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New Korg MS-20 Mini
Old 11th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1981
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by draven5 ➑️
Market crashing ..... Right.
You really haven't noticed prices going down? One on ebay sold for barely over $1k. Anyway, pointless debate, not trying to entertain it any further.
Old 11th May 2013
  #1982
227861
Guest
If you're going on a thread and declaring it crashed anyone has a right to debate you.


The mini just came out and you're declaring a crash. Obviously give it time and you'll see the originals will go up and hold in price.
Old 11th May 2013
  #1983
227861
Guest
If you're going on a thread and declaring it crashed anyone has a right to debate you.


The mini just came out and you're declaring a crash. Obviously a drop was expected as predicted by many then probably a rebound. Give it time and you'll see the originals will go up and hold in price.
Old 11th May 2013
  #1984
Lives for gear
 
sovietpop's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Shell : Thanks a lot for doing this really

Well, case is close for me. The original is just as noisy.
So for anyone wandering if this noise is normal (i was wondering too), it is !!!!! Just like the original ms 20. So no worry i guess.

Anyway i have been playing more with the mini ms20 and honestly its a no brainer.
The thing is well made , the keyboard is ok.
Knobs feel quite good for a synth this price range.

It is meaty, grungy , the filters scream like nothing else. It really sounds vintage to my hears unlike some other new analog i have like DSI and Elektron (though they sounds really good).

For me it is the 80, the sounds of underground new wave from England and Germany (deutsch neue welle).

Anyway its noisy but its part of the synth.

I will do a demo this weekend.

Cheers.
Old 11th May 2013
  #1985
Lives for gear
 
sovietpop's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Shell : Thanks a lot for doing this really

Well, case is close for me. The original is just as noisy.
So for anyone wandering if this noise is normal (i was wondering too), it is !!!!! Just like the original ms 20. So no worry i guess.

Anyway i have been playing more with the mini ms20 and honestly its a no brainer.
The thing is well made , the keyboard is ok.
Knobs feel quite good for a synth this price range.

It is meaty, grungy , the filters scream like nothing else. It really sounds vintage to my hears unlike some other new analog i have like DSI and Elektron (though they sounds really good).

For me it is the 80, the sounds of underground new wave from England and Germany (deutsch neue welle).

Anyway its noisy but its part of the synth.

I will do a demo this weekend.

Cheers.
Old 11th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1986
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by draven5 ➑️
If you're going on a thread and declaring it crashed anyone has a right to debate you.


The mini just came out and you're declaring a crash. Obviously a drop was expected as predicted by many then probably a rebound. Give it time and you'll see the originals will go up and hold in price.
What? Dude, seriously...? Are you TRYING to pick a fight? Sure you "have a right" to debate me... you have a right to be pretentious as hell too, you seem to take that seriously as well. I never "declared" a crash... What is this? An official announcement or something? Lighten up... it was like 1% of the focal point of my post.

There's no denying the market is "crashed" right now, whatever the hell you want to call it... I never said it wouldn't go back up. Why would I buy an original if I felt it was going to stay down forever? The whole point of what I'm saying is, go look around you, it's clearly lower in price right now. I'm willing to bet it will go back up in a bit too, but right now is a good time to buy if you want to get an original. All it takes anybody is 5 minutes of browsing eBay to notice the prices aren't what they were just a few months ago.

I don't understand why you want to argue about this. I even defended the hell out of your Roland thread too... and you just wanna argue with me over one tiny ****ing thing I said, just for the sake of arguing? Why do you even care to debate it? Don't you have something better to do? Ugh... what is it with you people? Why is somebody around here ALWAYS trying to pick a fight to make their online ego look bigger? What a joke, grow up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sovietpop ➑️
Shell : Thanks a lot for doing this really

I will do a demo this weekend.

Cheers.
Cool man, glad you got something out of it. The mini seems like a real killer synth, I think it will be worth the dough from what I've seen. I'd really like to try one in person soon, not sure if that will happen around these parts for a bit though. I'll look forward to your demo.
Old 11th May 2013
  #1987
Lives for gear
 
asynchro_nous's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The fact that something hisses at you under duress should only excite you
Old 11th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1988
Lives for gear
 
Rob Ocelot's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by draven5 ➑️
The mini just came out and you're declaring a crash. Obviously give it time and you'll see the originals will go up and hold in price.
There is going to be a price drop just before and just after the wide release -- that's already happened somewhat. I wouldn't call it a crash, more of a 'realistic price adjustment' from the borderline ludicrous $2500-3000 people were asking. What remains to be seen is what will happen after that. I get the impression that prices for the originals will hold at the $1000-1500 mark for a good while and modestly rise after the initial flurry of MS-20 mini excitement dies down. There's a very good chance the mini will make it on to so many EM tracks that people might get sick of it. :-)

There will always be people looking for the originals, much like how people will track down original classic guitars when there are newer reissues. There will always be purists who will turn their nose up at the reissue for reasons that might be grounded in both reality and unreality. If the pricing behaviour of guitars is anything to go by it will take some time for the originals to appreciate in price and desirability. This is actually a good thing in the long run if you think about it.
Old 11th May 2013
  #1989
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Not a particularly great performance.. but here's me goofing off a little on the MS20 Mini

setup:
Drum loop from iPad2 (Novation Launchpad) plugged into the MS20 Mini's external signal in.
The peaks are triggering the keyboard and the filter.
And then I'm just messing around with knobs and settings and seeing what does what...

The drum loop itself is not distorted, the distortion is from my patching/filters/settings on the MS20 Mini.

I'm in love with this thing!

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...ssingdrums.mp3
Old 11th May 2013
  #1990
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
I had a quick play on a MS20 mini in a local shop here in Japan (on my way to pick up a SH-2) and have to say I found the noise that has been discussed was pretty loud - my original MS20 does not have anything like it. I haven't opened up opened mine up to check if its got the Korg 35 or not, but it has the screw in the VCA panel.
Old 11th May 2013
  #1991
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
dunno...seems the emerging consensus on here is the noise is on the original too..
Old 11th May 2013
  #1992
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Yeah, it could be because mine doesn't have the Korg 35 chip. I'll open it up and check.
Old 11th May 2013
  #1993
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
My one has the small circuit board so I guess that means its a rev 2 - no Korg 35 chip.
Old 11th May 2013
  #1994
Lives for gear
 
xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
interesting observation.. although i seriously doubt the noise comes from the korg 35 filter, it's very plausible that korg eliminated the noise issue in the rev 2 as i cannot see it as anything else then a design flaw of the VCA. again korg themselves outline in their mini description: The VCA maintains the basic design of the original, but it’s been modified to produce less noise than the original.
Old 11th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1995
Lives for gear
 
flat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Noobington ➑️
dunno...seems the emerging consensus on here is the noise is on the original too..


Its a vicious circle for Korg.

If theres hiss, it shouldn't be there because its not 30 years old,

If it isn't there, it doesn't have the vintage vibe of the original.



I can totally understand why manufactuers are apprehensive about re-releasing past classics.

... after all, Church & wedding players don't come armed with toothpicks
Old 11th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1996
Lives for gear
 
riddimshakk's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by flat earth ➑️


Its a vicious circle for Korg.

If theres hiss, it shouldn't be there because its not 30 years old,

If it isn't there, it doesn't have the vintage vibe of the original.



I can totally understand why manufactuers are apprehensive about re-releasing past classics.

... after all, Church & wedding players don't come armed with toothpicks
Right on ! I'll say it again, there's nothing to worry about, it's a synth !
Worrying is for tooth extractions & illness, waiting for a sex change operation etc..
We're just talking about a little bit of money & some circuitry here...Lets keep it real !
Old 11th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1997
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Noobington ➑️
dunno...seems the emerging consensus on here is the noise is on the original too..
Is there actual evidence of this though? In the comparison clip that was previously posted it is clear the hiss is LOUDER on the mini than on the original. That really can't be what Korg intended.
Old 11th May 2013
  #1998
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
bit difficult to keep track of things on this thread.... is the mini vintage clip posted for comparison from the rev 2 ?
Old 11th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1999
Gear Nut
 
coverup0204's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by OttoPilot ➑️
Is there actual evidence of this though? In the comparison clip that was previously posted it is clear the hiss is LOUDER on the mini than on the original. That really can't be what Korg intended.
It is louder. That was demonstrated with previous videos...

I live in the same city as Dunes (we're friends in real life), and I got a call from the store were I bought mine and returned it. The staff told me that the noise was exactly the same on the new batch that has just come in.

I would love to hear what Korg says about this straight from the horse's mouth.
Old 11th May 2013
  #2000
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
But is it louder than the original rev 2 or rev 1 ? If the noise was reduced from the rev 1 to the rev 2 , that would make sense. Unless the comparison demos were from the rev 1 ...
Old 11th May 2013
  #2001
Lives for gear
 
sovietpop's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Listen to those clips

https://soundcloud.com/shellsounddes...gle-wave-noise
https://soundcloud.com/sovietpop-1/mini-ms-20-noise

The first clip is the real one.
Second clips is the mini.

I don't think the mini is louder .
Old 11th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2002
Deleted d6ffc70
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by volumetrik ➑️
How exactly is it harder?

Arturia issue was not meeting demand, for the last time.

No there isn't, no more different than before.

From what I heard from engineers SMT is more reliable, cleaner and accurate.


No 2 analog synth can ever be made identical, there are tiny automated errors in building the circuits the same applies to thru-hole.
man you really need to chill and just accept the reality that is harder in 2013 to make analog synths in 2013 than it is to make digital synths. Especially when you are trying to do it for cheap prices

Analog synths have analog components that make and modify actual sound waves. Because people like to play musical instruments in tune all of these components need to be tuned and trimmed so they all play nicely together. Compare this with a digital synth that has a computer that is sending out very specific digital data which gets converted into an analog signal so we can hear it or record it.

It's this trimming and tuning that causes delays and issues. But you seem to not want to acknowledge the reality of that. It seems like Korg is having the same sort of issues that Arturia had with the minibrute and that Bruno from the Hardware Design of Arturia talked about when he said

Quote:
We thought it would take up to April... we were obviously wrong. Assembling analog hardware is very different from digital, it's in some areas, far more complex, lots of things need to be trimmed, other are drifting... So producing it, requires fairly qualified workers, and very detailed processes. We mis-estimated the difficulty of putting this in place. As we didn't wanted to cut on the quality, it has slowed down the production. We started to ship in June, but with low quantities. Now is early September, We receive weekly deliveries of hundreds of machines, so it will take some more weeks to provides all remaining pre-order, and to have machines available in shops.
So no lies here, only missing experience in Analog mass production, unexpected things, and a very challenging goal.
link to above quote

but hey you obviously know more than an engineer from a synth company on the difficulties of making analog equipment in a digital age. Perhaps since you know so much and want to continue to directly dispute what a hardware designer states, you should go work for Korg, Roland, Yamaha or Arturia and tell them just how incorrect they are.
Old 11th May 2013
  #2003
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Seems like this will be a synth for musicians but apparently not for bedroom headphone listeners...

It's now time to enter phase II of the ms20 crazy mania and cancel your pre-orders :-)
Old 11th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2004
Gear Addict
 
apropos of noth's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Glad the flame wars continue, unabated. Pre-ordered since first day. Salivating mildly at the thought of the mini showing up at my house, in a Pavlovian fashion. As you were.
Old 11th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2005
Lives for gear
 
riddimshakk's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bafonso ➑️
Seems like this will be a synth for musicians but apparently not for bedroom headphone listeners...

It's now time to enter phase II of the ms20 crazy mania and cancel your pre-orders :-)

Synth for musicians you say... Who else would it be for ?

Also,it's nobody's place to stir up fear over a non issue. Anyone reading this should ignore all of these posts that are becoming 'Anti MS 20 mini' it is bull**** !
It's like there's suddenly a mini war being waged against a red hot product which incidently has only been received by a handful of users & even less of them are reporting on it here on this forum.
If you don't want an ms 20 mini that's fine, your choice but why encourage others to buy into your way. Let them make their own mind up.

I for one am still well stoked about this synthesizer. Can't wait to get hold of one, grit, pops, noise, all of it.It's the event of 2013 to me. heh
Old 11th May 2013
  #2006
Lives for gear
 
Plaeground's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
This is thread that never ends
It just goes on and on my friends!
Old 11th May 2013
  #2007
Lives for gear
 
Plaeground's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I'm gonna keep my preorder, get my MS20 and make awesome ****ing sounds non stop. I always end up turning the noise on my voyager and in Diversion up a little for character so I'm not worried too much about the ms20. Diversion has some really nice noise options. My ax80 is noisy as **** as is my tx81z. I want the MS20 to sound filthy like mad max had to compose a gladiator theme for the thunderdome.
Old 11th May 2013
  #2008
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
tbh it seems to me that the issue might just be that the reissue is a bit noisier than some of the vintage ones in circulation 'cause of how many are rev 2s. Regardless, it sounds good..
Old 11th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2009
Lives for gear
 
riddimshakk's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Noobington ➑️
Regardless, it sounds good..

Exactly. In fact, it sounds awesome.
Old 11th May 2013 | Show parent
  #2010
Lives for gear
 
Ben F's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike ➑️
man you really need to chill and just accept the reality that is harder in 2013 to make analog synths in 2013 than it is to make digital synths. Especially when you are trying to do it for cheap prices

Analog synths have analog components that make and modify actual sound waves. Because people like to play musical instruments in tune all of these components need to be tuned and trimmed so they all play nicely together. Compare this with a digital synth that has a computer that is sending out very specific digital data which gets converted into an analog signal so we can hear it or record it.

It's this trimming and tuning that causes delays and issues. But you seem to not want to acknowledge the reality of that. It seems like Korg is having the same sort of issues that Arturia had with the minibrute and that Bruno from the Hardware Design of Arturia talked about when he said



link to above quote

but hey you obviously know more than an engineer from a synth company on the difficulties of making analog equipment in a digital age. Perhaps since you know so much and want to continue to directly dispute what a hardware designer states, you should go work for Korg, Roland, Yamaha or Arturia and tell them just how incorrect they are.
I serviced a Korg MS-20 once and there is bugger all trimming involved. VCO pitch, keyboard CV and filter frequency...that's it. I don't think you can bring up a quote from the Mini Brute and compare it to the MS-20, they are obviously very different circuits.

If are using rare components and point to point wiring such as the original 70s guitar amps or boutique audio equipment then analogue is time consuming and expensive to build. For something like the MS-20 it's far easier now for a large company such as Korg to tool up and manufacture a new design. The difficultly would be moving factories from Japan and retaining the quality control. It would be nothing to do with analogue circuitry...it's just a bunch of resistors, capacitors, op-amps and pots on a PCB, nothing unique or special. SMT is even faster to manufacture, and more accurate...

You appear to understand engineering so here is the service manual for download http://www.keplero.com/material/ms20...viceManual.pdf
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