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DSI Prophet 12
Old 25th July 2013
  #1741
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
The shipment finally arrived at the local dealer so I went in to have a listen. My unit is now sitting in its box awaiting to be set up (haven't had time yet).

In short I think it sounds awesome. While a music store isn't the best place to audition a synth (had an avid bass player testing stuff 10m away etc.), it was still very clear that the P12 is a very versatile synth that will fit right in besides my P08. I had read the manual before testing so I did some extensive tweaking and IMHO the P12 can sound quite warm and vintagey with the right settings (and using some slop on the oscs). But it also covers so much other interesting ground (as you have heard in the demos). I think mine will suit me very well as a work-horse in my little studio.

More thoughts as I get some time to play it in a quiet environment.
Old 25th July 2013
  #1742
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
That's awesome! Mine should arrive tomorrow. Will report in when I have the opportunity to test drive it fully. Very excited! It will sit next to my PEK and Tempest and Tetra.
Old 25th July 2013
  #1743
Lives for gear
 
Persemone's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
P'12 ordered. It seems to be a real heavyweight of a synth, and I personally love the mix of digital power with analogue toneshaping; liked the Evolver in the same way. Alongside the Solaris, it seems to be at the head of the 'new school' pack of aspirational synths for the 2010's.

I figure it as a 'slightly-more-fixed-architecture' version of the forward looking digi/ana Eurorack ethos, a real west-coast feel, and frankly I do get bored of the same old analogue sounds, if I'm honest. I've always been slightly underwhelmed by straight-up subtractive, and one of my attractions to plugins was that plugins were often where the oddities of synthesis grew wings [Razor, Massive, Prizm, Aalto, Reaktor etc]. I want sonic exploration, I want to head off into droney journeys or bit crushed badness. I don't want blinky blinky bloop, I want rarararaRARARARArarararah kill-the-speakers-where-did-that-come-from noisiness.... and this synth looks to be able to take me there. Slop and crush set to warp speed, Cap'n....
Old 26th July 2013 | Show parent
  #1744
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF ➑️
That's awesome! Mine should arrive tomorrow. Will report in when I have the opportunity to test drive it fully. Very excited! It will sit next to my PEK and Tempest and Tetra.
May not have all the waves of the pek, but the sound is so much clearer and high end. You're gonna love it
Old 31st July 2013 | Show parent
  #1745
Lives for gear
 
ttown23's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Drove up to San Francisco this past weekend and hung with INHALT and got my P12

This is the ultimate four horsemen of the apocalypse synth.... I mean, holy ****.... AMAZING!!!!



All I can say is, thank you INHALT and Dave!!!!
Old 31st July 2013
  #1746
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
A few days on: Great synth - absolutely awesome. A total joy to program and oh so very rewarding. Highly recommended!

But....

Just a word of caution: It's a bit buggy. Besides some minor niggles it does have an annoying problem for studio use: It currently does not react to velocity information via MIDI (MIDI in / USB). It uses the velocity of the last played note on the keyboard. (Ie. if you record a sequence with varying velocity and end on a soft note, all subsequent notes sent to the P12 will be played back softly).

It has been acknowledged as a bug and is on the fix list, but there has been no word on a time frame despite the question being raised on the official forum.

I have a pretty high tolerance for bugs as I work with software development, but how this wasn't caught in testing is astonishing. It is also a bit weird that they aren't more forthcoming about it. An apology and some info on when this will be fixed would have been nice for all the early adopters who now can't sequence things properly.

Granted, most parts can be played live and in emergencies time shifted, but still.
Anyway, thought it deserved some attention here and if someone is intending it for heavily sequenced studio use they deserve to know that this problem exists.
Old 31st July 2013
  #1747
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Just route the velocity to the ribbons
Old 31st July 2013 | Show parent
  #1748
Lives for gear
 
Miiko's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxis ➑️
Anyway, thought it deserved some attention here and if someone is intending it for heavily sequenced studio use they deserve to know that this problem exists.
$3000 and it doesn't handle velocity from midi input properly? Yikes...
Old 1st August 2013 | Show parent
  #1749
Lives for gear
 
FRANZ KAFKA's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxis ➑️
The shipment finally arrived at the local dealer.
Old 1st August 2013 | Show parent
  #1750
Pym
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
It's just a small bug, it'll get fixed shortly

The instrument all in all is pretty bug free, there are just a couple small things to clean up. For the complexity, not too bad =)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrok ➑️
$3000 and it doesn't handle velocity from midi input properly? Yikes...
Old 1st August 2013 | Show parent
  #1751
Lives for gear
 
Miiko's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pym ➑️
It's just a small bug, it'll get fixed shortly

The instrument all in all is pretty bug free, there are just a couple small things to clean up. For the complexity, not too bad =)
Well that's good to hear.. the other guy's statement of "it's a bit buggy" and the description of the velocity problem just had me worried. For such an expensive machine I would expect these kinds of problems to be worked out before shipment.
Old 2nd August 2013 | Show parent
  #1752
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrok ➑️
Well that's good to hear.. the other guy's statement of "it's a bit buggy" and the description of the velocity problem just had me worried. For such an expensive machine I would expect these kinds of problems to be worked out before shipment.
The PEK has bugs (sequencers don't work without triggering, except in combo mode , etc), the tempest has(had?) bugs. I dunno the p12 seems great, but I'm going to wait until it's as specified.

Honestly, lack of velocity via MIDI is a big deal, at least to me. I'll often use pads instead of keys and more than that, playing back a sequence you played live would be completely buggered, no? Does velocity mapped to different modulations just get ignored?
Old 2nd August 2013 | Show parent
  #1753
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pym ➑️
It's just a small bug, it'll get fixed shortly

The instrument all in all is pretty bug free, there are just a couple small things to clean up. For the complexity, not too bad =)
No doubt the bug itself is "small", but it has severe impact. If a bug as serious as this got through beta testing then I (as an owner and a software dev professional ) wonder what other bugs are still undetected.
I mean, no midi velocity response? "Small" bug? Come on....
Old 3rd August 2013
  #1754
Registered User
 
🎧 5 years
You all should build your own Prophet 12s and avoid these hassles then! Nothing says quality control to your standards more than your own hands
Old 3rd August 2013
  #1755
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrok;
For such an expensive machine I would expect these kinds of problems to be worked out before shipment.
Guess you didn't follow the Tempest threads much
Old 4th August 2013 | Show parent
  #1756
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallu ➑️
You all should build your own Prophet 12s and avoid these hassles then! Nothing says quality control to your standards more than your own hands
You seem to imply that we should just accept poor quality control?

Frankly, this is a major bug and DSI is handling it very poorly. No estimated date for a fix, and no apology or courteous reply whatsoever. Just Pym's "It's a bug, I'll fix it." and an attitude along the lines of "I'll do it when I get the time/want to, I have so much else to do. Now, please get off my back".

Pretty poor customer relations going on there in my not so humble opinion.
Old 4th August 2013 | Show parent
  #1757
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubnspace ➑️
Guess you didn't follow the Tempest threads much
I for one honestly thought DSI had learned something from that debacle. Seems very clear that they haven't. :(
Old 4th August 2013
  #1758
Gear Head
 
apeman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I think the Poly Evolver sounds better. Like it has more punch to the sound. But that's just me. I wouldn't mind having them both but if I could only have one I guess my pick would be the Evolver.
Old 4th August 2013
  #1759
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
"It's a small bug" means "not hard to fix" not "irrelevant to most users".

"I'll fix it shortly" means it's on his list of things to do and he'll get to it as soon as he can; that's the best time estimate he can give you right now.

"I'll do it when I get the time/want to, I have so much else to do. Now, please get off my back" means he's too busy partying with Dave and Roger and all the hot synth groupies to attend to your problems. No, actually it means that you're projecting and you should chill out and demonstrate a little patience instead of imagining things that aren't true.

The Andromeda has serious bugs that were never fixed and will never be fixed. When's the last time Roland's programmers responded personally to bug reports? Perspective is a good thing.
Old 4th August 2013
  #1760
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years

Last edited by NewsFromTheSky; 4th August 2013 at 04:53 PM.. Reason: echo echo echo echo...
Old 4th August 2013 | Show parent
  #1761
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Could anyone that owns a P12 and has owned P8 comment on programming the synth?

I'm seriously considering the Prophet 8 or 12, money is a big factor and I'm already convinced on the P8's sound but the P12 obviously has better specs on paper, I'm not too sure of it's character yet.

The thing that worries me on the P8 is the screen, my eyesight is crap and from what I understand it's a lot of heavy menu driving for making your own sounds - I could get the editor but I'd like to sit at the synth and do it standalone.

The P12, as I understand it, is mostly done on the keyboard itself by some new Assign button feature, press it, twist a knob then twist the desitnation knob. Is this accurate?

Any comments on programming the P12 vs P8 would be appreciated. I'm sitting on the fence on this one and I can't quite make up my mind. I'm defaulting to the P8, I'm just worried about having a hard time making presets, which is something I'm good at and love doing.
Old 4th August 2013 | Show parent
  #1762
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewsFromTheSky ➑️
"It's a small bug" means "not hard to fix" not "irrelevant to most users".

"I'll fix it shortly" means it's on his list of things to do and he'll get to it as soon as he can; that's the best time estimate he can give you right now.

"I'll do it when I get the time/want to, I have so much else to do. Now, please get off my back" means he's too busy partying with Dave and Roger and all the hot synth groupies to attend to your problems. No, actually it means that you're projecting and you should chill out and demonstrate a little patience instead of imagining things that aren't true.

The Andromeda has serious bugs that were never fixed and will never be fixed. When's the last time Roland's programmers responded personally to bug reports? Perspective is a good thing.
I find your post quite offensive.
Working with software development myself and dealing with Public and customer relations I understand exactly what he means and why he might phrase things like he did.

That doesn't mean it's is the right thing to do though, and I am pointing that out.

I find the apologist stance interesting. By comparing with the A6 for example, are you suggesting we should be thankful they intend to fix the bug?

Last but not least, the next time you post please consider that those you attempt to correct may actually have more experience and insight than you think.
Old 4th August 2013 | Show parent
  #1763
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxis ➑️
I find your post quite offensive.
Working with software development myself and dealing with Public and customer relations I understand exactly what he means and why he might phrase things like he did.

That doesn't mean it's is the right thing to do though, and I am pointing that out.

I find the apologist stance interesting. By comparing with the A6 for example, are you suggesting we should be thankful they intend to fix the bug?

Last but not least, the next time you post please consider that those you attempt to correct may actually have more experience and insight than you think.
Simple answer to your problem. Answer with your wallet. Do not by the P12 if you feel this way. There all fixed. Personally, I love their products and find their service very good. They are also one of the few companies that are making quality analog synths at a price point normal people can afford.

As for his response, should he freak out and say what a huge problem it is? I tend to play my synths with a keyboard from the synth itself. He said they were working on it. Shall he personally send messaged updates to your inbox or something? Some of the people on this forum are hilarious. I never cease to be amused at the responses.

As for Pym, keep up the good work man. Most of us love and appreciate your work.
Old 4th August 2013 | Show parent
  #1764
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by operaman ➑️
Simple answer to your problem. Answer with your wallet. Do not by the P12 if you feel this way. There all fixed. Personally, I love their products and find their service very good. They are also one of the few companies that are making quality analog synths at a price point normal people can afford.
It's already bought and paid for. And as I wrote earlier I don't regret the purchase. It's an awesome synth. But it's a bit buggy (as per my post that started this part of the discussion).

Quote:
As for his response, should he freak out and say what a huge problem it is? I tend to play my synths with a keyboard from the synth itself. He said they were working on it. Shall he personally send messaged updates to your inbox or something?
He should be respectful of DSI's customers and he should be forthcoming and transparent about the problem and the estimated timetable for a fix. Is that really too much to ask?

When my company finds itself in similar situations (does happen despite our best intents), this is what we do: We post a message where we apologize for the inconvenience, try to explain the nature and cause of the problem (if it helps to avoid the problem for example) and we do our best to give an opinion on when and how it will be fixed.

That is the respectful and right way to treat customers. The fact that I like DSI and their instruments is the very reason I react to something that may well be hurting their brand and making some of their customers annoyed with them.

Quote:
Some of the people on this forum are hilarious. I never cease to be amused at the responses.
Not sure if that is some veiled insult intended at me. I don't really care. I'll just state that I find it really interesting that some people can't seem to understand that there are good ways and bad ways to conduct business. Likewise there are good ways and bad ways to treat people you interact with. He was pretty disrespectful in his replies. I just call it like I see it.

Last edited by Foxis; 4th August 2013 at 07:51 PM.. Reason: Borked quote tags
Old 4th August 2013 | Show parent
  #1765
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkyspacecadet ➑️
Could anyone that owns a P12 and has owned P8 comment on programming the synth?
I have both and while I definitely cannot claim to have done advanced programming on any of them I would say that the philosophy and layout is very similar. On both synths there are occasions where you have to use the display for programming, but on both almost all controls are per-function knobs/buttons.
The advantage the P12 has is that the OLED display is bigger and has higher resolution along with 4 dedicated knobs and buttons assigned to the displayed parameters. This makes some tasks quicker (such as adjusting the same parameter for all the oscillators at once). So the P12 should probably be viewed as an evolution of the layout/philosophy used for P8.

Anyway, the real deciding factor between the P8/12 should be sound. They do sound different and lends themselves to different sounds, so you will have to compare them and then just let your heart decide.
Old 4th August 2013 | Show parent
  #1766
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxis ➑️
Not sure if that is some veiled insult intended at me. I don't really care. I'll just state that I find it really interesting that some people can't seem to understand that there are good ways and bad ways to conduct business. Likewise there are good ways and bad ways to treat people you interact with. He was pretty disrespectful in his replies. I just call it like I see it.
It was not veiled. He was not rude in any way and people are overreacting. That is all. He takes time to come on to this forum despite having their own forums to respond at all. I think that is pretty good service. If you find his response to be discourteous then I would say you need to relax. He said it was a small bug, and they will fix it. Most companies do not bother to respond at all
Old 4th August 2013 | Show parent
  #1767
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxis ➑️
I have both and while I definitely cannot claim to have done advanced programming on any of them I would say that the philosophy and layout is very similar. On both synths there are occasions where you have to use the display for programming, but on both almost all controls are per-function knobs/buttons.
Hey, thanks for your input, appreciated. I guess it's really down to cost/sound, I'll check the manuals for both and see.
Old 4th August 2013 | Show parent
  #1768
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by operaman ➑️
It was not veiled. He was not rude in any way and people are overreacting. That is all. He takes time to come on to this forum despite having their own forums to respond at all. I think that is pretty good service. If you find his response to be discourteous then I would say you need to relax. He said it was a small bug, and they will fix it. Most companies do not bother to respond at all
I think we just have to agree to disagree.
Based on your expectations ("Most companies don't bother...") I can sort of see where you are coming from. I just don't share your view of how companies and people ought to behave. Maybe I'm naive but I prefer it when people treat others nicely.

Just for the record, I am very relaxed and don't feel personally insulted or angered by what he wrote. Like I stated earlier, I just call it like I see it.
Old 4th August 2013 | Show parent
  #1769
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxis ➑️
I think we just have to agree to disagree.
Based on your expectations ("Most companies don't bother...") I can sort of see where you are coming from. I just don't share your view of how companies and people ought to behave. Maybe I'm naive but I prefer it when people treat others nicely.

Just for the record, I am very relaxed and don't feel personally insulted or angered by what he wrote. Like I stated earlier, I just call it like I see it.
There is no agree to disagree. You are wrong. Pym is coming onto a forum completely unrelated to DSI Forums and responding to a thread. His comment was it was a small bug they are fixing with a smiley face. Please do tell what he should have said that would have been nice? And please also show me where he was rude, because if that was rude of him there are no words to express how utterly ridiculous I find that to be.
Old 4th August 2013 | Show parent
  #1770
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by operaman ➑️
There is no agree to disagree. You are wrong. Pym is coming onto a forum completely unrelated to DSI Forums and responding to a thread. His comment was it was a small bug they are fixing with a smiley face. Please do tell what he should have said that would have been nice? And please also show me where he was rude, because if that was rude of him there are no words to express how utterly ridiculous I find that to be.
On the DSI forums he wrote: "It's a bug, I'll fix it. I just have a lot of other things to do right now. I don't respond to every thread on here, otherwise I'd get no code done"

That is no way to respond to customers (politely) requesting more information. You can judge me all you want. I honestly do not care, I stand by my opinion, and am not interested in discussing the matter further with you.
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