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New Korg MS-20 Mini
Old 12th February 2014
  #3811
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graphs's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Just wanted to chime in here because somebody from Korg will probably/hopefully see it.

I love all the new products but Korg seriously needs to take a look at their ability to meet demand. I still have not been able to purchase an MS-20 mini or any of the Volcas in the biggest city in Canada. And I've wanted to since day one of them being announced! I know that some are floating around but it would be pure chance if you happened to see ONE (1) unit in a store and have the time and cash to purchase on the spot, otherwise it would be gone if you went back later. I don't want to order one on the internet. I want to support my local retailers.

I understand the importance of creating demand by way of limited supply but this is just ridiculous. What has it been, like a year since they announced the new MS-20? At least 8 or more months anyway. Any company that truly wanted to address a manufacture backlog in that time could do so. Considering there are units available in the US, UK and EU, I am beginning to wonder if there isn't a bias against the market I live in. Does Korg hate Canada?

Anyway, at this point I'm pretty much through waiting and searching. The excitement wore off long ago and has since been replaced by a touch of resentment and an actual desire to NOT purchase a Korg product. All that new stuff from NAMM? Wanted to get excited but all I actually saw was another god knows how many months of waiting and disappointment.

Thanks for reading my rant, now let's see those thumbs down start rolling in...
Old 12th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3812
Deleted 7a792f4
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by graphs ➡️
Thanks for reading my rant, now let's see those thumbs down start rolling in...
That's not a good experience- hard not to be miffed with Korg (or Canadian distributors- or both or whoever is responsible for that debacle)

but what is really sad is to be put off a wonderful instrument that could really work out for you.

Shame on them- yes- but just because something is difficult to obtain does not mean it isn't worthwhile- does it?

I had to wait (just to get a refurb MS-20mini)- here in the states, but I am very pleased with it. Ebay and some smaller retailers here in the States out to be able to help you out (I am guessing by the sheer amount I have seen for sale down here). Are those sources not an option?
Old 12th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3813
Moderator
 
golden beers's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
no trouble here in the UK. at least for myself anyway.

don't want to rub any noses in it.. but well..

i got 2 of em.

both next day free delivery
Old 12th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3814
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers ➡️
take a photo of your patch- showing the whole synth - and we'll tell you where you're going wrong
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Old 12th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3815
Moderator
 
golden beers's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
@Trunks,

youre not going to hear much of an effect from that as you're only moving the low pass.
edit: your low pass cutoff is set quite high, the S&H will only move it from that point and up so your problem could just be that you're not noticing the filter move as it may all sound pretty much like open filter, so step 1 would be move that filter cutoff down to close to zero

did you only want the low pass moving? thought in the video he had the oscs moving also.

so if this is the case, turn up total in the frequency modulation section (located below the VCO mixer section)

also you could try adjusting the waveform of the modulation generator. you may have the pulse a little narrow for the S&H so just try moving that knob anticlockwise a millimetre or two, which may help the S&H circuit read it as a clock signal
Old 12th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3816
Lives for gear
 
Psychlist1972's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by graphs ➡️
Just wanted to chime in here because somebody from Korg will probably/hopefully see it.

I love all the new products but Korg seriously needs to take a look at their ability to meet demand. I still have not been able to purchase an MS-20 mini or any of the Volcas in the biggest city in Canada. And I've wanted to since day one of them being announced! I know that some are floating around but it would be pure chance if you happened to see ONE (1) unit in a store and have the time and cash to purchase on the spot, otherwise it would be gone if you went back later. I don't want to order one on the internet. I want to support my local retailers.

I understand the importance of creating demand by way of limited supply but this is just ridiculous. What has it been, like a year since they announced the new MS-20? At least 8 or more months anyway. Any company that truly wanted to address a manufacture backlog in that time could do so. Considering there are units available in the US, UK and EU, I am beginning to wonder if there isn't a bias against the market I live in. Does Korg hate Canada?

Anyway, at this point I'm pretty much through waiting and searching. The excitement wore off long ago and has since been replaced by a touch of resentment and an actual desire to NOT purchase a Korg product. All that new stuff from NAMM? Wanted to get excited but all I actually saw was another god knows how many months of waiting and disappointment.

Thanks for reading my rant, now let's see those thumbs down start rolling in...
It's not necessarily about demand gen. It could be that they simply underestimated demand.

When you sign up with a manufacturing house, you agree to a production rate. The house has a certain capacity (and they do lots of other products as well) so you agree that you'll pay them $x if they produce and ship X units per month.

Then, in the case of something like the MS-20, those completed units (or semi-completed units) likely need to be shipped to another place for calibration (that may be Korg itself, or a third-party). That's a manual process, and again, you've agreed to and paid for a certain rate. To increase that rate, you would probably need to add another site.

Both of these end up resulting in a specific production rate based on estimates you came up with likely a year before consumers saw the product on the market. If you think about where Korg was at that time, they had no idea if the MS-20 mini would turn out to be a flop or a huge success. So they had to guess.

Of course, they could spin up extra capacity. But that takes significant time (if not accounted for in advance), and almost certainly results in a higher cost as you negotiate the new rates, and potentially deal with second-tier manufacturers who may have different defect rates. The price of the product would probably need to go up as a result, and that will affect demand.

In the end, as a company, they need to decide whether or not they want to be stuck sitting on a huge inventory of a flopped product, or if they want to just be backordered. The backorder approach is almost always the right approach for a product with a potentially limited lifetime (who knows what other companies will produce in the next year, or what Korg has next? Volcas essentially killed the Monotribe market, for example)
Old 12th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3817
Lives for gear
 
aleyas's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers ➡️
don't want to rub any noses in it.. but well..

i got 2 of em.

both next day free delivery
Do you do any patching between the two of them? Hows that working? Been curious about the possibilities..
Old 12th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3818
Moderator
 
golden beers's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleyas ➡️
Do you do any patching between the two of them? Hows that working? Been curious about the possibilities..
i don't have them together in the same place.

but to be honest, i don't think it would be that awesome to do that. simply because there's no VCO, or filter outputs, or any signal checkpoints, or much in terms of signal multipliers.

so even though the ms20 has lots of patch points, it's pretty much hardwired to be self-contained IMO
Old 12th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3819
Lives for gear
 
Psychlist1972's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers ➡️
i don't have them together in the same place.

but to be honest, i don't think it would be that awesome to do that. simply because there's no VCO, or filter outputs, or any signal checkpoints, or much in terms of signal multipliers.

so even thought the ms20 has lots of patch points, it's pretty much hardwired to be self-contained IMO
FWIW, some of the mods out there are for things like VCO outputs. Might open up some possibilities if you're *really* interested in doing it

Pete
Old 12th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3820
Moderator
 
golden beers's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 ➡️
FWIW, some of the mods out there are for things like VCO outputs. Might open up some possibilities if you're *really* interested in doing it

Pete
yea i saw your mods. good stuff!. as far as multiple minis hooked up together is concerned, it doesn't really interest me. multiple original MS20s would be slightly more interesting to me.
Old 13th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3821
Gear Maniac
 
dexfx69's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by graphs ➡️
I love all the new products but Korg seriously needs to take a look at their ability to meet demand. I still have not been able to purchase an MS-20 mini or any of the Volcas in the biggest city in Canada.
Me too. Korg Canada does not seem to care much, or are too shy to confront the issue publicly, for any number of reasons. After numerous posts over the past year by numerous Canadians on the Korg Canada facebook page to discuss the issue with Korg Canada, they continue to dodge or mostly ignore the concerns/supply issues, again for who knows what reason.

I ended up ordering mine from the US, and will continue to do so until Korg Canada comes to the plate on the issue.
Old 13th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3822
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers ➡️
@Trunks,

youre not going to hear much of an effect from that as you're only moving the low pass.
edit: your low pass cutoff is set quite high, the S&H will only move it from that point and up so your problem could just be that you're not noticing the filter move as it may all sound pretty much like open filter, so step 1 would be move that filter cutoff down to close to zero
If I move the lowpass cutoff lower than 4 the lying tone is gone and all I can hear is quiet clicking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers ➡️
did you only want the low pass moving? thought in the video he had the oscs moving also.

so if this is the case, turn up total in the frequency modulation section (located below the VCO mixer section)
I only want the low pass to move to get the sound as shown on the video at 5:30.

Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers ➡️
also you could try adjusting the waveform of the modulation generator. you may have the pulse a little narrow for the S&H so just try moving that knob anticlockwise a millimetre or two, which may help the S&H circuit read it as a clock signal
As said before I'd like to create that specific sound from the video. At 5:20 the guy says put the wave form all the way to the right..
Old 13th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3823
Moderator
 
golden beers's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunks ➡️
If I move the lowpass cutoff lower than 4 the lying tone is gone and all I can hear is quiet clicking.


I only want the low pass to move to get the sound as shown on the video at 5:30.



As said before I'd like to create that specific sound from the video. At 5:20 the guy says put the wave form all the way to the right..
did you try moving the lfo shape? cause all it is doing is giving a pulse to the clock circuit, you'll get the same sound regardless
Old 13th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3824
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers ➡️
did you try moving the lfo shape? cause all it is doing is giving a pulse to the clock circuit, you'll get the same sound regardless
Yes I tried that with no success. I also tried now to replicate the frequency modulation and it just does not sound like on the video because the tone is lying and the effect is coming on top of hat.. I hope you understand what I am trying to say.
Old 13th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3825
Moderator
 
golden beers's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunks ➡️
If I move the lowpass cutoff lower than 4 the lying tone is gone and all I can hear is quiet clicking.


I only want the low pass to move to get the sound as shown on the video at 5:30.



As said before I'd like to create that specific sound from the video. At 5:20 the guy says put the wave form all the way to the right..
pretty sure it's your filter position and the amount you're moving the filter. your total is at maximum, dial that back to around 4 and try again. this will move the filter up from its base position less and so wont go so high as to be constantly fully open.

EDIT: by total i mean the MG/T.EXT knob - directly below the peak knob of the low pass filter
Old 13th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3826
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers ➡️
pretty sure it's your filter position and the amount you're moving the filter. your total is at maximum, dial that back to around 4 and try again. this will move the filter up from its base position less and so wont go so high as to be constantly fully open.

EDIT: by total i mean the MG/T.EXT knob - directly below the peak knob of the low pass filter
I played around with both of these knobs for a while now and the effect juts won't happen seriously. Sometimes it jumps loud and it sounds like the effect would start but it just does not

Btw is there a way to sync the frequency via usb to ableton live?
Old 13th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3827
Lives for gear
 
MORDICUS's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by graphs ➡️
Just wanted to chime in here because somebody from Korg will probably/hopefully see it.

I love all the new products but Korg seriously needs to take a look at their ability to meet demand. I still have not been able to purchase an MS-20 mini or any of the Volcas in the biggest city in Canada. And I've wanted to since day one of them being announced! I know that some are floating around but it would be pure chance if you happened to see ONE (1) unit in a store and have the time and cash to purchase on the spot, otherwise it would be gone if you went back later. I don't want to order one on the internet. I want to support my local retailers.

I understand the importance of creating demand by way of limited supply but this is just ridiculous. What has it been, like a year since they announced the new MS-20? At least 8 or more months anyway. Any company that truly wanted to address a manufacture backlog in that time could do so. Considering there are units available in the US, UK and EU, I am beginning to wonder if there isn't a bias against the market I live in. Does Korg hate Canada?

Anyway, at this point I'm pretty much through waiting and searching. The excitement wore off long ago and has since been replaced by a touch of resentment and an actual desire to NOT purchase a Korg product. All that new stuff from NAMM? Wanted to get excited but all I actually saw was another god knows how many months of waiting and disappointment.

Thanks for reading my rant, now let's see those thumbs down start rolling in...
Hi graphs ... isn t it all u have to do to buy one MS 20mini is to make a special order with STEVE S ??? They can get it but don t have them in stock ... unless u don t buy from them ???? Well i guess we re lucky here in Paris as all the major shops have it in stock ....


PEACE


MORDICUS
Old 13th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3828
Moderator
 
golden beers's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
We'll then, apart from your filter position and the amount, you should be getting that effect.
Just want to check that you're triggering from the ms20mini's own keyboard and not through midi/USB?

Next step is take all the patch leads out, and use different leads, could be a bad connection.

Next step would be to process the pink noise though the ESP, so instead of patching it into sh input, patch the noise into the input of the ESP and turn that up, then take the EDIT: AMP out from that into the sh input. Could be that your pink noise is low in level, this will help that because you can increase or decrease the signal level.

Also check that your pink noise is outputting, so scrap that patch an just patch pink noise into external signal in on the TOP row of inputs (not the ESP at the bottom)
Do this to check that you are getting noise from the generator. Can you hear the noise?
Old 13th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3829
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers ➡️
We'll then, apart from your filter position and the amount, you should be getting that effect.
Just want to check that you're triggering from the ms20mini's own keyboard and not through midi/USB?
I play a note on the keyboard and the effect does not happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers ➡️
Next step is take all the patch leads out, and use different leads, could be a bad connection.
Did that but nothing changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers ➡️
Next step would be to process the pink noise though the ESP, so instead of patching it into sh input, patch the noise into the input of the ESP and turn that up, then take the EDIT: AMP out from that into the sh input. Could be that your pink noise is low in level, this will help that because you can increase or decrease the signal level.

Also check that your pink noise is outputting, so scrap that patch an just patch pink noise into external signal in on the TOP row of inputs (not the ESP at the bottom)
Do this to check that you are getting noise from the generator. Can you hear the noise?
Yes I checked the pink noise generator and there is a pink noise signal.
I also plugged into the ESP and that worked. I finally got the effect as shown on the video. But only if I turn she Signal Level at 8 and the Peak LED lights up.
Is that normal?
Old 13th February 2014
  #3830
Moderator
 
golden beers's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
@Trunks

glad you hear you finally got the effect you're after using the ESP.

dont worry about the peak light


I couldn't tell you 100% if your mini is 'normal' or not. because that patch in question is a very rough guide and you would have to make only small adjustments for it to not sound how you want it. also mini's would vary slightly compared to one another i imagine. yours could be working perfectly from the perspective of being within tolerance/accuracy level of factory calibration.

what i would guess is that your pink noise output is a little lower than mine (or that your SH circuit is a little lower gain) because i tried that patch and it worked fine for me without the ESP.

EDIT: i just checked my peak light which comes on at around 6 with pink noise feeding it. which indicates that my pink noise output is indeed coming out at a higher level than yours.

So there's evidence there that your pink noise is low level, and this is the reason you had trouble with that patch
Old 13th February 2014
  #3831
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Further I was wondering if it is possible to sync the Modulation Frequency via USB or MIDI?
And is there a function that the Envelope is also triggered when holding down a key and pressing another? Because if I use a sound with Attack and play "overlapped" the next note comes with without Attack what is annoying.
Old 13th February 2014
  #3832
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Further I was wondering if it is possible to sync the Modulation Frequency via USB or MIDI?
And is there a function that the Envelope is also triggered when holding down a key and pressing another? Because if I use a sound with Attack and play "overlapped" the next note comes with without Attack what is annoying.
Old 13th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3833
Moderator
 
golden beers's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
no sync via usb its midi note only. you have to use a control voltage from another device if you want LFO style sync or anything like that. ps check the edit out on my last reply
Old 13th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3834
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers ➡️
no sync via usb its midi note only. you have to use a control voltage from another device if you want LFO style sync or anything like that. ps check the edit out on my last reply
Is it possible to sync the lfo with the volca keys sync out and sync the volca to a midi clock?
Do you have any idea for the keyboard envelope triggering I mentioned above?
Old 13th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3835
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunks ➡️
Further I was wondering if it is possible to sync the Modulation Frequency via USB or MIDI?
And is there a function that the Envelope is also triggered when holding down a key and pressing another? Because if I use a sound with Attack and play "overlapped" the next note comes with without Attack what is annoying.
MS-20 does not offer multi-triggering for the envelopes, so if you play legato without lifting the previous key, the envelopes will just continue their previous trajectory. there is no way around this as far as i know... i just try to use it as a tool for developing my articulation technique.
Old 13th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3836
Moderator
 
golden beers's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunks ➡️
Is it possible to sync the lfo with the volca keys sync out and sync the volca to a midi clock?
Do you have any idea for the keyboard envelope triggering I mentioned above?
no what you would have to do is have something like a kenton box spitting out LFO as CV. you would then patch that in. for example into the lowpass cut off patch point.

Re triggering EG: the triggering happens on 'gate close'. you usually close the 'gate' with a key press or midi note on.

if you play the next key before releasing the last, the gate doesn't 'open' it remains continually 'closed' so no trigger pulse is sent. to get around this, release the key before the next note. you can program midi notes that end milliseconds before the next note starts, so a very small gap between notes is enough to open the gate and retrigger on the next note.
Old 14th February 2014
  #3837
Gear Maniac
 
Raleigh's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Just wanted to chime in here because somebody from Korg will probably/hopefully see it.

I love all the new products but Korg seriously needs to take a look at their ability to meet demand. I still have not been able to purchase an MS-20 mini or any of the Volcas in the biggest city in Canada. And I've wanted to since day one of them being announced! I know that some are floating around but it would be pure chance if you happened to see ONE (1) unit in a store and have the time and cash to purchase on the spot, otherwise it would be gone if you went back later. I don't want to order one on the internet. I want to support my local retailers.

I understand the importance of creating demand by way of limited supply but this is just ridiculous. What has it been, like a year since they announced the new MS-20? At least 8 or more months anyway. Any company that truly wanted to address a manufacture backlog in that time could do so. Considering there are units available in the US, UK and EU, I am beginning to wonder if there isn't a bias against the market I live in. Does Korg hate Canada?

Anyway, at this point I'm pretty much through waiting and searching. The excitement wore off long ago and has since been replaced by a touch of resentment and an actual desire to NOT purchase a Korg product. All that new stuff from NAMM? Wanted to get excited but all I actually saw was another god knows how many months of waiting and disappointment.

Thanks for reading my rant, now let's see those thumbs down start rolling in...
I'm in Florida, and ordered my MS-20 Mini locally from the biggest music shop in the area. Even so, It still took almost two months before I actually had the thing in hand. However I placed my order on the 12th of December, so not sure if the holidays had anything to due with the slow arrival or not.
Old 14th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3838
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers ➡️
no what you would have to do is have something like a kenton box spitting out LFO as CV. you would then patch that in. for example into the lowpass cut off patch point.

Re triggering EG: the triggering happens on 'gate close'. you usually close the 'gate' with a key press or midi note on.

if you play the next key before releasing the last, the gate doesn't 'open' it remains continually 'closed' so no trigger pulse is sent. to get around this, release the key before the next note. you can program midi notes that end milliseconds before the next note starts, so a very small gap between notes is enough to open the gate and retrigger on the next note.
I tried that but the Attack of the next note is not the same as on the first note if the gap between the two notes is small.

Is the low output of my pink noise a factory mistake? Are there any other thinks I should controll if they are working right? Maybe the output of the white noise? I am a bit scared because I bought mine refubished and I remember once I touched the patch cables and it sounded like one of the patch inputs had a bad connection. And now the low pink noise thing does not make it feel better..
Old 14th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3839
Moderator
 
golden beers's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunks ➡️
I tried that but the Attack of the next note is not the same as on the first note if the gap between the two notes is small.

Is the low output of my pink noise a factory mistake? Are there any other thinks I should controll if they are working right? Maybe the output of the white noise? I am a bit scared because I bought mine refubished and I remember once I touched the patch cables and it sounded like one of the patch inputs had a bad connection. And now the low pink noise thing does not make it feel better..
yes, you have to get the gap between notes the right length.

i too would not be feeling great about the pink noise output. could just be a gain trimmer inside - needs to be turned up.

you could put your white noise into the ESP input and tell me what number you turn the level to to make the peak light come on.?
like you did with the pink, ie you said it comes on at 8.
do the same with white and i can check mine, see if its the same.
Old 14th February 2014 | Show parent
  #3840
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers ➡️
yes, you have to get the gap between notes the right length.

i too would not be feeling great about the pink noise output. could just be a gain trimmer inside - needs to be turned up.

you could put your white noise into the ESP input and tell me what number you turn the level to to make the peak light come on.?
like you did with the pink, ie you said it comes on at 8.
do the same with white and i can check mine, see if its the same.
My white noise starts peaking in the ESP at 8.

Are there any other things or patches that I could recreate in order to check all other functions?
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