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DSI Prophet 12
Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #931
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charles chocula's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalfalcon ➡️
I am truly not trying to flame here (well maybe so...)but I don't think you can consider DSI's marketing or even the initial response to the P08 a "bust" by any stretch of the imagination
oh well, you know, i'm just working on taking them to the next level...
Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #932
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy ➡️
I don't want to just sound sneery. And thinking about it, there are basically two ways to showcase a monosynth; either doing leads and basses in a track, or making sound effects/wanking. But whenever someone does a bunch of odd blippity sounds, I never think "Oh THAT sound is killer! What else is gonna sound like that?" Because even a Juno can do some of that.

No. Not really. A juno can't do some of that. But nevermind that - if by your definitions these grp demos are "odd blippity sounds" than i really wonder what are your standarts. I mean you don't have to like this synth or anything, but musically speaking - if these demos, in your opinion, belong to the "fart bass and bug noises" category than i wonder what constitues as "music" in your opinion.

Quote:
Plus the stuff that interests me is more old school concept rock, where Moog bass and ARP or Obie leads are all the rage
Than why get a P12 and not a real moog (or a good clone' like studio electronics, or macbeth), an se boomstar 4075 for arp filter, and a sem pro. You'll be in prog rock heaven.
If it's prog rock and old rock kind of sounds - than most synths can do them because they are fairly simple. Sure, on the grp you can just choose two oscilators (detune them and than what), set to sawtooth, a lowpass filter (no need to "complicate" things with dual filters and all of that), and a simple envelope, and perhaps some lfo action. No need for crossmod, ringmod, s&h, looping envelopes, blah blah.
But than again - that's true for all synths. I made "classic" sounds with the Polyevolver when i had it. But you don't get a polyevolver (or a P12) just for that. If it's classic sounds you seek - than why bother with "girth", "air", "tuned feedback" and other "screechy" stuff?

What kind of sounds do you hope to make with the P12? Classic? "Dancy"? Experimental?
If you can focus on what kind of sounds you're looking for, and for what kind of music - than the answer to the question "which synth is for you" will be a whole lot clearer.
Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #933
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maisonvague's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 ➡️
Fair enough. Perhaps these demos might give you a different impression (and perhaps not:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/7906537-post78.html
Well, I think those examples are excellent and really demonstrate the range of sounds possible with that synth. I would not be interested in buying such a synth just to make standard synth sounds anyway (although a quick glance through the specs would indicate it's certainly possible).

When listening to synth demos, rarely does the aesthetic of the player perfectly match my own. It inevitably takes imagination. So, I'm actually thankful when a player makes an effort to demonstrate a synth's potential by going to extremes, even when those extremes might not be useful as musical gestures within the context of my own music.

But since my own output ranges from straight-up synthpop to avant-garde music, there are actually very few synths I can say would be of absolutely no use to me (which is why I have so many -- too many, in fact ).
Old 12th February 2013
  #934
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kslight ➡️
I'd venture to guess that this is why Trent Reznor has one right now, to have someone competent put together a demo of sorts. On paper it looks pretty cool, but I haven't heard a demo where I was like "WOW that's $3K good".
I agree. Having 4 wavetable oscillators FM each other in sequence should be awesome in the right hands (while others will probably just end up making white/pink noise). It really should be nice. Along with the 24db high and low pass filters.

But really each demo sounds banal. Pym's stuff was derivative but I'm guessing that was the goal. Almost all the presets Dave Smith was playing at NAMm were underwhelming. I think unison was pretty noteworthy. But if it takes 60 oscillators stacked to create a sound that can cut through then the oscillatoes are not that great to begin with.

This is likely why we haven't really heard any dry demos. Many other synth makers start by showcasing individual components dry (like Ken of Macbeth) before patching everything together to give everyone the best idea of how it sounds. And that is how is should be because it doesn't lend itself to any prejudice of musical genre.

Couple this with Dave going into salesman mode and saying things like "3000$ not bad for an analog synth" and "we chose digital oscillators becase anolog ones have stability issues with FM" (that one really made me facepalm) and DSI inability to have a proper fix for tempest, a current product. All the "best synths ever" remarks are, at best, naive or, at worst, sophisms.
Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #935
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redloheb's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by slick easy ➡️
"we chose digital oscillators because analog ones have stability issues with FM"


Mottos like in addition are killing initial P'12 super GAS that I've experienced. And I think I'm not alone on gs.

And frankly still there's no demo showing what is exceptional in p'12 in comparison with previous evolver and tetra/prophet/mopho.
Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #936
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GeorgeHayduke's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Yikes, GS'ers are in a bad mood today..
Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #937
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Looping Loddar's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by redloheb ➡️
Mottos like in addition are killing initial P'12 super GAS that I've experienced. And I think I'm not alone on gs.
Sure. It was a very short remark. It would have been better if he had said that it is a very complicate if not impossible task to make analog OSCs really good enough for analog fm on a 48 osc synthesizer without beeing very expensive. I suppose: With a clever design digital oscillators can be very satisfying in a hybrid design today.

I am quite sure that the Prophet 12 is a winner.

(i am waiting for a rack or table top version)
Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #938
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke ➡️
Yikes, GS'ers are in a bad mood today..
........Well ya know ......add to the fact it isn't a rev. 2 P5 or doesn't look and sound exactly like a 1986 Prophet VS so it just won't do
Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #939
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laikenf's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryankraft ➡️
........Well ya know ......add to the fact it isn't a rev. 2 P5 or doesn't look and sound exactly like a 1986 Prophet VS so it just won't do
Does every new synth on earth have to sound like an existing vintage one?... I can understand not liking it, but why does it have to sound like something else? Why MUST it have a vintage tone? This isn't 1986, this is (obviously) not a P5 nor is it a Pro VS, and Dave is not out to make replicas, maybe he could if he wanted (who knows) but he's not. Hell, even the name is a good hint that this is a new instrument: Prophet 12, a first...
Old 12th February 2013
  #940
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kpatz's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I'm going to make a prediction.

25-odd years from now GSers will be whining that the newly announced Prophet-256 doesn't sound like the vintage Prophet-12 that is commanding record prices on eBay. And the dilithium resonant subspace filter just doesn't sound analog enough. But for an expected street price of only $649,999.95 (equivalent to $2,599.95 today) it'll be a virtual bargain...
Old 12th February 2013
  #941
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🎧 5 years
Why all the irony?

People just want proper demos so all this bloat can turn into GAS.
Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #942
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by laikenf ➡️
Does every new synth on earth have to sound like an existing vintage one?... I can understand not liking it, but why does it have to sound like something else? Why does it must have a vintage tone? This isn't 1986, this is (obviously) not a P5 nor is it a Pro VS, and Dave is not out to make replicas, maybe he could if he wanted (who knows) but he's not. Hell, even the name is a good hint that this is a new instrument: Prophet 12, a first...
Don't know if it was directed at me or just in general but if you read the thread you will see that i've already pre ordered the 12.....I was being sarcastic.....personally i don't give a fly f***k whether or not it sounds like P5,P6,P-one, PPG, VS, P2000 or xxxxxx i've pre ordered based on what i've seen and heard so far....add to the fact that i've pretty much given up on Stromberg. DS has always been foward thinking (with his roots based in analogue).....I'm very pleased with his decision to use digital oscillators and mix it up....At least he has the balls to try something a little different....i mean come on.....sub phatty......yeh ....they gave you new oscillators in that cause people where pissed with the tuning issues with LP.....then try to market it as something new and magical......gee wiz
Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #943
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laikenf's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryankraft ➡️
Don't know if it was directed at me or just in general but if you read the thread you will see that i've already pre ordered the 12.....I was being sarcastic.....personally i don't give a fly f***k whether or not it sounds like P5,P6,P-one, PPG, VS, P2000 or xxxxxx i've pre ordered based on what i've seen and heard so far....add to the fact that i've pretty much given up on Stromberg. DS has always been foward thinking (with his roots based in analogue).....I'm very pleased with his decision to use digital oscillators and mix it up....At least he has the balls to try something a little different....i mean come on.....sub phatty......yeh ....they gave you new oscillators in that cause people where pissed with the tuning issues with LP.....then try to market it as something new and magical......gee wiz
Ok sorry 'bout that ... but I stand by what I said, just not directed at you this time ... I suck at sarcasm, even in person
Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #944
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by slick easy ➡️
Why all the irony?

People just want proper demos so all this bloat can turn into GAS.
Proper demos will come when the synth is complete or there abouts.... It's being talked about that P12 will be released late May or maybe June. Certain things have got to be finished or revised yet.... my guess there will be plenty of demos when it's 'time'

Last edited by ryankraft; 12th February 2013 at 05:41 PM.. Reason: spelling
Old 12th February 2013
  #945
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryankraft ➡️
Proper demos will come when the synth is complete or there abouts.... It's being talked about that P12 will be released late May or maybe June. Certain things have got to be finished or revised yet.... my guess there will be plenty of demos when it's 'time'
So we are hearing what in the demos? Not a prophet 12?

Well maybe we should change the name of this instrument to the progenitor 12 because clearly the prophet 12 is incomplete.
Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #946
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by slick easy ➡️
So we are hearing what in the demos? Not a prophet 12?

Well maybe we should change the name of this instrument to the progenitor 12 because clearly the prophet 12 is incomplete.
You clearly haven't taken the time to look into this ....certain things to be added and or altered are waveforms (added), Delay alogs. (revised)....nothing that will effect the basic tone....just 'icing'
Old 12th February 2013
  #947
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looping Loddar ➡️
Sure. It was a very short remark. It would have been better if he had said that it is a very complicate if not impossible task to make analog OSCs really good enough for analog fm on a 48 osc synthesizer without beeing very expensive. I suppose: With a clever design digital oscillators can be very satisfying in a hybrid design today.

I am quite sure that the Prophet 12 is a winner.

(i am waiting for a rack or table top version)
There is no doubt that a 48 analog osc synth with FM and 24 filters would be expensive. Impossible? Hmmm...not really.

But thats not the point I take issue with. Dave is using semiotics to obfusticate the reasoning for going with digital oscillators. That is, he is justifying it by conveying a problem with analog FM that really isn't a problem. There are already solutions to analog FM stability and sometimes having instability is a benefit.

Yes wavetable synthesis is great and only possible digitally. Just leave it at that. Don't drag analog FM in the mud because its not featured on a flagship synth.
Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #948
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryankraft ➡️
Proper demos will come when the synth is complete or there abouts.... It's being talked about that P12 will be released late May or maybe June. Certain things have got to be finished or revised yet.... my guess there will be plenty of demos when it's 'time'
Exactly, the synth isn't even done. The features are not complete, etc... And people want real demos already. The tempest isn't even done yet and people want them to rush this too
Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #949
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maisonvague's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryankraft ➡️
Proper demos will come when the synth is complete or there abouts.... It's being talked about that P12 will be released late May or maybe June. Certain things have got to be finished or revised yet.... my guess there will be plenty of demos when it's 'time'
For sure. I think it's way too early to start bumming out about this synth, especially since it's not even finished yet. I see a lot more positive things to be excited about than negative things to complain about. Of course, no synth will ever please every one.

There would seem to be some folks around here with so much experience and such high standards of synth design, they are comfortable with making critical remarks against Dave Smith and the P-12, even at this juncture. I would not be comfortable doing that.

If he claims this is his best design ever, I believe him. So, in deference to his life experience and superior knowledge of design, I intend to withhold any criticism until I've actually played the board myself. Personally I'm not even all that interested in more demos. I want to play it.
Old 12th February 2013
  #950
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryankraft ➡️
You clearly haven't taken the time to look into this ....certain things to be added and or altered are waveforms (added), Delay alogs. (revised)....nothing that will effect the basic tone....just 'icing'
That's it! The synth at its current state is still representative of its final spec. Just demo the dry oscillators with waveforms that are already available and add the other modules as the demo goes. That's a proper demo. Not here is this preset or this preset. Unless someone want to spend 3k to preset dive. Which I'm sure there are plenty of people that will. This synth is a monster.
Old 12th February 2013
  #951
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague ➡️
For sure. I think it's way too early to start bumming out about this synth, especially since it's not even finished yet. I see a lot more positive things to be excited about than negative things to complain about. Of course, no synth will ever please every one.

There would seem to be some folks around here with so much experience and such high standards of synth design, they are comfortable with making critical remarks against Dave Smith and the P-12, even at this juncture. I would not be comfortable doing that.

If he claims this is his best design ever, I believe him. So, in deference to his life experience and superior knowledge of design, I intend to withhold any criticism until I've actually played the board myself. Personally I'm not even all that interested in more demos. I want to play it.
Come on now. You can't be impressionable enough to beleive the owner of a company when he proclaims his product is the best ever. That is textbook marketing.

Dave Smith is a legend and has made great advancements in synth creation. He is also a wonderful businessman.

Didn't he also say that the tempest is the best drum machine ever. Well is it? It must be since he said it. You can't even modulate parameters with incoming MIDI but its the best drum machine ever. Hopefully that wont be the case with the best synth ever.
Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #952
ozy
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ozy's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by slick easy ➡️
You can't be impressionable enough to beleive the owner of a company when he proclaims his product is the best ever. That is textbook marketing.
Do you own an iPad?

iPhone?

Did you vote for the current President?

Are you married?

How did you choose your bank?

Just asking.

People seem to believe Gear is the only domain of life where absolute free will exists (or none)
Old 12th February 2013
  #953
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozy ➡️
Do you own an iPad?

iPhone?

Did you vote for the current President?

Are you married?

How did you choose your bank?

Just asking.

People seem to believe Gear is the only domain of life where absolute free will exists (or none)
The point your making alludes me but anyways...

No to the first four and I chose my bank because it offered the highest interest savings account.

Now what is the meaning of this?
Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #954
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maisonvague's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by slick easy ➡️
Come on now. You can't be impressionable enough to beleive the owner of a company when he proclaims his product is the best ever. That is textbook marketing.
Sure, it could be perceived that way. Or it could be perceived as how he honestly feels about his own work.

I don't know about you, but there have been many times I've said to myself "This is my best song ever" and genuinely believed it. The song might actually suck from another's perspective -- including my own, weeks, months or years later, when I say to myself "God, I can't believe I thought that was good." Still, believing in the quality of ones work is essential to any kind of success, real or imagined.

For me, it's easy to get past the "good businessman" marketing bull**** for the very fact that it IS so superficial. It's like a given; to be expected. I'm much more swayed by genuine passion behind someone's work -- and that is SO evident in Dave Smith's work, I couldn't care less what tactics he uses to market his synths.

In the end, it's not about marketing anyway: it's about my own experience with a product. But for that, I need a product. heh
Old 12th February 2013
  #955
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague ➡️
Sure, it could be perceived that way. Or it could be perceived as how he honestly feels about his own work.

I don't know about you, but there have been many times I've said to myself "This is my best song ever" and genuinely believed it. The song might actually suck from another's perspective -- including my own, weeks, months or years later, when I say to myself "God, I can't believe I thought that was good." Still, believing in the quality of ones work is essential to any kind of success, real or imagined.

For me, it's easy to get past the "good businessman" marketing bull**** for the very fact that it IS so superficial. It's like a given; to be expected. I'm much more swayed by genuine passion behind someone's work -- and that is SO evident in Dave Smith's work, I couldn't care less what tactics he uses to market his synths.

In the end, it's not about marketing anyway: it's about my own experience with a product. But for that, I need a product. heh
Well I commend you for not being scarred by the insincerity of our money driven age. I'm sure you will have fruitful experience with the p12. But I remain a skeptic until release. An untrusting yang to your faithful ying.
Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #956
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charles chocula's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague ➡️
When listening to synth demos, rarely does the aesthetic of the player perfectly match my own. It inevitably takes imagination.
not that i'm thinking you're referring to me , but because it applies: i pretty much indicated that theo bloderer's demonstrations (that zahush was so kind to share with us) show the GRP A4 to be a truly worthy synthesizer by stating:

Quote:
Originally Posted by charles chocula ➡️
no doubt, a true beast.
it's that in a semi-saturated market (ahh this mini golden age!!!), anything helps- and it seems that some of GRP's competitors: i.e. Doepfer, Macbeth, synthesizers.com have made a more favorable impression on my, how should we state this, delicate ears . perhaps the GRP doesn't have a harsher character than these, but how would i know? am i going to just buy it when i already have been shown that others in its weight class have exactly the character and specs i'm going for and have that moon dust and pop rocks i like so much to be sprinkled into my mind? that's all. not trying to single out GRP, either... i have the same trouble with some of Analogue Solutions' fare.

in fact, i have zero doubt GRP A4 is an excellent synthesizer. how could it not be. i mean, would you just look at its spec sheet! sex city! still, your point is well taken. i appreciate a demonstration of range, too.

and as this relates to the the prophet 12, i still say dsi could do a better job of marketing and designing presets. i think they did a better job with the mopho keyboard (well... you know, except for that deplorable name ), but all one has to do is look at Elektron to see that there is much work to be done. i mean, i see Elektron and i pretty much HAVE to have anything they make regardless of specs, because they have the golden touch... that certain je ne sais quoi... that rarefied class, the imperium of the Apples and JJ Abrams and Ken Macbeths of the world.

p.s. oh, and i wouldn't say i'm lacking imagination... just ask my psychiatrist!

p.p.s. i am a major dsi fan. i mean, i have prophet 08 pe and tempest and they are stunning. prophet 12 will be stunning. this is simply a marketing treatise.

Last edited by charles chocula; 12th February 2013 at 09:07 PM.. Reason: misattributed GRP A4 demonstration.
Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #957
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maisonvague's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by slick easy ➡️
Well I commend you for not being scarred by the insincerity of our money driven age. I'm sure you will have fruitful experience with the p12. But I remain a skeptic until release. An untrusting yang to your faithful ying.
Oh, I've got a few scars. But it's true, I do try to look past the expected, focus on the positive, and wait for proof in the pudding.

And just for the record, I don't intend to purchase this synth -- at least, not right away. I have too many synths as it is and really need to focus on what I have. But I'm still interested in its development -- and genuinely excited about it for others. I do intend to test it out, though, once it hits the stores, out of curiosity.
Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #958
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by matia ➡️
This video pretty much sold me......call me shallow but i like my synths dark,moody and broody....obviously capable of a lot more but this hit the mark
Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #959
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maisonvague's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by charles chocula ➡️
p.s. oh, and i wouldn't say i'm lacking imagination... just ask my psychiatrist!


My comment wasn't directed at you or anyone in particular. It was intended as a general comment which could apply to anyone -- including myself.

I almost passed up the Vermona Mono Lancet based on the uninspiring demos I heard on YouTube and elsewhere. Fortunately, however, matia's demos on SoundCloud, let's say, eased the strain on my imagination, and I now have what I think is one of the best sounding new monosynths currently on the market.
Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #960
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by messiaen ➡️
Hi Maisonvague

as you seem to be one of few open-minded, honest and dare I say quite humble people on here, what do you make of the new subphatty as a decent mono?
? P12 thread
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