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New Korg MS-20 Mini
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #31
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golden beers's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I worry about the unknown shortcomings of the new one.
I try to be unemotional about gear so for me it's all about 3 things:

Does it sound like the old one? Hype says yes. Marketing says yes.. I'm trying to take that with a pinch of salt. I can't believe it will sound exactly the same... Close enough and I'm happy to swap.

Does it have the same function as the old one... Again salesman says yes.. But this is still an unknown.. Are the range of the pots the same? Or close enough? Does the patch bay work well.?

Is it reliable?
This is something that none of us will have an idea about for a couple of years. Although my ms20 is long in the tooth I can still fix it when it fuks up. The new one? SMT... No chance
You think I'd be able to get the schema on the internet for the mini? No chance.. So yea it's cheap.. But if it fuks up like the old one can, it's a brick.. Not so cheap for a brick.

I'm seriously considering selling my ms20 before the price crash. But I need to see at least a proper video demo before I do that. Not just a crap sales pitch.

But yea, here's one ms20 owner ready to throw out the old and take in the new.... Exact same thing
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #32
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Carey M's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon ➑️
It seems to be.
It is like the original, so it isn't, except for the one 1V/Oct input for the VCOs. You can check the specs from Korg: Monophonic Analog Synthesizer | Korg MS-20 Mini
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #33
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Sounds like VCO's!
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #34
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Reptil's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Maybe they were clever and put in the option. Actually that was suggested some time ago here on GS. heh

Edit: seems they didn't. Keyboard is linear though. So it'll be possible to use with a modular.

I want to hear it
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #35
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
analog oscillators (now digitally stabilized),

whether its vco or dco its ' stabalized ' and that means basically = perfect tuning and the whole charm of analog vco's is they DO DRIFT.

The problem is you have all these techs and designers trying to make perfect precise Stable circuits to a point where they loose the beauty.

Its why people still buy old synths , as they have this wow and flutter, this up and down INSTABILITY .

I dont get the manufacturers , why is the world so obessed with perfection ?

why are the early moogs so highly valued >? tuning Instability really.

Its why so many ' nu analogues' can sound ****e.They dont drift which is why our ears often hear them as a bit sterile.

Its horses for courses, alot of the new analogue synths i find bland in their sound or somehow missing the magic of older ones, i wish that wasnt the cash but my ears here ' perfect design ' but i know people who love the new stuff like arturia , it just sounds to precise and ' stable ' to my ears.

what was wrong with the original vco's and why did they need to be stabilized ?
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #36
Gear Nut
 
Hybrid88's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Actually very good point on the repair issues. Microkorgs are the same after people plug in a wrong adapter. They are a major PITA to fix if they go wrong.

Ah well, my take on it all - I have an original MS with KORG35 filter and it is my fav mono. I will still keep it. *But*, I will be using the new one day to day and keep the old in its box. I love my vintage gear, but I hate it's fragileness and irreplaceability, so I'd rather use something new, and this thing is shaping up to be a perfect replacement.

Good news I say! :D
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #37
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldphinga ➑️
Will you keep your original whilst its still worth something? Or sell it for a new MS20 mini? Thoughts?
i sold an ms2o some time back but missed it alot and i am wishing i had not sold it but will i buy the new one ?

no , i just think the older synths are a better investment , have a better aged sound and some how a magic you cant find in new gear , i find most new gear unless its ' newtechnology ' ( kronos for instance and vsynth , kyma , modular stuff that pushes forward etc ) somehow misses the point.

Its the old / aged quality of synths i personally love , the new ms20 i really hope lowers the price of the old ones as thats the one i will go for.

You get what you pay for and even if it sounds the same pretty much i still find using an old synths adds something to the experience for me that no new gear can.

A clone will forever be a clone , on some level it will be fake , a second version , stabalized ? ready packaged.

There was a magic to the early days of synth design and manufacturer all but lost now.You have ems , euro builders , macbeth still somehow doing it right but i think these big companies like korg lost it on that level , they are better at new developments like those mentioned above.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #38
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
If the new version was an exact full sized physical replica rather than a cheapened miniaturised version I'd consider possibly selling my original, but as it stands I love playing it far too much to let it go. I have no problem buying a mini to use in addition to the original however. It'll go nicely with my eurorack.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #39
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Synth Buddha's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Not an MS-20 owner, but I can almost guarantee that the new synth will not sound exactly like the old one. These newer replicas never really do, for a variety of reasons. It'll sound closer than the software replica, though, which I do have an have never been impressed with at all (although the controller is very nice for controlling softsynths that actually do sound good).

And while it's a cool release, it's not something I'm interested in buying personally. Trying to recreate the past doesn't really excite me (although I know that's not the goal of a lot of users of these synths) so I'd love for Korg to do something really NEW with analog technology instead of this thing. That said, I still salute them for releasing this synth, and I'm sure lots of people will love it. At 600 bucks it seems like a no brainer to me if you're into the sound. And it's great to see heavyweights like Korg actually listen to users and give them what they want.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #40
Deleted 8456dd3
Guest
There was a video uploaded somewhere- i didnt think the filters on the new one broke up as nicely as the old one, it sounded like a cleaner version.
The old one is really wild im not sure that the new one is quite the same beast. Think old SEM - new SEM. Minimoog - Voyager.
I've no plans to sell mine for a new one, what the old one is worth second hand now is of little consideration to me. Vintage always holds its value anyway, the new SEM and Voyager haven't dented the old prices.
And Golden Beers has a good point about servicing problems, how many techs work with SMT?
I dont want to sound negative about the new one it sounds and looks really good and this is really great for all the people who want an MS20, great value, big to Korg.
Hopefully they might give us an MS50 and SQ10 later- those i would buy!
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #41
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NoVi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I admit € 600 looks a bit too good to be true (and you know what they say about that).
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #42
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maisonvague's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I don't have an original MS-20 but I can guarantee you that the new ones will never measure up to the standards of those who own the vintage model. It's not even worth debating since it WILL happen regardless. It's just the way these things go.

I see the re-issue as being mostly of value to those who don't already have one (like, for instance, ME) -- those of us that either missed out on it the first time around or, for one reason or another, never got around to getting one. Speaking strictly for myself, I will judge it purely on how it sounds and functions in its own right and not how it compares to the original.

I did the same thing with the new SEM. I think it's a fantastic synth which sounds beautiful. I couldn't give a flying fvck if it doesn't sound as good as the original (which, again, is totally predictable anyway). I like the synth as it is.

With that said, the advantage of self-repair on the older synths is important and definitely something to consider before making a decision. If I had an original model I don't think I would replace it with a re-issue even if they do turn out to sound almost identical (at least, not without knowing more about what all's inside the re-issue).
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #43
Gear Guru
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Because people like to have control of their tuning if they play in a band with other instruments which CAN keep their tune.

Tuning instability is one of things that all synth manufacturers WANTED to get rid of. They didn't intend to have it there in the first place.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #44
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jarlywarly's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I love it when the analogue purists wet themselves over DCOs. It's well funny.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #45
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Spectral Climax's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague ➑️
I will judge it purely on how it sounds and functions in its own right and not how it compares to the original.
Exactly my thoughts... I guess it's very possible for the new MS20 to have a cheaper construction, but, it still costs very cheap to pay so much attention to that...My Mopho KB has a great build quality (except the on/off switch) and its made by a relatively small company...I bet that a big company like Korg have managed to make the new MS20 equally qood or even better.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #46
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volumetrik's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague ➑️
I don't have an original MS-20 but I can guarantee you that the new ones will never measure up to the standards of those who own the vintage model. It's not even worth debating since it WILL happen regardless. It's just the way these things go.
We will never hear a mint original 1978 MS-20 to do a comparison with the reissue MS-20, how do electronic parts change over 35 year span? what kind of sonic changes do they introduce to the sound? I heard all kinds of things that happen to them.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #47
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schmuck's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I like my ms10 and ms20 a lot. I don't think this will change because of the reissue. Very excited about what is currently happening though.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #48
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danielb's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague ➑️
I don't have an original MS-20 but I can guarantee you that the new ones will never measure up to the standards of those who own the vintage model. It's not even worth debating since it WILL happen regardless. It's just the way these things go.

I see the re-issue as being mostly of value to those who don't already have one (like, for instance, ME) -- those of us that either missed out on it the first time around or, for one reason or another, never got around to getting one. Speaking strictly for myself, I will judge it purely on how it sounds and functions in its own right and not how it compares to the original.

I did the same thing with the new SEM. I think it's a fantastic synth which sounds beautiful. I couldn't give a flying fvck if it doesn't sound as good as the original (which, again, is totally predictable anyway). I like the synth as it is.

With that said, the advantage of self-repair on the older synths is important and definitely something to consider before making a decision. If I had an original model I don't think I would replace it with a re-issue even if they do turn out to sound almost identical (at least, not without knowing more about what all's inside the re-issue).
Words of wisdom from MV, as usual. I agree completely.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #49
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matia's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I played the new MS20 today and I've got one to use that's a korg35 filter one. I think the new one was definitely a joy to play and sounded like an ms20. The things I thought were different were the low mids, which just didn't have AS much weight as the original and the high end which I found to be a lot brighter. Will I be getting one, absolutely. Will I beat the living fcuk out of it live, of course. Did it put a massive smile on my face playing a re-issued ms20, which honestly is what most of us wanted and showed which of the majors had the balls to do it and do it right ... Without a doubt. For six bill wtf else do you want.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #50
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Stevism's Avatar
 
6 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Nice blend would be an option to turn the stabilization off


Better to have than not have though,
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #51
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maisonvague's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by volumetrik ➑️
We will never hear a mint original 1978 MS-20 to do a comparison with the reissue MS-20, how do electronic parts change over 35 year span? what kind of sonic changes do they introduce to the sound? I heard all kinds of things that happen to them.
I'm sure aging components contribute to an instrument's mojo but I don't have the technical knowledge to be able to explain (or refute) that. And since it's currently impossible to travel back in time and acquire a new vintage MS-20 to compare with the re-issue, I would have to say that recordings made back in the day are the best we have to go on. But even then there are factors such as preamps, processing, etc which would make it difficult to determine just how an MS-20 sounded back then new out of the box.

How one records a synth plays an important role. I never fully appreciated my Little Phatty until I tried recording it through a UA Solo 610 preamp. The mojo of the LP had been there all along: I just needed to pair it up with the right recording tools to get the sound I was after.

For me new synths are a bit like new blue jeans: they are stiff and uncomfortable and don't look cool until they've been washed a few times and start to fade. In the meantime you can impart some vintage mojo into these newer analogs by using choice preamps, analog FX and other quality outboard.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #52
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Optical Lens's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Doesn't the mini use the same components? Just that it's newer?

Do components age like wine then And if it should be compared, it should be compared to a new "vintage" MS-20, which is impossible.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #53
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flat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarlywarly ➑️
I love it when the analogue purists wet themselves over DCOs. It's well funny.


When ever I hear the quote 'Analogue purists', this Blackadder pic always come to mind lol



Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #54
Lives for gear
 
maisonvague's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by matia ➑️
I played the new MS20 today and I've got one to use that's a korg35 filter one. I think the new one was definitely a joy to play and sounded like an ms20. The things I thought were different were the low mids, which just didn't have AS much weight as the original and the high end which I found to be a lot brighter. Will I be getting one, absolutely. Will I beat the living fcuk out of it live, of course. Did it put a massive smile on my face playing a re-issued ms20, which honestly is what most of us wanted and showed which of the majors had the balls to do it and do it right ... Without a doubt. For six bill wtf else do you want.
Hey, thanks for the report. Sounds promising! This baby is currently on the top of my Must Have List. I'd been saving up for an Oberheim TVS re-issue but it's taking so long the money has begun to disappear. In fact, I just blew a chunk of it on an SH-2!

Tom -- I had ca$h with your name on it! Dude!
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #55
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kraku's Avatar
Why do people always bring up the SMT components of new analog synths? You want to fix the synth yourself? People don't complain about Korg using SMT on any of their digital synths so why complain with this one either?
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #56
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jachin boaz ➑️
why are the early moogs so highly valued >? tuning Instability really.
Its why so many ' nu analogues' can sound ****e.They dont drift which is why our ears often hear them as a bit sterile.
And that's why almost every VA plugin out there has added slop/drift/whatever feature to oscillators and so they all sound like Moog Modular and Juno 60 and Synthex sound like a crap.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #57
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Septik's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey M ➑️
It is like the original, so it isn't, except for the one 1V/Oct input for the VCOs. You can check the specs from Korg: Monophonic Analog Synthesizer | Korg MS-20 Mini
V/Oct?? This is seriously a major selling point OVER the original.. I pre-ordered yesterday at $600, that price is disgustingly low. The demos sound good so far. The filter sounds just like the original, and the tone is great as well. Looks like korg really made a winner with this one.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #58
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
So is this definitely a digitally tuned pair of oscillators? Does this mean we can't tune or detune them ourselves? What about setting up a nice, slightly detuned "beating" sound? The monotribe's osc isn't even tuneable lol.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #59
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jbuonacc's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
most SMT components aren't actually that hard to replace if needed. caps and resistors are a breeze for anyone that's done it a few times. even multi-pin chips are simple to someone that knows what they're doing. complex stuff like ball-grid arrays are another story, which require special tools and a good amount of experience.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #60
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volumetrik's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
From another forum:

Quote:

re. "now digitally stabilized"

I had a feeling they would do this based on my analysis of the Monotron Duo schematics.

To see how this is likely implemented, take a look at what the Duo does:

http://www.korg-datastorage.jp/Manua...%20DUO_sch.pdf

1. The control voltage from the ribbon "keyboard" and the vco knob get routed through a 16-bit MCU microcontroller:

MSP430

2. VCO1 sends a signal back to this MCU which analyzes the frequency and a) corrects excessive pitch drifting do to oscillator-circuit instabilities and b) if enabled, quantizes the notes to the Monotron Duo's scales.


This is a logical way of saving money during the factory calibration process and by not having to carefully spec temperature-coefficient resitors (tempco's) and other components that can cause excessive oscillator drift.

I'm sure this isn't any kind of hard quantization and perhaps they allow some drifting that's consistent with the original MS-20. Or maybe the circuit can't correct the pitch perfectly and you still get the equivalent drift.
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