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New Korg MS-20 Mini
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2611
Deleted 7a792f4
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by remote337 ➑️
All I'm saying is that if some people say the noise level is low then perhaps some units are worse than others.
this

Questions:

1. *Are* some units noisier than others?

2. perhaps ranking the MS-20 mini noise against the noise or the Monotron & Monotribe (and ultimately the Volcas) would be more fair.
Who here has a Monotron-E module? did that Module have a replaced/redesigned VCA?
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2612
Registered User
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax ➑️
right it gets slightly more complicated to evaluate original MS-20s because of the different revisions (which btw aren't necessarily differentiable from the front panel screws) and of course the aging components.. for example in that original MS thread OP's sounds rather bright and clearly displays the hiss (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/5495904-post1.html) then a few posts down another user example sounds a lot muddier (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/5496926-post8.html) making the hiss much harder to identify... my gut feeling is that the original MS-20 is prone to the noise/hiss issue.. it was always in my mind a cheap dirty mono synth... i think many didn't like it much at the time it came out either (it became cult in lo-fi new-wave and then much later in dirty electro edm) basically what i'm saying is it isn't for everyone.. an acquired taste perhaps
I've read a number of people talking about the original MS-20 (before the reissue was announced) saying that it was noisy/gritty/hissy and they were unsure why there was ever hype about it when it first came out. I think the people prone to complaining about these "noise" issues seem to be multi-generational
Old 11th June 2013
  #2613
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Jeez you guys are so nasty!!! It has noise, not "noise"!
Old 11th June 2013
  #2614
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
yeah well... there's a quota for things to argue about round these parts, and we aim to fill it!
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2615
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
If you don't want noise, of course you can send your MS-20 back to all those people waiting in line. Thanks to other posters on this thread, I managed to snag one from Kraft Music. Ordered it Friday, got it today. Are you sure you want to pay $60 extra for shipping to get it Tuesday instead of Wednesday, the nice man asked? YES YES! OMFG YES!

My first journey into analog synth. Long overdue, given that I'm two years older than the first VCS3s!
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2616
Lives for gear
 
R3Member's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by remote337 ➑️
All I'm saying is that if some people say the noise level is low then perhaps some units are worse than others.
So here we go again with the same thing. Which people are you even referring to? Please provide direct quotes. As far as I can remember, the few people whom have popped up here actually owning the Mini have fallen into two camps:

1. They are happy with their Mini, realize that it does indeed have a noisy quality to it, but don't consider it a problem because so does the original.

2. They are unhappy with it, initially thinking their might be a problem with it, and have returned after realizing it doesn't suit them.

So far, I don't think anyone has made the claim saying that one Mini might be noisier than another other than the few people (non-owners) whom have flip flopped their criticisms after people have pointed out that it's just as noisy as the original. No offense, but you don't even own a Mini and have even stated that you have no intentions of buying one. You're practically beating a dead horse with an imaginary stick here.

So again, here are those links:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/5495904-post1.html
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/5496789-post7.html

Go buy yourself a Mini, listen to those first two sound clips and compare it. If you're not going to even buy the thing and try it yourself, there's really no validity in posting here anymore.
Old 11th June 2013
  #2617
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
god damn I am sick of seeing all these toxic noise posts instead of worthwhile discussion.

want some actual content?

MS 20 Patch: Squelchy Vocal : ms20

MS 20 Patch: Ring Mod S+H triggered by MG : ms20

youtube videos I made today of patch design and explanation behind the patches, plus imgur pics of the iMS-20 with all the exact knob positions I use to start the patch.

Would love some more contributors to the subreddit. Oh, and if you post anything about the freakin noise I will permaban you
Old 11th June 2013
  #2618
Lives for gear
 
remote337's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3Member ➑️
So here we go again with the same thing. Which people are you even referring to? Please provide direct quotes. As far as I can remember, the few people whom have popped up here actually owning the Mini have fallen into two camps:

1. They are happy with their Mini, realize that it does indeed have a noisy quality to it, but don't consider it a problem because so does the original.

2. They are unhappy with it, initially thinking their might be a problem with it, and have returned after realizing it doesn't suit them.

So far, I don't think anyone has made the claim saying that one Mini might be noisier than another other than the few people (non-owners) whom have flip flopped their criticisms after people have pointed out that it's just as noisy as the original. No offense, but you don't even own a Mini and have even stated that you have no intentions of buying one. You're practically beating a dead horse with an imaginary stick here.

So again, here are those links:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/5495904-post1.html
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/5496789-post7.html

Go buy yourself a Mini, listen to those first two sound clips and compare it. If you're not going to even buy the thing and try it yourself, there's really no validity in posting here anymore.
Talk about flogging a dead horse!

I have an original in fact I used to have two and an MS10.

Neither sound(ed) as noisy as the one in the video.

I didn't at anytime state there were differences in the mini I said 'perhaps' as several others have suggested.

The one I played at my mates was noisy but didn't sound as bad as the one in the video

Therefore my own experience is two mini's have different levels of noise and both are worse than an original mark 1. You seem determined not to believe this by repeatedly pointing to one thread in which one of the most experienced members on GS also states it needs recapping. Strange you tell me to buy a mini when I have played both and you don't have an original and haven't heard one in person.

Also strange that you have only ever posted on two threads. And both for new korg products................
Old 11th June 2013
  #2619
Gear Nut
 
coverup0204's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
So I checked with huggie and Don Solaris. I don't think huggie (the OP on the thread everyone is referring to) ever did get his MS-20 fixed, and he said "you learn to work around the noise".

Don said that he doesn't own an MK1 and is only familiar with the operation/characteristics of the MK2.
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2620
Gear Nut
 
coverup0204's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by seancostello ➑️
- The original VCA was a transistor. As in, ONE transistor. This is going to have noise. Most of the high quality early analogs used 4 matched transistors, and later VCA chips used all sorts of tricks to improve the noise floor.
Hi Sean! I am a huge fan of your plugins and use them on everything. Glad to see you're joining up here.
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2621
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by remote337 ➑️
Therefore my own experience is two mini's have different levels of noise and both are worse than an original mark 1.
..problem is, lot of people making comparisons on this thread haven't known whether they have a rev 2 or korg 35 revision of the ms20 to start with - so oftentimes people don't know which original they're talking about - plus the later revs are more common. To me this has shades of comparing a remake of a rev 1 / rev 2 prophet 5 to the rev 3s that are everywhere. Afaik part of the reason for the rev 3 prophet was that behaviour was more unpredictable between units in the first two revs - now everyone wants a rev 2..
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2622
Lives for gear
 
anigbrowl's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by remote337 ➑️
Neither sound(ed) as noisy as the one in the video.
The video author did mention that s/he had used the microphone on the camera rather than line in, and lots of cheap video cameras have automatic gain control on the microphones, ie a very crude limiter. Given that, the nonlinearities of the tiny transducers in non-pro cameras, and the rather ham-fisted approach to audio compression that YouTube takes, I don't think that video offers a good basis for comparison.

Mind, I'm not questioning that that unit is noisy - if the author says so, I'm happy to take that at face value. I'm only saying that the technical limitations make it difficult to speak objectively about how noisy it is in this case.
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2623
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R3Member's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by remote337 ➑️
Talk about flogging a dead horse!

I have an original in fact I used to have two and an MS10.

Neither sound(ed) as noisy as the one in the video.
And as someone already pointed out, it's likely you have one that has been modified in some way (maybe recapped), therefore it would be less noisy than an unmodified original. There's other people with MS-20's on this thread, so providing sound clips and pictures can prove if that's the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by remote337 ➑️
The one I played at my mates was noisy but didn't sound as bad as the one in the video
Yeah, and my friend's dog walks on his hind legs, wears a monocle and speaks fluent French. But since I won't provide pics or a sound clip, you'll just have to take my word for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by remote337 ➑️
Therefore my own experience is two mini's have different levels of noise and both are worse than an original mark 1. You seem determined not to believe this by repeatedly pointing to one thread in which one of the most experienced members on GS also states it needs recapping.
The reason I keep linking that thread is so that everyone can hear what an unmodified, original MS-20 sounds like. The guy even provided a picture, so anyone can follow that as an example and post sound clips and pics to make their comparisons. You do want to validate that somehow the Mini is worse than the original, no? Well, that's the perfect starting point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by remote337 ➑️
Strange you tell me to buy a mini when I have played both and you don't have an original and haven't heard one in person.
Malarkey. I have heard and played an original in person, in fact not too long at the very same shop I demo'ed the Mini at. The original was sold awhile back, but you are more than welcomed to email this shop and confirm that they did indeed have an original MS-20 on display for a couple of months: https://controlvoltage.net/

Quote:
Originally Posted by remote337 ➑️
Also strange that you have only ever posted on two threads. And both for new korg products................
Malarkey again. I've posted in several threads about other gear. I'm active on Korg Forums and often provide help with the R3, microSAMPLER and microSTATION, not to mention was an active poster on Harmony Central, Roland Clan and Vintage Synth. You can click on my profile and even scroll through my posts here. It just so happens that I've had the Mini pre-ordered since February and the Volca units as well, so yes, they are my primary source of interest right now.

NEXT.
Old 11th June 2013
  #2624
Lives for gear
 
remote337's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
So in your own words you don't own an original or a mini and yet such an authority.

What do you actually own kid a couple of cracked VSTs, come back in 20 years and then we may value your opinion.
Old 12th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2625
Lives for gear
 
R3Member's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by remote337 ➑️
So in your own words you don't own an original or a mini and yet such an authority.

What do you actually own kid a couple of cracked VSTs, come back in 20 years and then we may value your opinion.
Oh dearest remote337, I, a mere peasant whom has only had a Mini pre-ordered since February, kindly ask permission to both hear and see your glorious, possibly calibrated so it's non-as-noisy as a YouTube video, MS-20 so that I and others can make comparisons and see if our Mini's are worthy of your authority, oh sacred one.

Others speaketh of a false beast, an original MS-20 that prances throughout the night donning no such calibration, gathering Minis by the dozen and leading them to the path of noisy darkness, but such noise can't be true... please, unleash your mighty MS-20 with pics and sound clips to save us all.
Old 12th June 2013
  #2626
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
ok so mine arrived today and i just got it home, powered it up, and plugged the headphones in...

HUGE AMOUNT of noise. all you have to do is turn the oscillators all the way down and hit a key... and you can hear an extreme amount of beating and hissing. you can filter it, change the way it responds with the EG.

this is nuts. i was prepared for a little bit of noise, but this is out of hand. it had me searching all over the panel for a white noise generator knob, thinking i must have missed it in all the demos. the only way to purposely introduce noise is to patch it in, and let me tell you this needs no patching.

volume levels mean nothing.. yes, it reduces the noise along with the overall signal but if this was plugged into the mixer bringing up the volume would just increase the noise.

i'm really hoping i just missed something in my haste to get this thing going... but i see no way to introduce noise without patching it.

i'm telling you this thing is painfully noisy, like it was intentionally designed to kick out noise no matter what.

i've used an MS10 before and it did not exhibit this behavior.

i'm really hoping i just missed something rudimentary and will happily be an idiot if this is a needing a programming change on my part, but the only way to try and drown the noise out is to turn the osc all the way up.

no bueno.
Old 12th June 2013
  #2627
Lives for gear
 
R3Member's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Hi phreak260,

If you have a noisy Mini and plan on returning it, please do the following before doing so:

1. Click on this post and download the sound samples provided:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/5495904-post1.html

2. Click on this post and follow the same patch parameters:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/5496789-post7.html

3. Repost with both sound clips and pictures of your Mini showing matching parameters.

Doing so will help everyone here make some comparisons to an original, unmodified MS-20 and other people's Mini's. Thanks!
Old 12th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2628
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3Member ➑️
Hi phreak260,

If you have a noisy Mini and plan on returning it, please do the following before doing so:

1. Click on this post and download the sound samples provided:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/5495904-post1.html

2. Click on this post and follow the same patch parameters:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/5496789-post7.html

3. Repost with both sound clips and pictures of your Mini showing matching parameters.

Doing so will help everyone here make some comparisons to an original, unmodified MS-20 and other people's Mini's. Thanks!
sure. i'm just a little dejected right now so i really just want to put it back in the box and send it back. but, i'll help the cause.

****ing bummer!
Old 12th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2629
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I just got my MS-20 Mini. Yeah, it's noisy.

You can hear the sound (two pitches + noise) even with the lowpass filter cutoff all the way down. The filter changes the character of the noise, but doesn't cut it off. The VCA DOES gate the noise on and off. Changing the waveform selector of VCO2 definitely changes the character of the VCO sound of the "noise." Changing the waveform selector of VCO1 doesn't have a noticeable effect for me, but the VCO1 PW does change the character of the sound that is heard.

I'm trying to figure out why this is the case. It seems unlikely that the VCO level pots aren't working, as most pots do a pretty good job of going down to zero volume when asked to do so. I'm thinking that there might be some weird coupling between the VCO + noise generator and the power supply, and that this "ripple" is being heard downstream of the VCOs.

Don't get me wrong: I'm all for noise. However, the level difference between the VCO level when the LPF is open, and the noise level when the LPF filter is at minimum cutoff, is pretty minimal. You can't use the filter to make the sound "disappear."
Old 12th June 2013
  #2630
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
FWIW. I just received my Mini from Sweetwater today. Yay! Had to meet the fedex guy in some random neighborhood cause they screwed up on holding my package. Got it home, unboxed it and plugged it in. Very, very, very awesome! And yes, it is noisy. I've been following this thread since I pre-ordered after NAMM and got concerned over the past weeks as people complained about the noise problem. So I turned it up and thought oh crap there is the noise everyones talking about. I really wanted to love this synth. It's been a long time coming, so, I didn't want to send it back. Although, I happen to have some modular gear and I have the Manhattan Analog MA35. Which is a clone of the korg 35 filter and vca. I powered my modular up, ran a saw through the ma35, closed the filter and guess what? Noise, almost the same amount in the same style. I noticed it before but when you read the description of the ma35 circuit they say it's pretty noisy. I'm convinced that this is just the way this circuit is. It's a noisy beast that howls, screams and is very nasty but I love it. I know the ma35 is not an original ms20 but hopefully this helps someone like me who is questioning whether this is a defect or not. I think it's not (just my opinion). I'm going to keep this synth and play the hell out of it. Hope this helps someone. This thing really is awesome. Two minutes of playing with it and got some nice vocal growls, ring modded goodness. WOW!!!!!!!!
Old 12th June 2013
  #2631
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
MS 20 Patch: Harsh Ringmod - YouTube

harsh ringmod type patch - very fun
Old 12th June 2013
  #2632
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
MS 20 Patch: Harsh Ringmod - YouTube

harsh ringmod type patch - very fun
Old 12th June 2013
  #2633
Registered User
 
🎧 5 years
I'm sorry your synths all came with a VCA :(
Old 12th June 2013
  #2634
Gear Maniac
 
Paul Dither's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Okay, I've been reading this thread for quite a while now, and although it has gotten a bit ridiculous here and there, here are my 2 cents:

I received my MS-20 Mini last week from Sweetwater and yeah, it's noisy too. The noise resembles that of the samples R3Member posted. I would guess it's The VCA as the noise is present independently of the oscillators. A higher cutoff level in the LP filter only covers it. And as phreak260 pointed out, it can be shaped by EG2.

Last night, I did some of the patches from the "Setting Examples" book - just for fun. Well, the outcome was sort of disillusioning, which had nothing to do with the patches: Almost all of the settings for rather mellow sounds (esp. woodwind imitations that use triangle + low filter cutoff) are pretty unusable due to the high noise level, which btw is more extreme than the noise of the Monotron (constant noise output not triggered by the keyboard/ribbon control) and the Monotribe (slight noise triggered by the keyboard/ribbon control). The latter offers the perfect example of 'tolerable noise'. By that I mean that it would still make sense to add a nuance of white noise even to a gentle sound, which clearly doesn't work so well on the new MS-20 as too much noise is already leaking (although I'm careful with the word 'leaking' here because one usually refers to oscillators when using it).
After my excursion through the Setting Examples book, I checked Marc Doty's youtube review again, especially the two videos about the filter. Although he does not really create sounds throughout the clips that make the noise obvious, one can tell that it's there as well (esp. when listening via headphones). I'm referring to these clips:
The Korg MS-20 Mini- Filters Part One - YouTube
The Korg MS-20 Mini- Filters Part Two - YouTube

My assumption is that this noise issue is part of every MS-20 Mini that has been shipped so far - especially since more and more users are writing about it. So the remaining question is, if this noise is part of the spirit of the MS-20 rev 1.
Old 12th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2635
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skira's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbieG ➑️
I didn't want to send it back. Although, I happen to have some modular gear and I have the Manhattan Analog MA35. Which is a clone of the korg 35 filter and vca. I powered my modular up, ran a saw through the ma35, closed the filter and guess what? Noise, almost the same amount in the same style. I noticed it before but when you read the description of the ma35 circuit they say it's pretty noisy. I'm convinced that this is just the way this circuit is. It's a noisy beast that howls, screams and is very nasty but I love it. I know the ma35 is not an original ms20 but hopefully this helps someone like me who is questioning whether this is a defect or not. I think it's not (just my opinion). I'm going to keep this synth and play the hell out of it. Hope this helps someone. This thing really is awesome. Two minutes of playing with it and got some nice vocal growls, ring modded goodness. WOW!!!!!!!!
Very informative!
Old 12th June 2013
  #2636
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gruvsyco's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I'm happy to report that the MS20 in Diva has no noise whatsoever.
Old 12th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2637
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R3Member's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poptones ➑️
I received my MS-20 Mini last week from Sweetwater and yeah, it's noisy too. The noise resembles that of the samples R3Member posted... So the remaining question is, if this noise is part of the spirit of the MS-20 rev 1.
The sound samples I linked are from a thread that was made three years ago before the Mini, thus having no kind of biased opinions, so the answer is yes.

You could even read the whole thing here: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elect...ml#post5495904

It's very revealing in that a few people say that their MS-20 has various levels of noise bleed through as well. The user coverup0204 even went and asked the people involved in that thread some more questions and provided a follow up here earlier:

Quote:
Originally Posted by coverup0204 ➑️
So I checked with huggie and Don Solaris. I don't think huggie (the OP on the thread everyone is referring to) ever did get his MS-20 fixed, and he said "you learn to work around the noise".

Don said that he doesn't own an MK1 and is only familiar with the operation/characteristics of the MK2.
As for some Mini units possibly being noisier than others, those concerned could provide pictures and sound clips if need be so that when others pop in here, we all have a reference point for direct Mini/Mini comparisons.
Old 12th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2638
Gear Maniac
 
Paul Dither's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3Member ➑️
The sound samples I linked are from a thread that was made three years ago before the Mini, thus having no kind of biased opinions, so the answer is yes.

You could even read the whole thing here: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elect...ml#post5495904
I did read this thread and know that the samples came from an old MS-20. But as I never owned a MS-20 rev 1, I can't tell how representative these recordings are, that's all. So I didn't want to jump to conclusions immediately.
Old 12th June 2013
  #2639
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
worse than monotribe and monotron? wow. that's a little bit alarming
Old 12th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2640
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huggie's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I have the original 1979 vintage MS20 with the Korg35 filter.

I had a huge amount of noise on mine and sent it to my synth technician to check out. He was able to minimise it but not get rid of it completely.

My guess is that the noise from the MS20 is inherent in the circuit design. All these reports of the new Mini MS20 having the same issue kind of proves it...

I have learn't to work around the noise. The MS20 isn't the synth to use to make pure sub basses or sine style leads...


- Hugo
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