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New Korg MS-20 Mini
Old 8th May 2013
  #1891
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Stevism's Avatar
 
6 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
honestly, there's bound to be a couple of free units that weren't preordered, from tiny retailers. just like what happened with the minibrute.

i got mine before people that had preordered because i stalked ebay and bought the only one that some small guitar store in arizona got in...it was literally only on ebay for a couple of hours.

i have a preorder with musicians friends that i saved a lot of money on, but if i see it's readily available by some store and MF is playing games with "next shipment, next batch, etc." then i'm just going to cancel it, eat the $85 savings, and buy somewhere else.

not that big of a deal...i ordered mine early march
Old 9th May 2013
  #1892
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
All I rage synths have hiss and noise.
Old 9th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1893
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by el_hombre ➡️
Chiming in on the hiss thing?
I've had mine for a few weeks now and the settings I've been using it with in my band do generally have the filters below the 5 mark.
I do notice a bit of hiss at that point.
I have an original MS-20 and there is a lot of hiss when you press a key, audible when the filter is down or the oscillators have been turned off. I think it was due to cheap VCAs being used, but I could be wrong. To me, it is just part of the synth, and part of it's character which I really like.
Old 9th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1894
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jimmyklane's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevism ➡️
i've heard that it is definitely SM...same signal path, but definitely SM.

i really like the idea of building some lfos in a separate box, maybe attaching it to the side of the mini. how did you do it?
I'll keep this as technically easy as possible, since I have no idea how experienced you are with "traditional engineering" as opposed to empirical experimentation!

the LFOs are the really easy part, as they don't have to be absolutely perfect, just pretty close. I'm using a 24volt center tapped AC transformer with the usual bridge/cap/reg output for a stable, ripple-free(mostly) DC supply of 12V, and a 556 IC chip, which is simply 2 555 Timer ICs in a 14pin DIP. Using an RC network for timing and a voltage divider for "skew" (pulse width and saw-tri-ramp), the capacitor is a tiny electrolytic, and R1 a small 220 Ohm carbon, whereas R2 is a 100k linear pot. I THINK I've gotten it wired so that turning the pot has little effect on PW, but there will always be some, and my scope is in storage (ive done this by EAR and meter) So far, what we have is a square wave output of approx 0-12V, and a range of around .1Hz to a bit over 200Hz. This is just breadboarded, and still a bit sloppy, but concept was proved, so I pressed on.

Using an op-amp integrator, (non-inverting to ground, inverting with capacitor in the feedback path) I'm able to siphon off a saw/tri/ramp wave. I have considered using another 555 for this, as charging the RC network with a constant current will generate a true ramp, as opposed to an exp. one.

This is all driven by a simple common collector NPN transistor, as I have absolutely ZERO idea of what type of drive capability is needed, especially since I want to be able to send these out to multiple destinations!

I have no schematics, but if you are actually serious about this, let me know and I'll try and help via PM or email!
Old 9th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1895
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jimmyklane's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Z ➡️
I have an original MS-20 and there is a lot of hiss when you press a key, audible when the filter is down or the oscillators have been turned off. I think it was due to cheap VCAs being used, but I could be wrong. To me, it is just part of the synth, and part of it's character which I really like.
I would LOVE the opportunity to get in there and rebuild it, but the last time I tried soldering surface mounted components, i had a HELL of a time removing all the bridges and shorts that I caused...i just don't have the right tools to play in that league.
Old 9th May 2013
  #1896
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slujj vohaul's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
What I don't get is let's say Korg have 1000 of these built. Why don't they just divvy those up to their biggest customers (retailer wise) and get them out now? Why would a company continue to push back their first batch just because the other batches are behind? Why would higher volume of demand necessitate that all units be withheld to a later date?

Am I missing some core function of supply and demand economics or something? I'll rule out them BSing on the launch date from the get-go as it seems unrealistic - it'd just piss off their core demographic.

Even if they thought that there would be very low demand (they didn't), you would think that they'd build at least ~500 for launch.

AMIRIGHT OR WHAT?

WHAT'S THE DEAL KORG BROZ?

/endrant

Last edited by slujj vohaul; 9th May 2013 at 04:46 AM.. Reason: whatever
Old 9th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1897
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riddimshakk's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by slujj vohaul ➡️
What I don't get is let's say Korg have 1000 of these built. Why don't they just divvy those up to their biggest customers (retailer wise) and get them out now? Why would a company continue to push back their first batch just because the other batches are behind? Why would higher volume of demand necessitate that all units be withheld to a later date?

Am I missing some core function of supply and demand economics or something? I'll rule out them BSing on the launch date from the get-go as it seems unrealistic - it'd just piss off their core demographic.

Even if they thought that there would be very low demand (they didn't), you would think that they'd build at least ~500 for launch.

AMIRIGHT OR WHAT?

WHAT'S THE DEAL KORG BROZ?

/endrant
Well, here's a couple of points. First off, it's made in china & i'm guessing then that they are not available until Korg gets 'em (**** , their probably not even built by Korg) That's just guessing & so is this...
...Imagine the cost of shipping a given number of containers on big freight ships to many different parts of the world. That's more than one ship right ?
I don't know how much that would amount to but lets just assume it's a big LOT per route !
If they are going to have to absorb those shipping costs & keep the product affordable then it's better for them to ship larger quantities at once.

I'm no authority on that subject but it's easy enough to imagine.
So in summary, they wait until there are X number of units tested & ready to go & then unleash an almighty wrath upon the world.
The following morning , we all switch 'em on at the same time & there's a power cut !
Old 9th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1898
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xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by el_hombre ➡️
Chiming in on the hiss thing?
I've had mine for a few weeks now and the settings I've been using it with in my band do generally have the filters below the 5 mark.
I do notice a bit of hiss at that point.
For me personally, this hasn't been a problem because it's not something that cuts through the other band noise.
And over all, I Love this thing but really need to sit down and spend some serious time getting my head around the patch bay (wouldn't have a clue what I'm doing there yet)
But the hiss, well to me, I think it is there to an extent. For people that are bothered by it, I'd suggest having a go first before buying it.
For me, the only think I don't like about the mini is that they didn't make say the output and external signal in jacks 1/4".
Everything else about this synth I love.
I just had a close listen with headphones to the sonic lab review and i can't detect any hiss when nick turns the cutoff under 5, whereas the unit i tested yesterday had quite a prominent one as you and others here can confirm as well.. i'm now really inclined to believe some units may be faulty.. this might explain the shipping delays as perhaps korg is fixing the issue for their next batch?
Old 9th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1899
messiaen
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasimirsBlake ➡️
I would just like to this. The Minibrute, MS-20 mini and the Mopho (just to pick another modern mono analog) are all great-sounding units that bring different timbres to the table. The forthcoming BSII and Volcas all sound as though they will do too. Here's to analog diversity. Some of us have no desire for Moogs, or Rolands for that matter.
yeeah i'll all for diversity, I will certainly listen on one when they are delivered, and by all accounts it'll take a long time.

By by reckoning only 1 synth advertised at Namm is in stores and thats the king korg, in UK anyway. No Subphatty, no ms 20, as as for the prophet 12 that won't arrive till the autumn I reckon, by which time the prophet 20 would have been announced!

i would be interested in a korg poly6 re-issue, they sound great I don't want to risk getting an original, not yet anyway.....
Old 9th May 2013
  #1900
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xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
.. i gotta admit -hiss issue aside- korg have really nailed the massive original MS-20 flavor with the mini. i was quite shocked by the huge bass tones and piercing leads that came out of those flimsy mini jack (yes i hold prejudice against 1/8") but it did give my voyager & sh-101 a good run for their money.. the tone also sounds correctly vintage.. where not too many modern analog manufacturers have succeeded imo (moog/dsi in particular). the crown jewel is of course the dual filter section, so many cool tones can be shaped out of those from butter soft to gnarly brutal.. i did notice that the resonance peaked in a bit of a unmusical way when in self-oscillation, something the MS-20 vs MS-20mini videos showcased, overall a small reserve for an otherwise fantastic sounding synth. another small critic, the knob range on the envelopes felt rather poorly calibrates, finding sweet spots wasn't very smooth (and the miniature knobs don't help) finally the mini keys were quite unpleasing at first but you'll soon forget them as you realize the main action is on the front panel anyways.. overall fantastic value and a really really fun mono to play with, and i didn't even get a chance to get into the semi-modular craziness...
Old 9th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1901
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CasimirsBlake's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by riddimshakk ➡️
Very valid point made starting from 27min50 sec. ...Large numbers of synths sold is still a very small part of the market compared to certain other gear.
Though I don't have figures for this - really, I'm trying to practise scales, I can't be bothered to go a googlin' - it's not a big stretch to say with confidence that the synth market isn't as small as it was in the 70s. Korg have surely considered this, and I wouldn't be surprised if they sell far, far more of the Minis than the original MS-20s.
Old 9th May 2013
  #1902
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kim olesen's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasimirsBlake ➡️
Though I don't have figures for this - really, I'm trying to practise scales, I can't be bothered to go a googlin' - it's not a big stretch to say with confidence that the synth market isn't as small as it was in the 70s. Korg have surely considered this, and I wouldn't be surprised if they sell far, far more of the Minis than the original MS-20s.
Not as small. But certainly WAY more saturated.
Old 9th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1903
Lives for gear
 
riddimshakk's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasimirsBlake ➡️
Though I don't have figures for this - really, I'm trying to practise scales, I can't be bothered to go a googlin' - it's not a big stretch to say with confidence that the synth market isn't as small as it was in the 70s. Korg have surely considered this, and I wouldn't be surprised if they sell far, far more of the Minis than the original MS-20s.
Agreed.
Old 9th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1904
Gear Maniac
 
dexfx69's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax ➡️
ok i just spent about an hour with one... i'm really impressed with the sound quality, almost makes my voyager sound tame .. however i did notice what i think that guy was talking about few pages back: there is some kind of white noise present at all times, not at all noticeable on open filter sounds but as soon as you go under "5" on the cutoff you can hear the noise bleed through?!! i'll admit i've never played an original MS-20 and for all i know this is something normal but i suspect not... anyone else who's had a go at it care to chime in? cuz if it wasn't for this potential issue i would have picked one up in a heartbeat..
It's a dirty synth; and part of the sound! Enjoy the hairy beast!
Old 9th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1905
Gear Maniac
 
dexfx69's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Z ➡️
I have an original MS-20 and there is a lot of hiss when you press a key, audible when the filter is down or the oscillators have been turned off. I think it was due to cheap VCAs being used, but I could be wrong. To me, it is just part of the synth, and part of it's character which I really like.
Indeed. And although we're so used to perfect noise-free audio in this digital age, sometimes we forget (or aren't even aware yet) that it's noise that forms an essential part of the character of classic analog synths.

Bob Moog himself said not long before he passed, that the main thing that made his filter attractive and unique sounding was the inherent noisiness.
Old 9th May 2013
  #1906
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
I think Korg "improves" the sound of the next batch of MS-20 mini's and the first ones in ten years are the ones to have because they sound so much phatter and rawer.
Old 9th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1907
Lives for gear
 
xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dexfx69 ➡️
It's a dirty synth; and part of the sound! Enjoy the hairy beast!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dexfx69 ➡️
Indeed. And although we're so used to perfect noise-free audio in this digital age, sometimes we forget (or aren't even aware yet) that it's noise that forms an essential part of the character of classic analog synths.

Bob Moog himself said not long before he passed, that the main thing that made his filter attractive and unique sounding was the inherent noisiness.
i'm still not convinced this noise/hiss issue is normal behavior... i've owned quite a few monos throughout the years including vintage korgs, roland & moogs and yes noisefloor is sometimes audible but this is different it's like white noise bleeds through and at a pretty high level. fwiw i love noise, as a source and as modulation but something is wrong here, as this hissy noise doesn't get filtered with the cutoff, it's just there... again i don't hear it in most online demos but a french review of the synth talks about it.. super weird
Old 9th May 2013
  #1908
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NoVi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Reading about the possible issues I personally would rather have seen they released a 900 euro high quality device than a troublesome Chinese build 600 euro device. Not too many expected it to be that cheap anyway.
Old 9th May 2013
  #1909
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sovietpop's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Just got mine but im not sure if there is a problem with my unit.
Its like white noise is leaking.
If i close the filter i can always hear lots of noise and i mean it is not subtle at all.

Anyway maybe the original is the same, i have a good friends of mine who have the real thing so i will compare both unit when i have the time.
Old 9th May 2013
  #1910
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xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
^ yup that's what i'm talking about... it looks like most first batch units are affected by this.. i highly doubt the original behaves like this but by all means check and report back your findings.
Old 9th May 2013
  #1911
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lu77's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by slujj vohaul ➡️
What I don't get is let's say Korg have 1000 of these built. Why don't they just divvy those up to their biggest customers (retailer wise) and get them out now?

/endrant
lol. well think about it. 1000 units spread world-wide. how many stores in the uk? france, germany, the states, Japan, Australia, russia, china.

thats about 1 per store. which is pretty much what we're seeing.

there's at least three major stores in Melbourne Australia alone each with massive waiting lists. I'm 11th at my store.

if this IS the next best selling synth in the world with 100,000 units, it's going to take time to make that many to any standard of quality.

1000 stores (very conservatively!!) world wide. with at least 20 on the waiting list at each one. it's no wonder they've hit a wall in supply.

or perhaps you think they should just serve the biggest american chain and screw the rest of their orders a few extra months?

I think they're doing it the fairest way possible!

I'm happy to wait if it means I get a quality unit with no technical issues.
Old 9th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1912
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sovietpop ➡️
Just got mine but im not sure if there is a problem with my unit.
Its like white noise is leaking.
If i close the filter i can always hear lots of noise and i mean it is not subtle at all.

Anyway maybe the original is the same, i have a good friends of mine who have the real thing so i will compare both unit when i have the time.
Is there any way that you can post a clip of your issue so that we can compare it to other demos?
Old 9th May 2013
  #1913
Lives for gear
 
R3Member's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Another good idea for whomever is experiencing the noise issue is to also post a picture showing the patch parameters along with their sound sample. This way anyone with a real MS-20 or another Mini can get close to recreating it as/if possible.
Old 9th May 2013
  #1914
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Stevism's Avatar
 
6 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
it would be really telling if people just had the osc levels down, and pressed the keys to trigger the vca alone.
Old 10th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1915
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sovietpop's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years


Here is the ms 20 mini noise.
First i am only triggering the amp , osc level to 0.
Then , triangle wave with filter cutoff down.
Old 10th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1916
Lives for gear
 
slujj vohaul's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sovietpop ➡️


Here is the ms 20 mini noise.
First i am only triggering the amp , osc level to 0.
Then , triangle wave with filter cutoff down.
Gotta say, that sounds like, Monotron noisy.
Old 10th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1917
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sovietpop ➡️


Here is the ms 20 mini noise.
First i am only triggering the amp , osc level to 0.
Then , triangle wave with filter cutoff down.
That is very noticeable noise, and not like the demos we've been seeing from Sonic State and Autmatic Gainsay. Which makes me think like others have around here, that there are some extra noisy units.
Old 10th May 2013
  #1918
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Stevism's Avatar
 
6 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
wtf...
Old 10th May 2013 | Show parent
  #1919
Gear Maniac
 
dexfx69's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sovietpop ➡️


Here is the ms 20 mini noise.
First i am only triggering the amp , osc level to 0.
Then , triangle wave with filter cutoff down.
Ouch. That noise sounds loud. Now Im getting worried. Ive got one on preorder. I think Korg would be wise to acknowledgeéaddress the concern in a popular forum like this one.

Looking forward to hearing others trying the same test on orig MS-20s.
Old 10th May 2013
  #1920
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NoVi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Outsourcing to China to save some on the final pricing seems like a great thing (mainly from management perspective), but taking care of the quality control is often completely underestimated. We've seen it With Arturia and even with companies like Apple (production of iPhone 5).
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