Quantcast
New Korg MS-20 Mini - Page 87 - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
New Korg MS-20 Mini
Old 11th June 2013
  #2581
Lives for gear
 
xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
fwiw, i've tried 3 units in person and they all displayed the same noise issue... i didn't do any scientific testing, just using my ears and dialing similar patches... if there is a variation it's rather infinite imo and i've yet to hear a quiet mini on affected patches... also it seems quite logical to me that if the original rev1 have this behavior, it is normal that the mini has it as well.. so really there would be no case/point in even doing the test...rather it zwould be interesting to find out what the solution to the problem is... again as coverup said the answers lie with original rev1 owners... and btw nms, instead of calling people lazy why don't you put your money where your mouth is and go out and buy a unit so you can test this theory of yours out yourself... you can always return it if it doesn't satisfy you..
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2582
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler477 ➑️
If you enjoy putting hiss through your FX boxes and compressors that's up to you, but for professional applications or multitracking the MS ( thus doubling or tripling the hiss ) then it's not up to snuff.
I disagree.
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2583
Lives for gear
 
riddimshakk's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nms ➑️
Http://www.zippyshare.com

It's cool if you're happy with yours but doesn't help answer some of the questions lingering. It takes a lot to make someone who was excited and happy to finally get theirs return it in disgust.
O.K hang in there. I'll prep it for upload.
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2584
Lives for gear
 
riddimshakk's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by riddimshakk ➑️
Right here's this...

Zippyshare.com - TheMS20-CUT.wav

Hope ya get that, i don't have an account with zippyshare.

Recorded directly as described in my previous post. A non professional recording , stereo, @48000hz, saved at 44.1.
A pretty crude set-up i have too. No further/after recording operations.
(Can't remember now if i added +1db to it or not but it won't matter, nothing taken away)

For the record, during recording, the only dial i touched was EG1/Ext & that was a short lived motion.
I just listened online to the file i uploaded. The mp3 they offer is very compressed & sounds like it is blanketed in noise (Oh the irony ! )
I HOPE that the download will give you the true & uncompressed wav file that i uploaded because on my computer it has NONE of that sound. NONE.

If anyone else wants to judge sound quality. Compressed files are a very bad thing to use....Especially when encoded like that. **** ! No wonder people get the wrong idea. It's worse than Itunes (& that's saying something)
Old 11th June 2013
  #2585
Lives for gear
 
xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nms ➑️

Were the units you tried as noisy as the ones that caused people to return them and say they're terrible? A bit difficult to answer that I imagine.
Impossible to answer, everyone has a different idea on what is acceptable or not to them, and you can't really base a theory on random online clips where the patches, sound levels & recording chain is all different... all I can tell you is all the units I tried in person displayed the same amount of noise dialing up the same patches using the same pro headphones. my assumption is all the minis from the current batch have the same issue.. again having proof now that original mk1 units have the same symptoms I have to question if this isn't inherent to the original design..
Old 11th June 2013
  #2586
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
This thread is hilarious. Lots of digital boyz moaning about analog noise and wanting their analog synth to sound exactly the same as everyone elses?!?! You should all take your MS20s back buy a new rompler (and go back to playing your presets), then you will get no unexpected noise and your synth will sound the same as everyone elses.
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2587
Lives for gear
 
remote337's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Ok I am an MS20 MK1 owner so I understand people will accuse me of bias etc.
I just spent about 2 hours playing my mates new mini and I have to say its a lot noisier than my original MK1. The sound is brighter but not in an unpleasant way, just different. The filter sounds very close but probably not as organic, slightly more of a nasal / tighter quality.

Its still a good synth though and unlike some of the above reports the build quality wasn't as bad as I expected it to be.

If I didnt have an original I would probably buy one at this price point.
Old 11th June 2013
  #2588
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
It's truly depressing to read everyone trying to be smarter than everyone else and making fun of people when you're just reading a thread about synthesizers, but I'm coming back to address a few things, only in direct regard to the MS-20 Mini I received and I am returning to Sweetwater:

- We talked extensively about using a noise gate for it earlier; again this will not work because the noise is only happening when you are playing, and noise gates work when your level goes below a certain threshold.

- Another person was like "just understand gain staging it will be fine, crank up the oscillators and turn down the overall volume". This does not work either, I have been working with oscillators at maximum the entire and low volume. Indeed, when you turn down the oscillators, the noise is worse, but it's also still there and prominent with the oscillators all the way up.

- It is a matter of opinion as to what noise you are comfortable with, but like I said before, I don't own any professional-level instrument that does this. I sat with it another couple hours trying to convince myself to keep it (and not to have to swallow the shipping fees), but seriously you can't go below 6 on the LP filter on mine without the noise being as prominent as the main sound, which for someone who isn't always using synths as brute force open-filter instruments, it makes for serious disappointment. Guess I "just don't get it", and to pre-empt any responses I'll add also "you don't understand the MS-20", "open your mind", "don't be so uptight about noise, it's no big deal", "that's just your opinion".
Old 11th June 2013
  #2589
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
wouldnt each ms20 mini user need to use the same audio interface? for the noise test i mean. also use the same brand of cables? and then use another copy of the same interface/cables to be sure the noise wasnt coming from those?
Old 11th June 2013
  #2590
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Noise is clearly not coming from cables.
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2591
Lives for gear
 
riddimshakk's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by remote337 ➑️
Ok I am an MS20 MK1 owner so I understand people will accuse me of bias etc.
I just spent about 2 hours playing my mates new mini and I have to say its a lot noisier than my original MK1. The sound is brighter but not in an unpleasant way, just different. The filter sounds very close but probably not as organic, slightly more of a nasal / tighter quality.

Its still a good synth though and unlike some of the above reports the build quality wasn't as bad as I expected it to be.

If I didnt have an original I would probably buy one at this price point.

It has been established that the new model is a bit brighter or tighter. The reason given to it is that it is new.
Or, the original of course is approx 35 years old & nicely bedded in (Put simply only)
Just for the sake of other readers who might want to know .
Respect.
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2592
Lives for gear
 
riddimshakk's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Sonic ➑️
This thread is hilarious. Lots of digital boyz moaning about analog noise and wanting their analog synth to sound exactly the same as everyone elses?!?! .
It's not everyone fella !...Just a few....Mostly two !
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2593
Lives for gear
 
duvalle's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by duvalle ➑️
MS-20 mini NOISE "problem" emphasized ...

Just got my mini today. I tried to capture the MS-20 NOISE in this clip.

I recorded straight into my cam, so there is lot of extra noise added!!

But to me the ms20mini still makes a lot of "noise" ... no??

so i decided to send mine back today.
not because it's not workable or i hate it, i just have so many other great
hardware synths to choose from. and tbh the "white noise" on every
sound started to bother me a little bit.

other than that the mini is a fun synth with trillions of great possibilities!
i spend hours patching and enjoying the crazy results!!
and the built quality is not bad at all - especially for studio use.

so:
Everything has been said, but not everyone has said it!
;-)
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2594
Lives for gear
 
xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
right it gets slightly more complicated to evaluate original MS-20s because of the different revisions (which btw aren't necessarily differentiable from the front panel screws) and of course the aging components.. for example in that original MS thread OP's sounds rather bright and clearly displays the hiss (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/5495904-post1.html) then a few posts down another user example sounds a lot muddier (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/5496926-post8.html) making the hiss much harder to identify... my gut feeling is that the original MS-20 is prone to the noise/hiss issue.. it was always in my mind a cheap dirty mono synth... i think many didn't like it much at the time it came out either (it became cult in lo-fi new-wave and then much later in dirty electro edm) basically what i'm saying is it isn't for everyone.. an acquired taste perhaps

Quote:
Originally Posted by smcumber ➑️
- It is a matter of opinion as to what noise you are comfortable with, but like I said before, I don't own any professional-level instrument that does this. I sat with it another couple hours trying to convince myself to keep it (and not to have to swallow the shipping fees), but seriously you can't go below 6 on the LP filter on mine without the noise being as prominent as the main sound, which for someone who isn't always using synths as brute force open-filter instruments, it makes for serious disappointment. Guess I "just don't get it", and to pre-empt any responses I'll add also "you don't understand the MS-20", "open your mind", "don't be so uptight about noise, it's no big deal", "that's just your opinion".
i wouldn't let anyone convince you if it's acceptable.. or not.. if you feel it's bothering you by all means you should return it and please mention why to your sales rep so hopefully korg get wind of the situation and perhaps address it in an official manner..
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2595
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by smcumber ➑️
Noise is clearly not coming from cables.
im not sure anyone would know, i mean if someone posted a sample of their ms20 mini or otherwise making noise how would you know where the noise is coming from. it might not be likely its coming from anything else but not impossible either. bleh.
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2596
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by myrealname ➑️
im not sure anyone would know, i mean if someone posted a sample of their ms20 mini or otherwise making noise how would you know where the noise is coming from. it might not be likely its coming from anything else but not impossible either. bleh.
Noise from cables would be constant, multiple people have posted clips with noise only when a key is pressed. I've used the MS-20 Mini on multiple stereos and amps, direct into the computer, headphone out and line out, etc. and all the same result. Definitely not from cables.
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2597
Lives for gear
 
remote337's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by duvalle ➑️
so i decided to send mine back today.
not because it's not workable or i hate it, i just have so many other great
hardware synths to choose from. and tbh the "white noise" on every
sound started to bother me a little bit.

other than that the mini is a fun synth with trillions of great possibilities!
i spend hours patching and enjoying the crazy results!!
and the built quality is not bad at all - especially for studio use.

so:
Everything has been said, but not everyone has said it!
;-)
Thats the first time I've seen that video.... wow thats really bad, no wonder you sent it back. An original is no where near that level of noise. I can only assume that they are not all that bad.
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2598
Lives for gear
 
R3Member's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by remote337 ➑️
An original is no where near that level of noise. I can only assume that they are not all that bad.
There's lots of original MS-20s sounding noisy on this thread:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elect...20-owners.html
Old 11th June 2013
  #2599
Lives for gear
 
plaid_emu's Avatar
I don't have any aspirations of buying an MS-20 Mini at this point even though I want one. Five years ago, definitely. The Volcas... I'm going to try and come up with the money for all three, eventually. I don't have any preorders placed. Not only because I don't have all the cash right now, but also because I believe it's typically beneficial to wait for the hardware/software bugs to be worked out. I've had previous experiences with "buying the first one off the boat". Not all of them positive.
Old 11th June 2013
  #2600
Lives for gear
 
gruvsyco's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I spent a few hours with mine last night and yes there is noise. If you really try, you can make that noise unbearable. Hell, you can even make a patch that is nothing but that noise. I started playing around to figure out where the noise is coming from and what not. It's definitely something between the oscillators and the VCA. The noise is able to be shaped by the VCA envelopes but, It seems if you turn the oscillators all the way down and try some filter FM out, there is no apparent noise... at least that I could tell through my system.

It was really starting to bother me quite a bit. I was finally able to focus again on why I bought that synth. If you crank the resonance and open the filter to get that wonderful MS20 growl, the noise is hardly noticeable. Since this is what I wanted the synth for, I have absolutely no issue at all. I also started working my way through some of the patches in the book and didn't notice the noise with those either. It's like I said before, if you go looking for fault, you're bound to find it.

Now, if this were my only synth, I would probably return it. With lower resonance patches and the filter closed up a bit, the noise can be quite bad. I have other synths that can do that sort of thing though. I know my SEM has noise in it too if you go looking for it.

Someone will eventually figure out a mod to "fix" this and, when that happens, I may or may not do the mod.

As a final note on this, I found the build quality to be perfectly acceptable.
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2601
Lives for gear
 
remote337's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3Member ➑️
There's lots of original MS-20s sounding noisy on this thread:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elect...20-owners.html
Yeah but thats not how they should be as outlined in the thread. The capacitors on the MS series weren't the best and once replaced thats all but eliminated.
Dont get me wrong there is noise on my MK1 if you pull both filters down but its hardly noticeable. The one in that thread and the mini video above is way more and is even audible in a patch.

As I said before it must be that some mini's are worse than others but the one in the vid is bad!
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2602
Lives for gear
 
R3Member's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by remote337 ➑️
As I said before it must be that some mini's are worse than others but the one in the vid is bad!
Well, if that is the claim you wish to make, buy a Mini and post sound clips and pics so others can compare. The noise in that video sounds roughly the same to my ears as those first two clips posted in that original MS-20 thread.
Old 11th June 2013
  #2603
Lives for gear
 
xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
yea that video doesn't prove jack.. we can't even see what the osc levels are.. what is for sure is there are some originals that are worse then others... and if the original capacitors are the root of the problem, well there is a strong chance that they might have been replaced at some point during any given unit's 35 year life, which may explain why some MS-20s are more quiet then others, might even explain why they made a rev2.. and if so we can't really blame korg for giving us an exact replica of what an original off the shelf mark1 unit might have sounded like...even if that means noise on closed filter.. not making any claims here btw, just an educated guess..
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2604
Lives for gear
 
remote337's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3Member ➑️
Well, if that is the claim you wish to make, buy a Mini and post sound clips and pictures so others can compare. The noise in that video sounds roughly the same to my ears as those sound first clips in that original MS-20 thread.
Eh? I'm not claiming anything?

The one in the video above is bad, anyone can hear that. All I have said is that if some people are saying theirs is ok then logic dicatates that some minis are worse than others?

Why would I need to buy a mini?
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2605
Lives for gear
 
R3Member's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by remote337 ➑️
Eh? I'm not claiming anything?
Quote:
Originally Posted by remote337 ➑️
As I said before it must be that some mini's are worse than others
Pretty simple really. Buy a Mini and prove this, otherwise it's just speculation.
Old 11th June 2013
  #2606
Lives for gear
 
xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
as i explained earlier to nms that's not a good method of making that judgment.. it's not because one person says "it's ok" and another "it's bad" that some units are better/worse then others.. it just means some people have a different tolerance on the issue.. and btw the noise in that video does sound worst then other videos but we don't know the levels of the osc, the gain of the recording not to mention the guy himself made a big warning that it was direct to cam sound so a lot of extra noise added.. i could probably do a recording with his mini in different conditions and you'd barely notice the hiss.. just saying..
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2607
Lives for gear
 
R3Member's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax ➑️
what is for sure is there are some originals that are worse then others... and if the original capacitors are the root of the problem, well there is a strong chance that they might have been replaced at some point during any given unit's 35 year life, which may explain why some MS-20s are more quiet then others, might even explain why they made a rev2.. and if so we can't really blame korg for giving us an exact replica of what an original off the shelf mark1 unit might have sounded like...even if that means noise on closed filter.. not making any claims here btw, just an educated guess..
Even though this is the most rational explanation anyone has said about the subject throughout this entire thread, let's get serious here, clearly Korg placed a Noise Voodoo spell on each unit. Send your Mini back now in a box filled with salt and garlic.
Old 11th June 2013
  #2608
Lives for gear
 
slujj vohaul's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Ugh. Maybe we could start a MS-20 NOISE INVESTIGATION thread and keep this one for user experiences, demos, fun things to try, cool patches, etc?
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2609
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years


R.I.P, Steven Jesse Bernstein.

My MS-20 Mini should arrive soon, so I will check it out and report back. I'm pretty good at troubleshooting where noise happens in a signal processing chain, even if I can't determine why the noise is being made. I'll be interested to hear if the noise is a problem when running external signals through the filter.

A few things to remember about the MS-20:

- The original VCA was a transistor. As in, ONE transistor. This is going to have noise. Most of the high quality early analogs used 4 matched transistors, and later VCA chips used all sorts of tricks to improve the noise floor.

- The rev 1 MS-20 filter used 5 transistors for its control voltage elements. This is going to have a lot of noise, as well as control voltage bleeding through. For me, this is part of the charm of the filter, at least as heard in my Monotrons and Monotribe.
Old 11th June 2013 | Show parent
  #2610
Lives for gear
 
remote337's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax ➑️
yea that video doesn't prove jack.. we can't even see what the osc levels are.. what is for sure is there are some originals that are worse then others... and if the original capacitors are the root of the problem, well there is a strong chance that they might have been replaced at some point during any given unit's 35 year life, which may explain why some MS-20s are more quiet then others, might even explain why they made a rev2.. and if so we can't really blame korg for giving us an exact replica of what an original off the shelf mark1 unit might have sounded like...even if that means noise on closed filter.. not making any claims here btw, just an educated guess..
You can see what the Osc levels are!

One is on full, 2 is at about 7 and it is very obvious that a key press triggers the noise??

I dont disagree that some originals are noisy too but as I said if these are recapped they are no where near this bad.

All I'm saying is that if some people say the noise level is low then perhaps some units are worse than others.

You seem to be saying no they are all the same and that the video is flawed in some way.
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 5073 views: 537852
Avatar for shortyedwards
shortyedwards 8th February 2021
replies: 76 views: 17930
Avatar for hcppp
hcppp 30th June 2020
replies: 813 views: 63381
Avatar for meh
meh 7 hours ago
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump