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New Korg MS-20 Mini
Old 20th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2161
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grasspike's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknobeam ➡️
Real nuts have to be machined, and also made out of stainless in order to prevent them from corroding and rusting early (much greater commodity costs). Plastic can be spit out of an inexpensive ABS mould for much less cost. I have an original Quadraverb from the 80's that has plastic nuts and they are 1/4". The mini's nuts would not be off the shelf parts so another reason to manufacture them in ABS.

Interesting about the noise floor. They should be able to correct that easily.
there is zero reason why Korg did not use better quality mini jacks with real metal nuts. These are very easily available with no need to custom manufacture anything, on a $600 synth to not spend maybe a penny or two more is pretty crazy. ABS is a great material but not in this application. It just makes zero sense

Why not build it with high quality pots and jacks and charge $650 instead of $600 or just eat the cost difference.

One thing is for sure however with build quality like this you will not see many of these around in 30-35 years like you do with the original, especially for people who love to turn knobs and patch things
Old 20th May 2013
  #2162
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike ➡️

One thing is for sure however with build quality like this you will not see many of these around in 30-35 years like you do with the original, especially for people who love to turn knobs and patch things
Isnt this the case for any mass produced synth these days?

And broken knobs and jacks can be replaced.
Old 20th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2163
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Teknobeam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike ➡️
there is zero reason why Korg did not use better quality mini jacks with real metal nuts. These are very easily available with no need to custom manufacture anything, on a $600 synth to not spend maybe a penny or two more is pretty crazy. ABS is a great material but not in this application. It just makes zero sense

Why not build it with high quality pots and jacks and charge $650 instead of $600 or just eat the cost difference.

One thing is for sure however with build quality like this you will not see many of these around in 30-35 years like you do with the original, especially for people who love to turn knobs and patch things
You are preaching to the choir here. They should have used metal. But as adhmzaiusz noticed, they aren't even threaded, they just snap together. THis definitely would save costs (not much, but evey fraction of a cent saved per unit is considered). Also, they are exactly like the software controller MS20i, and they probably didn't expect people to use the physical patch bay much since all of that was available in the HUI. That MS20i is not longer available, but they seem to have used it's physical shell including the jack field for the analog version. This also saves re design costs and the way it's assembled.
I actually don't understand why they would release something like that knowing that people are going to be unsatisfied when the jacks start to fail early on. But I have seen this before where in the interest of saving a fraction of cost, a compromise is made that comes back to haunt you later on.

Someone mentioned the "standard" of current synth manufacturing. This does play into it. Everyone looks at everyone and says hey...they are doing it too why not us? I started noticing bad build quality with Roland MC stuff. A far cry from the JX days which was really kind of the end of great build quality even though there was a lot of plastic etc. Those things stood the test of time. Not all synth manufacturers are making light duty cycle stuff. Moog, ACCESS, a few others, but you also pay for that extra quality.
Old 20th May 2013
  #2164
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
The funny thing is that probably if they would go for the 900-1000 dollar full size nicer knobs etcetera version they would get even more flak for all the little differences there are because then the expectation is even higher and it's not so far off the price point of a vintage one.
Old 20th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2165
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Teknobeam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TransistorRhythm ➡️
The funny thing is that probably if they would go for the 900-1000 dollar full size nicer knobs etcetera version they would get even more flak for all the little differences there are because then the expectation is even higher and it's not so far off the price point of a vintage one.
I think people would be all over a full size replica with the better components. But I think this was an afterthought synth. Someone probably came up with the idea of putting an analog synth inside the existing MS20i box and they went ahead with it. "Economy of scale" Quite a brilliant move in many ways. They keboard is also a problem. It's very small keys are not designed for long term use. Again, back to the standards for electronic instruments. I have two Arturia controller keyboards that i purchased used, both have two or three keys that don't work. I tried to fix them but nothing that I tried worked for very long. Yet I have a DW8000 that has zero issues with it's keys. Same with my JX, my JD, and My Polaris's, and DX9. THese things are decades old.

Maybe they should start putting an expiry date on these newer synths "best before __ __ __"
Old 20th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2166
2Cv
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by adhmzaiusz ➡️
FYI take a closer look

Ever hear of chrome or metallic paint?
Edit: ok they are plastic. I just pulled one off :-O
Old 21st May 2013 | Show parent
  #2167
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknobeam ➡️
I think people would be all over a full size replica with the better components. But I think this was an afterthought synth. Someone probably came up with the idea of putting an analog synth inside the existing MS20i box and they went ahead with it. "Economy of scale" Quite a brilliant move in many ways.
I can imagine you don't want to read all that stuff again but the MS-20 mini does not use the same case. Don't know about the knobs either as it doesn't need digital encoders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknobeam ➡️
They keboard is also a problem. It's very small keys are not designed for long term use. Again, back to the standards for electronic instruments. I have two Arturia controller keyboards that i purchased used, both have two or three keys that don't work. I tried to fix them but nothing that I tried worked for very long. Yet I have a DW8000 that has zero issues with it's keys. Same with my JX, my JD, and My Polaris's, and DX9. THese things are decades old.

Maybe they should start putting an expiry date on these newer synths "best before __ __ __"
This is ridiculous the keys are smaller but have a lot better feel than the original. Nobody complained about the quality, only the size
Old 21st May 2013 | Show parent
  #2168
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adhmzaiusz's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknobeam ➡️
Someone probably came up with the idea of putting an analog synth inside the existing MS20i box and they went ahead with it.
FTR the MS20i is smaller than the MS20M. The first thing i did was put them side by side to compare

But still, most likely the exact same internal pots and jacks etc
Old 21st May 2013 | Show parent
  #2169
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Teknobeam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by adhmzaiusz ➡️
FTR the MS20i is smaller than the MS20M. The first thing i did was put them side by side to compare

But still, most likely the exact same internal pots and jacks etc
Ah..that is very interesting. I just assumed that they were the same. It would be interesting to see what the insides look like. I'm actually really considering picking one up after the flood slows a bit.
Old 21st May 2013
  #2170
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xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
^ 2cv did a teardown...

Old 21st May 2013 | Show parent
  #2171
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volumetrik's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknobeam ➡️
I actually don't understand why they would release something like that knowing that people are going to be unsatisfied when the jacks start to fail early on. But I have seen this before where in the interest of saving a fraction of cost, a compromise is made that comes back to haunt you later on.
While I am very thankful they put this thing out and I can't wait to get mine, I am guessing they did not look at it as a pro grade instrument, durability etc, like it was made for gigging. Because they didn't expect this to take off and did not treat it too seriously, but then again I am hearing that KingKORG build quality is not so good also. I just checked their worldwide distributors site they are in like 93 countries.

Everyone is going nuts over the MS-20 mini even the Korg Mexico/Brazil have MS-20s on the front page. Some people are buying multiple units.

I am guessing there is more people in the world than ever that would buy musical products, and it's tough for a big company, so quality and quality control has to go down a bit in order to ship units quickly.
Old 21st May 2013 | Show parent
  #2172
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
According to Kakaku's synth/keyboard "Popular Best Sales" ranking, MS-20 mini is the most popular top item in the last week.

#1 Korg MS-20 mini
#2 Casio CTK-2200
#3 Casio SA-46
#4 Casio CTK-4200
#5 Casio LK-215
#6 Casio LK-115
#7 Yamaha PSR-E333
#8 Casio SA-76
#9 Yamaha EZ-J220
#10 Korg Krome
Old 21st May 2013 | Show parent
  #2173
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🎧 10 years
That is a very sobering list. (other than the Mini)
Old 21st May 2013
  #2174
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Optical Lens's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Music shop sent mine today in my grubby hands in 2 days probably!
Old 21st May 2013 | Show parent
  #2175
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riddimshakk's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Optical Lens ➡️
Music shop sent mine today in my grubby hands in 2 days probably!
Nice one. Damn, i keep seeing these limited models arriving here & there. Wish they'd send mine !
Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ? Where is it ?
Old 21st May 2013
  #2176
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Optical Lens's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
All I can say is that I am kinda surprised and shocked since I live in the obscure country called Norway.
Old 21st May 2013
  #2177
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Optical Lens ➡️
Music shop sent mine today in my grubby hands in 2 days probably!
Congratulations. It is going to be awesome.
Old 21st May 2013 | Show parent
  #2178
Here for the gear
 
pinky_blue's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Vosene ➡️
MS 20 mini is hitting UK dealers today...

https://mobile.twitter.com/KorgUK/st...866755/photo/1
This is good news, although Korg told me the first shipment had arrived last Monday! I think I believe it this time, can't be long now....
Old 21st May 2013 | Show parent
  #2179
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Starspawn's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Optical Lens ➡️
All I can say is that I am kinda surprised and shocked since I live in the obscure country called Norway.
I think preorders in Norway was very low because we have a general markup and no shops undercutting others on such items.
I noticed 4Sound and others started a couple hundred higher, then lowered the price after a while, but probably to late to catch all those that compared prices for their preorders.
Now the price is up again :D
The attitude seems to be not to try and take each others customers with good prices, but more like "if theyre taking that price Im not going to make anything less on mine!"
Old 21st May 2013 | Show parent
  #2180
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riddimshakk's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Vosene ➡️
MS 20 mini is hitting UK dealers today...

https://mobile.twitter.com/KorgUK/st...866755/photo/1
Where does this info come from then ? Who says so ?...
...The official 'Check what items arrive in Britain' website ?
Old 21st May 2013 | Show parent
  #2181
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by riddimshakk ➡️
Where does this info come from then ? Who says so ?...
...The official 'Check what items arrive in Britain' website ?


Old 21st May 2013 | Show parent
  #2182
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riddimshakk's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TransistorRhythm ➡️


Just had an email from GuitarGuitar uk.....SHIPPING !!! WaaaaHHoooooo !!!
Get it tomorrow !

Happeeeeeee.

Also ,Juno records have 'em in stock if yer looking for one. BONG!
Old 21st May 2013 | Show parent
  #2183
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grasspike's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy123 ➡️
Isnt this the case for any mass produced synth these days?

And broken knobs and jacks can be replaced.

true they can, however when you hear people talk about the Mini MS20 they will talk about having knobs and jacks and how interacting with them is so much better than using say a VST or a rompler.

Yet Korg is actually saying by their build standards that the jacks and knobs are not very important at all.

Looking at the tear down pics here
Din Sync: A close up look at the new Korg MS-20 Mini

it appears that the jacks and pots are soldered directly to the circuit board. If that is the case replacing them will be quite difficult compared to if there were just two leads going to them that you could clip and re-solder very easily. In order to replace you would need to remove the entire board assembly.

I understand why they would build it this way, since you can have a robotic line surface mount everything and then simply mount the board flush to the holes on the case, but that makes repairs and modifications much trickier than it would have other wise.

It certainly looks like Korg designed this to be throw away disposable electronics rather than an instrument that will last a long time especially if you use the patchbay and knobs quite a bit. Every time you plug something into and out of the patchbay you will cause stress to the solder points, this will lead to metal fatigue and eventual failure

The real shame is they could have very easily designed it so that the front panel had real metal jacks and pots with real metal nuts holding them in place, then they could have mounted the circuit board to the back of the case and simply run leads to the front panel jacks and pots. That would have made replacing them quite simple and quite cheap, it would also have been a benders wetdream. Favorite patches from the bay could have been hard wired to toggle switches you could mount to the top of the case, ahhh what could have been
Old 21st May 2013 | Show parent
  #2184
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R3Member's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by riddimshakk ➡️
Just had an email from GuitarGuitar uk.....SHIPPING !!! WaaaaHHoooooo !!!
Get it tomorrow !

Happeeeeeee.

Also ,Juno records have 'em in stock if yer looking for one. BONG!
Blargh! I pre-ordered with Guitar Center US. You better bet I'll be checking my email inbox every hour now.
Old 21st May 2013
  #2185
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike ➡️
true they can, however when you hear people talk about the Mini MS20 they will talk about having knobs and jacks and how interacting with them is so much better than using say a VST or a rompler.

Yet Korg is actually saying by their build standards that the jacks and knobs are not very important at all.

Looking at the tear down pics here
Din Sync: A close up look at the new Korg MS-20 Mini

it appears that the jacks and pots are soldered directly to the circuit board. If that is the case replacing them will be quite difficult compared to if there were just two leads going to them that you could clip and re-solder very easily. In order to replace you would need to remove the entire board assembly.

I understand why they would build it this way, since you can have a robotic line surface mount everything and then simply mount the board flush to the holes on the case, but that makes repairs and modifications much trickier than it would have other wise.

It certainly looks like Korg designed this to be throw away disposable electronics rather than an instrument that will last a long time especially if you use the patchbay and knobs quite a bit. Every time you plug something into and out of the patchbay you will cause stress to the solder points, this will lead to metal fatigue and eventual failure

The real shame is they could have very easily designed it so that the front panel had real metal jacks and pots with real metal nuts holding them in place, then they could have mounted the circuit board to the back of the case and simply run leads to the front panel jacks and pots. That would have made replacing them quite simple and quite cheap, it would also have been a benders wetdream. Favorite patches from the bay could have been hard wired to toggle switches you could mount to the top of the case, ahhh what could have been
This is how all Korg stuff is made. I don't know if I'd call it a shame. It's just the industry standard for mass produced music stuff. Metal jacks and knobs would have made this a lot more expensive IMO.
Old 21st May 2013
  #2186
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adhmzaiusz's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I don't find the build quality to be a problem really, the patch cables go in very easy with almost no strain on the jack. The pots are alright enough, I won't complain about anything physical.

I do find this noise in the VCA to be very questionable though and I do hope someone will be able to devise a fix for it. Most likely it is an smt op amp or something that doesn't perform like the original dip version. I think i'm going to open mine up when I get a chance and take a look at the pcb
Old 21st May 2013
  #2187
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Bobby Vosene's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TransistorRhythm ➡️


Hehe...
Old 21st May 2013
  #2188
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adhmzaiusz's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I don't find the build quality to be a problem really, the patch cables go in very easy with almost no strain on the jack. The pots are alright enough, I won't complain about anything physical.

I do find this noise in the VCA to be very questionable though and I do hope someone will be able to devise a fix for it. Most likely it is an smt op amp or something that doesn't perform like the original dip version. I think i'm going to open mine up when I get a chance and take a look at the pcb
Old 22nd May 2013 | Show parent
  #2189
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pinky_blue's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
No word on my preorder, so I cancelled after finding one from a smaller dealer in the UK. Its being delivered on Friday as I'm not around to take delivery tomorrow.

The wait is almost over!

Old 22nd May 2013 | Show parent
  #2190
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riddimshakk's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
O.K, i've received my unit & have been tinkering for an hour. It's only fair to say something on here for anyone still waiting since i've been hanging out here for ages waiting for it !
I think the most important views have already been shared on here & the most relevant ones too so i'll just give a kind of 'first impression as an end user' view.

First off i think that just to look at it, it takes the prize for being the cutest synthesizer i've seen. I'm gonna have no problem fitting it in somewhere because it's dinky ! (Would make a great ornament )
I have it plugged into a high end hi-fi speaker (From master out) I know that speaker & so a good way for me to judge it.
Sounds completely wicked.
The first thing i didn't do was listen for unwanted noise. There's something there but i really don't give a damn for it because everything else puts it in the shade.
Funny thing with the keyboard...While holding down a key, when you press another one HIGHER UP you hear that tone take priority (Like you might expect) but if you press a key LOWER DOWN it does not sound until you release the other key first.
I imagine that it is an ms 20 trait & totally normal.Not a worry or a bother but i have just never known it in other synths. (Could be other synths like it)
Other than that, the keyboard is very responsive & has a quiet action. Cool.

The pot wobble !!!....Not too bad at all. Honestly. You do however need a finger & thumb to turn them. (Nick Batt of Sonicstste pointed out that if ,like him you want to rest a hand on the units top & turn a pot with your thumb, "That's just not gonna happen") Agreed, you can't really, the pot just wedges itself against its outer sleeve...Oh well,back to the work around attitude then.

Patch jack sockets. They seem ok to me. Looks like if you treat them with care they should be fine. I guess it depends on the individual & how you treat your gear in general. I'm more inclined to look after my kit. Time will tell though & i'm not going gloss over stuff just because my money's spent...They are light !

It's too soon to say too much but when i look at it & make noise with it i feel happy about getting my moneys worth. What else is this good for this money ? (£499)

Midi in is all good , worked well with a yamaha qy10 & a Korg Monotribe (For testing purposes). Nice hands free twiddling.

USB...Who cares ? .....(Alright, some people do, i know)

The little mod' wheel it sweet. Patch it up to a filter or whatever & it does exactly what it should.There's a centre indentation for reference. (Got no further than that yet on the patch panel)

I dunno ! It's a crackin' little unit & about how i expected so no disappointments here, just expansion of the mother ship ! Whoop

It's not a high end or lavish synthesizer but was never designed to be.
It IS a mean sounding & genuine analogue synthesizer with tons of character & i can see it staying with me & being useful in many areas.

I wrote this too thinking how it will read in 12 months...I'm accountable for my posts !
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