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New Korg MS-20 Mini
Old 12th February 2013
  #751
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pinkerton's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Yea but then again you can use silent way for modulation to a certain capacity. If you absolutely must have automation.
Old 13th February 2013 | Show parent
  #752
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nectarios's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jags ➡️
Here's my take on the Moog Sub and the Korg MS20.

The Korg is a "clone" of the original. (Although only 86% the original size) This, in my opinion, really cheapens and insults the original. A company should build upon and improve and modernize a classic. A Porsche is a great car no mater what year and a classic Porsche is even better because it is a classic. The same can be said of the classic Korg MS20 except now there will be thousands of these cheap imitations around that will destroy the value, collectability, and beauty of the classic original.

The Moog Sub is a "reincarnate" of the classic MiniMoog. It retains all the original characteristics that made the MiniMoog a great instrument. It's designed as a great entry level mono synth with lot's of knobs and the great Moog sound. But it also improves on the classic as it includes 16 presets, full midi/usb implementation, computer editor/librarian, and improvements to the sound architecture. It improves on a classic and does not just copy it, and in the future it will become a classic of it's own.

In creating a new offering of a mono synth to the masses I feel that Moog did it right and took the correct approach in creating the Moog Sub. Korg, on the other hand, is cheating us by simply creating a cheap clone of a classic original.

Now compare the sound of the Korg MS-20 Mini and the Moog Sub Phatty in these two videos. Both direct line ins. It's only obvious that the Moog blows the Korg away!!
Its all about what sound you are going for. I have a few Moog products, including a Slim Phatty and a Minitaur, (and MF-102 and MF-108M) Both great sounding synths and despite their limitations, they inspire me to use them in tunes.

With regards to the new MS-20. I could not care less if its 86% of the size of the original. Its a brand new synth, that (judging from the videos) has a great tone, that is completely different to the Moog one, so it will serve me well when wanting to create a contrast of sounds in my tunes. Will I use it for basslines? Sure, if I want that chunky mid character in my basslines, hell I might even run my Slim Phatty/Minitaur/x0xb0x through it for more VCOs, or vice versa... I bet I will get some killer patches with this combination...I could even have HPF leads using the Moog VCOs as a source, cause after all, my Slim Phatty/Minitaur or SubPhatty, has no HPF. Which takes me to my other point...the new MS-20 runs circles around the budget Moog synths in terms of sound design...I am going to have a lot of fun patching in cables and building patches from the base up without having to buy an expensive modular system...even a budget Doepfer will cost almost twice as much with its case in order to get the same palette of sounds, by buying equivalent modules and a MIDI to CV module.
And I am glad they kept the price low and just added MIDI, I've always wanted an MS-20, but it was too expensive for me to justify spending so much on it.
I love hardware clones of original analog synths that sound very close and are way cheaper. I love my x0xb0x!

Yes, the bass on the SubPhatty is rounder, bigger...but!...the modulation options and sound design from the MS-20 Mini is light years ahead from the SubPhatty and it has a great analog tone that will compliment my Slim Phatty and my Minitaur.

Having such a classic synth getting a remake today at that price?
If you ask me, we've never had it better.


*EDIT* I just read more into the thread and realized I registered on here to kick the horse right after it died :D
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #753
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Spectral Climax's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nectarios ➡️
I am going to have a lot of fun patching in cables and building patches from the base up without having to buy an expensive modular system...even a budget Doepfer will cost almost twice as much with its case in order to get the same palette of sounds, by buying equivalent modules and a MIDI to CV module.
Keep in mind that MS-20 is not a semi modular synth. There is no VCO out. That panel at the right is there to make it a bit more flexible for modulation routing. You can't compare it to the flexibility of a Doepfer system.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nectarios ➡️
Yes, the bass on the SubPhatty is rounder, bigger...
Where did you hear that? I still can't find a demo which sounds like your description. Every single SubPhatty demo I heard has a metallic (usually distorted) sound with a focus in mid frequency content...Slim/Little Phatty sounds much more rounded and bigger IMO.
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #754
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectral Climax ➡️
Keep in mind that MS-20 is not a semi modular synth. There is no VCO out. That panel at the right is there to make it a bit more flexible for modulation routing. You can't compare it to the flexibility of a Doepfer system.
That's because my old Doepfer/Analog Systems hybrid
was a fully modular system, whereas the MS-20 is a semi modular synth, i.e. less available patch points available than my old Doepfer system and the patch points you generally have available, when you buy modules from modular companies and there is an architecture available without having to patch cables in, unlike my old analog modular. And this is why I am not comparing them. I just said that its going to be fun patching cables in again to make patches, without having to buy a modular system, all over again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectral Climax ➡️
Where did you hear that? I still can't find a demo which sounds like your description. Every single SubPhatty demo I heard has a metallic (usually distorted) sound with a focus in mid frequency content...Slim/Little Phatty sounds much more rounded and bigger IMO.
The VCOs on the SubPhatty sound more like the VCOs on my Minitaur, than the VCOs on my Slim Phatty. Apparently the there has been some implementation that has been used on the Minitaur VCOs, copied over to the VCOs of the new SubPhatty, as stated by Moog on the Moog Music forum. They are not explicit about it, it could be just for tracking stability and 0 warm up times, it could also have to do with the actual sound, I don't know.
Having said that, I am open to the possibility that this is not the case, after all I do not have a SubPhatty in my studio to compare it to my Slim Phatty. In any case that is the impression I got from listening to the demos. My Minitaur sounds rounder and bigger than my Slim Phatty for sure, especially when you put the VCO waveform dial right at the Saw position on the Slim Phatty...you need to slightly go towards the Tri position to go into that deep phat sounding sawtooth territory where the Minitaur, resides.

This is the video on which I heard and based my opinion on the sound.

http://youtu.be/V_kiqQpiVjE

I am not knocking my Slim Phatty by the way, I love it and use it day in/day out. I prefer the sound of the Phatty VCF to the sound of the Minitaur VCF, where at high resonance settiings the VCF kinda gets "detached" from the VCO sound and does not have the same "smudgy" sound the Phatty's VCF, has.
I am simply posting my opinion on it.
Old 17th February 2013
  #755
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🎧 10 years
Had the privilege to try out the other day and it's basically a toy synth. The pots feel pretty clunky (Even worse that the P08 non PE edition). Then again the sound is there and it's fun to play. But if you would use this during a live setup I'd bring a spare and because of it's price that's viable.
I'd say it'd be a nice addition to any setup and a nice introduction of those young peeps who are trying to go out of the box with their first hardware. It will sell as hot cakes any many will complain about the build quality.
Old 17th February 2013
  #756
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Hey guys, firstly, apologies if this has been asked/answered already.

I'm thinking of ordering the MS-20 mini and I'd like to know.

Can the KBD CV output be used to play my Slim Phatty?
And if so, can I still play the MS-20 mini at the same time?

ie: Can I 'stack' them using CV to control both, and route the outputs of both into my DAW for the audio side of things?

Obviously I could just play both via MIDI controller using their USB connectivity, but it'd be sweet if I could use the MS-20 mini's KB to play both.

I'm assuming if anyone knows / has done something like this with the original MS-20 then it should apply to the new mini.
Old 17th February 2013 | Show parent
  #757
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Spectral Climax's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuse ➡️
Had the privilege to try out the other day and it's basically a toy synth. The pots feel pretty clunky (Even worse that the P08 non PE edition).
P08 encoders skipped values but they were quite durable...in fact, they were much better than the wobbly knobs of a Little Phatty!

So, you call this "a toy synth" based on the knobs...? what else? How was the chassis? the keys? (except their size)

I don't think that Korg made this instrument with professionals in mind. I believe that they made it for the enthusiasts and the people who flirt with the idea of an analog synth...mostly home studio users...so, there is no problem if it isn't built like a tank. After all, there are plenty of used original MS-20s at the eBay this period for those who appreciate the heavier construction and bigger size for two times the price of a new MS-20...
Old 17th February 2013 | Show parent
  #758
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Dogboy73's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectral Climax ➡️
Keep in mind that MS-20 is not a semi modular synth. There is no VCO out. That panel at the right is there to make it a bit more flexible for modulation routing. You can't compare it to the flexibility of a Doepfer system.
I thought that's why they could these things 'semi-modular'!
Old 17th February 2013 | Show parent
  #759
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Spectral Climax's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogboy73 ➡️
I thought that's why they could these things 'semi-modular'!
Semi modular is a synth with a fixed signal routing that provides the user with patch points in every basic section...an example would be the Cwejman S1 mkII or the Telemark. Korg used parts of a modular design in order to provide some more freedom in modulation / performance routings but...that's it...there is nothing more in there without freely controllable and routable VCOs that can also be used as modulation sources and individual destinations.
Old 17th February 2013 | Show parent
  #760
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nectarios's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectral Climax ➡️
Semi modular is a synth with a fixed signal routing that provides the user with patch points in every basic section...an example would be the Cwejman S1 mkII or the Telemark. Korg used parts of a modular design in order to provide some more freedom in modulation / performance routings but...that's it...there is nothing more in there without freely controllable and routable VCOs that can also be used as modulation sources and individual destinations.
Agreed, but it still is a semi modular synth. Not having a VCO CV out to modulate another destination, does not mean it is not. Actually the MS-20 is one of the most famous semi modular synths, less than perfect, but you can patch cables in and alter the signal path to your liking.
Old 17th February 2013 | Show parent
  #761
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nectarios's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkyspacecadet ➡️
Hey guys, firstly, apologies if this has been asked/answered already.

I'm thinking of ordering the MS-20 mini and I'd like to know.

Can the KBD CV output be used to play my Slim Phatty?
And if so, can I still play the MS-20 mini at the same time?

ie: Can I 'stack' them using CV to control both, and route the outputs of both into my DAW for the audio side of things?

Obviously I could just play both via MIDI controller using their USB connectivity, but it'd be sweet if I could use the MS-20 mini's KB to play both.

I'm assuming if anyone knows / has done something like this with the original MS-20 then it should apply to the new mini.
Midi notes are transmitted through the USB interface of the MS-20 Mini, so in theory you will be able to play notes on the MS-20 and trigger the SP as well.
Old 17th February 2013 | Show parent
  #762
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nectarios ➡️
Midi notes are transmitted through the USB interface of the MS-20 Mini, so in theory you will be able to play notes on the MS-20 and trigger the SP as well.
Yeah but can I not go from the MS20mini KB CV out into the SL's CV in?
Old 17th February 2013 | Show parent
  #763
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nectarios's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkyspacecadet ➡️
Yeah but can I not go from the MS20mini KB CV out into the SL's CV in?
Not sure. Will let you know when mine ships. I have a Slim Phatty as well.
Old 17th February 2013 | Show parent
  #764
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nectarios ➡️
Not sure. Will let you know when mine ships. I have a Slim Phatty as well.
I loves mah Slim.

I'm tempted to pre-order the 'mini tomorrow. The CV thing isn't a requirement, but it would be neat.
Old 17th February 2013
  #765
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nectarios's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I love my Slim as well. Use it in every single tune I make.
Old 17th February 2013 | Show parent
  #766
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nectarios ➡️
I love my Slim as well. Use it in every single tune I make.
I was programming mine with Renoise the other day. I started music with trackers in the early 90s. Doing it with a tracker is really quite something, hard work, but the amount of modulation and so on is amazing.

The things I could do with a couple more SPs...
Old 17th February 2013 | Show parent
  #767
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Spectral Climax's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nectarios ➡️
Agreed, but it still is a semi modular synth. Not having a VCO CV out to modulate another destination, does not mean it is not. Actually the MS-20 is one of the most famous semi modular synths, less than perfect, but you can patch cables in and alter the signal path to your liking.
You can't alter the signal path. You can only alter the modulation path a bit. The signal path is fixed. The patch cables on the MS20 are not meant for creating more sounds but more ways of controlling the synth.
Old 17th February 2013 | Show parent
  #768
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuse ➡️
Had the privilege to try out the other day and it's basically a toy synth. The pots feel pretty clunky (Even worse that the P08 non PE edition). Then again the sound is there and it's fun to play. But if you would use this during a live setup I'd bring a spare and because of it's price that's viable.
I'd say it'd be a nice addition to any setup and a nice introduction of those young peeps who are trying to go out of the box with their first hardware. It will sell as hot cakes any many will complain about the build quality.
Have you used one of the first generation Electribes? Would you say it's worse than those? They have held up quite well despite having plasticky build.
Old 17th February 2013 | Show parent
  #769
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nectarios's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectral Climax ➡️
You can't alter the signal path. You can only alter the modulation path a bit. The signal path is fixed. The patch cables on the MS20 are not meant for creating more sounds but more ways of controlling the synth.
Correct, wrong choice of words. I 'll re phrase, you can patch in control voltages to create patches.
In any case, I still stand by my original comment that the MS-20 is a semi modular synth.
Doing a search on it on google brings up articles about it being one of the most famous semi modular synths, of all time.
Old 17th February 2013
  #770
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Acid Hazard's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
These types of synths are actually known as "Patchable", not semi-modular.
Old 17th February 2013 | Show parent
  #772
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ionian's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jags ➡️
Well it seems like I have ruffled a few feathers.
Lol...I wouldn't give it much thought. It's the internet.

Regards,
Frank
Old 17th February 2013
  #773
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Synth Buddha's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
So a low cost 2013 synth by Korg has poor build quality. Why am I not surprised.
Old 18th February 2013
  #774
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skira's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Where did anyone say the new mini "has poor build quality"?
Old 18th February 2013 | Show parent
  #775
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flat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by skira ➡️
Where did anyone say the new mini "has poor build quality"?
I think someone said the pots were a little cheap. But I would imagine (if its anything like my Legacy MS20) the case is metal and quite decent. Considering the amazing price they are going to be selling it for, to expect high end build quality is perhaps expecting a little too much. Remember most synths in this price range are total plastic.

Like the Monotribe, at least they are still using metal casing.
Old 18th February 2013 | Show parent
  #776
WDM
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synth Buddha ➡️
So a low cost 2013 synth by Korg has poor build quality. Why am I not surprised.
Which product from Korg you consider as a poor build quality? and why you're not surprised?
Old 18th February 2013 | Show parent
  #777
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Synth Buddha's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by WDM ➡️
Which product from Korg you consider as a poor build quality? and why you're not surprised?
A great example would be the MicroX, which had knobs that you hardly deared touch for fear of breaking them, but even things like the Karma and Kronos keyboards are somewhat cheaply built when you consider the fact that they're supposedly pro keyboards for stage use. Korg always had some issues with things like buttons not working well after a while (like on the Korg 01/W or my Z1), but things have gotten worse over the course of the last decade.

So yeah, I'm not surprised to hear that a cheap ass synth like the new MS-20 has lousy feeling knobs, and that some people would take a spare with them if they were using one of these synths live. Not at all surprised, actually.
Old 18th February 2013 | Show parent
  #778
WDM
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synth Buddha ➡️
A great example would be the MicroX, which had knobs that you hardly deared touch for fear of breaking them, but even things like the Karma and Kronos keyboards are somewhat cheaply built when you consider the fact that they're supposedly pro keyboards for stage use. Korg always had some issues with things like buttons not working well after a while (like on the Korg 01/W or my Z1), but things have gotten worse over the course of the last decade.

So yeah, I'm not surprised to hear that a cheap ass synth like the new MS-20 has lousy feeling knobs, and that some people would take a spare with them if they were using one of these synths live. Not at all surprised, actually.
Oh, I forgot about Micro X. This one indeed felt flimsy to me too, due probably of plastic. I never owned one so I'll take your word for it.

I got microKorgXL, 2 Electribes for quite few years now and never had a single glitch with those. Those are in the same price range as new MS20 mini. Even Monotribe has a decent build quality considering the $250 price.

So, I hope Korg will treat all us good at their 50th anniversary.
Old 18th February 2013
  #779
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Reptil's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I played with one for about half an hour
the outer shell is made out of hard plastic, with reïnforced corners
the keys are not full size but a little bigger than mini keys
I could play on it. there's a gap inbetween the keys and the casing, if I'd own one I'd cover that with a felt strip or something. stuff falls in there and gets stuck
the sockets are ok, the pots have a nice feel to them, nothing special though
the sound was good, loud, clear, and it can go deep. I wasn't wowed by the resonance, but I'm spoiled and it was pretty noisy where I was listening, I had to push the headphones against my head to block out the sound. so don't take my word for it.
I feel there's more "rawness" in the original, but that's to be expected.
all in all a good little synth in the first impression. I wouldn't buy it because it overlaps my modular stuff, but it would be a good start point for any modular eurorack setup or as stand alone analogue in any synth studio.
Old 18th February 2013 | Show parent
  #780
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skira's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synth Buddha
So a low cost 2013 synth by Korg has poor build quality. Why am I not surprised.

Skira: Which product from Korg you consider as a poor build quality?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synth Buddha ➡️
A great example would be the MicroX
Oh, something no one is talking about. That didn't come out in 2013 anyway.

Quote:
So yeah, I'm not surprised to hear that a cheap ass synth like the new MS-20
Oh I see, you're just trolling.

Quote:
has lousy feeling knobs, and that some people would take a spare with them if they were using one of these synths live. Not at all surprised, actually.
Have a nice day.
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