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New Korg MS-20 Mini
Old 17th August 2013
  #3361
Gear Nut
 
Swook's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
My ARP has nearly a dozen trim pots. Even with my multitester, tuner, and scope it's a total PITA to calibrate.
Old 17th August 2013 | Show parent
  #3362
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anigbrowl's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevism ➡️
are the prices for ms-20 mini's plummeting? there's one new on amazon for 430...how?

>$170 shipping, probably. Changing the headline price to move your listing to the top and then making up the discount in absurdly high S+H charges is a common vendor scam.
Old 17th August 2013
  #3363
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Stevism's Avatar
 
6 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
well someone must've bought at as that one is gone now haha
Old 19th August 2013 | Show parent
  #3364
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OrphicTrench's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by coverup0204 ➡️
It's 6300 yen (roughly 60-65 USD) on amazon.co.jp
Thanks for the info. I'm still going for an average bag and some sponge stuffing for protection.
Old 19th August 2013
  #3365
Gear Maniac
 
OrphicTrench's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I have a fast question for you guys. I'm afraid I know the answer but I just want to make sure: how do you sync the frequency of the modulation generator with the tempo? Do you always have to do it manually? Let's say I have a song at 140 bpm and I want the cutoff variation to have a wavelength of 4 beats. Do I have to do the beatmatching just like a dj?
Old 19th August 2013 | Show parent
  #3366
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R3Member's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrphicTrench ➡️
I have a fast question for you guys. I'm afraid I know the answer but I just want to make sure: how do you sync the frequency of the modulation generator with the tempo? Do you always have to do it manually? Let's say I have a song at 140 bpm and I want the cutoff variation to have a wavelength of 4 beats. Do I have to do the beatmatching just like a dj?
Unfortunately, the modulation generator can not be synced due to the nature of real analog LFOs. Synths that have this feature use digital LFOs. One thing you can probably do is feed some kind of click track type sound into EG 1 TRIG IN, then patch its output into the filter. In theory, the click track sound should keep re-triggering EG1, so depending on how you shape the envelope, it can kind of act like an LFO.
Old 20th August 2013
  #3367
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kim olesen's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Just got mine. Build quality was much better than i expected. Specially when compared to the lecacy ms20 controller.

I have a question though: i don't have a mono minijack for the signal out. Will it damage the synth if i use a stereo minijack?
Old 20th August 2013
  #3368
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3Member ➡️
Unfortunately, the modulation generator can not be synced due to the nature of real analog LFOs. Synths that have this feature use digital LFOs. One thing you can probably do is feed some kind of click track type sound into EG 1 TRIG IN, then patch its output into the filter. In theory, the click track sound should keep re-triggering EG1, so depending on how you shape the envelope, it can kind of act like an LFO.
Aren't the sync-able moog LFOs real analog?
Old 20th August 2013 | Show parent
  #3369
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horseface's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kim olesen ➡️
Just got mine. Build quality was much better than i expected. Specially when compared to the lecacy ms20 controller.

I have a question though: i don't have a mono minijack for the signal out. Will it damage the synth if i use a stereo minijack?
I don't think so. Mine has a stereo mini jack plugged in and it seems to work fine with no problems.. Which reminds me, I'd better order a mono jack just because I want to be all 'proper' about it.
Old 20th August 2013 | Show parent
  #3370
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R3Member's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohulahanbass ➡️
Aren't the sync-able moog LFOs real analog?
From what I understand, the Moogs have a feature where you can sync the start time of the LFOs to a gate source (much like I how I explained how to retrigger the envelope to act as an LFO on the MS-20), but not the actual rate of the LFO.

This is taken from a Moog Voyager manual:

Note that the LFO is an analog circuit, and does not automatically sync to MIDI clock; it is restarted much in the manner of oscillator sync, and does not defeat the Rate control.
Old 21st August 2013
  #3371
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3Member ➡️
From what I understand, the Moogs have a feature where you can sync the start time of the LFOs to a gate source (much like I how I explained how to retrigger the envelope to act as an LFO on the MS-20), but not the actual rate of the LFO.

This is taken from a Moog Voyager manual:

Note that the LFO is an analog circuit, and does not automatically sync to MIDI clock; it is restarted much in the manner of oscillator sync, and does not defeat the Rate control.

That's not how my Minituar's LFO works, I assumed its a true analog LFO but could be wrong. If the MS-20 could be beat synced that'd be fantastic. I'm stoked on getting one regardless.

Moog Minituar Manual:

LFO SYNC PHASE RESET
LFO Sync Phase Reset in the Minitaur REV 2 Editor is labeled LFO Phase Reset. This parameter affects the LFO behavior while it is synced to MIDI. If LFO Sync Phase Reset is ON, then the LFO waveform is reset to the start of its cycle on the beginning of every “beat” according to the current MIDI clock settings. Since the LFO rate is set to give one cycle per “beat”, this Phase Reset is usually inaudible, as it lines up with where the start of the cycle should already be. This reset corrects for clock inaccuracies that could otherwise cause the LFO to drift relative to the beat.
NOTE: If you sweep the LFO Rate knob while in MIDI sync, this can cause abrupt and noticeable jumps in the LFO if it is reset mid-cycle. If LFO Sync Phase Reset is OFF, then you can sweep the LFO Rate while in MIDI Sync, however you may find that the LFO cycle drifts relative to the beat.
Old 21st August 2013
  #3372
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
That's not how my Minituar's LFO works, I assumed its a true analog LFO but could be wrong. If the MS-20 could be beat synced that'd be fantastic. I'm stoked on getting one regardless.

Moog Minituar Manual:

LFO SYNC PHASE RESET
LFO Sync Phase Reset in the Minitaur REV 2 Editor is labeled LFO Phase Reset. This parameter affects the LFO behavior while it is synced to MIDI. If LFO Sync Phase Reset is ON, then the LFO waveform is reset to the start of its cycle on the beginning of every “beat” according to the current MIDI clock settings. Since the LFO rate is set to give one cycle per “beat”, this Phase Reset is usually inaudible, as it lines up with where the start of the cycle should already be. This reset corrects for clock inaccuracies that could otherwise cause the LFO to drift relative to the beat.
NOTE: If you sweep the LFO Rate knob while in MIDI sync, this can cause abrupt and noticeable jumps in the LFO if it is reset mid-cycle. If LFO Sync Phase Reset is OFF, then you can sweep the LFO Rate while in MIDI Sync, however you may find that the LFO cycle drifts relative to the beat.
Old 21st August 2013
  #3373
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MarkR's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
the minitaur has digital envelopes apparently, so it probably has a digital LFO too
Old 21st August 2013 | Show parent
  #3374
Gear Addict
 
apropos of noth's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The ESP on the MS-20 is a great way to get beat sync'ed filter effects.
Old 21st August 2013
  #3375
Gear Nut
 
sunny pedaal's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
@markR: don't think it has digital envelops, about the lfo don't know but doubt it too
( in the past the roland sys100m also had resettable Analog lfo's so it's not such a big deal and not a sign it's digital )
if you want to be sure ask on the moog forum , but i'm sure about it.
Old 21st August 2013 | Show parent
  #3376
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
I think it works quite the same as sync on a dual oscillator analogue.
Old 21st August 2013
  #3377
Gear Nut
 
sunny pedaal's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
think so too
Old 21st August 2013
  #3378
Gear Nut
 
sunny pedaal's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
think so too
Old 21st August 2013
  #3379
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny pedaal ➡️
@markR: don't think it has digital envelops, about the lfo don't know but doubt it too
( in the past the roland sys100m also had resettable Analog lfo's so it's not such a big deal and not a sign it's digital )
if you want to be sure ask on the moog forum , but i'm sure about it.
I went to the googles, mark is right.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elect...envelopes.html
Old 21st August 2013 | Show parent
  #3380
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R3Member's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohulahanbass ➡️
That's not how my Minituar's LFO works, I assumed its a true analog LFO but could be wrong. If the MS-20 could be beat synced that'd be fantastic. I'm stoked on getting one regardless.

Moog Minituar Manual:

LFO SYNC PHASE RESET
LFO Sync Phase Reset in the Minitaur REV 2 Editor is labeled LFO Phase Reset. This parameter affects the LFO behavior while it is synced to MIDI. If LFO Sync Phase Reset is ON, then the LFO waveform is reset to the start of its cycle on the beginning of every “beat” according to the current MIDI clock settings. Since the LFO rate is set to give one cycle per “beat”, this Phase Reset is usually inaudible, as it lines up with where the start of the cycle should already be. This reset corrects for clock inaccuracies that could otherwise cause the LFO to drift relative to the beat.
NOTE: If you sweep the LFO Rate knob while in MIDI sync, this can cause abrupt and noticeable jumps in the LFO if it is reset mid-cycle. If LFO Sync Phase Reset is OFF, then you can sweep the LFO Rate while in MIDI Sync, however you may find that the LFO cycle drifts relative to the beat.
This is exactly what I was describing earlier and how the Moog Voyager also operates. The "Sync Phase" is basically just a means of sending a gate trigger to restart the LFO. The gate source is coming from the MIDI clock beat, but again, it's not actually syncing the rate, it's only switching the LFO off and then back on again so it restarts its cycle. The rate operates independently.

I think the confusion here is that people are misunderstanding the difference between resetting the LFO cycle and actually syncing the Rate of the LFO. When the LFO cycle is reset, it's basically acting like a broken record that keeps repeating itself. The tempo of the song might be something like 120, but the speed in which the broken record keeps skipping and repeating can be entirely different.

An analog LFO rate can't be synced if it is analog since it naturally produces it's own frequency, but the timing in which it begins that cycle can be reset much like turning off and on a series of blinking Christmas lights.
Old 21st August 2013 | Show parent
  #3381
Gear Nut
 
sunny pedaal's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohulahanbass ➡️
I went to the googles, mark is right.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elect...envelopes.html
i followed the link to another gearslutz topic.
oke might be, someone said...
will ask straight away on the moog forum...

http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=20005
Old 21st August 2013
  #3382
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MarkR's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
People that have worked for Moog have said that they're digital, but I imagine Moog will never say it themselves. But as someone said on that other thread Ohulahanbass found, any LFO that can be MIDI synced is digital.
Old 21st August 2013
  #3383
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkR ➡️
People that have worked for Moog have said that they're digital, but I imagine Moog will never say it themselves. But as someone said on that other thread Ohulahanbass found, any LFO that can be MIDI synced is digital.
ControlVoltage is Amos from Moog (in most the moog demos if I'm not mistaken), so if moog says subPhatty and Minituar are software envelopes/LFOs than they are. Probably enough of a derail though.

I guess the MS-20 will be my first truly all analog modulated synth!
Old 21st August 2013
  #3384
Gear Nut
 
sunny pedaal's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
if that's the man , then so it'll be, i agree.
however let's see what moog says...always interesting
it's no shame,it's 2013, just curious
Old 21st August 2013
  #3385
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goldphinga's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
the minitaur envelopes are digital. 100%.
Old 21st August 2013
  #3386
Gear Maniac
 
OrphicTrench's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I'm definitely gonna try the ESP.
Old 21st August 2013
  #3387
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medearis's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I'm about to make the jump and buy one of these but I'm curious if anyone has had difficulty sequencing one from an MPC. I know that it's a simple operation, just making sure there hasn't been any headaches or hang-ups for what ever reason.

Appreciate it.
Old 21st August 2013
  #3388
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medearis's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I'm about to make the jump and buy one of these but I'm curious if anyone has had difficulty sequencing one from an MPC. I know that it's a simple operation, just making sure there hasn't been any headaches or hang-ups for what ever reason.

Appreciate it.
Old 21st August 2013 | Show parent
  #3389
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3Member ➡️
This is exactly what I was describing earlier and how the Moog Voyager also operates. The "Sync Phase" is basically just a means of sending a gate trigger to restart the LFO. The gate source is coming from the MIDI clock beat, but again, it's not actually syncing the rate, it's only switching the LFO off and then back on again so it restarts its cycle. The rate operates independently.

I think the confusion here is that people are misunderstanding the difference between resetting the LFO cycle and actually syncing the Rate of the LFO. When the LFO cycle is reset, it's basically acting like a broken record that keeps repeating itself. The tempo of the song might be something like 120, but the speed in which the broken record keeps skipping and repeating can be entirely different.

An analog LFO rate can't be synced if it is analog since it naturally produces it's own frequency, but the timing in which it begins that cycle can be reset much like turning off and on a series of blinking Christmas lights.
If you can get an analogue oscillator stable at 120Hz you can also get it stable oscillator at 2Hz, which is equal to 120BPM. You might want to sync it as well to make sure it stays on beat as 2Hz might turn out to be 1.993443Hz and 120BPM might be 121.1BPM in reality, but you will not hear extreme skipping.
Old 21st August 2013 | Show parent
  #3390
Lives for gear
 
R3Member's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by medearis ➡️
I'm about to make the jump and buy one of these but I'm curious if anyone has had difficulty sequencing one from an MPC. I know that it's a simple operation, just making sure there hasn't been any headaches or hang-ups for what ever reason.

Appreciate it.
One thing to know is that the MS-20 is permanently stuck in Legato mode with the highest note taking priority, so sequencing notes back to back can get screwed up if you are using the envelope to shape the sound. I've tried creating arpeggiated bass notes from an external sequencer and had to manually add a small gap after each note so the envelope would retrigger.
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