Quantcast
New Korg MS-20 Mini - Page 4 - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
New Korg MS-20 Mini
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #91
Lives for gear
 
gruvsyco's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague ➡️
I did the same thing with the new SEM. I think it's a fantastic synth which sounds beautiful. I couldn't give a flying fvck if it doesn't sound as good as the original (which, again, is totally predictable anyway). I like the synth as it is.
I think this is the best comparison. MS20mini is built as close as possible using modern components. I have the SEM pro and to me it sounds just like I remember my old SEM did 20 years ago. Close enough for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague ➡️
How one records a synth plays an important role. I never fully appreciated my Little Phatty until I tried recording it through a UA Solo 610 preamp. The mojo of the LP had been there all along: I just needed to pair it up with the right recording tools to get the sound I was after.

For me new synths are a bit like new blue jeans: they are stiff and uncomfortable and don't look cool until they've been washed a few times and start to fade. In the meantime you can impart some vintage mojo into these newer analogs by using choice preamps, analog FX and other quality outboard.
Looking into that pre, thanks for the tip. Last weekend, I was playing with my new freqbox and my LP and it really fattens up the sound. The tracking was **** (CV) (about an octave at best) but I googled a bit and found out there's a pot you can tweak inside the freqbox that people are getting 5-6 octaves of good tracking. That's my project this weekend. I like this idea as, I don't really use patches on the LP... turn it on and tweak knobs.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #92
Lives for gear
 
Gil missFlag's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by shponglefan ➡️
Because when you get synths like, oh, the Slimphatty, which does drift out of tune, people bitch endlessly about that instead. In fact, I'm seen some people claim that the SP is a defective product due to tuning issues.

So really, there's no pleasing people.
There's a difference between subtle fluctuations in pitch which can sound very pleasing (good drifting), and a constant rise in pitch (one semitone every few minutes) that takes 2 hours to stabilize (bad drifting).
That's the issue I had with my first Slim Phatty until it was replaced with a properly working unit. So yeah, some SP's were defective.

Really, I think the whole drifting thing is overrated. Sure, it can sound great when it's at just the right amount and the fluctuations still remain centered around the note you're playing, but usually it's a major uncontrollable PITA.

I find it's much easier to patch a smooth random LFO to pitch and set the amount and rate to my liking, at least with monosynths. Polys are a whole other story.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #93
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by himalaya ➡️
I really hope that anyone who is interested in analog synths will stay away from the second hand market and instead will invest in one of th new analog synths. This cash would surely be better used by those companies, to support them and help in developing more new toys, rather then feed the pockets of the vintage speculators( "hmm, it really costs $XX, but I will try $XXX, there's bound to be a sucker who will fall for that!").
+1000
and + for "Support your local synth maker!" t-shirts
and + for full blown "Buy new analog synths" campaign
and don't worry about "preaching tone"
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #94
Gear Addict
 
sizzlemeister's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Folks, it doesn't have DCOs or VAOs...it has VCOs like everyone but Sweetwater are saying. As the fellow above posted from the other forum, the Monotribe (and the Monotron DUO) "stablizes" its CV to the oscillators BEFORE the CV gets to the oscillator.

So, it's not even close to a classic Roland or CEM-like DCO where the oscillators are sync'd to a digital clock. Only the control voltage is stabilized. The VCO still generates its wave like a "classic" VCO.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #95
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I think its irrelevant. I don't think the classic MS20 will go down in value, or if it does, not by much, and only temporarily until the hype wears down of the mini. People that use their MS20 as a studio tool only will probably keep theirs, people that want to gig with one may ditch it for the new one. To me, as someone who does not already own an MS20...it is a no-brainer...go with the new one. I have enough vintage synths to know that to some extent they are a bit of a time bomb and may not survive a road trip. The new MS20 would also get more use for me for the simple fact that it bears MIDI (without a retrofit), so I can integrate more easily. The minikeys disappoint but they don't look super small, so I can live with that. I've not done much repair on SMT but I imagine I will have to if I get newer synths/etc, as there aren't a lot of manufacturers that make through hole gear these days...regardless I don't think it will be a problem getting repairs done, especially not in the years ahead when something fails techs will be used to this. The worst thing for repairability is proprietary chips becoming scarce/unavailable, but the MS20 is to my knowledge not one of those designs. If long term reliability was a super concern then it still wouldn't be out of the question to buy a second one, especially since I have to imagine that Korg plans to make these for several years.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #96
Lives for gear
 
NoVi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague ➡️
I bet that by the time they DO decide to re-issue something we will have all moved on to better and greater things. The folks at Roland are totally out of step with the current market. They posted a 1.9 billion YEN loss in their March 2012 annual report which makes for three straight years in a row of massive losses. Not looking good.

ROLAND CORP (7944:Osaka): Financial Statements - Businessweek



Hear, hear! A most miserable death! I've promised myself that SH-2 is the last piece of vintage kit I intend to buy (at least for the remainder of the year lol).
I would like Roland to see a re-issue of the JX3P (on the occasion of the 30 years anniversary or whatever). Simply 2 DCO synth with the chorus of course
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #97
Lives for gear
 
NoVi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kslight ➡️
I have enough vintage synths to know that to some extent they are a bit of a time bomb and may not survive a road trip.
Exactly this is what is holding me back from buying an original MS-20.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #98
Lives for gear
 
Gil missFlag's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
This really is a non-issue. I owned a never serviced, 33 year old MS-20 for a while (sold it and regretted it) and the tuning was rock solid, no warm up time even needed. The MS series synths are not known for their "driftyness", the character of the synth comes mostly from the nasal quality of the oscillators and the gritty and dirty filters.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #99
Lives for gear
 
jimmyklane's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague ➡️
I'm sure aging components contribute to an instrument's mojo but I don't have the technical knowledge to be able to explain (or refute) that. And since it's currently impossible to travel back in time and acquire a new vintage MS-20 to compare with the re-issue, I would have to say that recordings made back in the day are the best we have to go on. But even then there are factors such as preamps, processing, etc which would make it difficult to determine just how an MS-20 sounded back then new out of the box.

How one records a synth plays an important role. I never fully appreciated my Little Phatty until I tried recording it through a UA Solo 610 preamp. The mojo of the LP had been there all along: I just needed to pair it up with the right recording tools to get the sound I was after.

For me new synths are a bit like new blue jeans: they are stiff and uncomfortable and don't look cool until they've been washed a few times and start to fade. In the meantime you can impart some vintage mojo into these newer analogs by using choice preamps, analog FX and other quality outboard.
YES... My Slim Phatty sounds pretty good line-in.... push it through the Demeter Tube Direct on "boost" into the Neve 5012 on the edge of breaking up? NOW you're cookin'!!!

maisonvague, do you rate the solo610 highly for recording synths? I'm considering picking up another flavor of high-end preamp for my synths...currently i've got the Neve portico 5012 and an old Altec (mad mojo, but very noisy so not good for multi-tracking monosynths)
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #100
Lives for gear
 
Space Station's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceacademy ➡️
My main concern is that the new one makes my original one drop in value.
Doubt it. Vintage is vintage and people always pay a premium for that..and they will always say they old ones sound better.

I cant think of one area where a re-issue of a vintage instrument/mic/outboard has lowered the price of the original.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #101
BM0
Lives for gear
 
BM0's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Monotribe doesn't have fine tune control. If it goes out of tune (flat or sharp), there is no way to correct it from the panel. MS-20 has fine tune control so there wouldn't be any need for a digital auto tune. Not saying that they couldn't implement it, but it just wouldn't make much sense, being a monosynth.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #102
Lives for gear
 
maisonvague's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gruvsyco ➡️
Last weekend, I was playing with my new freqbox and my LP and it really fattens up the sound. The tracking was **** (CV) (about an octave at best) but I googled a bit and found out there's a pot you can tweak inside the freqbox that people are getting 5-6 octaves of good tracking. That's my project this weekend.
Please let us know how that works out for you. I've been kicking around the idea of getting a freqbox for my Phatty as well. I would use it primarily as a sub oscillator, so accurate tracking would be important.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVi ➡️
I would like Roland to see a re-issue of the JX3P (on the occasion of the 30 years anniversary or whatever). Simply 2 DCO synth with the chorus of course
They should have started years ago with simple monosynths like the SH-09 or SH-101. I can't believe they couldn't see the writing on the wall as Korg obviously did. Again, I predict they will take note of Korg's (likely) success and come up with something... TOO LATE.

I'm not usually such a pessimist but I have very little confidence in that company right now. Over half my synths are Rolands but not one was made before 1997! For the past fifteen years they seem dead set on a path which just doesn't interest me (at least as far as keyboards are concerned. I like the HandSonic and V-Drum technology though).
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #103
Lives for gear
 
xanderbeanz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
That's what I thought, made no sense.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #104
Lives for gear
 
gruvsyco's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVi ➡️
I would like Roland to see a re-issue of the JX3P (on the occasion of the 30 years anniversary or whatever). Simply 2 DCO synth with the chorus of course
I'm not a Roland fan outside of the 808 but I think something between a JX3P and a Juno would be a good sell. 2 DCOs and a sub, PWM, chorus. Round bass and good pads. Put it in the $1200-$1600 range.

I know most would hope for a Jupiter 8ish reissue, I think that would be a bit on the pricey side.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #105
Lives for gear
 
Optical Lens's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
As long as it does this Hallucinogen - Snarling Remix - YouTube I am happy
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #106
Lives for gear
 
maisonvague's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyklane ➡️
YES... My Slim Phatty sounds pretty good line-in.... push it through the Demeter Tube Direct on "boost" into the Neve 5012 on the edge of breaking up? NOW you're cookin'!!!

maisonvague, do you rate the solo610 highly for recording synths? I'm considering picking up another flavor of high-end preamp for my synths...currently i've got the Neve portico 5012 and an old Altec (mad mojo, but very noisy so not good for multi-tracking monosynths)
It might be a bit overkill if you would only use it on synths. I originally got mine for vocals and the odd single mic acoustic recording. It was only recently that I got around to trying it out on synths -- in particular the Phatty. What I noticed is how much more depth and warmth it brings to the low end and how it takes some of the edge off the highs. I'm not a big fan of the Phatty overdrive. I find it too harsh so it's usually the first thing I turn off whenever I'm tweaking presets. But subtle overdrive on the 610 sounds excellent.

I generally prefer simple and neutral solidstate preamps for synths. But since it seems you already have some nice ones, maybe the 610 could bring some interesting colors to the palette. Overkill or not, it's one of my favorite pieces of gear. Anything that runs through it gets instant vibe and mojo!
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #107
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gruvsyco ➡️
I'm not a Roland fan outside of the 808 but I think something between a JX3P and a Juno would be a good sell. 2 DCOs and a sub, PWM, chorus. Round bass and good pads. Put it in the $1200-$1600 range.

I know most would hope for a Jupiter 8ish reissue, I think that would be a bit on the pricey side.

As cheap as JX3Ps/JX8Ps/similar still are I find it a tough sell, unless they really made some serious enhancements...which at that point I'd prefer they make a new synth.

From the Roland camp to me if they were to make an analog reissue like Korg, the obvious must have device would seem to be an 808 at a sane price point.

Reissuing their well-known poly synths would be way too expensive to take off, but I think they could make an 808 under a grand, with MIDI. I don't think Roland has much interest in remaking their proprietary chips to make another Juno/etc, I think the cost investment would not be very lucrative for them at this time. I could maybe see them doing an SH101, a 303 reissue would have been obvious had it not already been done to death by smaller companies, but the SH101 for me was always a mediocre synth, and I think there would be quite significant overlap from the competition for this sort of thing to make sense. Maybe a new bassline synth, sequencer only?


If they remade an 808 I'd be happy, but any vintage reissue poly I think they would have to price out of my league, and really when you get to that point it seems like DSI has a better synth. I can't imagine ANYONE paying $1200-1600 for a JX3P when they could pretty nearly get a Prophet 08 or just get a Mopho x4...
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #108
Gear Addict
 
FabGear's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Hard to believe they were able to get the original engineers after 35 years for this replication. They must have been very young when The MS20 was first designed. According to Sound-on-Sound the original components were used for the most part. Some slight alterations were done after careful listening to make sure the sound wasn't affected.

News - NAMM 2013: KORG MS-20 mini
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #109
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Does anyone else find the funky synth bass from the likes of Stevie Wonder and Herbie Hancock in their prime to be totally sterile and harsh due to the hardware not being vintage at the time of recording?
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #110
Lives for gear
 
gruvsyco's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kslight ➡️
As cheap as JX3Ps/JX8Ps/similar still are I find it a tough sell, unless they really made some serious enhancements...which at that point I'd prefer they make a new synth.
I can't imagine ANYONE paying $1200-1600 for a JX3P when they could pretty nearly get a Prophet 08 or just get a Mopho x4...
I was actually suggesting the best of both a Juno and JX3P together. You can buy JX3Ps all day long for about 400 on ebay. So a straight 3P clone makes no sense at all. But, if they blend the strengths of both the Juno and the 3P, I think they'd have a winner and it would sound different enough from the DSI stuff.

Quote from Don Solaris in another thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris ➡️
Juno 6, Juno 60
DCO: Standard Ic.
VCF: IR3109
VCA: BA662
ENV: IR3R01

JX-3P
DCO: Standard Ic.
VCF: IR3109
VCA: BA662
ENV: Software
The 2 synths seem to have had quite a bit in common. I guess what I was suggesting was more like a 2 DCO Juno 60 (or 106 or aJuno). I do think this would sell and, for the price I stated above.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #111
Lives for gear
 
metrosonus's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I Think age carries a lot of weight in terms of a vintage synths sound. For years i had played dirty korg hybrids and allways thought "wow this is analog dude" because. of how raw they sounded. Then one day. i picked a near mint ex800 and that " analog" sound dried up. It sounded just like the polyex or whatever vst. Changed many mind about that forever.

Save your money and get some. old ass eqs, stereo amps and stuff and run stuff through that. Cheaper. and who can tell...

I think that's why were seeing bitcrushers and drive controls on the new synths. Thats the sound people equate to analog when in reality its kind of the same as the virtual stuff.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #112
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gruvsyco ➡️
I was actually suggesting the best of both a Juno and JX3P together. You can buy JX3Ps all day long for about 400 on ebay. So a straight 3P clone makes no sense at all. But, if they blend the strengths of both the Juno and the 3P, I think they'd have a winner and it would sound different enough from the DSI stuff.

Quote from Don Solaris in another thread.


The 2 synths seem to have had quite a bit in common. I guess what I was suggesting was more like a 2 DCO Juno 60 (or 106 or aJuno). I do think this would sell and, for the price I stated above.
The voice and filter chips for Rolands popular polys do not exist anymore, that is my point, they would have to be recreated...which making custom chips would significantly add to the cost and I think is the main barrier for Roland to attempt to manufacture said models again. It is not like Junos/JXs cost several thousand dollars on the used market right now, like a well functioning MS20 costs around $2k for a single voice... One of the biggest appeal factors of the Mini MS20 is a price point that is a fraction of the vintage instrument, whereas any poly that Roland would create would likely be 2-4 times more expensive than a vintage model. I don't think modern synths in that price range have enough of a market to be profitable (enough) for Roland to bother, it would price them out of the beginner market that Korg will latch onto, for sure. A 2 DCO Juno 60/106 would without a doubt exceed your price range suggestion, and would perhaps sell in the low hundreds, but not likely the many thousands that I see the Mini MS20 moving. I doubt that the Prophet 08 is DSI's money maker, though certainly it sells they also have the technology established and spread across several instruments to maximize their investment...and they are a substantially smaller company than Roland so the kind of money they see makes a lot more difference than for a company who makes most of their dough on worship and video/other electronics/non-synth geek sales. You can buy an MKS70 with programmer for under a grand today, which would be at least twice the synth suggested (minus keys) at probably half the price.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #113
Lives for gear
 
ohmicide's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaidon ➡️
you cannot...
I must... for that money I can get like.. a couple software synths??

DAMN IT THAT'S NOT HELPING
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #114
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmicide ➡️
I must... for that money I can get like.. a couple software synths??

DAMN IT THAT'S NOT HELPING
An iPad with the iMS20?... nah
A.
Old 26th January 2013
  #115
Lives for gear
 
The Hamburglar's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I posted this in the other thread before it was closed. I know others are wondering as well.

Can anyone tell me more about how difficult it would be for me to integrate this into my 5U modular? I understand that 1/8" to 1/4" is one thing. But could I for instance:
1. Use the noise out as audio straight-up?
2. Could I use the sample and hold out to control something else in my modular?

I'm so confused about it.

I could practically fund an MS-20 mini by selling my noise, sample & hold, and ms-20 filter modules...
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #116
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hamburglar ➡️
Can anyone tell me more about how difficult it would be for me to integrate this into my 5U modular? I understand that 1/8" to 1/4" is one thing. But could I for instance:
1. Use the noise out as audio straight-up?
2. Could I use the sample and hold out to control something else in my modular?

I'm so confused about it.

I could practically fund an MS-20 mini by selling my noise, sample & hold, and ms-20 filter modules...
If Mini is anything like original:

1) You can use both noise outs just like any modular noise source. (only issue might be noise level, but MS noise should be hot enough, it's 5 Vp-p)

2) MS-20 doesn't have true S/H, it's track-and-hold (when clock input is high (or low, don't remember now) it passes trough S/H input to output, when clock is low it holds). I think you can make it behave close to normal S/H with "special" cable (in essence, you need small capacitor in series with clock input, you put that in cable connector, and than you patch square output of LFO to MS clock in on S/H), but it will not be ideal (if classic "random LFO" application of S/H you would have sortof small noise burts on edges because of small but still finite track phase time)
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #117
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6bmVP8HDb4

Tone Machine. Finally someone plays more than a two notes and says "isn't it great". Too bad about having to one hand it to hold a camera. I would love to see an hour long demo, that's all I ask.
I'm super impressed with the tone and also find it much more pleasing than the sub phatty's tone how ever that does have it's moments for sure. Much less sterile than the LP. btw, people sell Jx-3ps for cheap all the time. I picked up one on ebay last year for $160 with shipping. Funny since people try to sell Juno 60s for $1000!
Old 26th January 2013
  #118
Lives for gear
 
SonicBern's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicBern ➡️

Originally Posted by SonicBern View Post
I then discovered the MS20-Mini at the same leak site after a bit of digging and added that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 0fc8128 ➡️
So does the MS-20 mini has VCOs or digital stabilized VCOs?
I will copy my reply and your question in the new MS-20 thread

Now Don has split the threads answering in the MS-20 thread...

My guess is the MS-20 is 100% Analog VCO and all they have done is added a monitor that keeps an eye on any drift of the VCO and corrects it by retuning it while it works.

That just stops it drifting out of tune so would be the best of both worlds for this synth...

They may have taken a view on how much drift they will allow to keep some character but effectively remove the need for a warm up period and effects of temperature change on tuning.

If they have done that then they have done the best that can be done to be practical and user friendly without removing any of the character of the original...
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #119
Lives for gear
 
NoVi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by CV_Wonder ➡️
Switched On Demo: Korg Mini MS-20 at NAMM 2013 (Direct Audio Recording) - YouTube

Tone Machine. Finally someone plays more than a two notes and says "isn't it great". Too bad about having to one hand it to hold a camera. I would love to see an hour long demo, that's all I ask.
I'm super impressed with the tone and also find it much more pleasing than the sub phatty's tone how ever that does have it's moments for sure. Much less sterile than the LP. btw, people sell Jx-3ps for cheap all the time. I picked up one on ebay last year for $160 with shipping. Funny since people try to sell Juno 60s for $1000!
Wow! the sound is definitely there! I had a MS-20 back in the day and the thing I liked so much about it, is it so easy to get great sounds. The lay out of the machine is so ...uh logical. I'm really tempted.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #120
Lives for gear
 
Rob Ocelot's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague ➡️
I'm sure aging components contribute to an instrument's mojo but I don't have the technical knowledge to be able to explain (or refute) that. And since it's currently impossible to travel back in time and acquire a new vintage MS-20 to compare with the re-issue, I would have to say that recordings made back in the day are the best we have to go on. But even then there are factors such as preamps, processing, etc which would make it difficult to determine just how an MS-20 sounded back then new out of the box.
It would be interesting to hear a recently recapped and upgraded original MS-20 (Korg-35 filter) against the Mini. That would be a more fair comparison.

Will the Mini MS-20 sound different?

Yes. There's no way that SMT can 100% replicate how large discrete components behave with respect to heat dissipation, voltage and current stability.

Will it matter to the majority of people other than a few analog purists?

No. It will be 'close enough' for 99% of people who ever wanted one.

Kind of funny how the MS-20 used to be considered the ugly duckling of the synth world when it was released and now it's aircraft panel looks is considered cool. I suspect many people will buy the reissue just so they can be seen on stage with one.
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 5073 views: 537857
Avatar for shortyedwards
shortyedwards 8th February 2021
replies: 76 views: 17930
Avatar for hcppp
hcppp 30th June 2020
replies: 813 views: 63387
Avatar for meh
meh 8 hours ago
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump