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New Korg MS-20 Mini
Old 12th May 2013
  #2011
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R3Member's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Well, as it now stands, I no longer view the noise as an issue, I view it as a characteristic. Someone with a Mini provided their own sound file with the noise in action, then someone with an original MS-20 did the same. Both sound roughly the same by matching the exact parameters. Regardless of Korg's claims that it's supposed to less noisy than the original, we can conclude here that it actually sounds closer to the original. To me, that's a good thing.

If we still want to be objective about this and consider it an issue, anyone else with an original MS-20 can provide both a sound file and pictures with matching parameters proving the original is somehow drastically less noisy. Going by some random videos on YouTube is not going to win me over when two people whom actually own the things have already taken their time to help show everyone that this shouldn't be something to panic about.
Old 12th May 2013
  #2012
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🎧 5 years
..i'm afraid there is sadly a classic fanboy syndrome in this thread where any kind of valid concern or criticism put forward over this synth will get you negged and discredited as a "hater" ... other perhaps insecure pre-order owners seem eager to say "it's normal behavior" without seriously analyzing the evidence. as someone who's actually played a mini i can only say this is imo an unacceptable issue.. again noise isn't my enemy, i actually value noise as a source & modulation.. i also often raise the noise generator on my voyager and SH-101, noise can be very useful to create percussion sounds, artificial reverb or simply add dirt, however that is on the condition that the noise can be put through the filter & envelope so you can have control over it.. on the mini, the noise just sits there..it's like it's bleeding through.. i can only see this as a fault, and it doesn't matter if you find an original MS with the same issue.. it remains an issue.. that doesn't make me anti-MS.. i love everything about it despite this and to me the fact that Korg themselves have aimed to make the VCA less noisy proves they also judge it as the only real flaw of it's design... it's just kind of disappointing they haven't held their word, but hopefully the next batch will have it fixed.. i'm crossing fingers..
Old 12th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2013
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narcoman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
somebody say "irregardless"... pleeeeeeease!! I'll settle for a "pacifically".....
Old 12th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2014
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax ➑️
..i'm afraid there is sadly a classic fanboy syndrome in this thread where any kind of valid concern or criticism put forward over this synth will get you negged and discredited as a "hater" ...
Agree.
Old 12th May 2013
  #2015
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years


but no-one's established whether they're noisier than the original version the mini' s based on. If people can check what vintage model theirs is before comparing , then we might start to get somewhere.
Old 12th May 2013
  #2016
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🎧 5 years
^ but does it really matter?? the fact is the mini has this issue, wether it's a rev 1 flaw or not... it's a flaw.. korg themselves seem to acknowledged it since they claim the new VCA is less noisy.. now is it going to be something you can tolerate? that is subjective but shouldn't take away the reality of the issue..
Old 12th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2017
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grasspike's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben F ➑️
I serviced a Korg MS-20 once and there is bugger all trimming involved. VCO pitch, keyboard CV and filter frequency...that's it. I don't think you can bring up a quote from the Mini Brute and compare it to the MS-20, they are obviously very different circuits.
just wondering if you have serviced an new Mini MS20 opened it up and have seen first hand the difference between the 1978 MS20 and the 2013 Mini Ms20

If so please tell us what parts are part of the the new design and what was substituted, relative to the old 1978 design?

If you have not done the above then your observations on a product from 1978 are not really relevant to manufacturing in 2013 are they?

You have experience in servicing analog synths, does the 3rd world worker, working at some factory in China have that same experience? You could take your time, can the assembly line worker do the same when more units are moving down the line and your boss is yelling at you to hurry up?

The only reason I brought up the quote about the arturia minibrute was the point was made by someone else that the only reason they has delays was the fact that they had high demand. That was simply incorrect. Unless you think that the correct way to deal with high demand is to not ship any synths at all.

BOB: "gee it looks like lot's of people want to order our product Jim"
JIM: "well Jim if that's the case lets not ship any orders out for six months"
BOB: "Ok that sounds great, the best way to handle customers who want to pay us money for our products is to not ship our products and make them wait"
Old 12th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2018
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riddimshakk's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax ➑️
..i'm afraid there is sadly a classic fanboy syndrome in this thread where any kind of valid concern or criticism put forward over this synth will get you negged and discredited as a "hater" ... other perhaps insecure pre-order owners seem eager to say "it's normal behavior" without seriously analyzing the evidence. as someone who's actually played a mini i can only say this is imo an unacceptable issue.. again noise isn't my enemy, i actually value noise as a source & modulation.. i also often raise the noise generator on my voyager and SH-101, noise can be very useful to create percussion sounds, artificial reverb or simply add dirt, however that is on the condition that the noise can be put through the filter & envelope so you can have control over it.. on the mini, the noise just sits there..it's like it's bleeding through.. i can only see this as a fault, and it doesn't matter if you find an original MS with the same issue.. it remains an issue.. that doesn't make me anti-MS.. i love everything about it despite this and to me the fact that Korg themselves have aimed to make the VCA less noisy proves they also judge it as the only real flaw of it's design... it's just kind of disappointing they haven't held their word, but hopefully the next batch will have it fixed.. i'm crossing fingers..
Maybe it's time to define the term "Fanboy"...
Here's my approximate interpretation of it in this particular thread :-

-: A person who desires this synthesizer, see's it as a great new machine & looks at it through rose tinted glasses. Has their own ideal mental image of it & can't bear the idea that anything could be wrong with it. If anyone declares an issue or problem with it then that's a real problem for them !
They might react to that.

Does that then, extend to those of of us who see no issue & just want to get a unit & use it or is it just confined to those who have taken a hissing sound & continue to analyze it, question it & throw it around in circles even in the face of recorded evidence & are indeed seemingly concerned about it ?
The same people who call the manufacturer liars or who suggest we cancel our pre-orders. Can THEY stand it that this unit might just be less than perfect ?

Who are the accused "Fanboys" ?
Old 12th May 2013
  #2019
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grasspike's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Of course at the end of the day it does not matter if the noise was on the old 1978 version or not, what matters is sales for the new one in 2013/2014.

According to some people this was going to herald in the new age of analog synths, where people who had worked ITB would buy analog hardware synths. Roland and Yamaha would see the error of their ways and come out with Analog synths of their own, and the MS20 reissue would be quickly followed up with an Analog Poly Synth.

However if the noise issue is real and people consider it a deal breaker and those people cancel pre-orders or return units back to retailers all of which have very liberal return policies that will create problems for the retailers, and Korg with having lots of overstock and open box inventory to deal with.

At the very least it will impact sales, and if Korg just sells a few thousand units to die hard synth fans it certainly will not cause other manufacturers or Korg themselves to rush to market with more analog synths
Old 12th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2020
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riddimshakk's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike ➑️

However if the noise issue is real and people consider it a deal breaker and those people cancel pre-orders or return units back to retailers all of which have very liberal return policies that will create problems for the retailers, and Korg with having lots of overstock and open box inventory to deal with.
That's almost what i was saying a couple of pages back. It's no big deal. Buy the unit & try it. If there really is a problem it will show itself in returned orders.
There's always a few other different synths out there to satisfy ones appetite !
Old 12th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2021
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sensorfold's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Ordered one in early February. When it arrives I hope it doesn't make me throw a HISSy fit!heh
Old 12th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2022
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xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by riddimshakk ➑️
Maybe it's time to define the term "Fanboy"...
Here's my approximate interpretation of it in this particular thread :-

-: A person who desires this synthesizer, see's it as a great new machine & looks at it through rose tinted glasses. Has their own ideal mental image of it & can't bear the idea that anything could be wrong with it. If anyone declares an issue or problem with it then that's a real problem for them !
They might react to that.

Does that then, extend to those of of us who see no issue & just want to get a unit & use it or is it just confined to those who have taken a hissing sound & continue to analyze it, question it & throw it around in circles even in the face of recorded evidence & are indeed seemingly concerned about it ?
The same people who call the manufacturer liars or who suggest we cancel our pre-orders. Can THEY stand it that this unit might just be less than perfect ?

Who are the accused "Fanboys" ?
listen... i am merely pointing out there is a potential issue.. don't shoot the messenger.. i never told anyone to cancel their pre-order.. some dude who actually owns the unit was raising concern over the issue, i told him if i were him i'd return it.. i'm also not calling korg liars, however it seems crystal clear to me they've failed on the claim of a less noisy VCA and it is my belief that by voicing concern korg might actually take action..
Old 12th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2023
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax ➑️
listen... i am merely pointing out there is a potential issue.. don't shoot the messenger.. i never told anyone to cancel their pre-order.. some dude who actually owns the unit was raising concern over the issue, i told him if i were him i'd return it.. i'm also not calling korg liars, however it seems crystal clear to me they've failed on the claim of a less noisy VCA and it is my belief that by voicing concern korg might actually take action..
Odds are that most units are already made now.
There's no way that the first shipment is likely to be any different from the units we have already seen unless there was an earlier batch to sell prior to them realizing there was a problem with the circuit......Sounds unlikely.

I real smart cookie who was worried about the first shipment being faulty & thought that the following shipments would be perfect would wait until next year or beyond ,thus letting all of the other guinea pigs take the rubbish....A cunning plan, nobody would suspect a thing YES !
I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT ANYONE SHOULD DO THAT OF COURSE BECAUSE IT'S UP TO INDIVIDUALS !
Old 12th May 2013
  #2024
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
thing is, doesn't seem crystal clear at all though ... afaik they claimed they reduced the noise not eliminated it. If it's uieter than the original rev 1 but still noisier than some of the rev 2s, that would make sense. This could run and run for years, or at least until people know what model of synth they actually have
Old 12th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2025
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volumetrik's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike ➑️
The only reason I brought up the quote about the arturia minibrute was the point was made by someone else that the only reason they has delays was the fact that they had high demand. That was simply incorrect. Unless you think that the correct way to deal with high demand is to not ship any synths at all.

BOB: "gee it looks like lot's of people want to order our product Jim"
JIM: "well Jim if that's the case lets not ship any orders out for six months"
BOB: "Ok that sounds great, the best way to handle customers who want to pay us money for our products is to not ship our products and make them wait"
Are you aware of the fact that production has stopped completely while they moved to a new place and train more people? You know why they had to get a new place? Because of high demand.

Yes analog synths are more time consuming to make than digital, but actually easier in 2013 and no way harder than in the old days.

Hopefully this gets through to you once and for all.
Old 12th May 2013
  #2026
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xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
whatever i've voiced my opinion i don't plan on argumentum ad nauseam ...
Old 13th May 2013
  #2027
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sovietpop's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Here is me messing with the Mini ms20 just for fun.
Did this very quickly so its kinda crapy but anyway you can hear the mini MS20 in the context of a song.

Its all MS20 with little reverb from Logic.

Old 13th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2028
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Ben F's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike ➑️
just wondering if you have serviced an new Mini MS20 opened it up and have seen first hand the difference between the 1978 MS20 and the 2013 Mini Ms20

If so please tell us what parts are part of the the new design and what was substituted, relative to the old 1978 design?

If you have not done the above then your observations on a product from 1978 are not really relevant to manufacturing in 2013 are they?

You have experience in servicing analog synths, does the 3rd world worker, working at some factory in China have that same experience? You could take your time, can the assembly line worker do the same when more units are moving down the line and your boss is yelling at you to hurry up?
Well, just a stab in the dark, but the old through the hole components have been replaced by SMT RoHS components where applicable and they are probably using double sided PCBs as they are a more efficient use of space. The rest of the circuit would have to remain very similar in order to sound the same, as Korg have said so themselves. It's the same synth so how can they not be relevant? You design a different circuit then it's a different synth. I look at new and old audio equipment all of the time the basics haven't changed that much, just the manufacturing has improved and cost reduced by outsourcing. BTW you don't need humans to calibrate a circuit.

Anyway, just thought I'd chime in with some real world experience, but I'll leave it to the technical experts such as yourself.
Old 13th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2029
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
MS20 mini release date in the US

I'm just checking in to see if anybody has an idea on release dates for the United States? I'm supposed to be in the first shipment from Nova(now Kraft Music) and my "Rep" doesn't seem to give a **** from his tone of voice.
Old 13th May 2013
  #2030
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by slujj vohaul ➑️
What I don't get is let's say Korg have 1000 of these built. Why don't they just divvy those up to their biggest customers (retailer wise) and get them out now? Why would a company continue to push back their first batch just because the other batches are behind? Why would higher volume of demand necessitate that all units be withheld to a later date?

Am I missing some core function of supply and demand economics or something? I'll rule out them BSing on the launch date from the get-go as it seems unrealistic - it'd just piss off their core demographic.

Even if they thought that there would be very low demand (they didn't), you would think that they'd build at least ~500 for launch.

AMIRIGHT OR WHAT?

WHAT'S THE DEAL KORG BROZ?

/endrant
It's cheaper to ship in bulk mate. Than send off small consignments.
Old 13th May 2013
  #2031
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🎧 10 years
Anyone know how many units Awave is getting and when?

Also have any aussie shops receive any so far?
Old 13th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2032
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riddimshakk's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akousmata ➑️
I'm just checking in to see if anybody has an idea on release dates for the United States? I'm supposed to be in the first shipment from Nova(now Kraft Music) and my "Rep" doesn't seem to give a **** from his tone of voice.
When ! Oh when ,oh when !!!!...The question on all of our lips !
...Today would be nice
Old 13th May 2013
  #2033
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4 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
I just bought a prepaid Visa with the $600 on it, that way my PayPal is clear for me to buy and sell stuff without me having to keep track of that "spoken for" money at all times... Pretty much, I've written off getting the MS-20 mini, and have started working on music in a bit of a new paradigm for me.... bought an old MPC 2000xl, loaded it up with max RAM, SMPTE, and 8 outs, and hooked it via SPDIF into my system(wasn't using those anyway!).... Now I have this system where I can pass clocking signals to my Monotribe(via sync pulse) and arp triggers to my Polysix in nice rhythmic patterns, and pass samples back and forth from the Maschine and computer.... Or turn the damn computer OFF and sequence my analogs from the MPC. This is a dramatic shift for me, as I started into electronic music with Cubase VST, and Reason 1 shortly thereafter... I started adding hardware to supplement the computer, but now I am in a position where I can turn it all off and just enjoy my hardware.

Pretty much, I've found something new and fun to replace the constant wondering "when's my synth gonna get here"...

When I wrote something I really want to mix properly, I stripe SMPTE to Nuendo, and track my parts in 1-by-1. Added bonus....I concentrate on writing this way, as I never get stuck playing with delays or reverbs or stutter-edits when writing in hardware...I actually am excited to manually control my ms20's pulse width as I track it in!

(On a side note). I can't wait to try tracking a song in Maschine standalone, and sending the MIDI 16 channels at a time to the MPC to see if that works out like I'm thinking it will... Anyone tried this? The minis MIDI port is really a huge boon for this new way of working, as I can play out with the MPC as my hub, and just tweak the synths while playing a few parts on my keys, or maybe just the drums live.

Sorry for the OT novel... Just sharing what I did to ease my worries about what date my synth will show up!

Last edited by jimmyklane; 13th May 2013 at 09:09 PM.. Reason: finished the post from my phone...
Old 13th May 2013
  #2034
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
MS-20 + Volga = poor man's glory
Old 13th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2035
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Shipping update

This is my first post, so please excuse me if I screw something up.

My Sweetwater rep just called and said:
They had about 1000 pre-orders (back-orders to him).
He said they were expecting shipments from Korg in June (hopefully).
He said my unit would probably go out in/from the second shipment (I pre-ordered 22 Feb.) and would likely ship 24 June.

If all goes well.

And here I finally got used to the idea of receiving it for xmas.
Old 13th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2036
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slujj vohaul's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batiatus ➑️
MS-20 + Volga = poor man's glory
Haha. I'm totally okay with that. Glorious it will be.
Old 13th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2037
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R3Member's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
1,000 pre-orders from just one retailer is pretty intense, haha. I pre-ordered mine on the first of February, so who knows what my place in line is. But still, I can't get over that; 1,000 pre-orders from just Sweet Water alone. The amount of pre-orders is probably quadrupled when you factor in Guitar Center, Musician's Friend, Sam Ash, etc. No wonder it is taking this long, Korg's little elves are working overtime trying to crank them out. When you think about it, the majority of the people whom are placing these pre-orders are the ones whom keep up to date on synth gear through online news. There's still thousands of musicians out there who don't even know this thing is coming out. I really wonder how well this will sell compared to the microKORG's initial release.
Old 14th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2038
Gear Maniac
 
dexfx69's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChancexlanD ➑️
i ordered mine feb 26, in vancouver canada....though i heard april in the namm presentaion the guy at long and mcquade tells me hes expecting the order in as early as this march....i hope he is right!
L&M received 2 units total from Korg - the first batch, last week (May 9 or so). 86 left on backorder. Next batch set to arrive June.

So 2 lucky Canadians have had their preorders filled.
Old 14th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2039
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sovietpop's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I have been very lucky.
Only one unit in Quebec city, Canada and i got it.
So far i am in love

Usb to midi works flawlessly and i kinda like the form factor (the keyboard is not bad)

Next step : i want to control the ms20 with the Elektron A4
Old 14th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2040
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gruvsyco's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3Member ➑️
1,000 pre-orders from just one retailer is pretty intense, haha. I pre-ordered mine on the first of February, so who knows what my place in line is. But still, I can't get over that; 1,000 pre-orders from just Sweet Water alone. The amount of pre-orders is probably quadrupled when you factor in Guitar Center, Musician's Friend, Sam Ash, etc. No wonder it is taking this long, Korg's little elves are working overtime trying to crank them out. When you think about it, the majority of the people whom are placing these pre-orders are the ones whom keep up to date on synth gear through online news. There's still thousands of musicians out there who don't even know this thing is coming out. I really wonder how well this will sell compared to the microKORG's initial release.
My invoice says Jan 24... 2 months ago I was told mine would be in their 1st shipment due on May 2. Still twiddling my thumbs.
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