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switching from Live to Cubase
Old 26th January 2013
  #1
switching from Live to Cubase

has anyone done this?

I love Live, but I originally worked for years with Logic 9 and really miss the mixing environment and more advanced features but me and Logic just don't get along

I've been doing a ton or research, even managed to get my hands on all of Cubase 7's documentation


some of the things that are keeping me from making the switch are:


hopes that Ableton will get their **** together and do some major changes before Live 9 is officially released

automation - you don't have to go through menus or record automation to get to a parameter, Live 9 has decent automation curves (cubase has parabola tool but doesn't seem as useful)

groups - I rely on this a lot, I use them as busses and make it simple to minor level or unclutter the mixer, only down side is the lack of groups within group

drumracks - this is one of my favorite thins about live, make it ridiculously easy for me to build my drums with complete freedom over each layer

simpler - another big deal, it's just simple, drag and drop, no opening of extr windows, I just wish it had higher quality sampling like Battery or Kontakt

wrapping - very easy to use, but seems like Cubase can do almost exactly the same thing although not as quickly

effects groups - make it really simple to add multiple parameters to a single knob for easy automation

playing from whatever is selected using the spacebar, this make life so much easier than having to set a loop to start and top from a certain point like in Logic (Cubase has an option to play from selection, does this work the same as Live?)

no dongle - I use a macbook pro so this would take one of my two only USB slots

supports Snow Leopard - Cubase 7 is Lion and up, I'd rather stay with Snow Leopard if possible

AU support - I stuck with AUs after moving from Logic, would have to re-install all my plug-ins as VSTs to use with Cubase, not a huge deal though

freeze flatten - not as easy or intuitive as Logic's bounce in place, but it seem like Cubase is even more of a pain


some of the things that make me want to switch to Cubase 7 are:


better audio engine and CPU performance than Live - not saying that Live sounds like crap, what I mean is that Live's audio engine overloads way too quickly, before I can even use half my CPU

better mixing environment than live - proper floating mixer (mix console looks awesome) that would allow me to use multiple screens again if I want to, mixer zoom, proper busses and sends, etc.

better built-in effects - this is debatable but it seems like this is the case according to a lot of what I've read

32-bit bridge - I'm on a mac and don't want to deal with jbridge which doesn't seem to be fully supported yet

folders - you can have folders inside folder inside folders forever, still requires you to route the tracks to their own busses/groups but still awesome

audio editing seems great, multi-take comping, effects on separate events that can be changed later if you need to

vary audio and pitchcorrect - built-in melodyne type pitch editing and auto-tune plug-in? hell yea!

undo after saving - not being able to do this scares the hell out of me in Live and causes me to constantly save new copies of projects over little changes

freezing without effects - I really though Live 9 would address this as it's such a basic feature that most other DAWs have

MP3 encoding - not a giant deal but I often with I could just render MP3s, specially when exporting multiple clips for clients

full MIDI editing - Live 9 got a little better with this but still not as full features as it is in Logic or Cubase

multiple outputs for instruments - this requires them to be used with the instrument rack but I could definitely see myself getting some use out of this, specially with Battery and Kontakt



Cubase IC Pro iphone/ipad app - this is a big plus for me, there are some decent apps for Live but they're more based on performance rather than mixing


I'd love to hear stories on how you guys deal with doing the switch, if you still use Live for some things, if you never looked back to live, etc

are the alternatives I talk about (eq. Cubase's warping) easy to get used to? is the alternative to freeze flattening a decent replacement? is it hard to work with group busses? etc etc


ps. mods, please don't move this into music computer as I make electronic music and would like to hear electronic music biased opinions on this!
Old 26th January 2013
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
I'm sure plenty of Cubase folks will chime in with useful stuff but I'm a Mac Live user too and if you haven't already done so I'd suggest giving S1 a trial.
Old 26th January 2013
  #3
Eat
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
why switch... use both. to me it'd be like ditching the hammer for a screwdriver or vice versa. each tool does a certain thing better than the other
Old 26th January 2013
  #4
Gear Head
 
Iconoclasm's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Allegedly Bitwig Studio should be released sometime this year and I'm definitely interested in that bastard.

Consider it?
Old 26th January 2013
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eat ➑️
why switch... use both. to me it'd be like ditching the hammer for a screwdriver or vice versa. each tool does a certain thing better than the other
Not a big fan or rewiring

plus, Live doesn't support 3rd party plugins while in rewire mode which pretty much renders it useless for me
Old 26th January 2013
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iconoclasm ➑️
Allegedly Bitwig Studio should be released sometime this year and I'm definitely interested in that bastard.

Consider it?
Not holding my breath for it, longest I'm waiting is for Live 9's official release
Old 26th January 2013
  #7
Gear Guru
 
SWAN808's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I think there is a demo coming for Cubase 7 apparently...

You can always use Live rewire into Cubase as an option-might be a drag but might be a best of both worlds...edit:this can be cool because then your 3rd party stuff runs on Cubase with more power - but you still get session view and can jam with Drumracks, simpler and audio...pipe it into Cubase...I think its got potential tbh...if you set up 2 templates then just load them and get writing...chord tracks and vari audio look very enticing. I would use Nerve for drums.

Im even considering going back to Logic and rewire Live in...

for me personally Im not gonna rush into anything but maybe try some things out and also wait for bitwig...
Old 26th January 2013
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 ➑️
I think there is a demo coming for Cubase 7 apparently...

You can always use Live rewire into Cubase as an option-might be a drag but might be a best of both worlds...

Im even considering going back to Logic and rewire Live in...

for me personally Im not gonna rush into anything but maybe try some things out and also wait for bitwig...
Demo should be out in the next couple of month when all the bugs are sorted out, will require the USB eLicenser to try though

I'll probably just wait until they have it installed at my local music store to try it, they're still running 6.5 sadly
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #9
Eat
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmicide ➑️
Not a big fan or rewiring

plus, Live doesn't support 3rd party plugins while in rewire mode which pretty much renders it useless for me
i meant as separate entities entirely. i mean, for me live works for the whole electronic, sample, clips, type of song creation while logic (or cubase, etc) does the traditional song based recording instruments thing
Old 26th January 2013
  #10
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmicide ➑️


better audio engine and CPU performance than Live - not saying that Live sounds like crap, what I mean is that Live's audio engine overloads way too quickly, before I can even use half my CPU
That sounds weird, you've got the audio buffer set to something sensible, right?
Old 26th January 2013
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by jizmatron ➑️
That sounds weird, you've got the audio buffer set to something sensible, right?
1024 with an Apogee One

I have an i7 quadcore, most peeps with similar processors experience the same results

Ableton has acknowledged this on the beta forums and asked us to just compare Live 9's performance to Live 8's

Live 9 seems to have 10% improvement over Live 8

That just doesn't cut it for me
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmicide ➑️
1024 with an Apogee One

I have an i7 quadcore, most peeps with similar processors experience the same results

Ableton has acknowledged this on the beta forums and asked us to just compare Live 9's performance to Live 8's

Live 9 seems to have 10% improvement over Live 8

That just doesn't cut it for me
Man i'm in the same boat as you. I'm on the L9 beta, but it is really dissapointing. I've had my eye on Cubase for a long time, and this latest release has me teetering over the edge about make the jump. I just...love Live...

If you do switch over to cubase, please give us a shout about whether or not you think that is a good idea..

I'm guessing, like myself, you don't use the session view of Live too much?

I think Live really shines for session view players, but lacks hardcore in arrangement view. It seems like Cubase would be better for someone like you or me who does most of their work in arrangement (again just making assumptions about your workflow based on your pros and cons)..but I just can't commit to Cubase without trying it for myself...Gahhhh what to do, what to do...
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addixion ➑️
Man i'm in the same boat as you. I'm on the L9 beta, but it is really dissapointing. I've had my eye on Cubase for a long time, and this latest release has me teetering over the edge about make the jump. I just...love Live...

If you do switch over to cubase, please give us a shout about whether or not you think that is a good idea..

I'm guessing, like myself, you don't use the session view of Live too much?

I think Live really shines for session view players, but lacks hardcore in arrangement view. It seems like Cubase would be better for someone like you or me who does most of their work in arrangement (again just making assumptions about your workflow based on your pros and cons)..but I just can't commit to Cubase without trying it for myself...Gahhhh what to do, what to do...
that's exactly my problem man, I love Live but it's just not a complete production tool

I only use the session view for DJing, which I've actually been turning away from and trying to get more into Traktor
Old 26th January 2013
  #14
Deleted c17bd65
Guest
I decided to make the switch over PDC issues in Live 8 that haven't been solved in Live 9 and I've heard cubase can handle a higher track load. More than anything I want to try something with more depth. Even if a number of simple things in Ableton are more complex in Cubase I just want to keep building new neural connections as I feel pretty comfortable in Ableton.
Old 26th January 2013
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Polarelch's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I am new to Live, and will use it as a DAW for composing and beginning a new track.. arranging etc. When it comes to the mixing, I am going to use Studio One. You should take a look at the free demo
Old 26th January 2013
  #16
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Sounds like you want samplitude tbqh. Shame you're on mac.

Cubase FX are no where as near as good as what comes with Suite imo.

S1 is good, next version will be amazing most likely. The display could be sharper and the faders longer.
Old 26th January 2013
  #17
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
its better period! nothing ableton can do cubase cant and in the same time manner, Imade the jump at ableton 7 to cubase sx 3 I hated ableton so much.
Old 26th January 2013
  #18
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
I made the switch from Live to Cubase after using Live since it was basically released. Details of the transition is really to much to go in to here except I want to mention a couple of things.

You will be pleasantly surprised how you can actually manipulate audio with Cubase. Live pretends it can - but in reality it cant because the whole premise of the software slaves you to its warping/marker ideology. I love setting up a track and loop recording in Cubase - especially when recording hardware. Picking out the best sections and making something fluky and funky. Live can do this but its like pulling teeth. Audio editing and manipulation far superior in Cubase.

I got around the drum racks thing by picking up Nerve. Honestly, I cant advocate that drum machine enough when working with a Daw and its uber effective and imho is way better than drum racks.

I hear you in regards simpler. I dont miss it now but it was a biggie for me (or at least I thought it was). I didnt pick up an alternative and cant say I have missed it anything like as much as I thought I would. I use Maschine when I want to play rendered samples chromatically. The fact it takes a tiny bit longer to organise does mean I spend more time cultivating the sample and making it work. Or I might just add a sample to Nerve if its something like a chord sample or any other static type thing. Even then though I can change pitch of samples as they play back in Nerve.

Mixing, groups etc far superior in Cubase. Automation is better to when using latch type modes.

Latency much better in Cubase. Live is terrible in this area - even when you go out of your way to use
zero latency plugins that software still has a lot of latency. Once a track is half built and your using groups, plugins fx etc it becomes almost impossible to play a VST synth in real time using Live. I cant believe I put up with that for so long. In Cubase you wont get anything like that level of latency even when you have loads of plugins on the go. I think theres something wrong with Lives latency compensation. I have no proof but others have commented on this as well. Theres just weirdness which goes on - even just adding a group and sending stuff to it seems to add latency.

you will miss some of lives instantness in the early days but once you get up to speed with your new Daw you wont give it a second thought. OH, and one thing you wont miss is Lives super hyper mouse click intensiveness. That software wins the trophy in that area.

As a former Live user may I also suggest you look at Pro tools if the idea of actually manipulating audio appeals to you. I like Pro tools and Cubase but if I really had to choose it would probably be PTs. I did not like S1. Its fine if you work with audio only but lacks when you compose electronic stuff. As I recall there were a number of little detailed features missing that are common in Daws (except live) and talking of which - it was Lives lack of basic but essential tools which eventually made me go bye bye. I didn't want to go to another Daw where I was in a position of having to wait years for it to play catch up. Choose carefully.
Old 26th January 2013
  #19
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
not super experienced with Live, but I can chime in (only on Cubase 6 though)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmicide ➑️
has anyone done this?
automation - you don't have to go through menus or record automation to get to a parameter, Live 9 has decent automation curves (cubase has parabola tool but doesn't seem as useful)
more intuitive in Live, because it has MIDI learn. Cubase has "quick controls" but you have to map them yourself.

Quote:
groups - I rely on this a lot, I use them as busses and make it simple to minor level or unclutter the mixer, only down side is the lack of groups within group
Cubase rocks at this, you can have groups routed to groups routed to groups, very easy.

Quote:
drumracks - this is one of my favorite thins about live, make it ridiculously easy for me to build my drums with complete freedom over each layer
only read about this on forums (and it sounds awesome), but no such equivalent that I know of

Quote:
simpler - another big deal, it's just simple, drag and drop, no opening of extr windows, I just wish it had higher quality sampling like Battery or Kontakt
see above :(

Quote:
wrapping - very easy to use, but seems like Cubase can do almost exactly the same thing although not as quickly
like from 32-bit plugins on 64-bit? never tried because 6 was buggy i heard

Quote:
effects groups - make it really simple to add multiple parameters to a single knob for easy automation

playing from whatever is selected using the spacebar, this make life so much easier than having to set a loop to start and top from a certain point like in Logic (Cubase has an option to play from selection, does this work the same as Live?)
not that I know of


Quote:
some of the things that make me want to switch to Cubase 7 are:


better audio engine and CPU performance than Live - not saying that Live sounds like crap, what I mean is that Live's audio engine overloads way too quickly, before I can even use half my CPU

better mixing environment than live - proper floating mixer (mix console looks awesome) that would allow me to use multiple screens again if I want to, mixer zoom, proper busses and sends, etc.
emphatic yes

Quote:
better built-in effects - this is debatable but it seems like this is the case according to a lot of what I've read
emphatic no, they are very vanilla and ill suited for electronic music imo

Quote:
folders - you can have folders inside folder inside folders forever, still requires you to route the tracks to their own busses/groups but still awesome

audio editing seems great, multi-take comping, effects on separate events that can be changed later if you need to

vary audio and pitchcorrect - built-in melodyne type pitch editing and auto-tune plug-in? hell yea!

undo after saving - not being able to do this scares the hell out of me in Live and causes me to constantly save new copies of projects over little changes

freezing without effects - I really though Live 9 would address this as it's such a basic feature that most other DAWs have

MP3 encoding - not a giant deal but I often with I could just render MP3s, specially when exporting multiple clips for clients

full MIDI editing - Live 9 got a little better with this but still not as full features as it is in Logic or Cubase

multiple outputs for instruments - this requires them to be used with the instrument rack but I could definitely see myself getting some use out of this, specially with Battery and Kontakt
yes all around
Old 26th January 2013
  #20
Gear Addict
 
Releaux's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I often feel like the only person here who uses it (and maybe I am), but have you looked at Digital Performer at all? It meets most if not all of the criteria you mention. I've been using it since Opcode bit the dust and have never found anything I liked better overall.

The only reason I still have Live Studio 8 is for those times when I feel like I'm in a compositional rut and need the shake up of a different interface approach. Live also makes using discrete sub-patterns more like Studio Vision Pro did, which is one of the few things DP never embraced.

I'd post your question and list over on motunation.com and see what kind of responses you get. You might do the same on a cubase forum as well.

Good luck!

Edit: one caveat - I have been using Digital Performer for 15 years or so, so I've learned lots of the shortcuts, kludges, and workarounds that might frustrate a new user... The folks over at motunation will likely have more insight on directly comparable features that don't bug me because I'm not as good with Live.

Last edited by Releaux; 26th January 2013 at 05:11 PM.. Reason: Added final thought.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #21
Deleted 60622ed
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polarelch ➑️
I am new to Live, and will use it as a DAW for composing and beginning a new track.. arranging etc. When it comes to the mixing, I am going to use Studio One. You should take a look at the free demo
This is what i do


I have pro tools and logic, but i love mixing in studio one...never tried cubase though, but i dont feel i have to
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #22
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by teknatronik ➑️
its better period! nothing ableton can do cubase cant and in the same time manner, Imade the jump at ableton 7 to cubase sx 3 I hated ableton so much.
Besides drum racks, session view, session automation, integration with better controllers, etc...

It's just not fair to say that Cubase can do everything live can...because it's wrong.

But that goes the same way... Live can't do everything Cubase can and vice versa... neither has to be better than the other, they're just different.
Old 27th January 2013
  #23
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
i switched from live 7 to cubase 6 2 years ago. I do not miss live.
Old 27th January 2013
  #24
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
The coolest thing I've done in Live that Cubase can't emulate is making a 808/909 esque step sequencer using some instrument racks and lemur for iPad(which only sent MIDI CC's and involved no scripting).
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #25
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addixion ➑️
Besides drum racks, session view, session automation, integration with better controllers, etc...

It's just not fair to say that Cubase can do everything live can...because it's wrong.

But that goes the same way... Live can't do everything Cubase can and vice versa... neither has to be better than the other, they're just different.
used both and cubase is by far a superior daw in my eyes
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceacademy ➑️
I made the switch from Live to Cubase after using Live since it was basically released. Details of the transition is really to much to go in to here except I want to mention a couple of things.

You will be pleasantly surprised how you can actually manipulate audio with Cubase. Live pretends it can - but in reality it cant because the whole premise of the software slaves you to its warping/marker ideology. I love setting up a track and loop recording in Cubase - especially when recording hardware. Picking out the best sections and making something fluky and funky. Live can do this but its like pulling teeth. Audio editing and manipulation far superior in Cubase.
that's great to hear! how are things like automating the pitch of samples though? I do a lot of cutting and pitching samples by cropping and using the transpose option a lot

I see that this can be done in cubase but it requires you having to go through a couple of menus, seems making your own shortcuts for this type of stuff would make it almost as quick as Live? or would Variaudio would be the best way to do this?

one thing that is really attractive about Cubase to me is that you can do all types of pitching and manipulation of samples nondestructively unlike Logic

Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceacademy ➑️
I got around the drum racks thing by picking up Nerve. Honestly, I cant advocate that drum machine enough when working with a Daw and its uber effective and imho is way better than drum racks

I hear you in regards simpler. I dont miss it now but it was a biggie for me (or at least I thought it was). I didnt pick up an alternative and cant say I have missed it anything like as much as I thought I would. I use Maschine when I want to play rendered samples chromatically. The fact it takes a tiny bit longer to organise does mean I spend more time cultivating the sample and making it work. Or I might just add a sample to Nerve if its something like a chord sample or any other static type thing. Even then though I can change pitch of samples as they play back in Nerve.
the thing I like about drum racks is that I can apply whatever processing I want to each sample I use in simpler while keeping everything on the same track

I do a lot of layering so the drum racks and simpler are extremely useful for me

I used Battery for that type of stuff before I switched to Live, it's got a lof of very useful effects but the EQ doesn't cut it for me and it just simply doesn't give me as much freedom as the drum racks

I could start using Battery again in Cubase on the instrument rack with multiple outputs, but then I'd have all these tracks on the mixer plus the group for each drum (only kick and snare for the most part though)

this could possibly work, but then my problem would be importing my drums to new projects which speeds up my workflow a lot when working on new tracks

I suppose I could make templates with everything already set up, I really need to try it to see how I could make this work though

Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceacademy ➑️
Mixing, groups etc far superior in Cubase. Automation is better to when using latch type modes.
how is mixing with groups? do you have to scroll all the way to the group or can you place them next to the tracks? is there a way to have the track with the group it's going to show up on the side when a track is selected a-la Logic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceacademy ➑️
Latency much better in Cubase. Live is terrible in this area - even when you go out of your way to use
zero latency plugins that software still has a lot of latency. Once a track is half built and your using groups, plugins fx etc it becomes almost impossible to play a VST synth in real time using Live. I cant believe I put up with that for so long. In Cubase you wont get anything like that level of latency even when you have loads of plugins on the go. I think theres something wrong with Lives latency compensation. I have no proof but others have commented on this as well. Theres just weirdness which goes on - even just adding a group and sending stuff to it seems to add latency.

you will miss some of lives instantness in the early days but once you get up to speed with your new Daw you wont give it a second thought. OH, and one thing you wont miss is Lives super hyper mouse click intensiveness. That software wins the trophy in that area.
I really feel like this will be the case for me, I was already a Logic used for a good number of years and was able to get by until I got tired of the bugs, crashing, overloads, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceacademy ➑️
As a former Live user may I also suggest you look at Pro tools if the idea of actually manipulating audio appeals to you. I like Pro tools and Cubase but if I really had to choose it would probably be PTs. I did not like S1. Its fine if you work with audio only but lacks when you compose electronic stuff. As I recall there were a number of little detailed features missing that are common in Daws (except live) and talking of which - it was Lives lack of basic but essential tools which eventually made me go bye bye. I didn't want to go to another Daw where I was in a position of having to wait years for it to play catch up. Choose carefully.
my only problem with PT is that I'm really big on MIDI, most my projects consists of 80% MIDI

Cubase just seems extremely well rounded

Variaudio and PitchCorrect are a ginormous plus too, I absolutely hate working with Melodyne and I never need auto-tune enough to buy it
Old 27th January 2013
  #27
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Question for cubase mac users... how is the cpu usage compared to Live?

This is one of my major concerns with switching over... anybody have experience with both that would like to share?
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addixion ➑️
Question for cubase mac users... how is the cpu usage compared to Live?

This is one of my major concerns with switching over... anybody have experience with both that would like to share?
the consensus seems to be that you can load about double*** as many plug-ins as Live
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #29
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmicide ➑️
the consensus seems to be that you can load about half as many plug-ins as Live
Well then there goes that plan.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addixion ➑️
Well then there goes that plan.
MY BAD I mean to say double as many!
πŸ“ Reply

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