiter-80 has the nicest-feeling synth-action keybed. I'm not a huge Roland fan otherwise. I don't sell any of these things, I'm just a midwestern office grunt who likes toys.
I agree totally, the keybed is terrible.
Old 1st May 2013 | Show parent
  #304
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Got a chance to play one today, and its very good.

This is digital with a very 'liquid' body to it. Really a pure and musical tone here. If we take a look at what Korg has being doing over the years with their modelling technology, they have carved out a sound. Although not perfect emulations I enjoyed the characters of MS2000 and Radias.

This is quite a step above, and its audible.

The key bed didn't bother me as much a when I demo'd the Krome, but if my memory of my I'd Korg Z1 is correct that had a better key bed.

The knobs feel great. Overall really nice synth if you are looking for something dedicated. The price of many keyboards are steep if you compare them to software.

Not quite innovative, just a really solid synth.
Old 2nd May 2013 | Show parent
  #305
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Manu riga's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Well about the buildquality:

i am not impressed by that part of the kingkorg, its a very light board and it moves easily. the keys are not to disturbing to me, they feel okay , not wonderfull but playable.

one thing that disturbs me a little bit is the sensitivity of the controller knobs, a fly could change the value of your settings. Though the knobs are great quality and no sideway movement. but they are sooooo goddamn sensitive.

the sound the machine creates is far better then any synths in its price range but the buildquality isn't . Then again i feel the same with my Jupiter 50 and even my Kronos 61 which is more then twice the price.
the best cheap board for build quality is Ultranova
Old 8th May 2013 | Show parent
  #306
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Bullseye's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 99zulu ➡️
I recently had a chance to play one of these. I won't talk about the sound as we've all heard it and at this point have a good idea of what's going on there.

The look is subjective. You may like it, you may not.

I haven't read this whole thread, but what I wanted to comment on was the feel. The feel is, in my opinion, terrible. The keybed felt way, way too light (synth action is one thing, but this felt like a toy). Squishy. No balls at all, I felt like I was going to break it. The whole thing felt incredibly cheap and surprised the hell out of me, because in pics and vids I was impressed with it. But in person? No way I would buy one.

And I'm not a Korg hater, not at all. I love most of what they've been doing lately and am excited for their products. If anything, I'm a Korg fanboy. So this one confused me. It's a great idea for a new product (in my opinion) but the feel of it turned me off something fierce. I'm glad I tried it out before I bought one. I'm pretty disappointed.

I really had no plans to say anything about this synth, but it just felt so bad to me that I thought I would pipe up here. Anyone else have an opinion on the keybed and overall build quality of this thing?

For reference, of the synths currently on the market I think the Jupiter-80 has the nicest-feeling synth-action keybed. I'm not a huge Roland fan otherwise. I don't sell any of these things, I'm just a midwestern office grunt who likes toys.
+1
Old 10th May 2013
  #307
Deleted User
Guest
Its not the most useful synth. Only two sounds layered. No sequencer. No aftertouch. Limited controls. It costs similar to a Mopho X4. I like the sound...but what is with companies pulling back on features? I still kind of want one
Old 11th May 2013
  #308
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NoVi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Although I play synths for ca 30 yrs (MS20 being the first one), I didn't even notice that the synth has a light keybed before reading it here. Yes, it's lighter than other synths have, but nothing too shocking IMO. The knobs and chassis look sturdy to me. Because of its weight it has certainly the advantage of taking it with you on gigs etc.
Old 16th May 2013 | Show parent
  #309
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwjd ➡️
does KK have a "DRIFT" or "SLOP" function?
yes...there is a parameter called "analog tuning".
it can get extremely drifty if you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammytaters
Its not the most useful synth. Only two sounds layered. No sequencer. No aftertouch. Limited controls. It costs similar to a Mopho X4. I like the sound...but what is with companies pulling back on features? I still kind of want one
so...on that note, i picked up a KK and a monotribe, intending to use the monotribe as a bass mono via CV...well, you can't assign the CV out to either side of the split which is a real buzzkill. i already put in a feature request to korg for this in the next OS update.

the lack of aux outs means you can't separate the bass out from the pretty nice time based effects in the fx section. that sucks. the good news is that you can get the split to send to independent midi channels, so, you can still send to a mono synth for bass duties. if monotribe, this means you gotta get aftermarket midi kit. personally, im gonna return my monotribe and get a mopho for these purposes. there is just barely enough real estate on the top left to put a monotribe or mopho.

the plate and hall reverbs sound really, really good. i'd say they compared favorably with eventide space, although of course you don't get the benefits of all that parametric control. the room reverb i am not that happy with. it's getting swapped for hall or plate on any and all patches.

the oscillators are really vibrant for a VA.
i have been primarily using an alesis ion for sometime now and this definitely sounds like the sound is being processed at a much higher bit/sample rate than the ion. i don't want to say it is definitely better sounding than the ion, but, it definitely sounds like the physical sound quality is higher. ion always had really nice patches that were unique and useful, especially in the morph-y, stereo-y vein, and will remain that way for the foreseeable future i imagine. upon first glance, i think the kk is a bit more oriented towards center channel kind of patches, at least in the patches they have provided.

the acoustic piano sound is meh. the organs are good but the rotary sound is a bit meh, but, thats ok cause i got a rotosphere. the rhodes/wurli patches are killer, however. the mellotron flute/string patches are similarly amazing.

i think the filters sound really good. definitely better than the ion, to me. the resonance is really good, although definitely not as robust as a dsi resonant filters, if you must have that certain thing.

the keybed is very, very playable. the synth is extremely light. the routing options i am still exploring although i think you max out at 6 patch points if i am understanding it correctly.

the midi implementation is definitely not as flexible as the ion was.

all in all though, it's a superior beast for live use. my roomate just dropped close to twice as much on a used nord electro 2 and the only clear advantage i could hear was that you have drawbar control over the organ sounds, which is useful in dialing in that particular tone you need. the eq/tone controls on the KK are not as useful as drawbar control on organs for sure.

anyways, i apologize for the rambling nature of this post, but, all in all, i think it is a fantastic board that is completely usable in a studio situation. i don't think it would beat a dedicated studio setup by any means, but, if you play live at all, i think you would be insane not to consider it unless you can step up to the nord stage 2 level of pricing or have roadies and resources to haul your studio setup around.

all that have laid ears on it are impressed. i am looking forward to further diving into its innards.
Old 16th May 2013 | Show parent
  #310
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R3Member's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_low_tzu ➡️
yes...there is a parameter called "analog tuning".
it can get extremely drifty if you want.
One thing worth pointing out is that this feature is in few of Korg's synths and they sort of get it wrong. When you crank up this parameter, it forces the entire pitch of the timbre to drift, but not the individual oscillators. It's good for monophonic type sounds, but when using it for polysynth sounds, it doesn't generate that subtle chorus effect you hear on a real VCO polysynth.
Old 16th May 2013 | Show parent
  #311
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3Member ➡️
One thing worth pointing out is that this feature is in few of Korg's synths and they sort of get it wrong. When you crank up this parameter, it forces the entire pitch of the timbre to drift, but not the individual oscillators. It's good for monophonic type sounds, but when using it for polysynth sounds, it doesn't generate that subtle chorus effect you hear on a real VCO polysynth.
interesting...i hadn't noticed that quite yet, myself.

i suppose one possible workaround would be to use one of the lfo's to subtly modify osc 2 or 3 fine tune at a slow, drifty rate.
of course, it's too bad that you'd have to lose 1 lfo of 2 just to take care of that!
Old 16th May 2013
  #312
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R3Member's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Another trick is stacking two timbres together, then making them use one oscillator each. When you set the Analog Tune values differently for each timbre, you'll hear the two stacked oscillators drifting out of sync.
Old 16th May 2013 | Show parent
  #313
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3Member ➡️
Another trick is stacking two timbres together, then making them use one oscillator each. When you set the Analog Tune values differently for each timbre, you'll hear the two stacked oscillators drifting out of sync.
that is a great idea! i will definitely try it out when i get home!
Old 16th May 2013
  #314
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wwjd's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
can someone put the KK on an analyzer and tell me if the sound and/or filters go out to 20K? last korg I bought (x50) chopped off at like 14k or something and I really hear that and it annoys me. wondering if KK goes up and beyond like many real synths do
Old 3rd June 2013 | Show parent
  #315
MusicFan
Guest
disappointed

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicFan ➡️
Certainly not true, as you will have to realize if you listen to this excellent demo, which is the best KK demo, I've heard so far...

This synth is good, very, very good!



Although I usually don't post anymore on forums, I just have to rectify my above impression, which was solely based on Youtube videos.

But meanwhile I had the opportunity to play and program a KingKORG in reality and I am really very sorry to say, that I was hugely disappointed about its weak basic sound!

The VA engine of the KK is absolutely not comparable with the OASYS/Kronos VA engines (MS-20, Polysix and AL-1) which play in a completely different league.

But the huge difference in sonic quality and "mojo" finally isn't really astonishing, because the OASYS/Kronos offers much more processing power, than the cheap and plastic KingKORG, which is of course also reflected in the huge price difference.

The name "King"KORG is sheer mockery, considering that the sound of the KK isn't "King" at all.

Sorry folks for this hard verdict, but that's just my honest opinion...which will probably cause some down votes...

This experience proves again, that you cannot really build a reliable opinion based on Youtube demos. I failed miserably!

Old 3rd June 2013
  #316
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
How do you think they got around the "weak basic sound" to the degree that it fooled you in the web demo?
Old 3rd June 2013 | Show parent
  #317
MusicFan
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rouqmirg ➡️
How do you think they got around the "weak basic sound" to the degree that it fooled you in the web demo?
Probably because of this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicBern ➡️
That is a copy of KORG's demo's:

Virtual Analog Modeling Synthesizer | Korg KingKORG

Click on the speaker to go to the demo sound page

You may be hearing some compounded codecs there too as it sounds a tad less shrill than the originals:

KORG's recording to sound cloud (further codec if any) to The guy that recorded on his system to You Tube and any more digital codec losses.

You will only really realize the KK weaknesses, if you begin to compare its sonic character with other synths in reality. The very fast and accurate control of the KK's Envelopes and LFO's, also fooled me about its basic weak sound...

Old 3rd June 2013 | Show parent
  #318
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Bullseye's Avatar
I played a KK in a music store and was underwhelmed. Nonetheless, I am old enough to remember the initial reaction to instruments like the Roland 303 and its brothers and sisters. The bottom line is that it is not the instrument but the player that makes the biggest difference. That the KK does not sound like an 0BXa or a Prophet 12 for that matter is irrelevant to the ultimate usage.

For young players with little money this is a fine instrument and I guarantee someone out there will make something wonderful on it.
Old 3rd June 2013 | Show parent
  #319
MusicFan
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullseye ➡️

For young players with little money this is a fine instrument and I guarantee someone out there will make something wonderful on it.
+1
Old 5th June 2013
  #320
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Does this sound better tan Radias? (I mean, a bit less digital?)
Old 8th June 2013 | Show parent
  #321
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by flat earth ➡️
Hasn't it always been like that? (not ARP) The Japanese companies never seem to refer to each other in their equipment. ie afaik, the JP80 doesn't have any Korg or Yamaha modeled filters. It always seems to be American synths. (Moog, SCI, Oberheim etc)

Maybe they like to pretend neither of each other exist. (arch rivals and all that nonsence)
ARP was an American company.

Quote:
Originally Posted by messiaen ➡️
you can buy a...mopho x 4 for about the same money
True, Mopho x4 gives you real analog and aftertouch for the same money. But only 44 keys, 4-note polyphony, and a far more limited sonic palette in terms of available waveforms and filters. So really, they each have some very significant advantages over the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldphinga ➡️
a synth at this price should have an aftertouch keybed
No 61-key keyboard with sounds has AT at this price, except the recently reduced Kurzweil PC3LE6.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skira ➡️
Yes, it's a little strange that you can get aftertouch on an Ultranova which costs half as much.
But look what the Ultranova doesn't have compared to the KK. Individually, there are tons of great features you can find in low priced keyboards, but you can't get them all in the same keyboard and still have it low priced.

Still, Korg had to realize lack of AT was going to be a significant knock on this board. I guess the price was the bigger consideration. Some people have complained that they feel it's already overpriced at $1299, maybe Korg felt there would be less resistance to that than, say, a $1499 price point for a design that included AT. Personally, I'd like to see a 73/76 key version with AT, even at, say, $1699. Maybe some day...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jondis ➡️
The King Korg is basically a microkorg xl with normal keys and less functionality.
Obviously, the KK has a lot of features over the MK-XL. How do you see less functionality? What does the XL have that the KK lacks?
Old 8th June 2013 | Show parent
  #322
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flat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherscott ➡️
ARP was an American company.
Errrrr...yep?????, hence why I put 'Not ARP' in brackets
Old 8th June 2013 | Show parent
  #323
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skira's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Yes, it's a little strange that you can get aftertouch on an Ultranova which costs half as much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherscott ➡️
But look what the Ultranova doesn't have compared to the KK.
There are always tradeoffs but the point is that when you have much less expensive synths offering aftertouch it's weak sauce for a company to argue against adding it to a much more expensive synth. For me and a lot of other people aftertouch expressiveness is a very useful feature that should not be left out of a $1300 synth.
Old 8th June 2013 | Show parent
  #324
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by flat earth ➡️
Errrrr...yep?????, hence why I put 'Not ARP' in brackets
Ah. The way I read it, I thought "(not ARP)" meant "hasn't it always been the case that synths don't emulate ARPs, and I thought you were saying that has always been common because Japanese synths haven't emulated other Japanese synths! Sorry for misunderstanding.

Back to some other points as I read the thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike ➡️
FWIW many live gigging players myself included do not like aftertouch, it's the last thing I want to worry about when banging away live,

ooopppss I hit the key to hard, or I am pressing on it to hard during a sustain and there goes my sound.
You can generally enable or disable AT on a patch-by-patch basis. It can feel very expressive to use, and is especially nice when you can't spare your left hand for a wheel because it's playing another part on a split or additional keyboard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammytaters ➡️
Its not the most useful synth. Only two sounds layered. No sequencer. No aftertouch. Limited controls. It costs similar to a Mopho X4. I like the sound...but what is with companies pulling back on features? I still kind of want one
The sound is really the thing. Sometimes getting the sound you want, at a given price, means less in other features. For everything the KK lacks, you can find some other nice attribute it has that some other board lacks. Personally, I hope to never have to buy another keyboard with a sequencer. I have tons of them, and never use the things. For me, all they do is clutter up the interface!
Old 8th June 2013 | Show parent
  #325
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by skira ➡️
There are always tradeoffs but the point is that when you have much less expensive synths offering aftertouch it's weak sauce for a company to argue against adding it to a much more expensive synth. For me and a lot of other people aftertouch expressiveness is a very useful feature that should not be left out of a $1300 synth.
Since numerous cheap 61-key controllers sell for $199, and the cheapest ones with AT sell for $399, I think it's safe to assume that adding AT to a board should account for no more than $200 of the price. So if KK was designed to sell for $1299, if you don't want it's price to go up, perhaps as much as something approaching $200 worth of "other stuff" would have had to have been removed. What dispensible? The tube? Some polyphony? Bitimbral split/layer function? Some of the knobbage? Vocoder? The extra pair of OLED displays? The fifth octave of keys? Some of its sonic capabilities? I don't know, I don't know what these things add to the price, and I doubt we'd find a lot of agreement about what to lose anyway, but $1300 is still not an "expensive" synth. There are lots of $1300+ synths that don't have AT. How much are the cheapest Rolands, Nords, or Yamahas with AT? Or how about trying to find a Moog with AT? It simply isn't the case that the market "expects" aftertouch at $1300, and the few relatively low cost boards that have it will fall short somewhere else, so as you say, it's tradeoffs. I really do wish the KK had AT, but I understand why it may not be a no-brainer of a design decision.
Old 8th June 2013 | Show parent
  #326
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skira's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherscott ➡️
Since numerous cheap 61-key controllers sell for $199, and the cheapest ones with AT sell for $399, I think it's safe to assume that adding AT to a board should account for no more than $200 of the price. So if KK was designed to sell for $1299, if you don't want it's price to go up, perhaps as much as something approaching $200 worth of "other stuff" would have had to have been removed. .
The cost to replace a non-AT keyboard with one that has it certainly is less than $200, and a $200 difference between a controller with it and without it cannot be directly attributable simply to AT. Moreover, when a valuable feature like AT is included on a synth higher sales may well offset the lower profit margin per unit if sold at the same price.

Bottom line: Korg is losing potential sales for its $1300 synth, and aftertouch-enabled synths costing the same (or even less than half) have the feature.
Old 8th June 2013 | Show parent
  #327
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by skira ➡️
The cost to replace a non-AT keyboard with one that has it certainly is less than $200
To be clear, "cost" and "what it would add to the price" are two different things. Every difference in cost gets marked up by the manufacturer, the distributor, and the retailer. So a (for example) $60 increase in manufacturing cost could turn into $200 difference in selling price. But I agree, it probably doesn't add quite that much, I just deduced that that should be about the maximum it might be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skira ➡️
a $200 difference between a controller with it and without it cannot be directly attributable simply to AT.
I don't know what percentage of the $200 delta is from aftertouch, but it could possibly be a large percentage of it. But even if it's half, you still either have to raise the price of the KK by $100, or take out other stuff to compensate, that's basically what I was trying to say.

Now, whether the feature would increase sales by enough to risk a lower profit margin is a more complicated question, and it could be an expensive mistake if you guess the wrong answer. So that would take some market analysis, which perhaps they did. But the only place they can cut is into their own profit margins. Distributors and dealers are not going to cut theirs. If a dealer has two $1300 keyboards in stock, and he pays more for one of them, which do you think he's going to prefer to sell?
Old 8th June 2013 | Show parent
  #328
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skira's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherscott ➡️
To be clear, "cost" and "what it would add to the price" are two different things.
Which is why I differentiated them, in two different sentences. To be clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherscott ➡️
you still either have to raise the price of the KK by $100, or take out other stuff to compensate, that's basically what I was trying to say.
Yes, I read that the 1st time you wrote it. I just disagreed with that closed-loop interpretation. Businesses regularly take a lower profit margin to gain lower component costs and increased sales, which can make up those otherwise lost margins, even increasing revenue. It's silly to think that the only possible alternative to including a valuable feature is to cut something else. It simply does not have to happen the way you claim.
Old 10th June 2013 | Show parent
  #329
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwjd ➡️
can someone put the KK on an analyzer and tell me if the sound and/or filters go out to 20K? last korg I bought (x50) chopped off at like 14k or something and I really hear that and it annoys me. wondering if KK goes up and beyond like many real synths do
yea i actually just did this. according to ableton's "spectrum" device, the filter range is 22.5 Hz to 20.9 kHz- not bad at all and beyond the bounds of my hearing range.

one problem i have run into so far is that there is no pitch envelope generator. that is a bummer. there is portamento which i used instead in this case and it sounded great, but, im sure there is a discerning synthesist who could not do without.

i think the subbass patch sounds very nice and is very easy to use.

as far as the comments about the "weak basic sound", im not really sure what they mean...to me the pads and subbass patches sit really well in my mixes so far. they are bright and direct and can be warmed up nicely with the tube also. if you gain stage it properly i think that helps...are we sure the outputs aren't a bit less hot than analogues?

just my experience
Old 10th June 2013 | Show parent
  #330
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verve92's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by login ➡️
I agree totally, the keybed is terrible.
Most modern key beds are bad under $1000 maybe more.
We all have to adjust.
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