Quantcast
DSI Prophet 12 - Page 35 - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
DSI Prophet 12
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #1021
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
future ? why did dsi revamp waldorf's 2002 q+ then ?
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #1022
Lives for gear
 
grumphh's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rust Creep ➡️
If you think DSI went with digital osc to save money
Without having any experience in designing synths, i'd imagine that having one computer chip generating 48 digital oscillators is a lot cheaper than having to deal with 48 individual more-or-less analogue osc chips and their signals.



And just for the record, i happen to have no problems at all with digital oscillators, when implemented in the right way
(..."the right way" meaning that the synth as a whole has to sound good to me ).
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #1023
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy ➡️
I think you're hung up on that phrase, seeing as you keep using it and I haven't.
Really? Geez, i thought for a minute it must have been my imagination that you wrote this on post 890:
Quote:
synths people would buy to make a wide variety of music, not just wub or fart bass or bug noises
And i must have imagined it when you wrote about
Quote:
sound effects/wanking
and about
Quote:
a bunch of odd blippity sounds
on post 936. Should i go on?
I am hung up on that phrase? Can you not read your own words or something?


Quote:
Regardless, liking every style of music there is doesn't sound all that sensible to me.
Wow. That has got to be one of the most narrow minded comments ever. First of all - what i said is that in every style of music, you can find crap and gold. I like good music - regardless of what genre you categorize it to.
But i guess you're right, and i should choose. I think i should stick to rock, and give up the rest because it is not sensible to like every style of music there is.

Quote:
If I kept pestering you about flowerpots and your polyanalogs
I wasn't pestering you. And i didn't come to this thread to elaborate on the GRP. What happend is that you had a great theory about the minibrute and dsi being the most innovative synths of the past few years - and i gave a list of other manufacturers (grp included) that make innovative synths. Your answer was, in short - that boutique synths don't count. Heaven knows why and from when boutique or not is a parameter for innovative and original.

Other than that - someone commented that the demos of the grp he had heard - were meh, so i put a link to other demos, for whoever is interested in hearing them. But since you have a strong defence mechanism, and self justification - you have to constantly prove to yourself that dsi must be "top of the pyramid".
Old 14th February 2013
  #1024
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
I have no problem with digital oscillators either. Urs heckmann is currently my favorite synth maker (programmer, whatever). But digital oscillators have been around for a long time and they are substantially cheaper than their analog counterparts.

But this completely changes the point I was making. So I'll make it as clear and dry as possible:

Dave is misrepresenting the stability of analog FM to sell his new synth when their were other reasons to go for digital oscillators.
Old 14th February 2013
  #1025
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Things that several of EMI/EMP forum visitors find incredibly hard to understand:

1) DCOs

2) Economics 101

3) Why Roland won't re-release the Jupiter 8 for $1500.
Old 14th February 2013
  #1026
Lives for gear
 
asynchro_nous's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
What Dave has done here is nothing short of criminal.

Hopefully he will be exposed finally as the deceptive, hope-killing sociopath he truly is once and for all.

I would like to extend a heartfelt thank you to all of the self-appointed Oscillator Police (truly an underappreciated group of hardworking and principled boys and girls, let"s give them all a warm handshake and a big cookie) who are tirelessly, zealously, and unironically working to keep the synthesizer world a pure and happy place, not just for us, but for the children, bless their little hearts.

Dave, if you are reading this, know in your bones that you are hereby and henceforth put On Notice.

Being the grandfather of MIDI no longer gives you some sort of sicko diplomatic immunity.

The halo effect has faded to digital black and we will no longer allow you to hurt our kids with your misrepresentations, deceptions, and general disregard for people's feelings and esoteric sensibilities.

PS: Can you please give the desktop version of the 12 multimbrality, step sequencing, and an external input?

Thank you
Old 14th February 2013
  #1027
Lives for gear
 
cresshead's Avatar
currently it's difficult to get a real handle on what the prophet 12 can do:-

the O/S is not finalised yet
the demo's we here are from the same people so we only get to hear the style they like to demo.

once it;s released we'll get a broader cross section of players/owners on the synth and so a better handle on what it can do.

at the moment it's not doing anything for me, but same can be said of the tempest too...the people buying that just seem to have no idea about programming drums on a drum machine in my opinion...it's all stuttery nonsense.
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #1028
Lives for gear
 
laikenf's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by asynchro_nous ➡️
What Dave has done here is nothing short of criminal.

Hopefully he will be exposed finally as the deceptive, hope-killing sociopath he truly is once and for all.

I would like to extend a heartfelt thank you to all of the self-appointed Oscillator Police (truly an underappreciated group of hardworking and principled boys and girls, let"s give them all a warm handshake and a big cookie) who are tirelessly, zealously, and unironically working to keep the synthesizer world a pure and happy place, not just for us, but for the children, bless their little hearts.

Dave, if you are reading this, know in your bones that you are hereby and henceforth put On Notice.

Being the grandfather of MIDI no longer gives you some sort of sicko diplomatic immunity.

The halo effect has faded to digital black and we will no longer allow you to hurt our kids with your misrepresentations, deceptions, and general disregard for people's feelings and esoteric sensibilities.

PS: Can you please give the desktop version of the 12 multimbrality, step sequencing, and an external input?

Thank you
Well said, someone has to put this Dave Smith character in his place!!! ...
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #1029
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
So can you do wavetable synthisis with vco's or dco's ?
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #1030
Lives for gear
 
laikenf's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryankraft ➡️
So can you do wavetable synthisis with vco's or dco's ?
Not sure, but I read sometime, somewhere that VCO based synths are great samplers ...
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #1031
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryankraft ➡️
So can you do wavetable synthisis with vco's or dco's ?
Wavetable implies that you have a set of keyframes - say, a sample of a saw on the left, a square on the right - and that software "morphs" between these shapes - all the waveshapes inbetween are calculated instead of stored in memory. The distance between the keyframes defines the fidelity; if you have to morph between saw and square in 10 in-between frames or 100, that's quite a difference - the first transition will be rougher.

Morphing is simply a matter of blending at relative volume.

Doing this in the analog world is possible but not easy at all.

First of all, all oscillators must be in phase and in tune (DCOs preferably). Once they drift, you can't replicate the morphing anymore. Then you need a mixer that is fully voltage controlled; you'd have to record the CV mixer to morph. Last, you need oscillators with complex waveshapes; the PPG/MicroWave are fun because you can get waveforms that are beyond basic subtractive. On their own they're not that exciting, but they make excellent morph material. You need one oscillator per keyframe, so if you want 5 frames (1 left, 1 right, 3 divided in between at irregular spots), you'll need 5 oscillators to blend between.

So that shows why it's easier to do digitally; in phase/in tune is guaranteed, mixer can be software (just multiply and add the values), complex waveshapes are just as hard/easy to generate as simple ones, and arbitrary keyframe positions are trivial.
Old 14th February 2013
  #1032
Lives for gear
 
Pianolando's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 ➡️
400 factory presets + 400 user presets
Thanks! That's quite a lot!

Anyone have any idea about my second question, if you can create splits from existing presets?
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #1033
ozy
Lives for gear
 
ozy's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer ➡️
Roland won't re-release the Jupiter 8 for $1500.
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #1034
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer ➡️
Wavetable implies that you have a set of keyframes - say, a sample of a saw on the left, a square on the right - and that software "morphs" between these shapes - all the waveshapes inbetween are calculated instead of stored in memory. The distance between the keyframes defines the fidelity; if you have to morph between saw and square in 10 in-between frames or 100, that's quite a difference - the first transition will be rougher.

Morphing is simply a matter of blending at relative volume.

Doing this in the analog world is possible but not easy at all.

First of all, all oscillators must be in phase and in tune (DCOs preferably). Once they drift, you can't replicate the morphing anymore. Then you need a mixer that is fully voltage controlled; you'd have to record the CV mixer to morph. Last, you need oscillators with complex waveshapes; the PPG/MicroWave are fun because you can get waveforms that are beyond basic subtractive. On their own they're not that exciting, but they make excellent morph material. You need one oscillator per keyframe, so if you want 5 frames (1 left, 1 right, 3 divided in between at irregular spots), you'll need 5 oscillators to blend between.

So that shows why it's easier to do digitally; in phase/in tune is guaranteed, mixer can be software (just multiply and add the values), complex waveshapes are just as hard/easy to generate as simple ones, and arbitrary keyframe positions are trivial.
......So you need multiple (more than 2) stable oscillators to do this......add to that the AM/FM thing and possible other tricks .....it would kind of make sense to do what Dave Smith has done wouldn't you say ?
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #1035
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianolando ➡️
Thanks! That's quite a lot!

Anyone have any idea about my second question, if you can create splits from existing presets?
You can definitely split or layer the keyboard (bi) but at this time it's unclear whether the split is note allocated (like P08) or not.
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #1036
Lives for gear
 
maisonvague's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by slick easy ➡️
I have no problem with digital oscillators either. Urs heckmann is currently my favorite synth maker (programmer, whatever). But digital oscillators have been around for a long time and they are substantially cheaper than their analog counterparts.

But this completely changes the point I was making. So I'll make it as clear and dry as possible:

Dave is misrepresenting the stability of analog FM to sell his new synth when their were other reasons to go for digital oscillators.
Many other reasons, I might add.

Well, thanks to informed posts by wishy-washy, Yoozer and some others, it should be clearer now to everyone why the Prophet-12 was not designed with DCOs.

Man, I would love to know what the folks at DSI think of some of these comments (if they're even bothering to read them anymore at this pathetic juncture).

I'll tell you what slick -- how about you and redloheb go into business together? Redloheb could be in charge of R & D and you could handle the business side of things including advertising and public relations (with the highest ethical standards, of course).

You could call it the Behemoth and for your first ad campaign this could be your spin:

They said it couldn't be done!

Behold!

We bring you the Behemoth!

The ultimate uncompromising multi-timbral FM DCO polysynth that others (like Dave Smith) were too deceitful and cheap to make!

Only $25,000!

Now accepting preorders.
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #1037
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague ➡️
Many other reasons, I might add.

Well, thanks to informed posts by wishy-washy, Yoozer and some others, it should be clear to everyone by now why the Prophet-12 was not designed with DCOs.

Man, I would love to know what the folks at DSI think of some of these comments (if they're even bothering to read them anymore at this pathetic juncture).

I'll tell you what slick -- how about you and redloheb go into business together? Redloheb could be in charge of design and you could handle the business side of things including advertising and public relations (with the highest ethical standards, of course).

You could call it the Behemoth and for your first ad campaign this could be your spin:

They said it couldn't be done!

Behold!

We bring you the Behemoth!

The ultimate uncompromising multi-timbral FM DCO polysynth that others (like Dave Smith) were too deceitful and cheap to make!

Only $25,000!

Now accepting preorders.
yep...........i'm all for it......but to be in true gearslut mode of course i would never buy it......just bitch about why they didn't add the filter from ARP2600
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #1038
ozy
Lives for gear
 
ozy's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryankraft ➡️
synthisis

Old 14th February 2013
  #1039
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Jesus F Christ... When the P12 is finally released can we delete this thread and start over please?

Some of the posts in here are as pathetic as the wackos on YouTube who have made it their personal mission to repeatedly post that the P12 sounds nothing like a 'real' analog synth...to which I say, 'so what?'
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #1040
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozy ➡️
Indeed
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #1041
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by slippast ➡️
Jesus F Christ... When the P12 is finally released can we delete this thread and start over please?

Some of the posts in here are as pathetic as the wackos on YouTube who have made it their personal mission to repeatedly post that the P12 sounds nothing like a 'real' analog synth...to which I say, 'so what?'
Welcome to gearslutz.....I'm actually waiting for the first pie chart showing what % of the P12 is actually digital vs. anal-ogue
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #1042
Lives for gear
 
charles chocula's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague ➡️
I'll tell you what slick -- how about you and redloheb go into business together? Redloheb could be in charge of R & D and you could handle the business side of things including advertising and public relations (with the highest ethical standards, of course).

You could call it the Behemoth and for your first ad campaign this could be your spin:

They said it couldn't be done!

Behold!

We bring you the Behemoth!

The ultimate uncompromising multi-timbral FM DCO polysynth that others (like Dave Smith) were too deceitful and cheap to make!

Only $25,000!

Now accepting preorders.
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #1043
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by asynchro_nous ➡️
What Dave has done here is nothing short of criminal.

Hopefully he will be exposed finally as the deceptive, hope-killing sociopath he truly is once and for all.

I would like to extend a heartfelt thank you to all of the self-appointed Oscillator Police (truly an underappreciated group of hardworking and principled boys and girls, let"s give them all a warm handshake and a big cookie) who are tirelessly, zealously, and unironically working to keep the synthesizer world a pure and happy place, not just for us, but for the children, bless their little hearts.

Dave, if you are reading this, know in your bones that you are hereby and henceforth put On Notice.

Being the grandfather of MIDI no longer gives you some sort of sicko diplomatic immunity.

The halo effect has faded to digital black and we will no longer allow you to hurt our kids with your misrepresentations, deceptions, and general disregard for people's feelings and esoteric sensibilities.

PS: Can you please give the desktop version of the 12 multimbrality, step sequencing, and an external input?

Thank you
finally, someone thought of THE CHILDREN

cheers
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #1044
Lives for gear
 
Mefistophelees's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by teceem ➡️
When I program a sound I start with the osc's before I start cutting away with the filter. You were presuming that nobody does that.

I don't quite know how you made that mental leap. I was actually pointing out that you don't generally hear raw oscillators in music. I was not talking about programming.

If you disagreed with what I said why didn't you just say so?
I'm only voicing my opinion, you are quite welcome to voice yours!


BTW in answer to your question about what sounds I use, I mostly create my own sounds but I'll use it analogue, digital, hybrid, custom sounds and presets. I only care that it sounds good. How it is made or who made is of no importance.
Old 14th February 2013
  #1045
Lives for gear
 
Mefistophelees's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
On the DCO not doing FM Pym made a post about it somewhere. The problem was not financial, it is technical.

That said, if they could have use the curtis oscillators to do FM it would have been *cheaper* because they wouldn't need all the DSPs.

The theory that this is just cost lead is a load of bunk.
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #1046
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by asynchro_nous ➡️
What Dave has done here is nothing short of criminal.

Hopefully he will be exposed finally as the deceptive, hope-killing sociopath he truly is once and for all.

I would like to extend a heartfelt thank you to all of the self-appointed Oscillator Police (truly an underappreciated group of hardworking and principled boys and girls, let"s give them all a warm handshake and a big cookie) who are tirelessly, zealously, and unironically working to keep the synthesizer world a pure and happy place, not just for us, but for the children, bless their little hearts.

Dave, if you are reading this, know in your bones that you are hereby and henceforth put On Notice.

Being the grandfather of MIDI no longer gives you some sort of sicko diplomatic immunity.

The halo effect has faded to digital black and we will no longer allow you to hurt our kids with your misrepresentations, deceptions, and general disregard for people's feelings and esoteric sensibilities.

PS: Can you please give the desktop version of the 12 multimbrality, step sequencing, and an external input?

Thank you
The cad!



P.S. Dave, please somehow cram the P12 into a 37 or 44 key body
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #1047
Lives for gear
 
Mefistophelees's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
On VCO / DCO wavetables:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer ➡️
Doing this in the analog world is possible but not easy at all.

First of all, all oscillators must be in phase and in tune (DCOs preferably). Once they drift, you can't replicate the morphing anymore. Then you need a mixer that is fully voltage controlled; you'd have to record the CV mixer to morph. Last, you need oscillators with complex waveshapes; the PPG/MicroWave are fun because you can get waveforms that are beyond basic subtractive. On their own they're not that exciting, but they make excellent morph material. You need one oscillator per keyframe, so if you want 5 frames (1 left, 1 right, 3 divided in between at irregular spots), you'll need 5 oscillators to blend between.
There is another way:

Build one oscillator with multiple simultaneous wave outs. Not just the usual ones but extra wave shapes as well.

Then add a voltage controlled mixer. By mixing the basic waves you could get a range of different wave shapes.

You can then use the voltage control to morph to other waveshapes.

So, you really only need one oscillator, just a really complicated one.

It could probably even be done as a VCO.
Old 14th February 2013
  #1048
Lives for gear
 
cresshead's Avatar
that website behind dave smith on that photo!



Pintando sonidos y el futuro de la síntesis sonora | Hispasonic
Old 14th February 2013 | Show parent
  #1049
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
A prediction from Olivier Gillet (Mutable Instruments) from that article, by way of Google Translate:
Quote:
"New Vintage": the people want their synths are capable of making sounds that sounded on the radio the year in which they lay down with someone for the first time. Hence the "crappy" VAs, will become fashionable again.
Certainly seems to have happened with the "Old Vintage" / "crappy" analogs...
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 7548 views: 1010931
Avatar for bass2rez
bass2rez 1 minute ago
replies: 91 views: 35653
Avatar for Roodillon
Roodillon 16th June 2015
replies: 811 views: 67463
Avatar for Sharp11
Sharp11 2 weeks ago
replies: 64 views: 2788
Avatar for zerocrossing
zerocrossing 11th March 2021
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump